breeding plans..

[DeesBalls]

so ive been up for 3 hrs looking over what snakes i have, what i need, and what im going to go for... just wanted to throw this over to you guys and see what you all think...

Male Pastave will be bred to:
f-pastel
fcinny
f-lesser/mojo (need to get one)

male pastel will be bred to:
f-pastel ( i have 2)
f-spider
f- normal

Male cinny will be bred to
f-cinny (need to buy another one)
f-normal


my 1.1 het pieds/albino/ and 66% het toffes will only breed with the het of other sex.... ( pied to pied, albino to albino, ect...)

does this sound like a good start? or what do you guys think/.

[Valvaren]

After seeing what could come of breeding two cinnys together I would never ever do it.

[lady_bug87]

After seeing what could come of breeding two cinnys together I would never ever do it.

would you please explain that? I am horrible with genetics...

[Valvaren]

Just cinnys are known to cause deformities when bred together, I never really knew anything besides that as there are lots of cases of deformities when trying to make certain supers (super cinnies in this case). Just a breeder on another forum who was unaware of the potential risk bred two together and out of six eggs, two were culled right away (supers) another super has a kink (not sure how bad), there was a normal which was fine and a possible twilight who iirc was fine and then another baby still in the egg who had a bulged eye.

The two that were culled had major kinks and face deformities.

Idk he swore if he knew he wouldn't have bred them and he never would again. I just personally after seeing what could come I would never even risk it.

EDIT : The thread I am referring two has been linking on the reptile report, second page if you wish to check it out.

[DeesBalls]

Just cinnys are known to cause deformities when bred together, I never really knew anything besides that as there are lots of cases of deformities when trying to make certain supers (super cinnies in this case). Just a breeder on another forum who was unaware of the potential risk bred two together and out of six eggs, two were culled right away (supers) another super has a kink (not sure how bad), there was a normal which was fine and a possible twilight who iirc was fine and then another baby still in the egg who had a bulged eye.

The two that were culled had major kinks and face deformities.

Idk he swore if he knew he wouldn't have bred them and he never would again. I just personally after seeing what could come I would never even risk it.

EDIT : The thread I am referring two has been linking on the reptile report, second page if you wish to check it out.

i never heard of cinnys causing anything, i knew about spiders, but after a little reading, it seems like that will come out when you breed spider back into something with spider.. (spider x spider for example) and carmels have the kink... never heard of the cinny though, can you link that to me here, or in PM please?

other than the cinny thing, what else you suggest?

[Valvaren]

Super Cinnamons – The Reason Why Not | The Reptile Report (http://thereptilereport.com/super-cinnamons-the-reason-why-not/)

[DeesBalls]

thanks ! ...

okay, after reading taht and looking at the pics. not sure if i will do a cinny x cinny. i LOVE super cinnys, but i dont want to risk that.... same reason i am not going to breed my spider girl that much, (prolly just 1 time to get some different morphs, then she will be retired into the "pets". )


thanks for sharing, and thanks for letting me know.

[Aaron_S]

i never heard of cinnys causing anything, i knew about spiders, but after a little reading, it seems like that will come out when you breed spider back into something with spider.. (spider x spider for example) and carmels have the kink... never heard of the cinny though, can you link that to me here, or in PM please?

other than the cinny thing, what else you suggest?

What does spider x spider do?


So the known mutations that generally have issues:

Spiders - Wobble
Caramels - Kinks
Powerball - Wobble
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel - Kinking, duckbilling
Pearl - Lethal
Desert females - don't reproduce

[DeesBalls]

What does spider x spider do?


So the known mutations that generally have issues:

Spiders - Wobble
Caramels - Kinks
Powerball - Wobble
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel - Kinking, duckbilling
Pearl - Lethal
Desert females - don't reproduce

from what i read is....

if you breed a spider back into a spider gene, the risks are greater of the wobble coming out...

say spider x spinner this would make the chance of wobble greater than say breeding a spider to a pastel...

like i said Aaron, this is just somthing i read, i have no idea about it, could be complete crap, could be spot on, i dont know..


oh yea, thanks for listing the mutation for me.

[Aaron_S]

Disregard what you've read.

I have a few spider crosses in my collection and have seen a few dozen more. The parents have nothing to do with the amount of wobble in the offspring. Some have a wicked wobble or some don't have much. It does not increase if both parents are spider or have spider in the combo.


Also to really answer your original question, just buy what you like. Find a mutation you really like and either buy it or buy the ingredients to make it if you're in it just for fun.

[DeesBalls]

Disregard what you've read.

I have a few spider crosses in my collection and have seen a few dozen more. The parents have nothing to do with the amount of wobble in the offspring. Some have a wicked wobble or some don't have much. It does not increase if both parents are spider or have spider in the combo.


Also to really answer your original question, just buy what you like. Find a mutation you really like and either buy it or buy the ingredients to make it if you're in it just for fun.

thanks aaron, ill disregard it.. and as for the ingredients, i guess i really want BEL maybe, or even super pastel, any things, its all for fun/hobby!

[Aaron_S]

thanks aaron, ill disregard it.. and as for the ingredients, i guess i really want BEL maybe, or even super pastel, any things, its all for fun/hobby!

