Rattlesnake die upon relocation(?)

[RandyRhoads]

A biologist at BLM said that if a rattlesnake is taken more than a mile from it's home it will die. Has anyone ever heard this, and can you elaborate on it. It doesn't make sense to me how that would happen. If it's true then why would all these rattlesnake removal companies even relocate them if they were just going to die..?

I also heard from someone at the same place that they can sense humans when you get within 40 ft of them. Is this an accurate number? (assumption?) or more random statements from them?

[Brently]

Well I am no scientist but both those thoughts sound absolutely ludacrous to me. Rattlesnakes don't have a marked out territory. They roam in search of food and water just like other animals. Relocation should in my mind have no effect so long as the new area is suitable.

[infernalis]

It has been said more than once that most snakes relocated too far from where they were collected fail to thrive.

I think it has something to do with them knowing where the food is, brumation sites, and breeding sites.

Now from my own observations, the local garter snakes behind my house are usually located at right about the same place each year at about the same time, apparently the have predetermined movement patterns, and relocation throws them off.

[RandyRhoads]

Interesting. Thanks Wayne. Someone also told me they don't go more than aroudn 140 ft from there den. In that case tomorrow i'll have to go back to where I found that mohave rattlesnake shed.

[RandyRhoads]

Well I am no scientist but both those thoughts sound absolutely ludacrous to me..
Hey, that's your states BLM office at work.:yes:

[Kingsnakechris]

I'm almost positive rattlesnakes can be re located more than a mile away, I've taken them from the desert to my house (when I was ALOT younger,braver and dumber) and that was a few miles away, as far as them being able to sense us 40 ft away, that could be very true. I'm out herping all the time and quite often I can hear a rattle start up easily 30-40 ft away (guesstimate), they most def. know your there LONG before you know their there...

[Kingsnakechris]

Thinking about it, 40 ft may be pushing it, but they can pick you up from a fairly long way away.

[marvelfreak]

If this was true there would be no Rattlesnakes in captivity as they would all die before they could ever reproduce.

[Brently]

If this was true there would be no Rattlesnakes in captivity as they would all die before they could ever reproduce.

thank you. I was about to make that point. also as far as the sensing from 40ft thing is concerned, take into consideration the perspective and senses of the snake. looking up at a human from the ground with a clear path to see 40ft would still be pushing it based on their vision. However with their sense of smell and the proper wind direction 40ft is easily believable for them to be aware of our presence.

[infernalis]

If this was true there would be no Rattlesnakes in captivity as they would all die before they could ever reproduce.

In captivity, we provide for their needs, it's not the same as in the wild, not even close.

[marvelfreak]

In captivity, we provide for their needs, it's not the same as in the wild, not even close.
Very true. My point is when they were taking from the wild if this was true they would have die a mile from their dens. Unless the first pairs taking were kept in that mile area and they breed successfully for them. The fact that we have them in captivated and they thrive is proof there's no real logic behind someone saying "they die if taken a mile from their home".

[infernalis]

The fact that we have them in captivated and they thrive is proof there's no real logic behind someone saying "they die if taken a mile from their home".

This is very true, it's when they are captured and then released miles away that the problems arise.

[marvelfreak]

This is very true, it's when they are captured and then released miles away that the problems arise.
This is why anytime something is captured it should always be released as close as possible to were it was found. People who don't do this are just being irresponsible to the animal and their needs.

[Roadtrash]

I don't know if they can detect humans at 40 feet but with our size and the vibrations that we put into the ground they know something large is coming. As for the removal of a rattlesnake from its home area, I've heard this before but not from a person who was an expert in the field. I've never seen any evidence of it myself but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[MDT]

I would think there would be some telemetry data out there somewhere that could refute this. (or prove it)......methinks the BLM dude may be misguided.

[Roadtrash]

After making the post I made above I went to several sites online and found that there have been several studies done on this issue and most of them do indeed come to the conclusion that relocation does cause a lot of deaths to the snakes involved. If a "den", or related group of snakes is moved there seems to be less of a problem.

