View Full Version : Snake ID in SC
bigdog2003
06-07-12, 01:51 PM
'
What is this? It was in a guy's backyard in downtown Columbia South Carolina and has been causing some major concerns around here.
http://i47.tinypic.com/6ps4r5.jpg
Looks like a black rat snake.
bigdog2003
06-07-12, 01:57 PM
Looks like a black rat snake.
Thats what I said as well on a message board for University of South Carolina fans, but people said I was wrong. They said it had to have escaped from the local zoo. I just laughed at them
StudentoReptile
06-07-12, 02:33 PM
Yep, its a black ratsnake.
Not an anaconda from the zoo. Not a giant python that migrated from Florida. Just a run-o-the-mill ratsnake.
LOL...I've seen the news articles for this one, too!
bigdog2003
06-07-12, 02:42 PM
Yep, its a black ratsnake.
Not an anaconda from the zoo. Not a giant python that migrated from Florida. Just a run-o-the-mill ratsnake.
LOL...I've seen the news articles for this one, too!
I knew when the guy said it was atleast 15-20 feet long he had no idea.
SSSSnakes
06-07-12, 03:07 PM
The head shape and size indicates it is a python of some sort. Also from what faint pattern I can see on the snake it is not a Black Rat Snake. Black Rat Snake do not get that large. I could be wrong, but until the capture the snake, I'll still say it some kind of Python. It mostly was some ones pet that escaped.
1,000% Black Rat Snake. And I would estimate it at 6 feet max.
Similar snake found here in Knoxville right down the road from my house. This one was about 5' 8":
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m82/knoxf4i/blackrat2.jpg
That photo is very deceptive for depth. That is obviously a very small tree, yet gives the impression that it is large.
SSSSnakes
06-07-12, 03:35 PM
The tree is next to the garage and the snake has it's tail on the ground and is rapped around the tree once and is going over the edge of the roof. I keep Black Rat Snakes and it does not look like a rat snake with it's head shape. I guess we will see what it is after they capture it.
That tree is nowhere near the garage. It is at least 6 to 10 feet from the garage. The camera is close to the tree, everything beyond that is skewed. I takes LOTS of pictures with my SLR camera. Trust me, that tree is well away from the garage. You have a nice wide path between the garage and the fence, and the tree is several feet in front of the fence.
bigdog2003
06-07-12, 03:41 PM
That photo is very deceptive for depth. That is obviously a very small tree, yet gives the impression that it is large.
Yes it is.
bigdog2003
06-07-12, 03:42 PM
The tree is next to the garage and the snake has it's tail on the ground and is rapped around the tree once and is going over the edge of the roof. I keep Black Rat Snakes and it does not look like a rat snake with it's head shape. I guess we will see what it is after they capture it.
There are other pictures online I just can't find them now. Clear pictures of the head make it look like a black rat snake.
SSSSnakes
06-07-12, 03:47 PM
Like I said, until it is caught. we will not know for sure. Personally, I don't care either way, just contributing my 2cents to the thread.
Like I said, until it is caught. we will not know for sure. Personally, I don't care either way, just contributing my 2cents to the thread.
But we DO know ! How can anyone look at that snake and NOT see a Black Rat? I have seen thousands over the years here in TN. I have owned at least 5 in my 25 years of owning snakes. If that is not a Black Rat Snake, then I know absolutely NOTHING about Colubrids.
StudentoReptile
06-07-12, 03:57 PM
Occam's razor, folks. Occam's razor.
alessia55
06-07-12, 05:06 PM
Actually, I don't think the photo is good enough to say it's definitely a black rat snake. There's some kind of pattern on the snake that's hard to see, and it's hard to see the face.