Well if you want those then you're on the right track. Pastel to pastel will garner your super pastel and a lesser x lesser or mojave will do the same. You could also do mojave x mojave.

[Norm66]

Do mojave x mojave supers look any different from lesser x lesser supers? What about mojave x lesser supers? That would be a cool snake to have because you'd get all one or the other out of it. Right?

[Aaron_S]

mojave BEL's have a "dirty" look to them on their head. The purply colour comes through.

Lesser BEL's are all white and I'm unsure of the eye colour if it's Black or Blue.

Lesser x Mojave BEL's are all white and I'm unsure of the eye colour as well. Someone may come post links to worldofballpythons or you can go there to check them out too :)

[Norm66]

Thanks Aaron. I can't get to wobp from work, our network is too slow. Plus I only get a couple minutes here & there to check in lately. I'll check it out when I get home.

[DeesBalls]

mojave BEL's have a "dirty" look to them on their head. The purply colour comes through.

Lesser BEL's are all white and I'm unsure of the eye colour if it's Black or Blue.

Lesser x Mojave BEL's are all white and I'm unsure of the eye colour as well. Someone may come post links to worldofballpythons or you can go there to check them out too :)

i have already... mine will be pastave x lesser so we will see, if i even get any. lol.

[DeesBalls]

i looked at wobp and they all are BEL. all look the general same to me.. i started a new thread about them, hoping to draw in some more people to help me with this.

[mykee]

Lesser X lesser, mojave X lesser and mojave X mojave all have blue eyes. I have produced all three and the mojave X lesser IMO is the whitest and cleanest of the trio.

As well, as Aaron touched on, spider X spider does not worsen the wobble of the gene. I've bred spider crosses X spider crosses and have produced heavy wobbles and very mild wobbles. It's on a snake by snake basis.

[Gregg M]

Mojave X Mocha also makes very clean looking white snakes with blue eyes.

[DeesBalls]

Lesser X lesser, mojave X lesser and mojave X mojave all have blue eyes. I have produced all three and the mojave X lesser IMO is the whitest and cleanest of the trio.

As well, as Aaron touched on, spider X spider does not worsen the wobble of the gene. I've bred spider crosses X spider crosses and have produced heavy wobbles and very mild wobbles. It's on a snake by snake basis.

thank yo mykee, and everyone else who helped out. i just wasnt sure and wanted to be 100 percent sure what i was going to be doing before i did it....

as for the spider x spider thing, again, something i read...:) thanks.

[lady_bug87]

Lesser X lesser, mojave X lesser and mojave X mojave all have blue eyes. I have produced all three and the mojave X lesser IMO is the whitest and cleanest of the trio.

As well, as Aaron touched on, spider X spider does not worsen the wobble of the gene. I've bred spider crosses X spider crosses and have produced heavy wobbles and very mild wobbles. It's on a snake by snake basis.

Just a question out of sheer curiosity, when you have a spider hatchling with a heavy wobble do you cull it? Or does it depend on how the wobble affects eating and such?

[Aaron_S]

heavy wobble isn't the same as a deformed face or sever kink that hampers it's way of living.

If the animal couldn't eat at all or poop normally then I'd consider it. I know it was directed at Mykee but I figured I'd answer.

[Snakefood]

just found a beaut of a Mojave female (2012, 1 mo old) for $350, put downpayment to hold her, can't wait to pay her off and bring her home!! I know it's years before I can put together any projects with her, but this conversation interests me as I really would like to produce some blue eyed lucy's!!

[DeesBalls]

At first I though you were telling me about her, lol I was going to jump all over that!!!

Bel are starting to be my favorite, out side of albinos:)

[Snakefood]

Albino's are awesome, I want to get a male. I know a breeder who is waiting on a clutch of albino's to hatch, may grab one of them if I can talk down his price.

[Aaron_S]

Albino's are awesome, I want to get a male. I know a breeder who is waiting on a clutch of albino's to hatch, may grab one of them if I can talk down his price.

What's his current price?

We're cheaper out here :P

[Snakefood]

he's asking $400, don't know what I'll be able to talk him down to.

What can you get me a male for, shipping included??

[DeesBalls]

I've been setting them for around $350 shipped for makes, and like $450 our so for females and this I'd for babies. That's what's on kingsnake.com.

[Aaron_S]

Yeah but up here we have our own market too. Similar to yours though!

[DeesBalls]

Yeah but up here we have our own market too. Similar to yours though!

Didn't realize you were up in Canada, my bad.

[lady_bug87]

heavy wobble isn't the same as a deformed face or sever kink that hampers it's way of living.

If the animal couldn't eat at all or poop normally then I'd consider it. I know it was directed at Mykee but I figured I'd answer.

Lol that's fine.

The answer was sort of what I expected. (I'm not being sarcastic) I figured as long as it could eat, poop, and breed it would be ok. Then again I'm sure there are wobbles that completely hinder the eating process.. so would THEY be culled? or just assistance fed forever?

[Aaron_S]

Lol that's fine.

The answer was sort of what I expected. (I'm not being sarcastic) I figured as long as it could eat, poop, and breed it would be ok. Then again I'm sure there are wobbles that completely hinder the eating process.. so would THEY be culled? or just assistance fed forever?

I have yet to see that wobble.

I have a snake here who wobbles more than my others and it eats fine. Seems to figure it out pretty well.