New Centralian Carpet Python/ Mites!

[charlesc84]

Hey guys I just picked up a baby male Centralian Carpet Python from LLL Reptile at the White Plains expo on Sunday. Anyway, great looking snake, appeared healthy... Problem is about 2 hours ago I noticed 2 mites. I took them off the snake, but now whats the next step? I'm annoyed because the tank and substrate are brand new, and I cleaned everything else. I'm thinking I should replace the substrate, soak the snake in lukewarm water, and clean the whole tank, but beyond that does anyone have advice? I want this problem taken care of asap.
All help is appreciated!!!

[Terranaut]

If you can buy prevent a mite do it and follow the instructions. If not get a head lice product called Nix. The two have the same active ingredient. If you get Nix google how to use it. Good luck. Those little bastards are not fun.

[charlesc84]

Under the snakes neck (where it starts to thin out) the scales lift a bit in some spots and theres black under them. I think thats the mites... I'm thinking of calling a reptile vet tomorrow. It seems like a pretty bad case if I'm right, also the snake is very docile but doesn't like when I touch the head or neck area. If it comes down to it, I guess I can just get the nix and the snake will have to deal with it.

[Terranaut]

Under the snakes neck (where it starts to thin out) the scales lift a bit in some spots and theres black under them. I think thats the mites... I'm thinking of calling a reptile vet tomorrow. It seems like a pretty bad case if I'm right, also the snake is very docile but doesn't like when I touch the head or neck area. If it comes down to it, I guess I can just get the nix and the snake will have to deal with it.
Save your vet money. Just use the nix. You pour the small bottle of Nix (its a cream rinse for head lice) into a 4L jug of distilled water and shake the hell outa it!! spray it all over the viv with the snake out (remove and toss your substrate its not worth keeping use paper towel for the next few weeks). While your waiting for it to dry soak your snake in the same spray. Do not worry about it getting in the snakes eyes, nose or heat pits. I mean don't drown the poor little guy but those are places mites hide so you need to get it in there. No water dish for 24 hrs and if you see the snake in there for the next few days after that,change the water out right away. Then in about 2 weeks do it all again. Sounds like a pain in the but ,but this will work. It will work the first time as long as 2 weeks from now you repeat even if you do not see mites. Anything in the tank like plants or anything can be washed in the same stuff or baked at 250f for 20 min. If you do this a month from now you will be glad you did , if not you will be trying to order Prevent a mite. I had an epic battle with these but won. Good luck and remember they walk from cage to cage so if you have this new sanke in quarentine like you should then treat some of the room around the viv as well and don't touch your other herps without a thorough wash.
Good luck !!!

[charlesc84]

I'm gonna pick up the nix before work tomorrow... Do supermarkets or K mart have it? Thanks for your help btw. Next time I get a reptile I'll quarantine it before putting it in a complete set up.

[shaunyboy]

Under the snakes neck (where it starts to thin out) the scales lift a bit in some spots and theres black under them. I think thats the mites... I'm thinking of calling a reptile vet tomorrow. It seems like a pretty bad case if I'm right, also the snake is very docile but doesn't like when I touch the head or neck area. If it comes down to it, I guess I can just get the nix and the snake will have to deal with it.

PROVENT A MITE

get a can of provent a mite,that will sort your mite problem out

imo,no snake likes its head touched mate

main thing is not to worry as mites are very easily dealt with

that said,its a DISGRACE that a breeder would sell,a mite infested snake at a show,terrible husbandry on the breeders part:no:

cheers shaun

[AaronRiot]

Nix, in Canada at least, is sold from behind the drugstore counter. It's cheap, might as well grab the 2pack in case the first round misses some.

Allow the animal a soak in non-medicated water first in case it needs a drink... dont want it drinking the meds.


I got my first snake in many years recently, and it came with mites as well (I missed them after a quick cursory check). It blows my mind how people can sell infested/sick animals.

Have you confronted the seller?

[UwabamiReptiles]

I use Nix and have had good results with it. A lot of people swear by Prevent-o-mite too. Both seem to work very well. I would get him paper towels so you can monitor how many mites are there and whatnot.

[shaunyboy]

I use Nix and have had good results with it. A lot of people swear by Prevent-o-mite too. Both seem to work very well. I would get him paper towels so you can monitor how many mites are there and whatnot.

with provent a mite there is.....

NO need for repeat treatments,its always worked first time everytime,for me and the other people i know who used it

NO need to apply chemicals (nix) DIRECTLY on to the snake

the above are the reasons i preffer to use provent a mite above ALL other mite treatments

cheers shaun

[Terranaut]

PAM is not available everywhere like Nix. Sometimes if you want to treat today instead of waiting a few days/weeks before your mail order comes in almost every drug store has Nix.
I did buy PAM after treating with Nix but had I waited the infestation could have been bad.
I wish I had saved my money. Both products use the same active ingredient so I find it hard to understand how one could be better than the other. PAM is easier to use in the nice spray can but you get 4L of Nix at a fraction of the price.
BOTH work. I personaly prefer Nix but I did recomend PAM first for ease of use.

[shaunyboy]

PAM is not available everywhere like Nix. Sometimes if you want to treat today instead of waiting a few days/weeks before your mail order comes in almost every drug store has Nix.
I did buy PAM after treating with Nix but had I waited the infestation could have been bad.
I wish I had saved my money. Both products use the same active ingredient so I find it hard to understand how one could be better than the other. PAM is easier to use in the nice spray can but you get 4L of Nix at a fraction of the price.
BOTH work. I personaly prefer Nix but I did recomend PAM first for ease of use.

i wasn't having a go at anyone using Nix mate (sorry if it came across that way)

i just don't like anything that involves,putting chemicals DIRECTLY on a snake

also i don't like having to repeat treatments,when theres an alternative that needs only 1 treatment

i understand BOTH treatments use the same active ingredient,i just preffer provent a mite's delivery system

cheers shaun

[charlesc84]

I just call LLL Reptile and let them know what happened. They were nice on the phone though. They said try POM and Reptile Relief. I'm gonna head to a pet store and drug store right now actually... I'll look for Nix and and POM whichever I find first I'll use. Thanks for the help guys I"ll keep you posted on how it goes.

