Sad :( Savs at pet store.

[Terranaut]

So I was at a local pet store for some feeders and saw this.
I tried to tell the store owner these are not beardies but he said he wouldn't have them long enough to worry about it.
I don't keep savs but even I knew super dry and an inch of sand is not the way to keep these :(
Wish I had more room :(
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/photo-1856.jpg

[SnakeyJay]

It's disgusting how little the shop cares! They'll be sold on to an almost certain early death. Sad :(

[AjaMichelle]

: ( that sucks. I wish I had room for more than one. One day!

[infernalis]

Now take what you see here, multiply by about 7-10,000 and you will have the annual (rough figure) number of these animals that are sitting in pretty much the same setup.

[CDN_Blood]

Now take what you see here, multiply by about 7-10,000 and you will have the annual (rough figure) number of these animals that are sitting in pretty much the same setup.

I'd agree with this. I wish we could get pet shops out of reptiles altogether, but until folks stop buying them from these places that's just not going to happen.

I've said it before in one of my rants - for every reptile sold, they’re going to get another to replace it, so don’t think you’re doing a herp any favours by taking it out of the pet shop because in fact it only encourages them to get another to take it’s place. It’s a vicious circle, so think long and hard before buying from them.

Truth be told, you're doing future reptiles a favour by leaving the ones you see in a pet shop right where they are. It's a sad truth, but you have to think of the bigger picture.

[mo9e64]

If you can care for it properly and it's a seemingly healthy animal,that's one more cared for animal.Unless you're going for a ban of somekind,these animal should get into the best hands.Talk to the store keepers,buy the animal,do things you have actual control over-or do the opposite don't support the industry.

[infernalis]

Another potentially controversial subject.

Think about this, when you buy online, you are taking a huge leap of faith..

Anyone can make (or hire a designer) a great looking web site.. but the internet is one of the best places to propagate B.S.

Internet ad......(these guys have to be better than a walk in pet shop??)

http://www.varanid.us/shocking/pets.jpg

Reality check.. behind that "hidden" internet site with a P.O. box and paypal account.

http://www.varanid.us/shocking/squalor.jpg

[Fredricks]

It's definitely really frustrating. Is that right in your area? I sometimes frequent different store to check out what they have, I'm glad you said something. Hopefully it changes

[CDN_Blood]

Only a fool buys something sight unseen :cool:

[infernalis]

Only a fool buys something sight unseen :cool:

I wish I could count the number of posts I have read over the years that read like this.....

"The animal I received looks nothing like the pictures they showed me"

[Brently]

Only a fool buys something sight unseen :cool:

I am not sure that is fair. I bought my boa without ever having laid eyes on her. I figure if she was being housed and cared for improperly, at least she isn't anymore. And if she was well taken care of then I have one less headache to worry about. I think it is all just a matter of perspective. But the ultimate goal should be to get these animals our of places that don't care for them over money.

[Gungirl]

I am not sure that is fair. I bought my boa without ever having laid eyes on her. I figure if she was being housed and cared for improperly, at least she isn't anymore. And if she was well taken care of then I have one less headache to worry about. I think it is all just a matter of perspective. But the ultimate goal should be to get these animals our of places that don't care for them over money.

If your ultimate goal is to get the animals out of places that don't care for them you need to leave the animals there. If you buy one they will put another in its place however sad it is you need to let it die. If all the animals they have for sale die they will not purchase/breed more to sell. Yes it sucks but it's how it works.

[Terranaut]

Yup the painful truth is .... People suck :(

[Rogue628]

:(

And that vicious cycle is so frustrating, especially for those of us who have huge hearts....

[Shmoges]

Well look on the bright side, when we are all dead no one will be cruel to animals anymore!!

[Dehlida]

The ones there look better than the one left in my mall's pet store. I went in there with my fiance a few weeks ago and saw it, and proceeded to loudly call the employees ******** and turned away several visitors after I pointed out how jacked up it was.

I love making a scene in pet stores about retardation, and them losing business, trolling IRL is great.

[jarich]

Imagine how much more useful it would be if you took all that energy and put it into educating the workers there on proper care in a constructive way that they could learn from. Imagine the satisfaction you'd feel when they too could pass that information onto others like yourself. The propagation of intelligence is never a battle, but rather a rebuilding.