Look at how TINY the tree is that the snake was photographed in... Hilarious! With either of those trees being a MAXIMUM of 4 inches in diameter, that gives the length of the snake at about 6 feet - no where NEAR the 15 to 20 this guy said it was.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m82/knoxf4i/SCSnakettree.jpg
Here's the page with the video. You can CLEARLY see how small the tree is that the guy photographed with the snake:
BBCW: 20 Foot "Rat Snake" in Columbia, South Carolina (http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com/2012/05/20-foot-rat-snake-in-columbia-south.html)
Anyone still care to say this is a huge python and not a Black Rat Snake?
YouTube video clearly showing the BLACK RAT SNAKE . Pictures are at first, then a video starts. It very well could be over 6 feet from these pics, but maxing out at 7.
15 to 20 feet? This guy is nuts.
Man recalls "massive" snake sighting - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eBFAyPH4FfU#)!
Soooo.... Any more Naysayers ;-)
jaleely
06-07-12, 08:53 PM
I have to say first impression it looked like a python to me as well. *shrug* just adding my .02 cents too : )
Looks more like someone's pet got out.
Still, it does kind of look like this photo of a rat snake
Black Rat Snake Fact Sheet - National Zoo| FONZ (http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/ReptilesAmphibians/Facts/FactSheets/Blackratsnake.cfm)
though that snake clearly looks at least 5 feet or more.
StudentoReptile
06-08-12, 07:52 AM
It never ceases to astound me how unfamiliar some people can be with their native wildlife, and herps especially. On another forum, we got people regularly posting that they find box turtles in their yards thinking they are escaped redfoot tortoises. When I worked at the LPS, people would bring in captured fence lizards and ask how to care for their "baby bearded dragons." [They would do the same thing with Mediterranean geckos, mistaking them for leopards...but I would sometime pardon that error since geckos aren't something the layperson may expect to find in American suburbia.] And yeah, any snake over 4-5 feet and doesn't have a rattle on it "could" be something exotic.
Secondly, there's a lot of people out there that have no depth perception or ability to eyeball measurements. We've all heard the "fish stories" but when a tape measure is brought out, the animal suddenly shrinks! Human beings are prone to exaggeration, and sometimes I really think the behavior is involuntary or genetic, or both! Did you read some of the comments from the article? Some rube claimed there's a 15-ft corn snake living in his grandfather's barn.
Then there's the issue of forced perception in photography, as Knox as demonstrated in those photos. Again, many people are quite unfamiliar with this concept. I've seen it used in photos with hunters/fishers/trappers posing with their quarry, whether it be bear, deer, hogs, fish, crocodilians, and yes, snakes. The animal in question is situated/extended closer to the camera while the person(s) or other objects may be several feet or even yards away, while still being behind it, giving the allusion that it is larger than it really is.
Here's a couple notable examples some of you may have seen before:
http://www.popfi.com/wp-content/uploads/rattzilla-giant-rattlesnake.jpg
http://www.cajuncrawfishpie.com/giant-alligator.jpg
-------
I have to say first impression it looked like a python to me as well.
I have to ask...what kind of python did you think a slender blackish/chocolate-brown snake with a white-ish chin & underbelly could be? Barring any aberrant mutations or moprhs, I suppose it "could" have been:
a.) a member of the Liasis genus
b.) a large specimen of the Candoia genus
c.) a particularly dark specimen of Corallus perhaps
but those are all not very mainstream animals and while of course, anything is possible, not very likely to be escaped or released. I mean, most escape snake incidents usually involve burms or red-tails.
Then, like I aluded to earlier, one has to look at everything logically. This snake was found in South Carolina, well within the range of Elaphe (Pantherophis) obsoleta sp. Realistically, it looks more like a rat snake than anything else, so chances are good that it was a rat snake.
Now maybe it wasn't a "pure" black rat, and perhaps a intergrade of some sort. I've encountered enough of them in the field and kept enough of them to know they are quite variable in pattern and coloration. But I know enough to know that is a ratsnake.
