Sex my Savannah?

[AjaMichelle]

Hi!
My savannah monitor is about 11 inches SVL and 12/13 months old.

Anyone have an idea as to the sex?

SVL
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5080112_Copy.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5090126_Copy.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5150267.jpg

A little blurry...
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5150272.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5150275.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5150276.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5150278.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P3300024.jpg

[infernalis]

This is a tough one...

Smallish size, snout/face shape seems to lean to female.

I know I have been reading about your Sav for a few months now, but I will ask anyway..

Is it outgoing and friendly, or is it shy??

if you watch him/her enough, sooner or later you will see... (Chomper was a boy)

http://www.mypetforums.com/photos/pp.jpg

[BarelyBreathing]

I still think it's a female.

[Gregg M]

If I had to guess, I would be pretty sure its a male based on the hemipenile buldges and head shape If I had a full body shot nose tip to tail tip, I would be able to tell you better. Males and female have slightly different tail shapes even fresh out of the egg. Also, with a snout/vent of 11 inches, a female would be dropping eggs by now.

[AjaMichelle]

Gregg, a dorsal full body shot?

[Gregg M]

Gregg, a dorsal full body shot?

Yes, that would be great.

[AjaMichelle]

Okay I'll get an aerial shot tomorrow :)

[GarterPython]

I have no idea how to tell but I had to throw this out there. What was that picture wayne?

[AjaMichelle]

It's a photo of a savannah monitor everting its hemipenes

[GarterPython]

Okay thanks

[AjaMichelle]

This is a tough one...

Smallish size, snout/face shape seems to lean to female.

I know I have been reading about your Sav for a few months now, but I will ask anyway..

Is it outgoing and friendly, or is it shy??

if you watch him/her enough, sooner or later you will see... (Chomper was a boy)



I'm not sure about behavior. I would say she's become more outgoing as I've earned her trust. I often see her out basking and lurking and foraging. But only in the afternoon.

I still think it's a female.

:)

[AjaMichelle]

These are my attempts at aerial shots. Are they sufficient or do I need more? :)

Also she was in fairly poor health when I got her and has grown visibly larger only in the last few months. I was thinking this may delay reproduction?

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5160290.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5170292.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5170296.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5170298.jpg

[Gregg M]

Hmmm, I am still going with it being a young male. The tail from the base has a gradual taper. At this point though you will just be getting rough guesses. I could very well be wrong.

By the way, your savannah looks to be in very good shape.

[AjaMichelle]

I understand, but conjecturing is fun. :)

[millertime89]

I was told something the other day, I'm curious if it works. Powerfeed him for a few hours, wait 6 hours, then put him in a warm bath and watch when he takes a dump, should be able to see the hemipeens or the hemiclitoris.
No experience, just what I was told.

[AjaMichelle]

I don't handle her. I could see this working at any point though, if the intromittent organs are everted when defecating. She has a water bowl she uses as a toilet. She never defecates anywhere else, and she poops one to two times per day.

[millertime89]

maybe swap it out for a clear plastic Tupperware dish so you can watch?

[AjaMichelle]

That's exactly what I'm using! :) getting her to poop in front of me might be a hurdle though.

[millertime89]

ha ha, get a book and a lawn chair and hang out for a while!

[BlueButterfly]

This is a tough one...

Smallish size, snout/face shape seems to lean to female.

I know I have been reading about your Sav for a few months now, but I will ask anyway..

Is it outgoing and friendly, or is it shy??

if you watch him/her enough, sooner or later you will see... (Chomper was a boy)

http://www.mypetforums.com/photos/pp.jpg
Well I can say Harley is a boy for sure. As we saw that exact same thing when he was on his last walk. He did it on the grass. Lol. He always usually goes in his tub too.

[AjaMichelle]

By the way, your savannah looks to be in very good shape.

That means a lot! She was such a mess when I brought her home, unbeknownst to me of course.

Day one:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/puddinpop_77/Sav/P9290439_Copy.jpg

After treatment for Giardia:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/puddinpop_77/PA160230.jpg

[BarelyBreathing]

Aja, this is a HUGE compliment: When I first saw that photo, I thought you had a dead monitor on your hands. Not dying, dead. It's all because of you that she is here today, and she looks WONDERFUL. Seriously, you can't tell from the recent photos that there was ever anything wrong. Great job.

[Dehlida]

90% on Male. Head looks too broad for female of this species.

[AjaMichelle]

Aja, this is a HUGE compliment: When I first saw that photo, I thought you had a dead monitor on your hands. Not dying, dead. It's all because of you that she is here today, and she looks WONDERFUL. Seriously, you can't tell from the recent photos that there was ever anything wrong. Great job.

Thanks! I'm humbled :)
I just hope there's no long term organ damage...

90% on Male. Head looks too broad for female of this species.

Cool so 3 votes for male and 7 for female! I'm reeeaaallly hoping she's a male lol But I'll prepare appropriately in case she's female.

[mo9e64]

male,or she's packin' a sock in her pants

[AjaMichelle]

male,or she's packin' a sock in her pants

ha ha too funny! :) I thought female savannah monitors were a little bulgy too, but considerably less when compared to males.