[Dehlida]

Imagine how much more useful it would be if you took all that energy and put it into educating the workers there on proper care in a constructive way that they could learn from. Imagine the satisfaction you'd feel when they too could pass that information onto others like yourself. The propagation of intelligence is never a battle, but rather a rebuilding.

Imagine if you had any idea how a big box pet store worked rather than spouting nonsense. Do you think they care at all about the animal? NOPE, they buy from puppy mills, have 20 ferrets in a 3x2 cage, and order reptiles in bulk, breed rodents on the spot for sale.

I've tried education at these mongoloids, but how are they going to make money off the cheap import lizard if they have to actually take care of it, they don't know how much a monitor actually costs to properly keep, and care more about the money (because they are, a business after all), than the animals well being.

It's a battle, take a look at the number of savannahs and niles imported into this country every year, and see how few of them survive past a few months, and get your head straight ;)

[millertime89]

I have to agree with Dehlida, the mom and pop stores are the ones you can usually influence to change for the better, but the big ones like petco petsmart and the like there's no hope without a management change. If you've tried once, and I mean really tried, and nothing has changed, nothing ever will.

[infernalis]

I've tried education at these mongoloids, but how are they going to make money off the cheap import lizard if they have to actually take care of it, they don't know how much a monitor actually costs to properly keep, and care more about the money (because they are, a business after all), than the animals well being. ;)

Been there done that, It does not work.

Last year a Sav died on display at a local pet store, I just saw another one sitting in the same store, drooped over a hot rock in a glass aquarium, a tall one at that with a dismal light bulb some 24 inches up away from the highest point the lizard could reach, with a 2 inch layer of wood chip mulch for substrate.

[varanus_mad]

My local rep shop think im mad...

i asked how much a sav was... got given a bad caresheet then spent the next hour ranting...

anywho...

Rep shops... The best you can hope for is there not sat there to long and get bought by someone who spends more than 5 minutes researching them on the internet.

[exwizard]

Just one question out of curiosity. If pet stores arent where to go to get pets, internet sites being the market for fools and reptile expos not being the best places to go either, where do you go to get quality animals?

Personally I wouldnt go to a pet store myself but I have bought some of my snakes from reptile expos, others from private deals and still others off of sites like CL and KS. I am very happy with my collection and dont regret any acquisition Ive ever made.

[Lankyrob]

SOME reptile stores are great, the one we use is owned by and staffed by reptile enthusiasts that adore reptiles and will turn away sales rather than sell to someone who is unprepared.

[StudentoReptile]

Haven't heard the word "mongoloid" in a while...

[jarich]

Imagine if you had any idea how a big box pet store worked rather than spouting nonsense. Do you think they care at all about the animal? NOPE, they buy from puppy mills, have 20 ferrets in a 3x2 cage, and order reptiles in bulk, breed rodents on the spot for sale.

I've tried education at these mongoloids, but how are they going to make money off the cheap import lizard if they have to actually take care of it, they don't know how much a monitor actually costs to properly keep, and care more about the money (because they are, a business after all), than the animals well being.

It's a battle, take a look at the number of savannahs and niles imported into this country every year, and see how few of them survive past a few months, and get your head straight ;)

Ha! Get my head straight? Cheers, that one made me chuckle. The fact that you dont see the irony of it is perhaps the funniest part. I wonder how many of those monitors you saved by throwing a fit. I chose this particular thread to call you out, as I saw in the course of a few minutes that you had posted a number of responses that illustrated my point here. You are more interested in being right and wanting people to see that, than you are of helping others to find what is right and therefore actually helping the animals conditions.

If I am wrong then my apologies, your passion is commendable, and obviously I stand in the minority in this particular discussion. What I was trying to do is possibly bring to light that the way in which you attempt to interact with people in the wrong is usually less about them and more about you. That fit you threw in the store might have made you feel better about yourself, but did it have any effect on that pet store? Do you think it saved even one reptiles life? I doubt it. And by doing so, you closed the door on them ever listening to anything you had to say afterwards. Its not easy to convince pet store people that there are better ways. Actually changing a persons mind takes time, empathy, and finesse. Look at how difficult it is even here to change a persons mind, where we are all trying towards the same goal of better animal husbandry. Think of how much harder it is for a pet store employee who doesnt know you from a hole in the wall?