[Terranaut]

i wasn't having a go at anyone using Nix mate (sorry if it came across that way)

i just don't like anything that involves,putting chemicals DIRECTLY on a snake

also i don't like having to repeat treatments,when theres an alternative that needs only 1 treatment

i understand BOTH treatments use the same active ingredient,i just preffer provent a mite's delivery system

cheers shaun

I'm sorry. Didn't mean to sound "that way" either at all.
In Canada PAM is very expensive and hard to find. It uses exactly the same active ingredient as Nix. If you have huge collections having 4l to use is great. The shelf life is supposed to be a year but it only lasts a few months before its just soap. So from my point of view I think 180 ml of PAM at $44 is not as good as 4l of Nix at $13.
Now I know the op is not Canadian but he may not have been able to find PAM today but Nix is everywhere. Considering it sounds like the snake is covered I would think to treat today and treat the snake dirrectly as it has to be suffering from this too.
Again I too was not having a go at you or PAM just IMHO for me and for this situation I feel Nix the better choice and I have used both.
Cheers!! :)

[shaunyboy]

i agree PAM is expensive £28 ($42) per can

that said a can does go a long way

i'm lucky i've only ever had 2 occasions,where snakes i bought had mites

the provent a mite is also good for using as a preventative measure

i spray All my quarantine tanks 24 hours before the new snakes/snakes arrive

also when treating a complete collection,i find its easier to spray tanks,rather than treat each individual snake

what i'm saying is i'm lazy,i think ? :laugh:

cheers shaun

[charlesc84]

They had a small bottle of Reptile Relief spray for 8 bucks at the pet store so I got that. When I get home from work tonight I'm gonna try it. Here's 2 pics. On the second pic the saturation is increased a bit to show the red.

[Terranaut]

Nice looking snake. The stuff you bought will not kill mites in the viv. Get one of the 2 we recomended. Do it soon.

[charlesc84]

Oh ok. The bottle says that it will, but I'll get one of the others to.

[shaunyboy]

good looking wee bredl you got there mate

as said don't believe what it says on the stuff you bought,it won't kill mites

cheers shaun

[Terranaut]

Yeah that stuff would only kill a mite if it drown in it.

[AaronRiot]

Nix or PAM.

And to add my two cents, I prefer Nix bc it is local to buy and because it is not so toxic it can harm my animal if diluted. With PAM you have to air out the cage as direct contact can be harmful.

Both work. The pet store stuff does not.





So, you called the breeder/shop and all they had to say was "sorry to hear we gave you mites go buy some xxxxx"?? Or something along those lines??

[jaleely]

i'm sorry you have to deal with this! the poor snake :( I'm glad the little guy has you though, who actually cares enough to help him out! he is SO CUTE lol aww! good luck and let us know!

[UwabamiReptiles]

No worries shaun, PAM is used by a lot of people and it works for them. I have used Nix the two times I've had to and never had an issue. I don't spray the snake though. I put the snake in a quarantine tub with paper towels as substrate. I spray the paper towel, wait about 10-15 minutes then put the snake in. So I dont spray the snake directly. It is chemicals though, so I can understand where some people wouldn't want to use the Nix. I personally think if you use the Nix correctly, it is a good route to go. Whatever you use, as long as the snake gets rid of the mites and gets back to being healthy, thats really all that matters. Either one will do the job.

[UwabamiReptiles]

And thats a good looking Bredli man, hope you get the mite situation taken care of soon. They can get bad real fast.

[charlesc84]

Hey guys, I couldn't find nix so I picked up Rid. It seems like it's the same thing. Any thoughts?

[Terranaut]

Never heard of it so my instructions are void :) I have no idea about the active ingredients or the concentration. Sorry :(

[AaronRiot]

RID® Lice Killing Shampoo
Active ingredients
Piperonyl butoxide (4%). Lice treatment
Pyrethrum extract (equivalent to 0.33% pyrethrins). Lice treatment

NIX®
Permethrin
LICE TREATMENT

Drug Facts

Active ingredient (in each fluid ounce) Purpose

Permethrin 280 mg (1%).......................Lice treatment



IT LOOKS TO BE SIMILAR -AND- DIFFERENT THAN THE NIX

[charlesc84]

Well I'm about to start cleaning everything. If I don't find the Nix I'll order the PAM... Hopefully the RID does the trick though. I'll clean the tank out really well and make sure its spotless before putting the snake back in.

[charlesc84]

Ok so I just finished. I wiped the snake down and sprayed with reptile relief, then I put him in a critter keeper with a paper towel soaked in reptile relief. While he was in there I cleaned out the whole tank... I cleaned the tank out with the relief spray, then I cleaned it with the Rid shampoo, I diluted it a lot though. I thoroughly cleaned the water dish, branch and even the thermometer.
Now he's back in the tank. I have him on paper towels and his new hide is the box from the light clamp haha. So, I'll get Nix and POA, but when do I do this again? I figure 3 weeks or so. In the mean time I hope I don't see anymore mites. Thanks for the help guys, I'll keep you posted.

[Terranaut]

Tomorrow. Check the paper towel for dead mites. If they are there great if not... Rid didn't work. Also check out your snakes chin grove heat pits and vent for mites. If these things are dying wait 12-14 days and repeat. If not treat with Nix or Pam asap.

[charlesc84]

I'm gonna try to find Nix tomorrow, I'm also gonna order PAM. I might as well just use both. I forgot to mention that I cleaned off the snake in a container of water, I found some dead mites in there. I just realized I called PAM "POA".:wacky: Well I'm exhausted and ready for bed.

[shaunyboy]

I'm gonna try to find Nix tomorrow, I'm also gonna order PAM. I might as well just use both. I forgot to mention that I cleaned off the snake in a container of water, I found some dead mites in there. I just realized I called PAM "POA".:wacky: Well I'm exhausted and ready for bed.

i personally would NOT use both treatments at the same time mate

one or the other would be sufficiant

over exposure to chemicals,can cause neurological issues and even death,so be carefull not to over do the chemicals mate

always make sure the water bowl is removed and washed with hot soapy water during mite treatments (do not treat the bowl)

cheeers shaun

[AaronRiot]

^agreed. Give what you used a chance to work. If the mites are dying that's excellent news. With that being said, keep a close eye, if the bugs stick it out try the next option.

