New Animal Time :) [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

brooklynboy521

07-03-12, 09:05 PM

Hey guys, the time has come for me to get a new animal soon. I am looking for a lizard species that will tolerate handling (not excessive amounts) and is not too hard to care for. I have an empty 4x2x4 (LxWxH) enclosure that is free. I have experience with just about anything from Leopard geckos to blue tree monitors. I am open to ANY suggestions.

alessia55

07-03-12, 09:53 PM

If you have experience with leopard geckos and blue tree monitors, you should know more or less what you'd like... Do you want something small? medium? large? on a veggie diet? insects? mice? terrestrial? arboreal? From the kinds of lizards you've worked with, which have you enjoyed the most?

BarelyBreathing

07-03-12, 10:36 PM

Some suggestions for your enclosure size- a small group of leopard geckos, a bearded dragon, a blue tongue skink, a chameleon (but they don't handle well), a mountain horned dragon, a leachianus gecko, a halmahera gecko....

GarterPython

07-03-12, 11:05 PM

No chameleon. They need a screen cage. The only chameleon that can be kept in a glass aquarium is a Pygmy Chameleon and don't give out false information about handling chameleons, please! I know the main thing people say when you talk about chameleons is that they don't handle well (that is not true) if you get it as a baby and handle it it will grow up getting handled and will not get stressed out. Also I love Blue Tougne Skinks!

LISA127

07-04-12, 05:28 AM

The blue tongued skink. There is no better lizard if you're looking for a medium to larger lizard. I've had mine for 12.5 years now. He's never had a health problem to speak of....not even a minor one. And I have to say he is the easiest reptile I've ever cared for. Easy to feed too.

Jay

07-04-12, 05:55 AM

Handaling = stress.

brooklynboy521

07-04-12, 07:03 AM

Hey the reason I wasn't more specific is because I have no clue. The only geckos I would consider are leachieanus or a crested colony. I want something that can live it's entire life or a good part of it in there. I would like it to be semi arboreal to arboreal because I do not want to waste the space on a terrestrial lizard. I was thinking about an ackies or Kimberly rock monitor. Money is not really an issue. Out of all the animals I have worked with my favorite is prehensile tail skinks, leachieanus (my friend has both) and water dragons.

LISA127

07-04-12, 07:30 AM

If money is not an issue, why not go with prehensile tail skinks then? I had one many many years ago, when they were not expensive yet. Great lizards. Or you could go with a small colony of pink tongued skinks.

StudentoReptile

07-04-12, 07:33 AM

Uromastyx or blue-tongued skinks

UwabamiReptiles

07-04-12, 07:59 AM

I was originally thinking uro. What about a water dragon or sailfin dragon? Maybe not the best for handling but most reptiles that are arboreal don't like a whole bunch of handling.

LISA127

07-04-12, 08:00 AM

I still say if you're looking for something that can tolerate handling better than others, the blue tongued skink is the way to go.

brooklynboy521

07-04-12, 08:02 AM

Also forgot to mention I have a wide variety of food around me so I don't really care what it eats. I love to have a tame tokay but that's not going to happen lol.

brooklynboy521

07-04-12, 08:04 AM

I am fine with limited handling. I still own blue trees that hate being handled so I am used to it. I was considering a sailfin or water Dragon but would most likely have to build a bigger enclosure for the adults correct? And it isnt a glass tank btw it is melamine.

brooklynboy521

07-04-12, 08:06 AM

And blue tongue skinks seem so unporportional to me. There is something about them that has kept me from them.

Pareeeee

07-04-12, 08:09 AM

I would definitely not put Crested Geckos together in the same tank. I would put dividers in to keep them separate (this is what my friend has done, because she learned the hard way. The one attacked the other, its tail got infected and finally fell off. The infection permanently stunted his growth)

All that being said, Cresties are GREAT lizards. They are quite tolerant. I conditioned my little guy to being handled while he was young, got him used to me *gently* touching his feet & head as well. Now he doesn't seem to care what I do. He's as tame as can be. Crested Geckos are one of the cheapest and easiest lizards to own. They don't need heat lamps (they actually get stressed if the temperature is anywhere over 85, and cannot tolerate it for long. They can die if the temp stays over 90F). Just mist down their cages at night, and only need to be fed CGD (Crested Gecko Diet) which makes it so easy. You don't have to fuss with dusting crickets, etc...this stuff has everything they need. I buy Repashy's online. It's the best IMO. Just keep the bag in the fridge and it lasts a LONG time. This I cannot stress enough: please do not attempt to feed anything other than CGD. Crested Geckos have specific dietary requirements which are difficult to duplicate without risking the health of your lizard. Do not listen to pet stores, since they will tell you to feed crickets and baby food. Baby food is not good for them and can be harmful.

