crude business practices by london reptiles!!!

[boa maniac]

hello all, Just prior to christmas holidays I seen a post on kingsnake regarding veiled chameleons for sale. London Reptiles had a 40 lot of veiled chameleons for sale, I immedialtly replied to the post stating my intentions of wanting to purchase the whole lot. London reptiles replied, stating that they, meaning the veiled chameleons will not be ready for two weeks and that they will be 22.50 each. I then replied back stating I wanted them all, and that I live in Nova scotia. Since they apparently never shipping animals, London reptiles asked questions on shipping, which I immediatly offered directions on shipping, including diagrams on how to properly ship reptiles across county via aircargo. Now since i assumed that i was to purchase 40 veiled chameleons from London Reptiles i immediately went out and purchased enclousers to house chameleons since they have special requirements that differ from other reptiles. This purchase cost me a few hundred dollars.
Two weeks go by and the I recieve an email from London reptiles that the veiled chameleons were ready but there was only 30 available, I immediatly replied stating I wanted all 30. two days go by and no response. Then I get an email from London Reptiles regarding some virus that attacks computors thru email address books, a virus that is not detected by Norton. In the email there was instructions which including ridding your comp of the virus and emailing everyone in your address book about the virus. I did this and by doing this caused alot of stress to my email associates around the globe. I then called Norton about the virus and they informed me that the virus was a hoax. A hoax to get you to delete important files from your computor. I immediately informed london reptiles about the hoax through an email but got no response. Then after almost week London Reptiles finally emails, not to appologize about the hoax, but to say to bad so sad, they sold all the veiled chameleons to 3 other wholesalers. But hey I could get some more off them in March.
Well after hearing about everything i just wrote, I was a little bothered by all this so I wrote to London reptiles about how i felt about this whole situation, and instead of sending me an appology, they write to me and basically told me off for sending an email to them and complaing to them about my ordeal. As if to say I had no right to email them regarding my disappointment in them. The went on to brag about all the professional business that they do, and so fourth. Never once did they offer an appology, no instead they get all deffensive over my email. I still think that they, meaning London Reptiles should have offered an appology. Personally if I had animals for sale and someone offered to purchase them, I would wait for them to purchase the animals and not go behind their backs and sell them to someone else because it was convenient at the time to do so. You dont lead someone to believe that in two weeks when your animals are ready for shipping they they can buy them and then sell them to other people. This is not good business practices and I would never do this.
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THIS SITUATION!!!!


thanx everyone, Mike

[royal]

Thats a load of garbage mike... I'm not in the nova scotia area, and do not know the london reptiles store but if I hear of anyone wanting to deal with them, I will let them know of your horror storie.
I agree that the least London Reptiles could have done was to imediatley appologise(sp?haha) if not more.
Sorry for your loss

[Gorelith]

I'm in Nova Scotia already and will have a few (15 or 20 depends on how many I holdback) veileds for sale in another 3 months. Where are you located?

[ReneeB]

Mike, I tried to buy some snakes off of them a few months back and the day I went to put the $$ into the bank account, I get an email saying "they are sold.. sorry"

when I had already gotten a ticket to go down to London and pick them up!

needless to say I am not impressed with them either.

[Corey Woods]

I'm not defending anyone here.......I'm just offering my opinions.

Did you have a deposit on the animals in question? In my book something isn't sold until money has been received (at the very least a deposit). If you did not have a deposit on the animals than London Reptiles is free to sell them to whom ever they please as they are their animals. If someone from the East (or west) coast wanted to buy something from me but didn't have a deposit on the animals and then someone else local called me up with the cash I'd take the cash from the local guy.........Money talks!

I have noticed recently that there has been a lot of people lately wanting to buy animals......saying a deposit is on the way and then it never shows up after they screw you around a bit. It is now my policy to wait a week max for a deposit and if it doesn't show up the animals go back up forsale (unless other arrangements have been made). I had a guy string me out in BC for 3 weeks on a $6500 order which the deposit never arrived (after him promising on 2 different times to deposit the money the next day into my account) and another guy in the USA who took over a week to send me payment on $2000 US of animals......so I sold the animal to the next guy in line..........The first guy was pissed off but I told him you snooze you loose.

Getting back to your complaint.....no money was lost on the animals and I'm sure you can find something else to put in those enclosures so there was very little harm done.

Corey

[Dom]

I guess its a first come first serve basis for them..

Sorry for your losses guys.. that sucks!

[boa maniac]

Royal, thanx, I appreciate the kind words.

gorelith, I am located in New Glascow Nova scotia, I will take those chameleons when they are available.

