Hognose bite!

[insignia100]

Well, tonight was a first. Bonnie, my female hoggie, decided that my index finger looked a lot like her hopper mice, so she decided to go for the kill. ;)

She gnawed on the side of my finger for about 3 minutes before I could get her off. I tried pouring cold water to get her to let go (read that somewhere, can't remember where) without luck. I ended up gently taking the tip of my snake hook and wedged it between her upper jaw and my finger. That did the trick. While I wouldn't normally recommend that for the snake's safety, I was very careful and gentle. I wasn't going to let her gnaw on me for the next 10 minutes, especially since she was desperately trying to get my whole finger down her gullet. ;)

We'll see if my opinion on the venomous nature of hogenose bites changes in the next few days. I'll keep you all updated. :D

[shaunyboy]

it will be interesting to see if you have a reaction

if you do,could you take pictures as the reaction progresses

i hope you DON'T get too bad a reaction,but if you do get one.....

then there's NO sense,in missing out on a few pictures,in the name of science;)

cheers shaun

[insignia100]

Well of course. As they say, pics or it didn't happen. ;)

[shaunyboy]

Well of course. As they say, pics or it didn't happen. ;)

SORRY mate,but.....

i'm waiting on pictures of a swollen,inflamed,painfull looking finger...

i know that sounds terrible,but i've seen other people on a different forum,sustain a hoggie bite,some had reactions,some didn't

imo,its interesting stuff

cheers shaun

[insignia100]

Well, I'll unwrap it in the morning and see how it looks. So far it doesn't hurt anymore.

[insignia100]

Oh yea, forgot to mention. I went ahead and took a few benadryl just in case. My medical training kicked in before the idea of keeping track of the reaction came to me. ;)

[shaunyboy]

Oh yea, forgot to mention. I went ahead and took a few benadryl just in case. My medical training kicked in before the idea of keeping track of the reaction came to me. ;)

^^^^^
are they some kind of anti hystamiene pill,to stop allergic reactions mate ?

if so imo,that should keep any bad reaction,to a minimum

cheers shaun

[insignia100]

Yes, it is an antihistamine which hopefully will minimize swelling. However, I don't think benadryl alone is enough to stave off a reaction to venom completely.

[insignia100]

She was QUITE hungry. I just fed her and I've never seen her strike at a mouse like I did just now. Usually she's the kind of snake that will just slither up and start swallowing a hopper.

[jaleely]

lol oh insignia! I hope you're okay. I only experienced a little swelling, and liquid seepage from the deepest puncture area.

All well (not at all) documented here
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/heterodon/90310-sigh-hognose-bite.html

Benadryl did the trick...which makes me think it is more of a reaction to saliva than a venom...but some day i'll have enough money to study the true aspect of hognose "venom" lol
Good luck! Def keep us updated!

[Terranaut]

Next time use a drop of booze. Rum or rye and just a dab on the nose or near it and they are off. I read this a while ago and used it on my king when he did the same thing to my son. Took about 1/10 of a second and he let go. Now we keep one of those single serving bottles next to the snake cages for emergency use....on the snakes.....if needed ;)

[insignia100]

Okay, a little update this morning. I have some mild swelling, localized to the affected finger. No swelling in my hand. On appearance the swelling is very mild and practically not visible unless you look very closely. It is enough swelling to prevent me from completely flexing my index finger, though.

[Gregg M]

Benadryl did the trick...which makes me think it is more of a reaction to saliva than a venom...but some day i'll have enough money to study the true aspect of hognose "venom" lol
Good luck! Def keep us updated!

Saying you do not think hognose snakes have venom is like saying rattlesnakes dont have venom. The studies have already been done. They are venomous. The toxins are there, no way around it. They are just not dangerous to humans. The symptoms from hognose bites do not go hand in hand with an allergic reaction and any treatment for an allergy has not alieviated the symptoms. This is also well documented.

