Goliath - new beardie

[Will0W783]

Man, I need to start going into my friend's pet store with blinders on, lol. It's been about a month since Karma the emaciated blood python was left outside his door and came home with me, and once again I have a rescue case.

My fiance and I stopped in on Sunday to get our weekly supply of crickets for the geckos, and I noticed a massively chunky beardie that hadn't been there last week. I commented on how big he was, and Dave gave me the back story. The dragon is less than a year old- he was born August 2011, and had been dropped off 3 days earlier at the store because the owners were moving and couldn't take him. He is fat, fat FAT. Beardies are not slender lizards, but this fellow has bulldog jowls and rolls behind his legs. He is a sweetie though, and sat on my shoulder and ate some kale from my hands. Needless to say I fell in love with him, and brought him home. We named him Goliath because of his size.

I know he needs a healthier diet and a bit of weight control, but I'm a bit unsure how best to help him get to a healthier weight. I'm concerned because at less than a year old, he's already as large as breeder males I've seen at expos. He's huge- he had to have been powerfed, and I'm hoping no permanent damage was done.

He is set up in a 40-gallon Critter Cage (larger footprint than fish tank, with sliding glass doors and two screen tops), with a basking area of 103, a hot end in the 90s and a cool end in the high 80s. He has a Repti-UVB 10.0 bulb and calcium sand substrate.

My plan for him dietwise is to give him a good salad of greens and veggies every 3 days, along with 2 dozen crickets a week, dusted with calcium. I will give him mealworms (his favorite) as a treat, and when the hissing roach babies I had are a bit bigger he can have some of those as well.

How does this sound to the beardie experts on the forum? This is my second beardie- the first was my ex's and I took over his care when we separated. I had that one for about 2 years, and he was great.

I welcome any suggestions or ideas for helping Goliath be the healthiest he can be. He's in shed right now, but appears to have a lot of orange around his eyes, so I can't wait to see his true colors- I think he'll be a very handsome dragon!

Here he is:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/b43b5617.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/9402d02d.jpg

[SpOoKy]

with a basking area of 103, a hot end in the 90s and a cool end in the high 80s. He has a Repti-UVB 10.0 bulb and calcium sand substrate.

I would lower the cool end basking a little. i keep my cool end low 80's during the day and mine frequently use it.

Also get rid of the Calcium sand completely!!!
This is the worst to use. If you want to use sand substrate then washed playsand works well.
personally I would set him up on paper towels for a week or two so you can observe his poops and also see what type of eater he is. If he is pretty good at hitting the crickets without touching too much floor you can probably use a loose substrate. If he is a not so precision eater, stick to something like tiles that can be easily cleaned and not ingested.

My plan for him dietwise is to give him a good salad of greens and veggies every 3 days, along with 2 dozen crickets a week, dusted with calcium.

I offer up veggies every single day. They provide water for him also. Sometimes they get eaten everyday, sometimes not but it is good to always have it in there for them to choose.

[SpOoKy]

Oh and he is a cutie, congratulations :)

He doesn't look to fat to me, can you post more pics of him from other angles?

[Will0W783]

Thanks Spooky - I will switch to washed play sand. I was afraid to use that because I thought it could cause impaction.

Yes I will post more pics of him- he doesn't look too fat in those two pics...he is kind of flabby around the middle and jowls though...Dave told me he needed to lose weight. Maybe he's fine though?

[SpOoKy]

I was afraid to use that because I thought it could cause impaction.

The calci sand will cause impaction way before the washed play sand.
Personally I keep mine on a mix of play sand and soil. Be sure to watch him catching crickets though. Mine have great aim and pick up very little substrate but i have seen beardies who get mouthfuls with every bug. If yours does this you may be better using a solid floor of some type.

[Will0W783]

Ok. I can probably get play sand at Home Depot. He has pretty good aim- he was eating crickets and mealworms off my hand at the pet store and nabbing them up without missing at all. How about ground English walnut shells? Is that a good substrate?

[SpOoKy]

No I don't suggest that either. Unfortunately all the substrates that are "designed" for bearded dragons are actually the worst for them. The Walnut Shells are larger shaper shapes that will impact him as well. Washed play sand will be best and yes it is at home depot, a few bucks for a bag.