Maybe I missed a post but did you dilute the RID?

[charlesc84]

i personally would NOT use both treatments at the same time mate

one or the other would be sufficiant

over exposure to chemicals,can cause neurological issues and even death,so be carefull not to over do the chemicals mate

always make sure the water bowl is removed and washed with hot soapy water during mite treatments (do not treat the bowl)

cheeers shaun

I agree I meant for tank though, not actually on the snake or simultaneously. Plus, I'd rather have both just in case. I was paranoid just using the spray.

^agreed. Give what you used a chance to work. If the mites are dying that's excellent news. With that being said, keep a close eye, if the bugs stick it out try the next option.

Maybe I missed a post but did you dilute the RID?

So far I haven't seen any today. But ya, the RID was heavily diluted.

[charlesc84]

Dammit. Just spotted a small one. Any ideas on step 2? When I get home from work I'm really gonna try and figure this out.

[Terranaut]

I too think using both treatments could be harmful. Either work it's all about what you find first. If you have dead ones on the paper towel wait! Sure you want to kill them but be aware the stuff that kills the mites kills reptiles too. It just takes more because of body size. Some people have killed their snakes by spraying PAM onto them so be careful but still be aggressive about it.

[charlesc84]

So when I put the spray on him, how much should i have used? I sprayed some on his back, for the underside I rubbed it on lightly with a paper towel. Should I be more liberal with it? The bottle says to wait 3 days before applying again. Stick with that?

[Terranaut]

Again I have not used Rid and the ingredients are not the same nor is the concentration so you are in uncharted territory here.

[charlesc84]

Again I have not used Rid and the ingredients are not the same nor is the concentration so you are in uncharted territory here.

I meant the reptile relief. I'm gonna head over to another supermarket in a bit to find the Nix. If I can't then tomorrow I'm gonna PAM.

[charlesc84]

Maybe I'm in the wrong for saying this, but I'm starting to think that LLL should send me the mite sprays free of charge. Should I tell them that?

[KORBIN5895]

Maybe I'm in the wrong for saying this, but I'm starting to think that LLL should send me the mite sprays free of charge. Should I tell them that?

Yes they should. Be back with a link to rid.

[Terranaut]

Its already on page 2

[KORBIN5895]

Here is a link (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/88849-got-mites-i-do-help.html) that talks about rid.



I treated my snakes every other day for 8 days when I had mites. Spray the nix ( rid) liberally on your snake. Also make sure your snake is well hydrated. I put mine in the tub for twenty minuets before each treatment.

[charlesc84]

I'm getting increasingly frustrated with this whole thing. The snake is also breathing with with its mouth opened and rubbing its nose on everything. :angry: Humidity is 30 right now.
On the bright side I do see some dead mites on the paper towels.

[charlesc84]

Here is a link (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/88849-got-mites-i-do-help.html) that talks about rid.



I treated my snakes every other day for 8 days when I had mites. Spray the nix ( rid) liberally on your snake. Also make sure your snake is well hydrated. I put mine in the tub for twenty minuets before each treatment.

Just sent through that thread. I'll be ordering PAM. It seems RID is the same thing but mine doesn't come in a spray can. Now what about the possible RI?

[AaronRiot]

One step at a time. :)

It's great that you are going out of your way for the little guy but too much will be worse than a few mites.

Give it a week, let the animal recoup from the chems.

In the meantime get the Nix or PAM and have it ready for a future assault if needed.

Also in the meantime, if I were you, I'd have a number of choice words for LLL. Also, personally, I'd make sure they paid for the meds I required to nurse my animal back to health. That is, if you are positive that the accusation is warranted and that they did in fact come from LLL.

Anyone have an opinion on the gaping?


EDIT - IF RID AND PAM ARE IDENTICAL YOUR ANIMAL NEEDS TO BE SOAKED, PAM IS NOT TO BE SPRAYED ON THE INFESTED ANIMAL. This may be the cause of the gaping?

[charlesc84]

One step at a time. :)

It's great that you are going out of your way for the little guy but too much will be worse than a few mites.

Give it a week, let the animal recoup from the chems.

In the meantime get the Nix or PAM and have it ready for a future assault if needed.

Also in the meantime, if I were you, I'd have a number of choice words for LLL. Also, personally, I'd make sure they paid for the meds I required to nurse my animal back to health. That is, if you are positive that the accusation is warranted and that they did in fact come from LLL.

Anyone have an opinion on the gaping?


EDIT - IF RID AND PAM ARE IDENTICAL YOUR ANIMAL NEEDS TO BE SOAKED, PAM IS NOT TO BE SPRAYED ON THE INFESTED ANIMAL. This may be the cause of the gaping?

I didn't put the RID on him. I sprayed Reptile Relief on him and used RID on the enclosure. I think on the second page I posted everything I did.

But I'll follow your advice for now. I'll give the snake some time to calm down, then in a week I'll retreat him for the mites.

Tomorrow I'll be contacting them again. Believe me, I am absolutely positive the snake came with this stuff. At the expo, he seemed fine, but he was in a container and didn't seem unusual until the trip back to my house. He was rubbing his jaw/neck on everything and opening his mouth a lot. He did eat some fuzzies though so I thought it was nothing. Next morning, I spotted the mites.

[KORBIN5895]

Sorry for the bad instructions. I didn't read the thread before I linked it and thought that risk and biz were the same stuff. I used nix to get rid of the mites my snakes had.

[shaunyboy]

I agree I meant for tank though, not actually on the snake or simultaneously. Plus, I'd rather have both just in case. I was paranoid just using the spray.
.


i can vouch for the spray working FIRST time EVERY time mate

the PAM spray REMAINS ACTIVE for 30 days

thats why i would NOT use anything else at the same time

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

I meant the reptile relief. I'm gonna head over to another supermarket in a bit to find the Nix. If I can't then tomorrow I'm gonna PAM.


reptile relief and mite off,are 2 products that don't work mate

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Anyone have an opinion on the gaping?


