new and need ball python & bao info

[sawtoothscream]

Hi im new to this site and joined because I want to by a ball python or boa. Just want to get all the info I need so if I actually go through with it im all set up and can care for the animal good. What size tank should I go with ( I have a decent sized glass tank that i think could work for a little) also if a tub or glass tank better? heard the plastic tubs a better but IDK. also whats all the other things i need for the snake (lights, hides, temp gadge ect...) basically everything I need to know about keeping this snakes happy and alive.

also which is a better snake to own? is there much of a differnce? thanks

[infernalis]

sSnakeSs.com - Rules (http://www.ssnakess.com/index.php?page=rules)

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[StudentoReptile]

If you are new to snakes, I would suggest a ball python over the boa (I'm assuming you're referring to red-tails, no?). Common red-tailed boas are cool and much more interestin captives in my opinion, but they do grow larger, in excess of 8 feet or more, and females get larger still.

However, there are a lot more options than just ball pythons and common boas. There's rosy boas, sand boas, corn snakes, king snakes, children's python, spotted pythons, etc.
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Personally, I would set-up a tub as opposed to a glass tank. Many herps species seem to fare fine in glass aquaria, but in my experience, baby ball pythons do not. In a nutshell, the typical glass tank set-up with a open-screen-mesh top is not conducive for keeping heat and humidity inside. Even in a small 10-gallon tank, for a baby snake that will likely spend 90% of its time curled up inside its cave on the cage bottom, too much heat and moist air is lost out the open top.

I'm sure the ball python experts will pop up soon enough and give you details on temps, cage furnishings, best substrates, etc....but that's my $.02.

[sawtoothscream]

thanks, ill have to keep reseasrching what I want.

[alessia55]

Welcome to the forum! Do you have any previous experience with snakes?
In my signature you'll find my website about ball pythons. Maybe it'll give you some ideas.

The word "boa" is very vague. There are sand boas, red tail boas, dumeril boas, ground boas, rainbow boas, rosy boas, tree boas......... you'll have to be more specific about what you're looking for :)

It helps if you tell us...
what size would you like your snake to be?
what size of prey do you feel comfortable feeding to your snake? rats? rabbits?
what previous experience with snakes do you have?
how much space do you have for a snake?

You should also consider colubrids... corn snakes and king snakes are also great for beginners. :)

[sawtoothscream]

I dont want somthing that will be an absolute monster, would have no issues feeding it rats (rabbits will not happen, my parents would kill me lol), space idk, no experience with snakes other then catching garders.

[alessia55]

I dont want somthing that will be an absolute monster, would have no issues feeding it rats (rabbits will not happen, my parents would kill me lol), space idk, no experience with snakes other then catching garders.

Do you want to house them in a tub or in a fancy enclosure? My ball pythons live in these:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/544963_3323965213557_2105882192_n.jpg

Some (most?) redtail boas (and some large dumeril boas) will need to eat rabbits when they are full grown adults. Ball pythons will eat rats as adults. Corn snakes, king snakes, rosy boas, and sand boas will mostly eat adult mice or small rats as adults.

Look them up and see which ones you like. There's a lot to consider in looking for your first snake. Would you like one that is active? or would you like a lap snake that will be calm while you watch TV?

[sawtoothscream]

more calm, think it would be ok to start with a tub then later down the road pic up a nice set up like you have? think that trandformation would bother the the snake? also are those big enough for when they are adults or is that just for now while there small?

[alessia55]

more calm, think it would be ok to start with a tub then later down the road pic up a nice set up like you have? think that trandformation would bother the the snake? also are those big enough for when they are adults or is that just for now while there small?

If you want a more calm snake, then a ball python might be a good start. It is OK to start them in a tub and later move them into a "fancier" setup, yes. The photo I posted of the two enclosures are for adults. They are 48" (length)x 24" (width) x 11.5" (height).