ReneeB, well if you ever decide to buy any snakes from me, and I have lots, 100's, I will hold any snake you decided that you wanted, even if it took you a couple of weeks to come up with the money, as long as I have your word you really want the snake. check out my available page,
( http://www.boa-mania.com )

Cory, i understand what you are saying, but they never asked for a deposit. I would have been more then willing to put a deposit on an animals. when I first replied to the Ad, I was willing to purchase those animals right then and there. I am a man of my word, if you wanted any animals from me that were not ready, I would hold them for you with or without a deposit. And if you decided after the two weeks once the animals were ready that you did not want the animals, then no problem, I would put them back up for sale, someone will eventually want them. it still wouldnt change the way I do things. As for the enclousers, of course i can do something with them, I just purchased 40 large chameleons from a company in Tanzania, they will be here along with over 500 other african lizard species next week. But still I was looking forward to these veiled chameleons. Considering what London reptiles were selling their veiled chameleons and the turn over rate on veiled chameleons in the american market, man I did loose out on money for sure. I would have made some quick cash. But thats my thang, buy and sell.

Dom, I understand the first come first serve thang!! But that was not stated in this case, I saw a posting stating animals for sale, I wrote to them and told them I wanted to buy them all. they said they wont be ready for two weeks, I said well I will take them all in two weeks. Now if they said well we will need a deposit, I would have replied, whats your bank account info??? and had the money deposted asap!!! I mean , it was only 40 veiled chameleons. Its just the principals. look at ReneeB, she wanted some snakes, they made an agreement on the purchese then just when she was about to deposit the monies she was informed the animals were sold, another too bad so sad!!!
Thats not good business!

[paul_le_snake]

to be honest i have been corresponding with a mike from london reptilesand maybe its because he can't seel yhem but the bloods i'm interested in have been promised to me!! now this may be naive of me, but so far so good
cheers
paul

[BoidKeeper]

I say, if they call them selves a retailer or act like a retailer then they should get treated like a retailer! The customer is always right! They need to learn this if they are going to stay alive. If you are trying to run a business you can't tell someone you are going to sell him or her something and then not do it. They will take their business elsewhere, I have. If they say they can't hold it and you come back and it's gone then it's your tuff luck. You should have bought it when you had the chance. But if they say they are going to hold some for you and don't, that is bad business and as the consumers we have a right, and a duty to inform others so that they can make more informed decisions before making a purchase form that person or persons. There are too many people in herpetoculture that only act like they are a retailer when it suits them. If you give your self a name, have a website then to me you're presenting your self as a retailer and if you do and you burn someone they I say you should expect to hear about it. If you're Joe Blow who has a snake for sale the do what you like but if you're going to present your self as a business then expect to get treated like one buy your customers sometimes or stay small.
My two cents,
Trevor

[silke]

Mike - if they said you could have them...either 40 or 30 or whatever the final Total was...you had dibs

Corey - I totally agree with your policy...you give 1 week and that is fair. If no deposit is forthcoming, then they lost until you get $

If i tell someone that i am interested in an animal i do not expect them to hold onto it for me indefintely. If they ask for a deposit i will give it if i am indeed serious about the purchase.

[Grant vg]

Paul, the bloods were supposed to be sold to me as well at one point. Infact, the first day i inquired, he was willing to drive them to me right away.
but he decided not too for some reason.
So we went back and forth, i told him i wanted the female, and even found a friend to take the male. Sooner or later he stopped emailing me.
and that was that.
I dont feel the need to continuously email someone, for an animal i want, and not get a response.
Like Trevor, ill take my business elsewhere.
This was over 2 months ago, and if he wanted them sold. he could have had that a looong time ago.
He disapointed two parties, and obviously a lot more so ive read.

Soooo....Dont count on recieving them, but goodluck.:D

[sSNAKESs.com]

Not to stir the pot or anything but i know of another person(s) who tried to get those bloods with no prevail.

[Linds]

A verbal agreement is still an agreement. They didn't ask for a deposit so they didn't have any right to go and sell them out from beneath you. If they were going to back out of the deal they should have not given any kind of verbal agreements or impressions otherwise, that displays incredibly poor business ethics. You aren't going to do anything for a reputation, and definitely not going to get any repeat customers, doing business that way.
As for London Reptiles, the location listed is only minutes from me, and it is a small city, but I have never heard of them, only seen their ad on kingsnake. From what I read in this thread though I woudl certainly be hesitant to do business with them......

[JeffT]

I know how you feel man, I had a deal set up and I went out and bought evrything needed and then I found out they were all sold.