The second lizard I would recommend is famous for being a beginner lizard: the Bearded Dragon. Beardies all have unique little personalitie and can be quite comical. Mine would glare at me if I did anything she didn't like. It was hilarious. Bearded dragons are omnivores, and do well on a mixture of crickets, raw collard greens, squash & carrots. Mine liked to eat the Beared Dragon dry food which made things easier as well. Being a diurnal lizard native to the Australian desert, they require dry conditions, high temps and correct UV lighting. VERY important: dust all crickets in Calcium+Vit. D powder. These lizards require it and if they do not receive proper diet and supplements, will suffer from Metabolic bone disease.

This is what can happen if proper diet, lighting and supplements are not provided:
MBD http://specialgeckos.webs.com/DSC_0195_2796.jpg
...this picture makes me :(

Here are some caresheets:

Bearded Dragon: Caresheet 1 (http://www.sunshinedragons.com/caresheet.htm), Carsheet 2 (http://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/caresheet/?page=1)

Crested Gecko: Caresheet 1 (PDF) (http://www.rhacscanada.ca/Forum/Contest/GeneralCare3.pdf) Caresheet 2 (http://www.geckosintails.com/crested-gecko-caresheet.html)

Hope I was helpful!

brooklynboy521

07-04-12, 08:35 AM

What about desert iguanas? Right now I am looking at sailfins, water dragons, frillies, prehensile tail slink, leachieanus, ackies, or Kimberly rock monitor. Beardrd Dragons I have had in the past and am not too fond of.

StudentoReptile

07-04-12, 09:06 AM

Desert iguanas are a great choice as well.

Frillies and sailfins, in my opinion, are too highstrung and flighty to be handled regularly. Prehensile-tail skinks are cool, but just darn rare and expensive to find.

GarterPython

07-04-12, 10:51 AM

It sounds like your friend just had bad luck Pareeee. If you keep one male and a couple of females they should be fine also you need a big enough cage so there is a different feeding source for each one. Crested's can live fine in groups as long as you follow these main guide lines.

Edit: They should also all be around the same size and if they have babies the babies should be removed.

BarelyBreathing

07-04-12, 11:28 AM

Sailfins and water dragons require an enclosure of 6x3x4.

GarterPython, where are you getting your information? Chameleons do not do well with stress at all, and should not be handled regularly at all. They can also live in glass enclosures with some major modifications including air flow, live plants, and proper precautions to avoid reflection.

brooklynboy521

07-04-12, 12:00 PM

If I have to build a larger enclosure down the line I may do that, however I can also try to modify the one I have now. Chameleons are way too delicate for me. They are beautiful but are just not for me.

Jay

07-04-12, 12:08 PM

GarterPython

07-04-12, 01:23 PM

I have been a member on the Chameleon Forum for a while and a lot of them say that if you get them as babies amd handle them they will do fine with handling when they are older. And also they do best in screen enclosures. Not saying that they can't be in glass enclosures but if you have a screen it is better because there is more air flow. I did a lot of research on them and there is way too much stuff saying the wrong information. Yes they can get stressed easily but with daily handling (just like with other lizards) they are fine.

brooklynboy521

07-04-12, 09:05 PM

snake man12

07-04-12, 09:28 PM

Desert Iguanas are really cool my friend lets me handle him some times

LISA127

07-05-12, 05:47 AM

Guy's I am not getting a chameleon lol. I can't and won't risk one. My friend has them and he says they are so delicate and vulnerable to changes in their environment. I am thinking more towards a kimberly rock monitor, ackies monitor, water dragon, or desert iguana.

I've never had an interest in chameleons either. I know others like them, but they have never done anything for me. with all that height, the water dragon would probably enjoy that cage. :)

brooklynboy521

07-05-12, 08:26 AM

I've never had an interest in chameleons either. I know others like them, but they have never done anything for me. with all that height, the water dragon would probably enjoy that cage. :)

I know, I really want to get an aussie water dragon but they are so hard to find here, even at the expos. The chinese one's don't interest me as much.

StudentoReptile

07-05-12, 08:28 AM

I know, I really want to get an aussie water dragon but they are so hard to find here, even at the expos. The chinese one's don't interest me as much.

Man, we had a pair at our LPS forever. Couldn't get rid of those things. Shoulda called you up.

brooklynboy521

07-05-12, 12:18 PM

Lol, yea. I am currently weighing my options. But Aussies are still almost at top if my list.

DragonsEye

07-05-12, 12:44 PM

Some nice suggestions.

As far as your wanting an arboreal or semi because you do not want to "waste all that space", that should not be a reason to rule out terrestrials. If you make a series of stepped ledges or broad raised structures in the enclosure, many terrestrials will make use of that "expanded" floor space. My leo, for example, was always too happy to climb all over logs or even the resin roman colosseum I placed in her enclosure.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/obeah/critters/PeanutatCol2sm.jpg

Wildside

07-05-12, 12:53 PM

4 x 2 x 4 Would house a Chinese Water Dragon nicely. They are fun to handle, fun to feed, fun to watch and inexpensive to buy. I can help you more if these spark your interest.