EDIT - IF RID AND PAM ARE IDENTICAL YOUR ANIMAL NEEDS TO BE SOAKED, PAM IS NOT TO BE SPRAYED ON THE INFESTED ANIMAL. This may be the cause of the gaping?

i agree the chemicals could well be the reason for the gaping

personally i would.....

wash the tank out with hot soapy water

bath the snake

and wait for pam or nix

imo its too much of a coincedence,the snakes started gaping after being exposed to chemicals

cheers shaun

[charlesc84]

Well I can't find Nix anywhere, I'm sold on the PAM. Will be ordering some this weekend.

So when I get it should I just forget using the Reptile Relief again?

[AaronRiot]

use nothing for now, be patient, and read through as many mite threads on here as you can while you wait. by the time you get the PAM you will know exactly what to do.

the time will allow your animal to recoup from all the chems.

i would suggest if anything a bath and airing out your enclosure especially if it has a strong smell to it from the RID.

[shaunyboy]

Well I can't find Nix anywhere, I'm sold on the PAM. Will be ordering some this weekend.

So when I get it should I just forget using the Reptile Relief again?

yes mate forget reptile relief

when using provent a mite.....

DO NOT AT ANYTIME SPRAY A SNAKE WITH PROVENT A MITE.....!!!

1.put snake and water bowl into a different room,from where your treating the tank and tank contents

2.take out and spray all the vivarium contents

3.spray the whole inside of vivarium

4.put fresh substrate into tank and spray it as well

5.leave a window open in the room your spraying in for ventalation

6.leave treated tank and contents for " 2 hours " to allow the fumes to disapate

7.after " 2 hours ",put tank contents back into tank

8.wash water bowl with hot soapy water

9.return snake and fresh filled UNTREATED,water bowl back into tank

10.job done mites dead,the spray REMAINS ACTIVE FOR 30 DAYS

if you have other snakes in your collection,treat them all as above,at the same time

DO NOT AT ANYTIME SPRAY A SNAKE WITH PROVENT A MITE.....!!!

cheers shaun

[Terranaut]

And like it says above....

DO NOT AT ANYTIME SPRAY A SNAKE WITH PROVENT A MITE.....!!!

[charlesc84]

Got it, thanks guys. I'll keep you posted.

[millertime89]

I can't believe LLL would sell you a snake with mites then not do anything more than say "Buy PAM". They just lost a lot of respect from me.

[charlesc84]

Here's an updates: LLL sent me a free bottle of Mite Off. Apparently PAM is illegal in NYC so they wouldn't send it to me. I'm gonna treat the snake again now. Also, it still opens its mouth a lot when it breathes. Not sure if that's a big deal or not.

[Terranaut]

Well it's not normal. He may have mites in his mouth or mouth rot or a respiratory infection. Your fast approaching time for a vet.

[charlesc84]

I treated the snake again last night. He's been sitting with his head raised, I've read thats a sign of respiratory infection. Ugh. This whole situation is becoming increasingly frustrating.

[jaleely]

: ( i think it's time for the vet, then. I'm sorry it's so frustrating! It's really good that you're taking good care of the snake though. It'll get better, and with some antibiotics will be good and healthy. I'm sorry though!

[Becky Goings]

If you have a Rite Aid near you, we all sell Nix. The rite aid version is just called permethrin lotion (or shampoo) 1%. Good luck!

[charlesc84]

: ( i think it's time for the vet, then. I'm sorry it's so frustrating! It's really good that you're taking good care of the snake though. It'll get better, and with some antibiotics will be good and healthy. I'm sorry though!

Around how much will this cost?

If you have a Rite Aid near you, we all sell Nix. The rite aid version is just called permethrin lotion (or shampoo) 1%. Good luck!

I'll give it a shot, thanks.

[shaunyboy]

Here's an updates: LLL sent me a free bottle of Mite Off. Apparently PAM is illegal in NYC so they wouldn't send it to me. I'm gonna treat the snake again now. Also, it still opens its mouth a lot when it breathes. Not sure if that's a big deal or not.

mite off is well known in the snake community for being USELESS mate

it does NOT kill mites i'm afraid

cheers shaun

[Terranaut]

Well how are you making out ??
Update please???

[charlesc84]

Well how are you making out ??
Update please???

So far not as good as I would like. As predicted, the mite stuff I have hasn't seem to made a dent. Tomorrow I'm gonna do another treatment, hopefully I have more luck.
I have two solutions though. I may just order the PAM and send it to my moms house(she lives in PA). I also called the vet near me. They actually treat reptiles, the website impressed me. They work with the zoo's Burmese Pythons and Boas. The cost would run about $150. Thats my last resort though. I'll try the PAM first.
On a side note, my friend got a Sumatran from LLL at the same expo. That snake has mites also.

On one more side note, I just spent 2 hours on HumaneSociety.org and now I have a splitting headache. :unhappy: What a bunch of jerks.

[shaunyboy]

So far not as good as I would like. As predicted, the mite stuff I have hasn't seem to made a dent. Tomorrow I'm gonna do another treatment, hopefully I have more luck.
I have two solutions though. I may just order the PAM and send it to my moms house(she lives in PA). I also called the vet near me. They actually treat reptiles, the website impressed me. They work with the zoo's Burmese Pythons and Boas. The cost would run about $150. Thats my last resort though. I'll try the PAM first.
On a side note, my friend got a Sumatran from LLL at the same expo. That snake has mites also.

On one more side note, I just spent 2 hours on HumaneSociety.org and now I have a splitting headache. :unhappy: What a bunch of jerks.

i wouldn't pay $150 mate

get a can of provent a mite

a can will treat a lot of tanks

treating yours and your friends tanks will not take a lot of spray,a can will last for years

the minute you treat the tank,your mite problem has been dealt with 100%

cheers shaun

[charlesc84]

I'm going to, the only reason I haven't done it yet is because my mom lives 3 hours away from me. I'll order it on Friday though. I honestly can't wait to get rid of these damn things.