[paul_le_snake]

from what ive seen london reptiles is somehow affiliated with a store in toronto called cnc aquariums? as for the bloods i finally got pics from him this morning.
cheers
paul
ps as i recall i went to cnc to see apir of bloods he had for sale. i went looked saw they were two males got a mouthful of hassle from the guy and left.

[boa maniac]

WOW!!! I really appreciate everyones post , I am glad that I am not alone in how I felt about the whole situation, I am just trying to be a good business man in a profession that has always been a hobby to me ever since I was little wee one!!! I have found my calling in life, even though it it may take so many back breaking hours to care and house for so many animals it is always enjoyable to me. I also always enjoy coming on here and sharing, I just wanna say, I luv this little family of ours, and I want to thank Jeff ******** for creating such a nice place were we can all come together and share our animals with each other, and share our experiences in this hobby of ours whether its a good experience or bad!!! Its always nice to share and to vent!!!

thanx all!!!!;)

[chappy]

Does this place actually exist cause so far no one has received anything from them except for the words "sold out"

reminds me of a guy from rep rescue before who liked to play these games with people

[Linds]

Originally posted by boa maniac
I also always enjoy coming on here and sharing, I just wanna say, I luv this little family of ours, and I want to thank Jeff ******** for creating such a nice place were we can all come together and share our animals with each other, and share our experiences in this hobby of ours whether its a good experience or bad!!! Its always nice to share and to vent!!!


Cheers to that!!! :D

[BoidKeeper]

Infact, the first day i inquired, he was willing to drive them to me right away.
That is my biggest pet peve when it comes to buying snankes! Are you selling animals or not! Is said animal for sale or not. I hate it when someone list an animal and then the story changes all the time. The bandsaws at Canadian Tire are always the same prive 7 days a week no matter who wants to buy em. My other favorit stunt is " I can't sell you that animal but I can sell you THIS animal instead." That has only ever been offered with my best interest in mind once.:firestart

[Nanashi04]

That is pretty shady...
but it makes me wonder where the animals are going? Everyone here has been had them sold under them, but to who? o.O Do they play favorites or something?

[gonesnakee]

I TRIED TO BUY FROM MIKE FROM LONDON REPTILES ALSO & AM NOT IMPRESSED WITH HIM OR HIS PRACTICES. SNAKES WERE LISTED ON KINGSNAKE, I REPLIED RIGHT AWAY & WAS ANSWERED ALSO RIGHT AWAY BY MIKE WHO SAID HE WOULD GET BACK TO ME WITH SOME PICS & SHIPPING COSTS SO I COULD PAY HIM UP FRONT RIGHT AWAY. I NEVER HEARD BACK FROM HIM. THIS WAS IN LATE NOVEMBER/EARLY DEC. I HAVE EMAILED HIM ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK SINCE & HAVEN'T HEARD BACK SQUAT. I'M ASSUMMING HE SOLD THE SNAKES & CHOOSES TO IGNORE ME NOW. I WILL NEVER BUY ANYTHING FROM HIM NOR WILL I RECOMEND HIM TO ANY OTHERS. THE GUY IS A GOOF IN MY OPINION & HE SHOWS NO RESPECT TO HIS CUSTOMERS. I DON'T THINK I'M OUT OF LINE TO EXPECT A LITTLE BIT OF COMMON COURTESY ON HIS BEHALF. HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE IN BUSINESS AFTER ALL, BUT I'M SURE HE WON'T BE FOR LONG IF HE CONTINUES HIS "ANAL RETENTIVE BUSINESS PRACTICES" DON'T WORRY PEOPLE I EMAILED HIM PRIOR TO MAKING MY POST & MADE HIM AWARE OF HOW "POPULAR" (L.O.L.) HE HAS BECOME ON THIS THREAD. MAYBE HE'LL CHECK IT OUT & GIVE HIS HEAD A SHAKE (THOUGH I DOUBT IT). IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO CONFRONT HIM PERSONALLY, AS WE ALL SHOULD (I DON'T THINK IT RIGHT TO POST WITHOUT LETTING HIM KNOW ALSO IN PERSON), HIS EMAIL IS londonreptiles@cogeco.ca . I'M ASSUMMING THIS IS STILL CURRENT AS ALL THE MAIL I SEND THERE IS DELIVERABLE. THIS IS WHERE I FIRST CONTACTED HIM & WAS REPLIED BACK TOO ONCE. THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS & IF YOU ARE OFFENDED OR FEEL THE NEED TO STAND UP FOR THIS GUY, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME & I'LL TALK TO YOU IN PERSON. I'M NOT MUCH ONE FOR HIDING IN FORUMS "DISSING PEOPLE" I WOULD MUCH RATHER DEAL WITH THEM ON A PERSON TO PERSON LEVEL UNLESS THEY AREN'T MAN (OR WOMAN) ENOUGH TO DO SO. I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE ELSE TO TRY TO CONFRONT MIKE PERSONALLY FIRST, BUT YOU'LL PROBABLY JUST HAVE TO AIR IT ON THIS FORUM ANYWAY AS THE GUY WON'T REPLY BACK. LONDON REPTILES IS A JOKE IN MY OPINION & I HAVE YET TO HEAR OTHERWISE FROM ANYONE ELSE.
SINCERLY MARK ISBELL - GONE SNAKEE!
(403)252-2597 (403)708-6705