BarelyBreathing

07-05-12, 07:14 PM

4 x 2 x 4 Would house a Chinese Water Dragon nicely. They are fun to handle, fun to feed, fun to watch and inexpensive to buy. I can help you more if these spark your interest.

No it wouldn't. The minimum enclosure size for a Chinese water dragon is 6x3x4.

Wildside

07-05-12, 08:45 PM

No it wouldn't. The minimum enclosure size for a Chinese water dragon is 6x3x4.

You really think a foot n' a half lizard needs a minimum of 6 feet in length?

BarelyBreathing

07-05-12, 09:56 PM

Tricia's Chinese Water Dragon, Reptile and Amphibian Care Page (Water Dragon care, Reptile care, Amphibian care) (http://www.triciaswaterdragon.com)

Do some research. :)

brooklynboy521

07-05-12, 11:40 PM

Wildside

07-06-12, 07:58 AM

Tricia's Chinese Water Dragon, Reptile and Amphibian Care Page (Water Dragon care, Reptile care, Amphibian care) (http://www.triciaswaterdragon.com)

Do some research. :)

Thanks but I breed them :D

Wildside

07-06-12, 08:00 AM

First of all I already have leopard geckos. And I think I am going to try and get my hands on some Kimberly Rock Monitors or ackies. I still haven't ruled out getting an aussie water dragon or desert iguana. I just don't think so yet.

Aussies are more difficult to care for. Not trying to discourage you or anything I'm just saying. I <3 my Chinese Water Dragons.

BarelyBreathing

07-06-12, 08:37 AM

Wow, who would buy from a breeder who keeps their animals in inhumanely small enclosures?

Wildside

07-06-12, 08:56 AM

Wow, who would buy from a breeder who keeps their animals in inhumanely small enclosures?

What's inhumane about keeping a lizard, the bulk of which is 1.5 feet followed by another 1/1.5 feet of tail, for a whopping equivalent of 3 ft., in an enclosure that has an area of around 30 sq. ft?

MoreliAddict

07-06-12, 09:07 AM

What's inhumane about keeping a lizard, the bulk of which is 1.5 feet followed by another 1/1.5 feet of tail, for a whopping equivalent of 3 ft., in an enclosure that has an area of around 30 sq. ft?
4 X 2 = 8 sq ft, not 30...

Wildside

07-06-12, 09:09 AM

Isn't the enclosure in the OP 4 ft. tall x 4 ft. wide x 2 ft. deep?

MoreliAddict

07-06-12, 09:12 AM

4 x 2 x 4 Would house a Chinese Water Dragon nicely.
^ Thought that implied 4L, 2W, 4H...

Wildside

07-06-12, 09:44 AM

I'm going to do a little visual aid for those who are getting confused (because now I'm confused)

The dimensions of a standard 55 gallon aquarium are 48"L x 12.5"W x 20"H. Which would be 4 ft. across the front, a hair over 1 ft. on the side, and almost but not quite 2 ft. tall.

This is smaller than any enclosure questioned here.

MoreliAddict

07-06-12, 09:49 AM

Isn't the enclosure in the OP 4 ft. tall x 4 ft. wide x 2 ft. deep?
^^and this would be 8 sq ft of floor space, not the 30 you had claimed.

Wildside

07-06-12, 09:59 AM

^^and this would be 8 sq ft of floor space, not the 30 you had claimed.

I didn't say anything about floor space. I said "area (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_definition_for_area_in_math)" which equals the inside space of a shape or boundary.

MoreliAddict

07-06-12, 10:07 AM

I didn't say anything about floor space. I said "area (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_definition_for_area_in_math)" which equals the inside space of a shape or boundary.
You said square feet, not cubic feet. http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

Wildside

07-06-12, 10:16 AM

You said square feet, not cubic feet. http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

I'll admit that... Wouldn't it have been fair though, to question me on which specific unit I was trying to convey after seeing my estimated answer was closer to the measurement in cubic feet (which is actually 32)?

I'm willing to play it your way though, Moreli, by going back to the point. You can still fit a 3 ft. lizard in 8 ft. of floor space, right?

MoreliAddict

07-06-12, 10:24 AM

I'll admit that... Wouldn't it have been fair though, to question me on which specific unit I was trying to convey after seeing my estimated answer was closer to the measurement in cubic feet (which is actually 32)?