[sawtoothscream]

another question, where do you guys stand on the alive vs. dead feeding? if I should feed it dead mice/rats do they sell them or do I have to prekill them myself?

also what kind of heating source? basically what stuff do I need (everything) and what brands. links would be awsome. thanks

[Caylan]

I'm bored..
For a ball python I would go with a tub type enclosure, but since you feel like using an aquarium, I'll tell you how I made that work, even though it was a tad of a pain...
The main key difference for me was a folded up shower curtain... holds humidity really well, and can be custom sized to how you need it, while remaining fairly thick and usable. If you need a lamp, it can accommodate one, or for me, I use a heating pad on the underside, and heated room, while leaving a 1 inch strip along the front of the enclosure for air exchange. Regardless, shower curtains work awesome! But not all alone... I had to use coconut mulch and daily spraying to have a humidity gradient of 40-70 percent, and shedding times required a couple mistings per day. It is doable though, and adds interaction daily care to a surprisingly easy to care for animal if you only have the one. A large water dish(practically a swimming pool, not just a soaker) helps with humidity as well, and my ball enjoyed being able to swim across the dish from time to time(he was tiny though..., I used a large pie plate when I had a glass cage set up) a couple hides will do you well, I had 4 and he would use them all within a week so they were worth having... now he has the one but he enjoys going under paper as much as any true hide.
For feeding I only feed frozen, in fact, my ball was afraid of live the one time I tried to offer him one... one quick whack(to the feeder) and he was all over it though... Seems some captive snakes become accustomed to still food.
Heat source is all up to you really, but I will recommend a herpstat thermostat, in any case.. I have 3 right now and I just couldn't leave the house without them lately, just great to have to have for state of mind, regardless if I truly need them. 6 years since buying my first, and its still going strong too, well worth the investment. To recommend a heating source, I have fallen in love with Ultratherm heat mats, though they are only CSA approved, not UL listed. I personally use mostly flexwatt, but I also do not have any insurance(thus the $500 invested into just heating control units, and I plan on getting more!!) but I believe the Ceramic heat emiters work well for lightless heat if you are willing to keep up on daily humidty exchange, otherwise I would go for a radiant heat panel, though these are probably better suited for boa constrictors as opposed to a ball python, as they do well in larger enclosures, such as PVC or melamine/wooden enclosures. I would check - The Bean Farm (http://www.beanfarm.com) for pricing and immediate availability of all these items, they will have everything in one spot making shipping easier on you as well. Best of luck, feel free to pm me with any specific questions if you'd like.

[SnakeyJay]

I'd go with a small tub first personally. Apparently Royals or "ball" pythons are picky eaters so I wouldn't risk a big see through glass tank freaking him out. Goodluck with whatever you choose to do :D

[sawtoothscream]

how do you heat the tub? think if I saw a few pictures of peoples tub set ups it would make it easier.

also if buying from a store that keeps them in a glass encloser would it matter since they are already use to it? this snake stuff is harder then I thought

[StudentoReptile]

how do you heat the tub? think if I saw a few pictures of peoples tub set ups it would make it easier.

Most use an appropriately undertank heat pad (UTH) with a thermostat. A thermostat is important, because most UTHs are not made for anything besides glass.

also if buying from a store that keeps them in a glass encloser would it matter since they are already use to it? this snake stuff is harder then I thought

No it won't matter much. It'll still be a completely new environment with a new scent, new substrate and everything, so whether or not they can see out the sides of the enclosure is not much of a factor.
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Also, to address your earlier question about feeding...

I personally have had better success getting baby ball pythons to eat live mice as opposed to prekilled or frozen/thawed. Not every keeper's experience is the same, nor is every snake the same...but that is just my personal background.

Now I have nothing against either method. I myself prefer f/t simply because it is more economical for my personal situation and easier. But I have no qualms whatsoever feeding live prey to a picky eater if it is needed.

I think every potential keeper should be prepared for both options. Not every snake takes to prekilled right away, or ever...so you gotta be prepared to do what has to be done, or give the snake to someone who is.

[sawtoothscream]

Got ya. I have no issues with either method honestly. Just didn't know what's best for the snake. So under pad and thermostat. Does the under pad only go for one side so there is a cool side?