Here in NYC there is a large chain of pet stores called Petland Discounts. They have most of the pet stores in the city. Each one, though all part of the chain, has different managers who treat the animals differently. The one by my house does an amazing job, and it shows in the health of the reptiles. The manager is very open to learning more and we have had many good conversations about how to make things better. She does care about the animals, and hires people who do as well.

I have another of the same pet store chain close to work that treats its animals appallingly. The manager there is not so amenable to change. What I found is that by taking a few minutes with individual workers there I have been able to slowly change some of the ways they in turn interact with the animals and any possible buyers. Again, not in a "youre an idiot and youre killing your animals" kind of way, but more in a "here is something interesting about this animal" guidance to the point. There is a still a long way to go, and there are still some truly awful tanks there with animals still dying. However, I can at least see some progress, and see every indication that I am getting through, however slowly.

If the point is to actually make a difference in the lives of the animals, then lets look realistically at which path might get us to that goal. There are many simple and inexpensive ways to improve the lives of the animals in the care of pet stores. It may not be ideal in the end, but every bit helps.

Im also well aware of the numbers of monitors that are imported into the country each year. However, the majority dont die in pet stores, they die with uninformed keepers. And the way you handle discourse isnt convincing many of them, Im afraid.

[jarich]

Haven't heard the word "mongoloid" in a while...

By the way, SoR, there is a reason you havent heard that word in awhile. Its a severely racist term, and as a result is generally not used anymore by anyone with their 'head straight'

[millertime89]

Just one question out of curiosity. If pet stores arent where to go to get pets, internet sites being the market for fools and reptile expos not being the best places to go either, where do you go to get quality animals?

Personally I wouldnt go to a pet store myself but I have bought some of my snakes from reptile expos, others from private deals and still others off of sites like CL and KS. I am very happy with my collection and dont regret any acquisition Ive ever made.

People are prejudiced against anything for any reason they can find to be prejudiced against it. Go with what works for you. Anymore I try tracking down breeders via forums and FB groups and talking with them directly and then making my purchase based on the information they have presented me. I try and visit if at all possible, or have someone I know and trust visit or vouch for them. Expos are a great place to meet breeders too and begin building a business relationship IMO. There are some GREAT breeders at expos, especially at the Omaha one. Des Moines is great as well and I'm sure any one that Jimmy puts on is going to be a quality expo.

By the way, SoR, there is a reason you havent heard that word in awhile. Its a severely racist term, and as a result is generally not used anymore by anyone with their 'head straight'

I think that was implied by the "..."

[jarich]

My bad, youre probably right. ;)

[StudentoReptile]

Just one question out of curiosity. If pet stores arent where to go to get pets, internet sites being the market for fools and reptile expos not being the best places to go either, where do you go to get quality animals?

Like Miller said, go with works for you. I personally don't think the internet is horrible, but it is definitely a "buyer beware" environment. Many foolishly go with whoever has the cheapest prices and well, you get what you pay for. Likewise, many vendors play on that. The same goes for expos. The key is connecting with reputable people in the hobby and building good relationships. Eventually, you'll develop your own little "black book" of who you will buy from and who you won't. Bottom line: if you want quality animals, it is probably best to go straight to the source. Quality animals are worth the higher price and if more people are willing to hold out for quality over quantity (lower prices), then we will hit everyone else where it hurts them the most: their pocketbooks.

I don't know who said the internet is for fools, but sometimes you gotta bend your own rules every so often to get what you want. For example, the snakes species I'm interested will never be available in pet stores. I have never seen them at any expo. Unless I make a trip across seas and try to bring them back myself (not realistic for a number of reasons), I HAVE to buy them through an online dealer.

Personally I wouldnt go to a pet store myself but I have bought some of my snakes from reptile expos, others from private deals and still others off of sites like CL and KS. I am very happy with my collection and dont regret any acquisition Ive ever made.

Ditto. I've gotten animals from all over, including several from petstores. For the most part, I've always been aware of what I was getting. The few regrets I do have were from my own short-comings and not from the vendor.

[StudentoReptile]

My bad, youre probably right. ;)

When I first made the comment, I'll admit that I had forgotten it was a racial slur and was just making the casual observation that I had not heard it used in a long time.