In Oklahoma we have a web based resource oksnakes.org that give ranges and pics of snakes for ID purposes. As an ER doc that deals with snakebites, this has been a great tool for the patients education. I can take my iPad in their room and basically give them a "police lineup" and have them ID the snake there. Def helps cut down of confusion and often times help dispell anxiety over a bite if I can show them the snake was non venomous.
StudentoReptile
06-08-12, 12:51 PM
In Oklahoma we have a web based resource oksnakes.org that give ranges and pics of snakes for ID purposes. As an ER doc that deals with snakebites, this has been a great tool for the patients education. I can take my iPad in their room and basically give them a "police lineup" and have them ID the snake there. Def helps cut down of confusion and often times help dispell anxiety over a bite if I can show them the snake was non venomous.
That's an awesome tool. I'm in the process of creating something similar with our local herp society; basically, just a one page "cheat-sheet" for the handful of venomous snakes in our area and possible look-a-like harmless species. Something we can just hand out to anyone, and next time they see something in their yard or whatever, there's lengthy scrambling on the internet, or thumbing through a huge field guide. Just a simple photo I.D. guide they can grab off the desk and ran back outside to compare with said snake.
I'll just add in that I don't know how anyone could mistake that for a python. It is CLEARLY a black rat snake (Elaphe Obsoleta Obsoleta or Pantherophis Obsoletus Obsoletus)
The one reason I like the black rat is it's python like facial features as compared to that of say a milk snake or even a corn. That said, they are no python, that is not a large snake, and I don't see what the problem is... misconception or not, its small and doing nothing to anyone....
jaleely
06-08-12, 08:07 PM
Why is everyone getting so worked up? lol Someone asked "what do you think it is?" and so a few of us wrote "well kinda looks like etc"..why argue about it? When you know 100% what it is, then i guess....you win?
*shrug* it's soo not a big deal.
I can't really change my first impression, whether i stick with it or not...first impression looked like the shape of a python to me. Asking me "well what kind dark white belly python did you think it could be?" (in what i imagine is a sarcastic tone) is not really valid. No clue what i thought it could be. First impression was it looked like a python. I wasn't the only one to get that "Impression". I didn't go off and try to pinpoint a species. I really don't think i know it all from one small photo.
Why is everyone getting so worked up? lol Someone asked "what do you think it is?" and so a few of us wrote "well kinda looks like etc"..why argue about it? When you know 100% what it is, then i guess....you win?
*shrug* it's soo not a big deal.
I can't really change my first impression, whether i stick with it or not...first impression looked like the shape of a python to me. Asking me "well what kind dark white belly python did you think it could be?" (in what i imagine is a sarcastic tone) is not really valid. No clue what i thought it could be. First impression was it looked like a python. I wasn't the only one to get that "Impression". I didn't go off and try to pinpoint a species. I really don't think i know it all from one small photo.
I certainly am not upset. I posted several photos and a video with photos that show it to be clearly a Black Rat Snake. If I came across as rude, my sincerest apologies. That was not my intention.
When one is so sure about the identity of a snake in question, it is sometimes hard to accept why others don't see it. But it is never a reason to be condescending, and I really hope I am not seen as such.
I'm not upset either. It was just so apparent to me that it was a black rat, that I couldn't understand why most everyone was having a hard time identifying it.
@ Caylan, I don't see any similarities in the face, but that may just be me.
http://www.dpughphoto.com/images/black%20rat%20snake%20quarry%20trail%20mls%2081906 .JPG If you ask me, this is a rather long, muscular, defined-from-the-neck, antaresia type look for a colubrid, compared to the snubnosed Lampropeltis and other colubrid species. They aren't quite as python like as the african house snake in my mind, but I also like the AHS much more then the black rat :D
Still don't see it, but oh well.
StudentoReptile
06-09-12, 10:00 AM
I'm sorry if I came across as condescending. Its just that in these situations where someone is asked to identify a certain animal in their area, the logical thing to me seems to look at all possibilities in the native species of that area before automatically jumping to non-native species.