[gonesnakee]

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TO MAKE A RETRACTION OF MY PREVIOUS STATEMENTS OR NOT. LIKE I SAID ABOVE I EMAILED LONDON REPTILES BEFORE POSTING BECAUSE IT IS THE PROPER WAY TO GO ABOUT IT. TO MY SURPRISE I GOT A REPLY. APPARENTLY MIKE'S BUDDY DID THE NEW WINDOWS SOFTWARE THING FOR HIM IN DEC. & HE LOST ALL HIS CORESPONDENCE, ADDRESSES ETC. WHICH WOULD EXPLAIN MY MISDEALINGS WITH HIM. I MYSELF AM NOT A "COMPUTER GEEK" (NO OFFENSE PEOPLE, "WE MOCK WHAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND" L.O.L.) & WOULD HATE TO SEE SOMEONE ELSE GET TAKEN DOWN DUE TO THEIR MISFORTUNE. I'LL LET YOU ALL DECIDE FOR YOURSELVES BUT I'D BE WILLING TO OFFER HIM A CHANCE TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF FIRST. MARK ISBELL - GONE SNAKEE!

[sSNAKESs.com]

Hey Mark, could you please lose the caps man.. Its bad to look at :P Thanks.

[Pythonian]

thats like a place down here!! I am thinking of breeding Kali my ball python. So i find this guy with a male ball healthy and great looking. I say "I'm coming friday to pick up this snake, can you hold it for me?" his answer "of course, i'll keep it in the backroom i'm working friday so come straight to me" .. he puts it in the backroom cause i saw him because i went to get rats. Friday i am there before it opens "Ohhh sorry i sold it to a guy the next day!" .. it was a wednesday!! he had to save it until friday!!! wtf?!@?!
m
Mike

[boa maniac]

Hello all, anyways i recieved an email from mike yesterday morning, I ment to post it but I was so busy yesterday, well here it is,



Mike,
I'm sorry for sending you that tastless email, if your interested
I have a clutch of fifty hatching right now, I understand if your not but I feel pretty bad after letting you down, if I can help let me know. I'll send 40 in four weeks $20 each, no B.S. unless you want them younger but like I said I completely understand if you would rather not deal with me. Their good quality healthy Veileds and I'm not trying to push them on you I just don't know any other way to make up for causing this misunderstanding.
I know its my fault, I should've got back to you alot sooner.
Sorry man,
The last thing I need is to make enemies with any of the reptile guys out here. I'm sure you and me have alot more in common than differences.
Anyways let me know if I can do anyhting.
Sincerely Yours,
Mike London


WOW!!!! I am quite impressed with mike for admitting he was wrong and apologizing to me, that is all I really wanted, well that and the 40 veiled chameleons. well we will see what transpires from this, keep yah posted, happy herping!!!

[tHeGiNo]

Well I have a story similar to the follow, I will not mention any names. I am a website designer, and usually create web designs in return for herps. Well I had just got into herping and baught a Veiled Chameleon. I had an aquarium for him, but soon found out it would not be suitable. Well I found an individual who was willing to make me an enclosure in return for a webdesign. Being desperate for an enclosure, I accepted and created a website. I contacted him and told him I was finished, and whether he wanted me to send the layout in a zip file or post it on the web. He then said the deal is over. He stated it was because there had not be sufficient contact between us, but I don't understand what other information was needed, I knew everything I needed to know to create his design. Anyhow, I had been screwed out of hours of my time...yea it sucks...

[tHeGiNo]

Also I suggest you take those chameleons, would be a great investment heh

[jason h]

hehe not to throw gas on the fire but i purchased the bloods from mike on sunday and other than a very lengthy ordeal getting pics every thing went fairly well.