If it were an allergic reaction, benadryl should alieviate the syptoms right away.

[jaleely]

Which, if you saw, i said that benadryl did alleviate symptoms fairly quickly.
but, regardless, i haven't done much research about it and i know there are arguments back and forth.
I thought one post somewhere said that they lacked the venom glands..

Anyway, the other point is, they are not dangerous.

[insignia100]

Swelling seems to be decreasing a bit as the day moves on. I can flex my index finger more than I could this morning. Still very little visible evidence of swelling so photos would be pointless.

[Rogue628]

Did you take more benadryl or just took it initially?

Good to hear that your reaction to it's venom is at a minimum. :)

[insignia100]

I took 50mg (2 normal capsules) right after the bite last night. They did not seem to help that much, honestly. I'm happy to say that tonight, a little over 24 hours later, practically all of the swelling as subsided and my index finger is practically back to normal.

[Rogue628]

Good deal.

I've often thought about getting a hoggie, but I get severe swelling and redness from most insects so I'm not sure how well my body would deal with a hoggie bite if I were to get bitten.

[Caylan]

Is it not the allergy factor that causes the hognose venom to be more potent? I could see a benedryl helping that, I've seen it help beestings.

[insignia100]

*shrugs* I know that in general Benadryl doesn't do much for me for allergies and such, so it might depend on the effectiveness of Benadryl for each individual.

[exwizard]

*shrugs* I know that in general Benadryl doesn't do much for me for allergies and such, so it might depend on the effectiveness of Benadryl for each individual.So whats the verdict now IYO, venomous or not?

[insignia100]

After doing some reading on allergic reactions (which are my weak point... read up yourself and you'll know what I mean), I'm inclined to believe that it is not an allergic reaction. The seeming lack of response to Benadryl and the fact that a bite would likely result in more of an anaphylactic response if it were an allergic reaction does point to envenomation. Of course, as has been stated before, its certainly not a medically important venom.

[exwizard]

True it's very mild but yeah I agree. Its venom.

[Gregg M]

I thought one post somewhere said that they lacked the venom glands.

They have a Duvernoys gland. It is not as evolved as a venom gland like you would find in viperids or elapids. However it is indeed a primative venom gland that does secrete venom. What hognose snakes do lack are venom ducts from the gland to the teeth. However, the gland still chennels venom to the rear fangs well enough to subdue prey and to make their bites uncomfortable. Their rear fang is also not grooved.

Anyway, the other point is, they are not dangerous.

And that is the most important point. Personally, I have been bitten quite a few time and have had no reaction. Then again, I do not allow them to hang on for very long. I have a really good method for getting them off quickly.

[jaleely]

That's what it was, the venom ducts. Also the non grooved fangs made me think it was something about the saliva as well. Regardless, i agree again with the point they are harmless. They are SO cute, and generally just do not bite..mine only bit because he smelled food lol
ANd really , I am at fault becuase i let him bite for so long...because i wanted a photo...lol when he initially opened his mouth he hadn't even broken the skin.
I think that's what i was thinking of too...i had time to feel each bit of pressure, and feel the fangs penitrate into the skin, then flesh. I probably wouldn't have had any reaction at all, but i did let him bite for longer than i should have...which without the ducts, and the grooves in the teeth, aslo made me think saliva had time to get in there.
Is it more that the saliva carries the venom from the back where the glands are??

Was reading something the other day about garter snakes, too. Something that said they do have very tiny primitive venom glands, but that they do not come into play until the food is down their throat....which kind of doesn't make sense lol

[StudentoReptile]

Venomous? Yes.
Medically-relevant? Maybe in some cases.
Dangerous or life-threatening? Hardly.

[kernel]

What I fear is that as soon as they start listing them venomous, people that don't kill nonvenomous snakes will start killing them too.

[GUITARZAN509]

Rubbing alcohol under their nose or use a credit card or something like slid in the mouth to release grip