[Terranaut]

Get LLL to ship it to that address. I would lose my mind if I had mights in 2 brand new snakes. They owe you for sure.

[charlesc84]

Ugh. I have an update...

I haven't seen mites since the last treatment, I'm not getting my hopes up yet, but it could be a good sign.

Bad news though... I was right about the respiratory infection. I just noticed bubbles coming out of the snakes mouth.

I guess LLL is getting another call from me tomorrow.

[USMCgunner11]

Ugh. I have an update...

I haven't seen mites since the last treatment, I'm not getting my hopes up yet, but it could be a good sign.

Bad news though... I was right about the respiratory infection. I just noticed bubbles coming out of the snakes mouth.

I guess LLL is getting another call from me tomorrow.

Sorry to hear about that. Glad you're handling it though. Keep us updated.

Also, with the PAM, I use it and swear by it. However, use it as directed and the number on problem people have with it is that they use TOO MUCH. Follow the label and you will finally be rid of your headaches.... after the RI is over with too that is.

[Rogue628]

I'm sorry to hear the snake has an RI on top of having mites. The only thing I question is, is it safe to deal with the mites the same time it's being treated for an RI? Wouldn't the RI need to be handled first before treating for mites? Or is it safe to use PAM on a snake with an RI?

[millertime89]

How long has the snake been in your care? Its possible that its your fault and that's how they'll approach it. (not saying it is your fault, just saying it might be and they might try and use that to get out of any responsibility)

[charlesc84]

How long has the snake been in your care? Its possible that its your fault and that's how they'll approach it. (not saying it is your fault, just saying it might be and they might try and use that to get out of any responsibility)

I've had the snake for about a month. But I noticed this stuff almost immediately, LLL knows about the mites and sent me Mite Off. The RI I suspected for a while, but now I know for sure.

[millertime89]

In cases like this, documentation is your friend. Did you post about the what you thought might have been the beginnings of an RI here or in another place? Could serve as evidence should you need it.

[charlesc84]

Actually I did, it's in the beginning of the thread somewhere.

[Terranaut]

Yup. He did in the early few posts.

[charlesc84]

So I called LLL...

According to the woman I spoke to, the wheezing and mouth bubbles don't guarantee the snake has an infection. She also said the snake wouldn't be eating if it did.
She was trying to imply that if it does have it, it must be the conditions the snake is currently in, and said maybe the tank is to cold. I basically said what the conditions are, and that they're what is expected for the snake. Temp, humidity, ect... It also surprised her that I have a water dish in the tank, they must think everyone they talk to is a complete idiot.
I felt like she couldn't possibly think that this is because of anything they did, despite the fact that they already sold me a snake with mites.
Her advice was to keep the tanks hot spot at 95 day and night, and to call her in 2 weeks. She also advised me not to take the snake to the vet.

[shaunyboy]

wheezing and mouth bubbles are indications of a respiritory infection mate

that woman you spoke to is talking out her arse...!!

you need to get the vet to culture swabs and prescribe medication

raising the hot end temperatures by 5 degree's,usually sorts it out if you catch things at a very early stage

yours however is too advanced imo for that to completely cure it

a trip to the vets is what i reccomend mate

cheers shaun

[Terranaut]

Wow. Can't say I would ever buy from them. I am shocked they said not to go to the vet. They are worried your gonna sue and don't want a fat bill. Breeders what a joke.

[brandonh]

Not to change the topic but don't LLL also sell wild caught animals? if so im sure that can bring in all kinds of parasites that can spread infections?

[hellosugaree]

PAM is not available everywhere like Nix. Sometimes if you want to treat today instead of waiting a few days/weeks before your mail order comes in almost every drug store has Nix.
I did buy PAM after treating with Nix but had I waited the infestation could have been bad.
I wish I had saved my money. Both products use the same active ingredient so I find it hard to understand how one could be better than the other. PAM is easier to use in the nice spray can but you get 4L of Nix at a fraction of the price.
BOTH work. I personaly prefer Nix but I did recomend PAM first for ease of use.

Actually there are multiple stereoisomers of permethrin, and different ones have different toxicities in different organisms. It is possible to label two products s 5% permethrin and have them not be the same thing.

[hellosugaree]

They had a small bottle of Reptile Relief spray for 8 bucks at the pet store so I got that. When I get home from work tonight I'm gonna try it. Here's 2 pics. On the second pic the saturation is increased a bit to show the red.

Once you get the mite problem settled, you'll be left with a nice-looking Bredli. As a side note, next time you are looking to get a snake, find a reputable small-scale breeder and pass on the giant distributors. It doesn't surprise me to see LLL and mites in the same post.

[Terranaut]

Actually there are multiple stereoisomers of permethrin, and different ones have different toxicities in different organisms. It is possible to label two products s 5% permethrin and have them not be the same thing.

Yup but in this case both products have been used with sucess to kill snake mites. Both get the same result regardless of lable. I am at work now but will have a look to see if the inner sleeve of the nix has the ratios listed. I'm sure they will be similar if not the same. I think the reason for the difference in usage techniques has more to do with the solution its in or the propelent than the isomer ratio.
Regardless both are widely used and actually work unlike other products.

[charlesc84]

I think I'll be taking the snake the vet soon... I've had it with this whole situation.

Northside Veterinarians (http://www.nahnyc.com/vets.htm)

Looks good to me.

[charlesc84]

Oh man. I just checked on the snake it doesn't look to good. There's so much foam on it's mouth it looks like it has rabies.
I'm gonna take it in but I have a feeling this animal is on its last leg.

Its mouth is opened and when it stretches its jaw it looks like its having trouble.

[brandonh]

Oh man. I just checked on the snake it doesn't look to good. There's so much foam on it's mouth it looks like it has rabies.
I'm gonna take it in but I have a feeling this animal is on its last leg.

Its mouth is opened and when it stretches its jaw it looks like its having trouble.

does your snake star gaze ?

