Upside down?

[Suess]

I'm kinda worried, I don't know what he's been up to, maybe just exploring.

But my Ball Python has been trying to 'climb' the lid of his tub. I noticed it yesterday and he was on the far side of his tub on the coldest part so I lowered the temp a tad but this morning he was on heated part and it was hardly noticeable to the touch so I turned it back to where it was. I know I need to leave it alone, I'm just still trying to figure out how to keep the temp at the right place.
Currently its between 75-80

But whats bothering me is when I opened his tub tonight to check everything inside, he was laying on his back on the hide log, I thought he was dead. The hide log pretty much touches the lid, so maybe he was exploring and got stuck or was just crawling upside down?
Or was he cooling on the condensation?

I googled some different things regarding belly up snakes and all I got either said they were dead or had IBD, so I'm worried. Idk if he'll eat since I just got him Sunday and shouldn't be offering food or handling him, but I'm worried that I'll wait too long to do something and he'll be dead. And a symptom of IBD was being lethargic...

Ideas? I'm really a bit paranoid about him..

[USMCgunner11]

First of all. Is your temp 75 on the cool side or the hot side? I keep my BP between 88 and 90 on the warm side and around low 80s on the cool side. Second, getting stuck on their back may be a sign of a neuro defect. Have you intentionally place him on his back to see if he could get out of it? If he gets stuck on his back, i'd contact the breeder if I were you

[Suess]

the probe is on the warm side above the heating pad sticking in the top of the lid. The thermometer is bellow it reading 75-80. So I'm guessing it needs to go up?
And I put him on his back three times in his tub and he flipped instantly. I held him upside down and he moved to be right side up

[USMCgunner11]

Might have been a fluke. My BP will invert slightly when exploring his enclosure. He goes straight up the wall and when he hits the ceiling he continues as far across as he possibly can until he loses his balance. I would keep an eye on him but def raises those temps. Are you also monitoring the temps on the cook end and the humidity?

[millertime89]

if he's got IBD, he's doomed anyways. It doesn't sound like it though since he's flipping himself when you flip him. Snakes do some weird things, I would just up the temp and keep an eye on him. I would encourage you to put that t-stat probe right on the heat mat so you know its not getting too hot. Air is a fantastic insulator so even thought the probe is reading 80, the pad might be 110F or higher which would explain why he was on the cold side. What substrate do you have him on?

[Suess]

Several breeders told me that the humidity could never be too much for him so I wasn't recommended to get a humidity gauge. His tub is certainly humid. But no I don't have a thermometer on the cool side. Its fairly warm and he has a wet rag that stays colder than anywhere else in the tub.
He was doing that yesterday, climbing the side until he lost balance.
I'm looking into getting a temp gun and we're supposed to go to petsmart this week to get him some frozen rats. I could pick up another thermometer then, do you think he could wait a few days for that?
How much is too hot for him?

[USMCgunner11]

Also, some herp vets will do a free check up on any new pets you acquire. Even if it's not free, it's always a good idea. I would def recommend it as a precautionary measure

[Suess]

if he's got IBD, he's doomed anyways. It doesn't sound like it though since he's flipping himself when you flip him. Snakes do some weird things, I would just up the temp and keep an eye on him. I would encourage you to put that t-stat probe right on the heat mat so you know its not getting too hot. Air is a fantastic insulator so even thought the probe is reading 80, the pad might be 110F or higher which would explain why he was on the cold side. What substrate do you have him on?

Thats what i'm worried about. But I'm glad to hear it doesn't sound like it. I'll deffinatly raise the temp, and I'll put the probe on the pad itself.
He has Eco-Earth coconut husk for his substrate

[USMCgunner11]

Several breeders told me that the humidity could never be too much for him so I wasn't recommended to get a humidity gauge. His tub is certainly humid. But no I don't have a thermometer on the cool side. Its fairly warm and he has a wet rag that stays colder than anywhere else in the tub.
He was doing that yesterday, climbing the side until he lost balance.
I'm looking into getting a temp gun and we're supposed to go to petsmart this week to get him some frozen rats. I could pick up another thermometer then, do you think he could wait a few days for that?
How much is too hot for him?

Disagree with the "too much humidity being ok." Too much of anything is bad. Too much water is bad even for humans for example. Get yourself a gauge and maintain around 50 to 60 percent. If you have everything set up correctly, you won't even need to mist.