[infernalis]

Lizard cameltoe....

[AjaMichelle]

Lizard cameltoe....

She's got it!!! :)

[infernalis]

and I was worried about being offensive...

[mo9e64]

I couldn't help notice that you say that you don't handle your Sav.In my opinion that may be the difference between sucess and failure with an ill monitor,this is an example where giving a drug the lesser of two evils might have made the situation worse.Security or less exposure to stress was the difference between recovery and possible death.I'm just making this statement from your one comment,so correct anything that might be untrue.We are dealing with stress issues,or i am LOL on another thread so your comments might be helpful.I personally think since stress and it's effects are hard to measure or not confuse with other issues that it is pretty much ignored.

[varanus_mad]

I couldn't help notice that you say that you don't handle your Sav.In my opinion that may be the difference between sucess and failure with an ill monitor,this is an example where giving a drug the lesser of two evils might have made the situation worse.Security or less exposure to stress was the difference between recovery and possible death.I'm just making this statement from your one comment,so correct anything that might be untrue.We are dealing with stress issues,or i am LOL on another thread so your comments might be helpful.I personally think since stress and it's effects are hard to measure or not confuse with other issues that it is pretty much ignored.


Mo i have to agree with you on this one... Stress is a big killer of monitors and is often overlooked as a detrimental effect on the overall health of the monitor.

Drugs... hmmmm im one of those people who thinks the stuff where using at the moment needs more work... the majority of it most of the work using this stuff has been done with mammals...

So long term or even the short term effects are relatively unknown... in some cases certain types of anti-biotics actually depress a lizards immune system rather than work with it...

[AjaMichelle]

I definitely take the hands off approach when it comes to monitors, despite my limited experience. I waited about a week to see if good husbandry would help her start to heal. However, handling and medication couldn't be avoided. She couldn't hold down food and regurgitated everything she attempted to eat. I was told by the pet store that she had been regurgitating previously but I attributed it to her basking temp being 75*F. No matter what I fed, I would find it regurgitated later. My temps and humidity were spot on, she was in a low-traffic quiet area, and she had multiple hides. I didn't want to wait until she started wasting or became lethargic to treat her, especially considering she was barely 6 inches SVL and about 50 grams at 5 to 6 months old.

She was able to hold down food after about 4 days of medication and based on her reaction, I think she would have died had I waited any longer to start medicating her.

[Lankyrob]

Sorry to interrupt the thread but have seen the phrase "lengthSVL" a few times on lizard threads - does it mean snout to back legs or snout to tail???? :confused:

[varanus_mad]

Sorry to interrupt the thread but have seen the phrase "lengthSVL" a few times on lizard threads - does it mean snout to back legs or snout to tail???? :confused:


snout to vent... you know the bit the poop comes out of LOL

[varanus_mad]

I definitely take the hands off approach when it comes to monitors, despite my limited experience. I waited about a week to see if good husbandry would help her start to heal. However, handling and medication couldn't be avoided. She couldn't hold down food and regurgitated everything she attempted to eat. I was told by the pet store that she had been regurgitating previously but I attributed it to her basking temp being 75*F. No matter what I fed, I would find it regurgitated later. My temps and humidity were spot on, she was in a low-traffic quiet area, and she had multiple hides. I didn't want to wait until she started wasting or became lethargic to treat her, especially considering she was barely 6 inches SVL and about 50 grams at 5 to 6 months old.

She was able to hold down food after about 4 days of medication and based on her reaction, I think she would have died had I waited any longer to start medicating her.

Under those circs id say you did the right thing. Glad it worked out for you and the little lass ( i reckons)

[Lankyrob]

snout to vent... you know the bit the poop comes out of LOL


Thanks - that makes sense :)

[AjaMichelle]

Under those circs id say you did the right thing. Glad it worked out for you and the little lass ( i reckons)

Yeah at the time I was worried I'd made the wrong choice because she started wasting and became lethargic but she maintained a good appetite and I basically fed her as much as she could eat. :)

And then last week, this happened:
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5150282.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/P5150281.jpg

:D

[varanus_mad]

Thats on of my personnel favourite bits of monitor husbandry... interacting with you as best as they able

[AjaMichelle]

Thats on of my personnel favourite bits of monitor husbandry... interacting with you as best as they able

I was so excited! I am currently earning her affections by bartering with food lol :) but I anticipate that she'll come around eventually, though it might take another nine months.

However, I hope she becomes comfortable with me picking her up this summer because Ill need to move her into her adult enclosure.

[mo9e64]

hopefully people will see how your approach will lead to a long living Sav-very refreshing,keep up the good job

[AjaMichelle]

hopefully people will see how your approach will lead to a long living Sav-very refreshing,keep up the good job

Thanks! :)

[josh1990]

im no savannah expert but i will suggest male strongly, now you wonder why most female lizards i have always found them to lack size over a male even if you have got them at same age and fed them they same this guy here is well fed and very healthy lookiing i might add well done thats my thoughts i could continue but i will let you dwell on that ... ta

[varanus_mad]

Hiya josh just to screw with your head the largest p. hornii iver ever encountered was... female...

in a species thats generally a lot more sexually dimorphic than bosc's