[Terranaut]

Bad RTI sorry man .Take pictures and remember they told you not to see a vet.
I would ask them the same question now .
Sorry you and especially your snake are going though this .

[hellosugaree]

Once you get this taken care of and you and your snake are finally able to relax happily, you might consider sharing your experience with others beyond this forum. I know by the time you get this sorted out you will probably want to just forget the whole thing and get on with your life. However, a quick fifteen minutes to post your experience, for example, on the board of inquiry might help other people avoid going through the same trouble. I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say that I wish you the best in getting this taken care of and hopefully coming out with a healthy snake in the end.

[charlesc84]

Ok well the snake looks absolutely horrible today. Tomorrow I have an appointment with the vet at 10:45 am.
The throat is expanding like crazy as if it's gonna explode. Just being across the room I can hear it wheezing. I'm not sure but it looks as if the snakes mouth is sealed shut at this point.
I took some pics I'll post them here later.

[hellosugaree]

Ok well the snake looks absolutely horrible today. Tomorrow I have an appointment with the vet at 10:45 am.
The throat is expanding like crazy as if it's gonna explode. Just being across the room I can hear it wheezing. I'm not sure but it looks as if the snakes mouth is sealed shut at this point.
I took some pics I'll post them here later.

Just curious why you waited so long? I apologize if you answered this previously and I didn't read it.

[charlesc84]

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=ee74e70010&view=att&th=1378547a32b7391b&attid=0.3&disp=thd&realattid=f_h2nlao4y2&zw

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=ee74e70010&view=att&th=1378547a32b7391b&attid=0.4&disp=thd&realattid=f_h2nlao4z3&zw

[charlesc84]

http://https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=ee74e70010&view=att&th=1378547a32b7391b&attid=0.2&disp=thd&realattid=f_h2nlao4x1&zw

Not sure why the other pic isnt showing up here.

Anyway, I'm about to head to work. Hopefully the snake is alive when I get home. I'll keep you guys posted.

[MrBD1980]

Do vets not do emergency appointments where you are?

Sorry if you have given reasoning earlier but surely if the snake is that bandit needs to go ASAP....

[hellosugaree]

Why did you wait so long to get it to the vet though?

[charlesc84]

Ok so I have lots of updates.

I took the snake in on Saturday. Overall the vet experience was pretty good, but very expensive. About $150 in total. The snake has a respiratory infection as expected. The vet gave it a baytril shot and I have to give it one every day for ten days (though tonight was the third shot). He also cleaned up the mouth, overall the snake looks better.
I hate doing the shots though, the snake goes nuts and I don't have anyone holding it for me. Tonight after the shot the side of the snake swelled right up... Hopefully that's normal.
The shots in general seem to work well until the next day. I'm just gonna stick with it and hopefully it works out.

[charlesc84]

Why did you wait so long to get it to the vet though?


You'd have to follow the thread from the beginning to get the whole story. Wish I did take it in earlier though.

[jaleely]

What location are you giving the shots? Back, front?
Any movement by the snake while giving it the shot will probably cause tissue damage, bruising, and swelling.
Baytril shots are *harsh* on snakes...i hope all the next ones go well! How were the mites?

[hellosugaree]

Ok so I have lots of updates.

I took the snake in on Saturday. Overall the vet experience was pretty good, but very expensive. About $150 in total. The snake has a respiratory infection as expected. The vet gave it a baytril shot and I have to give it one every day for ten days (though tonight was the third shot). He also cleaned up the mouth, overall the snake looks better.
I hate doing the shots though, the snake goes nuts and I don't have anyone holding it for me. Tonight after the shot the side of the snake swelled right up... Hopefully that's normal.
The shots in general seem to work well until the next day. I'm just gonna stick with it and hopefully it works out.

Hang in there and stick it out. Don't stop giving the shots even if the snake looks better. With each dose you should be getting better at giving the shots. Oh, and 150 is cheap for a vet visit. When my bird got sick it cost us over 500 when all was said and done. Good luck!

[charlesc84]

What location are you giving the shots? Back, front?
Any movement by the snake while giving it the shot will probably cause tissue damage, bruising, and swelling.
Baytril shots are *harsh* on snakes...i hope all the next ones go well! How were the mites?


I give it on the upper part of the snake (before the neck though), on the side. Luckily I haven't seen any mites lately. Don't wanna jinx it though.

[charlesc84]

Hang in there and stick it out. Don't stop giving the shots even if the snake looks better. With each dose you should be getting better at giving the shots. Oh, and 150 is cheap for a vet visit. When my bird got sick it cost us over 500 when all was said and done. Good luck!


Damn, thankfully it wasn't 500...

I do feel I'm getting better with the shots actually. I feel like I'll be a much more experienced hobbyist when this is all said and done.

[shaunyboy]

Here's an updates: LLL sent me a free bottle of Mite Off.

the fact that this place sent you MITE OFF,IMO is proof they DON'T HAVE A CLUE,as to what they're talking about.....!!!

EVERYONE who has been keeping snakes for even a short amount of time,knows that MITE OFF IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME...!!

i cannot comment on the legality of PAM in NYC,but i can tell you on my can it says,made and licensed in the USA

these people should NOT be keeping snakes

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Ugh. I have an update...

I haven't seen mites since the last treatment, I'm not getting my hopes up yet, but it could be a good sign.

Bad news though... I was right about the respiratory infection. I just noticed bubbles coming out of the snakes mouth.

I guess LLL is getting another call from me tomorrow.

you need to take the snake to a reptile vet

they will take swabs of the mucus,then culture it to identify,the bacteria and the best antibiotics for that particular infection (it should NOT be expensive)

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Oh man. I just checked on the snake it doesn't look to good. There's so much foam on it's mouth it looks like it has rabies.
I'm gonna take it in but I have a feeling this animal is on its last leg.

Its mouth is opened and when it stretches its jaw it looks like its having trouble.

^^^^^
carpet pythons are a VERY HARDY SPECIES

i have seen carpet pythons,with DOUBLE PNEUMONIA, FULLY RECOVER after,4 to 8 weeks of the correct treatment.....

so i WOULDN'T worry too much just yet mate

imo,a VET and TRACHEAL SWABS,OR A TRACHEAL flush,is a MUST,if your bredl is going to get back to FULL HEALTH

i wish you all the best with the treatment


does your snake star gaze ?