[infernalis]

It has to do with scent, a lot of people do not know this, but a study was done that proves that a snake will follow the same exact course in a maze that was scented with pheromones.

[RandyRhoads]

So if one was to breed and release threatened species, such as Crotalus willardi obscurus, and release them in a suitable area, would most of them die? Or would they have a good chance if there was a bigger number of siblings released at the same time in the same place?

[SSSSnakes]

I know that Timber Rattlesnakes use the same dens their entire life. The gravid female normally do not leave the den location and the rest of the snake only travel 2 to 3 miles at most and return to their den. If they are relocated to far from their den, they will not make it through the winter. I live in NY and if I have to relocate a Timber Rattlesnake, as per the DEC, I have to release it close to it's den. Timber Rattlesnakes are on a Threatened status in NY, so the DEC knows where most of the dens are.

[RandyRhoads]

Close to it's den, or a den of others? If you were relocating it away from somewhere where it could be a problem (as with most removal services) wouldn't it's den be close enough for it to come back and cause the problem again?

[infernalis]

I know that Timber Rattlesnakes use the same dens their entire life. The gravid female normally do not leave the den location and the rest of the snake only travel 2 to 3 miles at most and return to their den. If they are relocated to far from their den, they will not make it through the winter. I live in NY and if I have to relocate a Timber Rattlesnake, as per the DEC, I have to release it close to it's den. Timber Rattlesnakes are on a Threatened status in NY, so the DEC knows where most of the dens are.


The NYS D.O.T. closed down a highway rest area to protect the rattlesnakes basking on the asphalt a few years ago.

They installed snake netting around the area to keep the animals away from the road.

Our state takes protecting these snakes very seriously, you won't see any "roundups" in new York.

[SSSSnakes]

Close to it's den, or a den of others? If you were relocating it away from somewhere where it could be a problem (as with most removal services) wouldn't it's den be close enough for it to come back and cause the problem again?

You see, if you see one Timber in your yard, then there maybe more at some point. They are only passing through. Just because you remove one snake, doesn't mean you will not see other snakes at some point. If you live within the 2 to 3 miles of their den you will have Timbers in your yard at some point. They are just passing through and have no intentions of staying there. That is why if you relocate the snake back to it's den or take it out of the wild completely, it is not going to solve the problem of a Rattlesnake in your yard. There are many more Rattlers using the same den, that may choose to wander into your yard. If you leave them alone, withion a day or two, they will normally be gone.

[RandyRhoads]

You see, if you see one Timber in your yard, then there maybe more at some point. They are only passing through. Just because you remove one snake, doesn't mean you will not see other snakes at some point. If you live within the 2 to 3 miles of their den you will have Timbers in your yard at some point. They are just passing through and have no intentions of staying there. That is why if you relocate the snake back to it's den or take it out of the wild completely, it is not going to solve the problem of a Rattlesnake in your yard. There are many more Rattlers using the same den, that may choose to wander into your yard. If you leave them alone, withion a day or two, they will normally be gone.

So how do you (and most) relocate them? Where do you find the dens, and is it most likely a different den, not their "home" den?

[SSSSnakes]

So how do you (and most) relocate them? Where do you find the dens, and is it most likely a different den, not their "home" den?

I get my info on their dens from the DEC. You have to relocate them to their den. You are not really getting rid of the snake problem, only temporarily solving it. Because of their protected status, the welfare of the snake is the most important issue. If you have a big problem with them, snake fencing can be used to help keep them off your property and also keeping your property debris free with the grass cut low and no wood piles will make an undesirable area for them. Even West Point Military Academy has to deal with the Timbers. The only time the DEC really allows you to relocate them is if there is a danger to the snake or public safety. If you relocate or mess with a rattlesnake without the DEC permission, it is considered harassing wildlife.

[millertime89]

bump since I found a study directly relating to this.
Great read, especially to find out that it was successful, which seldom happens.
http://kufs.ku.edu/media/kufs/people...l-TRs12-09.pdf