Your response thereafter did refresh my memory in that it was racist in origin.

[infernalis]

I don't know who said the internet is for fools, but sometimes you gotta bend your own rules every so often to get what you want. For example, the snakes species I'm interested will never be available in pet stores. I have never seen them at any expo. Unless I make a trip across seas and try to bring them back myself (not realistic for a number of reasons), I HAVE to buy them through an online dealer..




I may have planted that seed, but it's been taken way out of context, one can be easily fooled on the internet... BUT..

I buy animals from breeders who know each other and have phones, luckily they sometimes call me.. (imagine that)

Like said, in time anyone can get "networked" with the right people.

If there is any doubt, just go on the Fauna BOI and search the person's name.

Don't expect a lot of good reviews, but certainly beware of anyone who has a dozen complaints.

And even then, use judgment.

I recently purchased Dubia roaches from a young man who had gone through some rough times, he had slander threads on BOI, but he filled my order as expected and on time.

so my advice is go with your gut... If something feels fishy, look into it deeper before giving up money. Try and use vendors who accept paypal, paypal can be a bitch to vendors when customers complain.

[StudentoReptile]

Good advice, Wayne. The key is definitely using good judgment.

I do want to elaborate on one thing, since you did mention Fauna and the BOI. If anyone does do a search for a business, or vendor, etc, and you see some results, PLEEEAAAASE read the entire thread(s), whether they be good or bad. Many threads are made in error, and in many instances, it is often revealed that the "accused" is in the right and the "accuser" is actually the one you want to avoid dealing with. Don't just assume that just because "Boa Bob" has 2 good guy threads and 12 bad ones, that he is a horrible scumbag to be shunned from the hobby. I know some of those threads can go on and on, but make sure you read more than just the first 2 pages.

[millertime89]

Good advice, Wayne. The key is definitely using good judgment.

I do want to elaborate on one thing, since you did mention Fauna and the BOI. If anyone does do a search for a business, or vendor, etc, and you see some results, PLEEEAAAASE read the entire thread(s), whether they be good or bad. Many threads are made in error, and in many instances, it is often revealed that the "accused" is in the right and the "accuser" is actually the one you want to avoid dealing with. Don't just assume that just because "Boa Bob" has 2 good guy threads and 12 bad ones, that he is a horrible scumbag to be shunned from the hobby. I know some of those threads can go on and on, but make sure you read more than just the first 2 pages.

Excellent point, there's one thread that was recently posted that this seems to be the case. Actually I personally think guilt is shared by both parties as I KNOW we're not getting the full story. Damn retic community and their BS drama...

[Kratos]

What I think needs to happen is if you are selling animals online you will need to get a licence or permet of some sort and have inspectors pass by thier location about every 6 months to a year to check how they are caring for thier animals. If they are in a bad condition pull thier licences or permets and shut them down and if they try to start the bussiness again they will have only 1 months to get it right or never be able to sell again and fine them a hefty amount.

This is somthing I think should happen because that is just sad how people keep them like that photo. Me personaly whenever I hear a dog crying in the area I go and check it out make sure it not abuse or when I see dogs in bad health in someone yard best belive im that guy who will call animal control to check it out.

I cant even bare the sight of a dead animal I just get sad had mad. people need to wake up, how will they like it if they were pets and kept in bad conditions. Maby thats what they should do to thies people.

[StudentoReptile]

Excellent point, there's one thread that was recently posted that this seems to be the case. Actually I personally think guilt is shared by both parties as I KNOW we're not getting the full story. Damn retic community and their BS drama...

One of a few reasons why I don't even associate with the site anymore. In general, the site is not what it used to be. But oh well...we're getting off-topic, and I know this could be a very long rabbit trail, so...yeah, pet stores suck, huh? :P

[StudentoReptile]

What I think needs to happen is if you are selling animals online you will need to get a licence or permet of some sort and have inspectors pass by thier location about every 6 months to a year to check how they are caring for thier animals. If they are in a bad condition pull thier licences or permets and shut them down and if they try to start the bussiness again they will have only 1 months to get it right or never be able to sell again and fine them a hefty amount.