^^^^^
if i am correct in saying your thinking of suggesting IBD

pythons DIE ,WITHIN the FIRST 4 weeks of FIRST EXPOSURE to the disease

the symptoms of IBD in pythons,show and progress much FASTER,compaired to the symptoms in boa's

earlier symptoms in pythons are.....

the inability to strike and constrict

mouth rot

retained shed,because the snake cannot control it's body movement,enough to rub/scrape the skin,when its time to shed

unable to upright itself,when placed on its back

neurological symptoms such as,head wobbles/shakes,disorientation,exagerated reflexes,STAR GAZING

^^^^^
my apologies if i got the reasoning,behind your question regards stargazing wrong mate

imo,the bredl has some type of respiritory infection

cheers shaun

[Coffee Black]

Hope all is going well. You got a good deal at the vet. I'm not saying $150 isn't a good chunk of change just that its a steal . Our water dragon cost us over $900. Hooray for Care Credit.

[shaunyboy]

I hate doing the shots though, the snake goes nuts and I don't have anyone holding it for me. Tonight after the shot the side of the snake swelled right up... Hopefully that's normal.
.

if possible it would be better for the snake and easier for you,if you could get somone to assist you,in holding the snake still

sometimes a lump may appear at the injection site,due to the liquid slowly dispersing

you can LESSEN the chance of a lump,by.....

pushing the plunger/liquid in more SLOWLY,to enable you to do this correctly,imo you need someone to imobilise the snake,while you inject it

you also should PULL the PLUNGER back a little,BEFORE you press the plunger down,inserting the Baytril.....

this is to check that your not penetraiting,a vein or blood vessel,if you see blood come into the barrel of the syringe...

then,take the needle out and use a different injection site

you should have a fully healthy bredl soon mate:)

please keep the updates coming

all the best shaun

[hellosugaree]

Damn, thankfully it wasn't 500...

I do feel I'm getting better with the shots actually. I feel like I'll be a much more experienced hobbyist when this is all said and done.

If you learn one thing, I hope it is to take your animals to the vet when they get sick! If you had waited a few more days trying to find DIY solutions on the internet, your snake would surely perish. Oh yeah, that and don't buy animals from giant distributors! Of course we always hope that these things will never happen again, but if does, you will be prepared next time.

I'm glad to hear you got it taken care of and I wish your snake a good recovery. It always sucks when stuff like this happens, but you will definitely establish a special bond with your animal when you help it recover from an illness. Hopefully soon this will just be a distant memory and something you can tell your friends about when you show them your gorgeous, big, and healthy Bredli in a few years.

[charlesc84]

Well the snake seems a bit better, but today it didn't finish its mouse. It swallowed half of it then spit it out. Not sure why. It's eaten bigger mice and seems to be feeling better.

[forkedtongue]

Sooooooooo...................Im going to go ahead and delete my original post and rewrite this now that I have read through all 8 pages of this thread...

I've never bought a snake from a large breeder or anything like that, I have seen LLLReptiles ads all OVER Kingsnake and from some of their ad's I just figured they were "one of those" companies...

From your ordeal, and their handling and recommendations to you, I can firmly say I would never in a MILLION years buy a snake from them.....

Very sorry for everything you have gone through, what a nightmare experience, thats the kind of thing you expect when rescuing a snake, not picking one up from a breeder :/

Thank you for taking this thing in to the vet and saving its life though, despite anyone elses opinions, you could have been a cheap *** and never taken that thing in for fear of a huge vet bill and let it die, so good for you.

(Oh, I dont know if it would work, but I did see a video one time of someone using I wanna say Modeling Clay to form a sort of restraint to hold the snake down when giving it shots, might be something to look into to help you out if you absolutely have no one who can help you with the shots.

[hellosugaree]

Thank you for taking this thing in to the vet and saving its life though, despite anyone elses opinions, you could have been a cheap *** and never taken that thing in for fear of a huge vet bill and let it die, so good for you.



Amen. If you can't afford or don't want to get a vet bill, then don't get a pet. A $150 (or more) vet bill to save a snake that will presumably bring you good times for well over a decade is a small price to pay. An animal getting sick is not always the owner's fault, but it is always their responsibility to take care of it. I see way too many people posting things like: "My _____ pet has a giant infection on half of it's body and looks like death and blah blah blah blah but I don't want to spend money to take it to the vet so I'll sign up for ssnakess.com and post on the forum instead."

[shaunyboy]

Amen. If you can't afford or don't want to get a vet bill, then don't get a pet. A $150 (or more) vet bill to save a snake that will presumably bring you good times for well over a decade is a small price to pay. An animal getting sick is not always the owner's fault, but it is always their responsibility to take care of it. I see way too many people posting things like: "My _____ pet has a giant infection on half of it's body and looks like death and blah blah blah blah but I don't want to spend money to take it to the vet so I'll sign up for ssnakess.com and post on the forum instead."

a correctly looked after bredl,should live 20 to 30 years

imo,there will always be irresponsible snake owners out there,that are unwilling to pay vet's fee's

imo,joining a forum and asking for help is better that doing nothing at all.....

for example,things like treating a burn and avoiding infection,can be dealt with for very little cash,a cheap iodine solution usually does the job...

if the irresponsible owner,hadn't bothered coming on and joining a snake forum,then a snake with a burn,would most likely become infected and kill the snake

i am in no way condoning,not doing everything possible,to get a sick snake back to full health

as said,a snake in your care,depends 100% on you doing everything required to keep it in full health,living in a correct environment

vet bills are part of keeping snakes

that said a correctly cared for snake.should never need to see a vet it's entire life,i've found carpet pythons to be.a hardy healthy species

cheers shaun

[Morgan says]

Wow, this has been a horrible ordeal! I am so sorry for your snake and yourself. I am glad it is doing better over all. Giving a snake a shot is very trippy, when I had to give my king snake one I was a little nervous but after a while it was kinda cool to do. ( I am terrified of needles....)