I have had mine pick up substrate while eating. Impaction is a captive problem. As long as you provide proper basking spot he should be fine.

[Bradyloach]

i LOVE tiles :D

[Valvaren]

He really doesn't look fat at all. Some dragons just develop that saggy spot under their beards as they age, I've seen it more in females though.

As stated calcium sand is the worst and if you absolutely have to use a lose substrate go with play sand. Tile is the easiest and safest and you can do so much with it.

Other then that I echo what Spooky has said.

[Will0W783]

Ok thanks guys. It's been a long time since I had a beardie, so I'm trying to do everything right. Is it bad that he's full grown after 9 months? Should he have the sagginess in less than a year?

I am pretty sure that he's a male- I saw the hemipenal bulges, although I am not good at sexing lizards. I was also told he is a male, but I'll try to post some cloacal pictures as well as a few others.

It'll be great if I don't have to worry about him losing weight. I'll bump up to offering greens and veggies every day...which veggies are the best? Same ones as iguanas like- squash, carrots, kale, collard?

[Valvaren]

Some dragons do grow a lot fast then others, I would see dragons fed on the same regiment as Thil who were twice her size at the same age, it really just varies. I know Thil was pretty much full grown at 7-8 months that is when I got her out of her 40 gallon cause it wasn't big enough.

Its kind of hard I find to sex them without really being able to see it in person imo.

Also great site for nutrition Nutrition Content (http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html)

[Will0W783]

Awesome..thanks Valvaren!

[SpOoKy]

Hopefully this works...

Female 1 bump
Male 2 bumps.

[SpOoKy]

Be sure you don't pull the tail up too hard when checking, you can hurt them.

[Will0W783]

Thanks, I'll check when I get home. I'll also get some different substrate tonight.

[Will0W783]

I took some more pictures of Goliath when I got home, so hopefully you guys can see his body weight a bit better. He has a nice salad of finely chopped collard greens, kale and yellow squash for the night.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/326927be.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/79d2c2cf.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/c791e271.jpg

[Valvaren]

k yeah he is a bit fat haha, I've never seen one look so balloon like :\ Thil is fat but her back is flat :| I hope he slims down for you!

[jaleely]

Yeah with the first pics i was like "hey, not fat!" but yeah those last ones he'll be embarrassed about some day ;)
Even the skin looks tight! poor thing. Poor cute, fat thing *lol*

[SpOoKy]

He has a nice salad of finely chopped collard greens, kale and yellow squash for the night.

This is a good salad but you may want to feed him in the morning. If you do feed at night be sure that he has at least an hour of basking before lights out. This ensures that the food will not sit and rot in his belly :)

[Will0W783]

Ok thanks Spooky- I will switch to feeding in the morning. It was pretty much all still there when I turned his lights on, so I removed the few wilted pieces and left him. He did eat all his crickets though.

I wish I'd thought to bring my camera down to the reptile room this morning...Goliath was lying on his basking log with his legs kicked back to sleep- he's too fat to actually lie down without kicking his legs to the sides like a pitbull. Poor thing. :-/

How often should I be feeding him if I want him to slim down a bit? I know normal diet is every day, but would it hurt him to get two dozen crickets a week, plus salad every 2-3 days?

[Will0W783]

I looked at Goliath's tail tonight, and it looks more like the female tail, but the tail is so engorged with fat that it's really hard to tell. I'll try to get a picture, but he/she was really skittish.

[SpOoKy]

I would still feed veggies everyday. That food source isn't going to pack on pounds. Goliath is probably still trying to settle in. I wouldn't worry about sex too much right now, just get him use to being somewhere new. You could try upping the basking spot temp a little more for metabolism. If you do this though, be sure that he/she still has a spot where he can lay at regular basking temps if needed. One of my breardies sits at the hotter temps where the other sits at lower than normal basking temps. Always good to give them an option, some don't want/need higher or lower temps then the ones we feel are right for them.

Sounds like he is settling in though, you are reallt going to enjoy him :)

p.s. as always, throw up any pics you get :)

[Will0W783]

Thanks Spooky! I appreciate all the help. :)