Do not assume that more is better. A whole new set of health issues can arise

[Suess]

and I'll look into a vet.
With the probe though, my thermostat doesnt give a reading or numbers really. The thermometer is inside the tub, if the probe is on the pad, how will I know what the pad's reading is to know how to adjust it?

[millertime89]

def grab yourself a hygrometer and order a temp gun (Pro Exotics has a good one at a reasonable price that way you can check temps all over without worrying about where the gauge is at.

edit: and yes, too much humidity can be a bad thing.

[USMCgunner11]

Even if it's an analog thermostat it should still have an indicator light to show you that the heat source is "on." If it's "off," you have to ASSUME that it is at the desired temp, give or take a degree.

I got away from analog thermostats long ago and I would recommend you do the same. Well worth the investment.

The temp gun was a good recommendation, def follow through with that.

[Suess]

well all it has is a dial for hotter and colder, no numbers. And so far, since sunday, the light has not gone off

[millertime89]

Hydrofarm heat mat thermostats, 25-30 bucks, work great, I've got 3 of em and will be adding more. Seriously, awesome little digital t-stats for the price.

[USMCgunner11]

well all it has is a dial for hotter and colder, no numbers. And so far, since sunday, the light has not gone off

Unfortunately you are going to want something A LOT more precise than that. Those "hot" "cold" dials tell you practically nothing in regards to the actual temperature. Unless if you use a temp gun an mark off what temp is at what setting I wouldn't trust one of those.

I know you just spent some money on your new snake and the last thing you might want to do is go and spend a few more, but you really should. As Millertime said, you can get some quality thermostats for fairly cheap. I HIGHLY recommend you handle this ASAP.

[Suess]

Hydrofarm heat mat thermostats, 25-30 bucks, work great, I've got 3 of em and will be adding more. Seriously, awesome little digital t-stats for the price.

Do Watts matter? Will it be enough to get to 90?

Unfortunately you are going to want something A LOT more precise than that. Those "hot" "cold" dials tell you practically nothing in regards to the actual temperature. Unless if you use a temp gun an mark off what temp is at what setting I wouldn't trust one of those.

I know you just spent some money on your new snake and the last thing you might want to do is go and spend a few more, but you really should. As Millertime said, you can get some quality thermostats for fairly cheap. I HIGHLY recommend you handle this ASAP.

Okay, I'm just more annoyed that two breeders who had 9 and 10 foot Berm pythons showed us around to show me what I should get for my snake and I'm finding out I have to go spend more than I have to replace what I already have. But I'll check my bank account and see what I can do. (Just to clarify, I do have a vet reserve that I always keep a certain amount in, so I am prepared for vet visits)
But yeah, I'll be sure to get one of those hydrofarm ones if they'll work, and should I still get a temp gun?

[millertime89]

Do Watts matter? Will it be enough to get to 90?



Okay, I'm just more annoyed that two breeders who had 9 and 10 foot Berm pythons showed us around to show me what I should get for my snake and I'm finding out I have to go spend more than I have to replace what I already have. But I'll check my bank account and see what I can do. (Just to clarify, I do have a vet reserve that I always keep a certain amount in, so I am prepared for vet visits)
But yeah, I'll be sure to get one of those hydrofarm ones if they'll work, and should I still get a temp gun?

Wattage on the t-stat? No, its sufficient to run 4 strips of flexwatt and get them all to 100 (I've tested this personally).
You'll find that people are stupid, keepers included. Just because they keep snakes doesn't mean they're doing it right.
I would def still get a temp gun. Its not required, but it's really nice to have one. Makes it so the only in-tank gauge you need is the hygrometer.

[mykee]

Don't waste your money on a vet visit. Most vets know NOTHING about reptiles, adn I'm fairly positive it'll be like throwing money in the garbage. IBD in ball pythons is EXREMELY rare, like REALLY rare, so don't overworry about it. I can almost give you a 100% guarantee that you don't have IBD.

[shaunyboy]

i agree with Mykee on this

also....

there are a lot more symptoms to IBD than a snake being upside down,or star gazing

other symptoms in boa's
unable to right itself,paralysis,inability to strike and constrict,severe weight loss,chronic reguratation,respiritory infections

other symptoms in pythons
severe weight loss,repiritory infection,mouth rot,exagerated reflexes,lack of cordination and loss of motor coordination

what the op is describing imo is NOTHING to do with IBD

imo your worrying too much mate (i'm not being cheeky)

cheers shaun