I know when my snake had mites I was freaking out. I came here asked for help then did my own research since everyone was giving me the same advice. Get PAM or NIX. Well like you I could not find NIX so I got RID. What I ended up doing was placing my snake in utter quarantine. Keeping him on just paper towels and giving him a hide. I soaked him in the tube for about thirty minutes, once he was done I took all of my cage decor along with the hide and water bowl and soaked it in a bleach alternative mixture, ran it through the dishwasher and then let it air dry over night. I boiled his lava rocks and lightly baked the wood piece. Emptied the cage, bleached the entire thing and got new substrate. I kept him in the make shift cage for about two months. Making sure ever day to clean the water bowl and to change the bedding. After those months I had not seen any mites present on him at all. I was certain I had won the battle without having to use any of the said sprays.

Later on my friend who is a breeder sold me the PAM for 20 bucks. She told me to spray the cage down, of course away from where the snake was staying. Air it out, then spray a paper towel lightly with the PAM and apply it to the snake from the neck down. Making sure that all the fumes were gone from it so as to not harm the snake. I sprayed down his cage just to make sure all those guys were gone but did not chance placing it on him. I have been five months clean of the horrid mites and could not be more pleased.

Has anyone else done it this way at all? I know most of the members here have a large collection of reptiles so this way would hardly be something you would do considering the time and space that would take up. But for anyone who maybe just had one snake infected??

[shaunyboy]

Wow, this has been a horrible ordeal! I am so sorry for your snake and yourself. I am glad it is doing better over all. Giving a snake a shot is very trippy, when I had to give my king snake one I was a little nervous but after a while it was kinda cool to do. ( I am terrified of needles....)

I know when my snake had mites I was freaking out. I came here asked for help then did my own research since everyone was giving me the same advice. Get PAM or NIX. Well like you I could not find NIX so I got RID. What I ended up doing was placing my snake in utter quarantine. Keeping him on just paper towels and giving him a hide. I soaked him in the tube for about thirty minutes, once he was done I took all of my cage decor along with the hide and water bowl and soaked it in a bleach alternative mixture, ran it through the dishwasher and then let it air dry over night. I boiled his lava rocks and lightly baked the wood piece. Emptied the cage, bleached the entire thing and got new substrate. I kept him in the make shift cage for about two months. Making sure ever day to clean the water bowl and to change the bedding. After those months I had not seen any mites present on him at all. I was certain I had won the battle without having to use any of the said sprays.

Later on my friend who is a breeder sold me the PAM for 20 bucks. She told me to spray the cage down, of course away from where the snake was staying. Air it out, then spray a paper towel lightly with the PAM and apply it to the snake from the neck down. Making sure that all the fumes were gone from it so as to not harm the snake. I sprayed down his cage just to make sure all those guys were gone but did not chance placing it on him. I have been five months clean of the horrid mites and could not be more pleased.

Has anyone else done it this way at all? I know most of the members here have a large collection of reptiles so this way would hardly be something you would do considering the time and space that would take up. But for anyone who maybe just had one snake infected??

^^^^^
its really good that you chose to ignore your friends advice re spraying ANY part of the snake

PREVENT A MITE SHOULD NOT BE SPRAYED ON THE SNAKE AT ANYTIME.....!!!

your friends BAD/DANGEROUS advice,regards spraying ther snake from the neck down,would most likely kill the snake...!!

please tell HER to READ the " instructions on the can "...!!

provent a mite REMAINS ACTIVE for 30 days,the life cycle of mites is less than 30 days

it kills the mites but not the eggs,it kills the mites the second they hatch from the egg

its always worked first time,everytime for me,and its easy to treat your whole collection with

just make sure the snakes are in a different room,while your treating the tank and tank contents

allow 2 hours for the fumes to disapate,before returning the snakes and their water bowls

water bowls only need washed with hot soapy water

cheers shaun

P.S.your friend just gave out,the WORST piece of advice i've seen in a long time mate ( kudo's for ignoring it )

[Morgan says]

@ Shaun,

Well she told me to not directly spray it on the snake but on a paper towel. Letting it air out before even touching the snake is that wrong advice?

[shaunyboy]

@ Shaun,

Well she told me to not directly spray it on the snake but on a paper towel. Letting it air out before even touching the snake is that wrong advice?

i would say it's WRONG advice

provent a mite is NOT intended to be used directly on a snake

as said provent a mite remains active for 30 days,so theres no need to put it on the snake mate

cheers shaun

[charlesc84]

For some reason the snake can't kick the RI. I'm not sure why, I finished the Baytril injections, and the temps are right. I've had the animal for around 2 months now and haven't seen any improvement. I'm baffled. I'm considering selling it for half price to someone dedicated who thinks they can get it to full health.

[Lankyrob]

Were full cultures taken and grown before the Baytril was prescribed? Could just need different antibiotics

[snake man12]

Nice carpet he has a lot of red in him

[Gungirl]

A lot of RI's will not respond well to Baytril if my memory serves me correctly. As Rob asked Did you have full cultures taken at the vets or did they just prescribe Baytril?

[charlesc84]

No, it was just prescribed. It was helping though. The infection has seemed to come roaring back with a vengeance.

[Lankyrob]

In that case it wasnt treating the infection fully, i would complain to the vet that they arent doing their job properly and see if they will do the cultures for free this time and then prescribe the correct drugs.

[charlesc84]

I'll call them on Monday... In the mean time I'm really burnt out on this whole situation, dealing with LLL Reptile, the mites, etc...
Anyway, if anyone wants to buy it, I'll sell it for $100 and include the Baytril that I have left over. I don't feel comfortable shipping though, so I prefer we meet up.

[shaunyboy]

No, it was just prescribed. It was helping though. The infection has seemed to come roaring back with a vengeance.

sometimes respiritory infections are a secondary symptom of something else,like an abccess on the lung,etc

mean time ask the vet to take swabs to culture or do a tracheal wash

then they can indentify the exact treatment for the bacteria present

i'm sorry to hear your still having problems mate

cheers shaun