I will concur that America ratsnakes (Pantherophis/Elaphe obsoleta sp.) do kinda have a python-esque look to their head and neck regions. But I suppose I have just had enough experience with them that when I see one, I think "that looks like a ratsnake!" not "that kinda looks like a python!"
I stick to my point from my previous post that if people were more familiar with species endemic to America (and I'm not just talking about anyone here), then these kinda of issues would not arise....and (lol) we certainly wouldn't see outlandish news articles where concerned citizens see a harmless ratsnake and fear its an escaped boa or python from the zoo!
I'm sorry if I came across as condescending. Its just that in these situations where someone is asked to identify a certain animal in their area, the logical thing to me seems to look at all possibilities in the native species of that area before automatically jumping to non-native species.
I will concur that America ratsnakes (Pantherophis/Elaphe obsoleta sp.) do kinda have a python-esque look to their head and neck regions. But I suppose I have just had enough experience with them that when I see one, I think "that looks like a ratsnake!" not "that kinda looks like a python!"
I stick to my point from my previous post that if people were more familiar with species endemic to America (and I'm not just talking about anyone here), then these kinda of issues would not arise....and (lol) we certainly wouldn't see outlandish news articles where concerned citizens see a harmless ratsnake and fear its an escaped boa or python from the zoo!
This^^^ is exactly my thinking. I still don't see anything python like about the rat snake though. Maybe that's just because I have allot of experience with rat snakes and know North American snakes pretty well.
The "fact" that black rats look more like pythons than most native colubrids, is still true, whether one sees it or not. They have a longer head than most colubrids, especially native species to the US. I may not have much experience with NA rat snakes, but I do have eyes.... regardless of all that it is still a rat snake, and even if it were a released python, I see no reason for the media... its still small, still isn't hurting anyone, and is actually a rather cool sight to see, again whether native or non-native/python. Anyway, I know pythons do not occur on this side of the world anyway, so I'm no less for wear... Just surprised people are willing to argue about this, it just isn't worth it. Even the government could care less unless it hits 10 feet long....
I can certainly see how a Black Rat's head resembles that of a python:
http://www.dpughphoto.com/images/black%20rat%20snake%20quarry%20trail%20mls%2081906 .JPG
But make no mistake, the snake in question is, without question, a Black Rat.
:)
SSSSnakes
06-10-12, 07:38 AM
Talk about "Beating a dead horse".
Talk about "Beating a dead horse".
Naaahhhh.... Just having some fun talk about snakes.
StudentoReptile
06-10-12, 01:26 PM
Naaahhhh.... Just having some fun talk about snakes.
Better than beating a dead snake! Which hopefully wasn't the fate of that "python" in South Carolina!!!;)
Talk about "Beating a dead horse".
We are reptile hobbyist, this is a reptile forum and we are all here to talk about about reptiles.
After observing the last pic, I do kinda see the resemblance, but barely. Looking at a rat snake would never make me think "python".
We are reptile hobbyist, this is a reptile forum and we are all here to talk about about reptiles.
Indeed :cool:
Better than beating a dead snake! Which hopefully wasn't the fate of that "python" in South Carolina!!!;)
:yes: Nicely stated.
bigdog2003
06-12-12, 08:01 PM
Better than beating a dead snake! Which hopefully wasn't the fate of that "python" in South Carolina!!!;)
They still haven't be able to find it, which is a good thing for the snake.
StudentoReptile
06-13-12, 07:29 AM
They still haven't be able to find it, which is a good thing for the snake.
You mean, they lost it?! I mean, it was like, 15-20 feet long, right?! How does one lose track of a snake that size? :laugh: :rolleyes:
bigdog2003
06-16-12, 08:22 PM
You mean, they lost it?! I mean, it was like, 15-20 feet long, right?! How does one lose track of a snake that size? :laugh: :rolleyes:
The guy is still telling people the snake is atleast 15 feet long. I guess he has to keep his 15 minutes of fame going.
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