[exwizard]

yes it does. This way the snake can thermoregulate to whatever temp he wants to be in.

Btw, welcome to the forum even if I am late to this thread.

[alessia55]

Got ya. I have no issues with either method honestly. Just didn't know what's best for the snake. So under pad and thermostat. Does the under pad only go for one side so there is a cool side?

Yes, you will only put it on one side so that the other side is cooler. It forms a heat gradient, where temperatures drop across the cage from the hot side to the cool side.

Frozen/thawed or fresh/killed is safer because the live rat won't be able to scratch or bite your snake in a struggle (which could result in your snake losing scales or one of his eyes). Yes, some ball pythons can be picky eaters, but in the right conditions, most aren't. I got my baby ball python Pika to eat a f/t rat on the first try, for example. With a ball python you need patience, that's all ;)

[Terranaut]

I might have a sideways take on this.
I say if you plan on just 1 or 2 snakes get both.
Get both as young as possible. Handle often for short periods and pay close attention to their difference in personalities. Both are great starters but yes be aware the boa will get big. BUT. By the time you have a 6' boa you will have 3 yrs experience handling a boa and it will be that one so you will learn when you can't handle a boa. The nudge too. A royal is grab and go 99% of the time. So yes I suggest both and this is the most important part here. .... Save the cash for a perfect enclosure and buy it first. Not the snake. Read some of the titles on here and you will see how many issues are husbandry related. Do it right. Buy the best stuff. Make sure you can get food. Read everything. And love your pet as a pet and not an object.
Good luck. Welcome to our zoo!!

[F.M.L21]

Ball pythons don't need or like a lot of space. i feed mine f/t and keep her in a 16 gallon rubbermaid long box I have a heat pad on one side of the enclosure. over the heat pad i have the snakes hide and on the other side i have the snakes water dish. I use cypress mulch as substrait because it retains moister well and keeps humidity high. Feed them once every 5-7 days appropriately sized mice. IMO feeding live mice is a bit dangerous because the mouse can bite the snake (I had this happen with a gopher snake and it didn't end well) but its the keepers choice in the end. pretty much any pet store will sell f/t mice. temps should be around 77-85 F and humidity should be 60%-80%.

[Terranaut]

Yes f/t 100%. Best for your snake.

[sawtoothscream]

k thanks alot. Im going to alocal pet shop tomorrow to check things out. I went there years ago and they sold frozen mice and rats and should have everything I need. Ill start with tub until I can save up for a nice glass set up in the future.

what size should I start with for a young one (length, width, height)? also what do I do about the top? just stab holes in it for air or?

so thermostate, heating mat, water dish big enough so it can get all the way in?, hide over the heating pad and a hide for the cool side, digital temp and humidity gaudge, cypress mulch. what else im I missing?

I deffinatly think BP is the way to go for me, always wanted one for the longest time and size wise is perfect for me. later down the road when I move out of the house I can get a bao if I wish.

again thanks a bunch, sorry for all the questions and repeat question lol. just want to make sure I understand everything perfect and set the snake up right. also males are smaller then females right? or no?

[Terranaut]

No holes in the top. Drill them or use a soldering iron and put the in the side. Holes in the top let moisture out.

[sawtoothscream]

k gotcha, starting to really think about it I might wait a little longer before I get one. might have to go away for school and if they dont allow pets then the only person in the house that would be able to take care of it is my brother (mom and dad wouldnt touch it im sure let alone feed it), dont know if I trust any of them to check its temp and hum right and cage cleaned. my friend has a fish tank in his dorm so IDK if a snake in a plastic tub would be a issue.

[Terranaut]

Well seeing as snakes don't bark and only smell a bit when the poop which is not very often you should be good to go. Just don't mention it to anyone.

[sawtoothscream]

Well seeing as snakes don't bark and only smell a bit when the poop which is not very often you should be good to go. Just don't mention it to anyone.


thought about that. guess ill have to see if I can find a school close by or if I cant i guess ill have to see what my room mate thinks about snakes. shouldnt be hard to sneek one in