I can understand where you're coming from, but this is really not a great idea. The last thing our hobby needs more govt instrusion. This was recently discussed on another forum and one member had a great example that I'll do my best to summarize here.

Say I'm a tortoise breeder. Anyone who keeps a large number of any herp can attest that it is a chore to keep up with it all to ensure every animal stays healthy, enclosures look fairly clean, water bowls always have fresh clean water, etc. Its hard enough with a collection of snakes, animals that typically only eat and defecate on a weekly basis. The work load is increased dramatically for those who keep large numbers of lizards or chelonians.

Every morning, I get up and I know I have an inspection later that day for approval of my "license" to sell online, if you will. ON top of everything else, I am now stressed. This increases my chances of making an error, maybe I miss a cage that needs to be spot-cleaned, or I forget to clean-out a water bowl, etc. Even if I did, we all know that for many herps, a freshly cleaned and filled water bowl is a magnet for the reptile that has to poop. Invariably, as soon as the doorbell rings, 3 tortoises decide to use their water bowls for a latrine. The inspector sees a soiled water bowl and this affects his review. Now, any experienced keeper knows this is just part of day-to-day care and one turd in a water bowl is not the end of the world. But the inspector doesn't know that. Some of the cages don't have any food. The inspector doesn't understand that some of my animals are nocturnal and prefer to eat later in the day and it's actually wasteful for me to put food for them in the morning. Do you see where this is going?

In an ideal world, it would be nice to have permits to decide who is "worthy" of keeping pets and who is not. But likewise, in an ideal world, everyone would take wonderful care of their animals and the need for permits would be unnecessary.

Yeah, for an actual "walk-in" business establishment, such as a retail pet store, I think it is warranted. I think USDA and similar officials need to be better educated on proper reptile husbandry to enforce some of this stuff. But when it comes to online vendors, etc....you're talking about the govt coming into peoples' homes and deciding what THEY think is best for the animals, when 90% of the time, we know more than they do. So in a realistic sense, I would have to whole-heartedly disagree with your opinion.

[millertime89]

^Excellent point. I maintain there needs to be a licensing, fee, and approval process for keeping of large snakes, monitors, and other species that are more demanding. Baby Croc monitors are cute. They're not so cute when they sink their teeth into your hand or gouge your head open with their talons.

[Kratos]

Say I'm a tortoise breeder. Anyone who keeps a large number of any herp can attest that it is a chore to keep up with it all to ensure every animal stays healthy, enclosures look fairly clean, water bowls always have fresh clean water, etc. Its hard enough with a collection of snakes, animals that typically only eat and defecate on a weekly basis. The work load is increased dramatically for those who keep large numbers of lizards or chelonians.

Every morning, I get up and I know I have an inspection later that day for approval of my "license" to sell online, if you will. ON top of everything else, I am now stressed. This increases my chances of making an error, maybe I miss a cage that needs to be spot-cleaned, or I forget to clean-out a water bowl, etc. Even if I did, we all know that for many herps, a freshly cleaned and filled water bowl is a magnet for the reptile that has to poop. Invariably, as soon as the doorbell rings, 3 tortoises decide to use their water bowls for a latrine. The inspector sees a soiled water bowl and this affects his review. Now, any experienced keeper knows this is just part of day-to-day care and one turd in a water bowl is not the end of the world. But the inspector doesn't know that. Some of the cages don't have any food. The inspector doesn't understand that some of my animals are nocturnal and prefer to eat later in the day and it's actually wasteful for me to put food for them in the morning. Do you see where this is going?

.................................................. .................................................. ...




Which is true what you say and I couldnt agree more. What I should of said is if you breed and your place looks like that photo that was posted then you would get hit with the fines. I also agree with the fact that we the hobbist will know more than the goverment, so they will have to get people that know the diff between the animals and of course if the cage is clean with fresh poop thats fine. its when its dirty to the point that it not inhabitable and wrong living conditions.


But other than that it takes people like use to to try and keep our animals and animals of the future happy.