I'm willing to play it your way though, Moreli, by going back to the point. You can still fit a 3 ft. lizard in 8 ft. of floor space, right?
I know nothing about lizards or how much space they need to be comfortable. :cool:

BarelyBreathing

07-06-12, 10:31 AM

StudentoReptile

07-06-12, 11:06 AM

Lankyrob

07-06-12, 12:04 PM

THere is also a major difference in my mind between recognised minimums and the minimum size that I would house an animal in :)

BarelyBreathing

07-06-12, 12:08 PM

THere is also a major difference in my mind between recognised minimums and the minimum size that I would house an animal in :)

I'm confused, Rob. Can you clarify?

Lankyrob

07-06-12, 12:08 PM

Personally i like to give my animals the largest amount of space that i can give them, rather than just meeting a minimum standard :)

Wildside

07-06-12, 12:09 PM

The fact of the matter is that the standard recognized minimum housing size for these animals is 6x3x4. You call yourself a breeder, that doesn't mean you're correct. I know a ball python breeder who keeps adults in 10 gallon fish tanks. That doesn't mean it's correct.

That's the standard according to "Tricia's Water Dragons", Which means your argument, nor your evidence proves me incorrect. Who made her the "say all, end all" for CWD Husbandry? BTW I never stated that was the size of the enclosure that my CWD's are kept in. I merely made a suggestion to the OP about an animal he might consider for his 180 gal. tall enclosure.

BarelyBreathing

07-06-12, 12:41 PM

Personally i like to give my animals the largest amount of space that i can give them, rather than just meeting a minimum standard :)

Okay, thanks. That's what I thought you meant, but I just wanted clarification.

That's the standard according to "Tricia's Water Dragons", Which means your argument, nor your evidence proves me incorrect. Who made her the "say all, end all" for CWD Husbandry? BTW I never stated that was the size of the enclosure that my CWD's are kept in. I merely made a suggestion to the OP about an animal he might consider for his 180 gal. tall enclosure.

A lot of vets and other authorities on the species suggest larger, actually. Something along the lines of 6x2x6. :)

Wildside

07-06-12, 12:45 PM

Okay, thanks. That's what I thought you meant, but I just wanted clarification.

A lot of vets and other authorities on the species suggest larger, actually. Something along the lines of 6x2x6. :)

I would like to see the literature that suggests this.

StudentoReptile

07-06-12, 01:01 PM

I would like to see the literature that suggests this.

I don't know what the precise dimensions "suggested by experts" say, but from my experience, I concur that for water dragons, as well as other medium-large-sized agamids and iguanids, the larger the enclosure is, the better. These are active lizards that move around a lot. Yes, their body size is only 12-16" but tail and all, they are a reasonably-sized animal that requires a lot of space for turning around, as well as jumping, climbing, etc.

Personally, I feel that an enclosure 6' x 3' x 4' is more ideal than one 4 x 2 x 4. Given that an adult CWD is 3 ft long (perhaps longer), 4 feet is simply not long enough.

I don't have a "peer-reviewed article" that was submitted to a scientific journal, or a panel of qualified veterinarians to back my statements. It is merely my opinion based on my own experiences with these animals. I don't want to get caught up in what is the "suggested" caging dimensions for an adult water dragon, because Oh mon dieu, what if someone makes their cage 2 inches too short?! (what a horrible lizard keeper they shall be!!!:eek:)...I just don't feel that 4 feet is long enough.

I think its kinda moot though...didn't the OP say he wasn't really interested in water dragons anyway? Or was that someone else?

Wildside

07-06-12, 01:17 PM

StudentoReptile

07-06-12, 01:30 PM

Fact of the matter is a 4 x 2 x 4 enclosure is the exact size of a 180 gal. tall aquarium, which would provide an adequate amount of space for one CWD to play and therefore is not inhumane as previously suggested.

Certainly not inhumane...better than what most keepers would offer a lizard that size. However, if it were me, I would likely only use it for juvenile CWDs, not adults.

A very unlikely, but always plausible scenario...if the lizard was spooked, would it have enough space to turn, run (or jump) and hide without ramming snout first into the enclosure wall behind it?

A lot would depend on what material(s) the enclosure was constructed from, what other pets were in the house, and/or if they had access to the room the water dragon was kept in, etc.

DragonsEye

07-06-12, 03:35 PM

I would agree that "inhumane" is too strong a word. However, for an active adult animal of that size, a larger tank should be provided.

red ink

07-12-12, 07:19 AM

So yeah.... anyway Brooklynboy, set up that space properly with multiple basking spots, plenty of things to climb on and a deep substrate and you have yourself a V. acanthurus wonderland. If you maximise the space properly with plenty of branches you can house a pair of them in that size enclosure.

beardeds4life

07-14-12, 12:21 PM

First I would like to say that 4x2x4 might be the MINIMUM but that doesnt mean the animal will be happy in it. I agree with barely breathing. Personally I would NOT buy from a breeder who keeps adult cwd in a 4x2x2 enclosure.

Anyway you could put a board in the middle thus making 2 4x2x2 enclosures.