[Dehlida]

Ha! Get my head straight? Cheers, that one made me chuckle. The fact that you dont see the irony of it is perhaps the funniest part. I wonder how many of those monitors you saved by throwing a fit. I chose this particular thread to call you out, as I saw in the course of a few minutes that you had posted a number of responses that illustrated my point here. You are more interested in being right and wanting people to see that, than you are of helping others to find what is right and therefore actually helping the animals conditions.
I saved plenty, because the one in the store is still there, and it looks worse and worse. See, by scaring off people, and letting that single animal suffer and die slowly (which sucks but that's life), people see that the conditions are killing the animal, the store still has the animal, so won't order new (and haven't for over a month now). I saved plenty in my eyes, as opposed to helping someone, letting them buy it, educate them, only for the store to order 2-3 more and watch them suffer. The dieing animal is a poster child for what is WRONG to do with a monitor, and in the end will be more effective than teaching 1 person how to care for 1 dieing monitor.

If I am wrong then my apologies, your passion is commendable, and obviously I stand in the minority in this particular discussion. What I was trying to do is possibly bring to light that the way in which you attempt to interact with people in the wrong is usually less about them and more about you. That fit you threw in the store might have made you feel better about yourself, but did it have any effect on that pet store? Do you think it saved even one reptiles life? I doubt it. And by doing so, you closed the door on them ever listening to anything you had to say afterwards. Its not easy to convince pet store people that there are better ways. Actually changing a persons mind takes time, empathy, and finesse. Look at how difficult it is even here to change a persons mind, where we are all trying towards the same goal of better animal husbandry. Think of how much harder it is for a pet store employee who doesnt know you from a hole in the wall?
It isn't about them, or me, it's about the MONITOR. I could care less if someone thinks I'm right. I'm happier knowing someone is intimidated and too afraid to buy a monitor with me in the store in fear of being shanked on the way out. As I said before, I've tried the educational approach, complete with pictures and links to sites containing correct monitor care. I've told them who I am, where I go to school, what I have experience with, they don't care. Changing WONT make them money. As I said before, no one wants to buy the dieing monitor in the store, they see it's wrong, and won't purchase there. That animal suffers, but it saves more in the end.

Here in NYC there is a large chain of pet stores called Petland Discounts. They have most of the pet stores in the city. Each one, though all part of the chain, has different managers who treat the animals differently. The one by my house does an amazing job, and it shows in the health of the reptiles. The manager is very open to learning more and we have had many good conversations about how to make things better. She does care about the animals, and hires people who do as well.
So your chain cares, mine doesn't. I've gone all the way up to headquarters the "correct" way and gotten nowhere. They buy from puppy mills and leave sick animals on display. You think their mall location doesn't scream "money"?

I have another of the same pet store chain close to work that treats its animals appallingly. The manager there is not so amenable to change. What I found is that by taking a few minutes with individual workers there I have been able to slowly change some of the ways they in turn interact with the animals and any possible buyers. Again, not in a "youre an idiot and youre killing your animals" kind of way, but more in a "here is something interesting about this animal" guidance to the point. There is a still a long way to go, and there are still some truly awful tanks there with animals still dying. However, I can at least see some progress, and see every indication that I am getting through, however slowly. Because on some level, they value the animals, this one does not.

If the point is to actually make a difference in the lives of the animals, then lets look realistically at which path might get us to that goal. There are many simple and inexpensive ways to improve the lives of the animals in the care of pet stores. It may not be ideal in the end, but every bit helps.
I don't want to improve the single animals lives, or let other animals into the store to suffer. I don't want more animals in "somewhat improved conditions". My goal is to cut sales and leave them with a sick animal to where it's no longer profitable to have the animals there in the store. It works, I've watched it work, the other store in the other mall no longer carries monitors because of my strategy, and instead orders in more leopard geckos.

Im also well aware of the numbers of monitors that are imported into the country each year. However, the majority dont die in pet stores, they die with uninformed keepers. And the way you handle discourse isnt convincing many of them, Im afraid.
The majority of them die in shipping, many in pet stores, and then many shortly after because of pet store care/pet store information. How does the pet store make money if they just sell you the monitor? They want to sell you 4 heat lights, an aquarium, a heat pad, some bark, and some fancy water dishes while you're there. That is the strategy, that $25 profit on the lizard just became a couple hundred dollar profit from up selling. There would be no point in having the lizard if they said "ok now gold build a cage, get dirt from your back yard, and a big rubbermaid with water"..

By the way, SoR, there is a reason you havent heard that word in awhile. Its a severely racist term, and as a result is generally not used anymore by anyone with their 'head straight'
Times change, just like the word ******** can either mean mentally handicapped, or amazingly stupid. Mongoloid can be a racist term, or a term that says "idiot" in a bit better way. If you cant figure out the difference based on post context, than you are, rather stupid.

[StudentoReptile]

Times change, just like the word ******** can either mean mentally handicapped, or amazingly stupid. Mongoloid can be a racist term, or a term that says "idiot" in a bit better way. If you cant figure out the difference based on post context, than you are, rather stupid.

I understand different words have different meanings to different people, and thats fine. However, the terms "stupid" or "idiot" (as well as "moron," "dummy" etc.) have NEVER been associated with a particular race or ethnicity. They can pretty much be universally be applied to anyone on the planet without discrimination.

The same cannot be said for the word "mongoloid." Any reasonably intelligent person would see the difference. Perhaps you did not mean it in that context, but it doesn't stop anyone from interpreting it as such. Just saying...

Sounds to me like you're just trying to rationalize using a racial slur. I would suggest you look up the origin of the word and its history before you choose to use it again.

[Dehlida]

I understand different words have different meanings to different people, and thats fine. However, the terms "stupid" or "idiot" (as well as "moron," "dummy" etc.) have NEVER been associated with a particular race or ethnicity. They can pretty much be universally be applied to anyone on the planet without discrimination.

The same cannot be said for the word "mongoloid." Any reasonably intelligent person would see the difference. Perhaps you did not mean it in that context, but it doesn't stop anyone from interpreting it as such. Just saying...

Sounds to me like you're just trying to rationalize using a racial slur. I would suggest you look up the origin of the word and its history before you choose to use it again.
I do know the origin, I just don't care? You say dumb, like it's nothing, without realizing mute people are also "dumb" in the literal sense of the other meaning of the word, you don't see people crying about that one do you? ****** is more accepted, but insults mentally handicapped people. There are common place words that have more than 1 meaning. I will still use the word mongoloid, because in every sense that I use it- it's clearly in the context of calling someone stupid. People with poor reading comprehensions probably shouldn't read my posts at all, and I'm far from concerned with someone being offended with the alternate meaning of words I use.

I'm not trying to rationalize anything, I've been using it as a derogatory term for idiot longer than I've known the real definition. Racism is stupid, and people who cry about it- are stupid.

[millertime89]

In this day and age where "everybody" is concerned with being PC, those of us that don't give a rat's arse must follow suit despite our personal objections.

edit: re**** is one of my personal pet peeves. I've threatened to ban people from FB groups for using it. My aunt had an aneurysm and she's now mentally handicapped. Its all about perspective unfortunately.

[StudentoReptile]

I'm not trying to rationalize anything, I've been using it as a derogatory term for idiot longer than I've known the real definition. Racism is stupid, and people who cry about it- are stupid.

Well...there ya go. :smug:

It's always nice to know where someone stands on a particular issue, and you have clearly demonstrated your position on racism.

[Terranaut]

Wow. So now I guess I am not reasonably intellegent. It happens. I have personaly never heard the mongoloid term used to mean anything orher that idiot/stupid. Damn. And here this whole time I was convinced I was ok.

Intent of racism and incorrect use of a term are not the same.
Lets end this.

[StudentoReptile]

I do know the origin, I just don't care? You say dumb, like it's nothing, without realizing mute people are also "dumb" in the literal sense of the other meaning of the word, you don't see people crying about that one do you? ****** is more accepted, but insults mentally handicapped people. There are common place words that have more than 1 meaning. I will still use the word mongoloid, because in every sense that I use it- it's clearly in the context of calling someone stupid. People with poor reading comprehensions probably shouldn't read my posts at all, and I'm far from concerned with someone being offended with the alternate meaning of words I use.

You know, I did anticipate you using that argument, and even considered bringing it up myself.

Things are always so easy and simple when you're in your own little world and don't really care. I may be a little presumptuous, but I imagine you don't use the term very often when in the presence of anyone of Asian descent. Nor would you drop the N-bomb around someone of African-American origin. Or use the term "******" around someone with autism. Or then again...maybe you do, because, that's right...you don't care.

[StudentoReptile]

Intent of racism and incorrect use of a term are not the same.

Very true. I agree. Its one thing if you simply were unaware. But...now you know.

Lets end this.

I concur.

[Dehlida]

You know, I did anticipate you using that argument, and even considered bringing it up myself.

Things are always so easy and simple when you're in your own little world and don't really care. I may be a little presumptuous, but I imagine you don't use the term very often when in the presence of anyone of Asian descent. Nor would you drop the N-bomb around someone of African-American origin. Or use the term "******" around someone with autism. Or then again...maybe you do, because, that's right...you don't care.

I called my black friend "nigga" all in high school. My fiance is part Japanese. I still use both terms, as both know it's not meant in a demeaning way, some people are just uptight crybabys.

[millertime89]

I called my black friend "nigga" all in high school. some people are just uptight crybabys.

werd, well not in highschool, but I've got a few black friends that I say it too. And they come back with equally "offensive" "white people" slurs. But we all know its in jest and don't get our panties in a wad.
I suppose there's some explanation for that saying as well. Probably directed at the women rights activists of the mid 20th century.

[Terranaut]

Maybe I should have the title of this thread changed to racist ,poor grammar,couldn't let it go savs at a pet store being in jest.
Might be more appropriate now.

[Kratos]

WOW what happend. I have poor grammar I will admit but its not the one with poor grammar that should be ashamed it should be the one who understands it and then says hay u spelled this wrong lol it cracks me up.

Back to the main subject :O_o:

[jarich]

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"

Abraham Lincoln

[Squirtle]

Here's a pretty sad video of a young kid housing his sav and bearded dragon together, maybe you guys can let him know that it's bad

New bearde dragon & savannah monitor setup - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4J1O3iqS0)

[infernalis]

I just did, but judging by this kid's reaction to the first negative comment, it's a waste of time.

[Dehlida]

This is why kids should never own monitors..

[mo9e64]

It's about the individual,why wouldn't a responsible kid not be able to raise an Ackie.

[infernalis]

It's about the individual,why wouldn't a responsible kid not be able to raise an Ackie.

A responsible kid with supportive parents.

I still have a lizard that was given to me by a responsible kid, his crap parents refused to back him up, so he decided that it would be better off here.

That young man earned my respect big time when he just showed up and asked if I would take his lizard, cage and all because his mom said she was tired of running after crickets and supplies.

[Dehlida]

It's about the individual,why wouldn't a responsible kid not be able to raise an Ackie.

Because of the commitment of an monitor, the long term, the requirements of even an ackie are far higher than most other captive reptiles. It will outlive the kids childhood, it will limit the kid on if he can go away to college without rehoming it/making someone else take responsibility. Monitors are a huge commitment, one that can't just be rehomed with extreme ease like a bearded dragon or a ball python.

Wait til you're grown for monitors, it's much better.

[infernalis]

Because of the commitment of an monitor, the long term, the requirements of even an ackie are far higher than most other captive reptiles. It will outlive the kids childhood, it will limit the kid on if he can go away to college without rehoming it/making someone else take responsibility. Monitors are a huge commitment, one that can't just be rehomed with extreme ease like a bearded dragon or a ball python.

Wait til you're grown for monitors, it's much better.

I have seen this play out more than once. Having been on some forum or another for as many years as I have, it's common reading.

This guy I knew had great parents (or oblivious) who didn't seem to mind a Savannah Monitor and a Nile monitor setup in their house.

The kid had them setup fairly decent too, but when he turned the correct age he got a shot at a university half way accross the country, his parents were unwilling to care for them for 2-4 years, and he could not take them to a dorm room that was smaller than the two cages put together.

No one knows how those lizards are doing anymore.

[Akuma223]

I'm 16 and I am nowhere near as stupid as this kid. I've done a ton of research and work hard to care for Amusei properly. When I move out of my house I will not get rid of my reptiles for any reason. They are my responsibility and I will care for them for their entire lives.

[Dehlida]

I'm 16 and I am nowhere near as stupid as this kid. I've done a ton of research and work hard to care for Amusei properly. When I move out of my house I will not get rid of my reptiles for any reason. They are my responsibility and I will care for them for their entire lives.

I said the same thing until something more important and pressing came along, trust me, easy to say at your age (and I did).