Recessive, or even knowable?

[Strutter769]

Two lightly colored normal animals are bred, creating an amazing variation we'll call "Moonbeam." Those two parents are bred three additional times with the following results:

In '07, 4 of 7 were Moonbeam, 1 of 6 in '09, and 2 of 3 in 2011 were Moonbeam.

Now, these seven snakes have not yet reached maturity, so there are no Moonbeam x Moonbeam results at this time.

Is it possible to determine with certainty the type of gene in play here?

Thanks!

[Kingsnakechris]

I'm not sure but that's freakin awesome! Color morphs and genetics are amazing...

[youngster]

No idea but I'd say you can't tell anything till you prove it out.

[KORBIN5895]

I'm not sure but that's freakin awesome! Color morphs and genetics are amazing...

What's awesome? I think I am missing something.

[Kingsnakechris]

What's awesome? I think I am missing something.

How two apparently normal animals are bred but they produced a completely unexpected color morph.

[KORBIN5895]

Oh. I was trying to find pictures.

[Coffee Black]

I believe the jaguar gene in carpets came from a normal looking female and male.

[KORBIN5895]

Roy and I have been discussing the actuality of this case and I feel we have stumbled on to a concern. The breeder is selling a pair of these visual babies for over 5k and certain other stipulations. I think that is crazy for an unproven gene. On the other hand if it proved out only like 15 moonbeams have been produced and would be a great opportunity.

[mykee]

Both are 100% het for a recessive trait you named Moonbeam".
AND you've had great odds so far.

[Shmoges]

Would the male father have to be line bred to other hypos and its female offspring?

[bushsnake]

Roy and I have been discussing the actuality of this case and I feel we have stumbled on to a concern. The breeder is selling a pair of these visual babies for over 5k and certain other stipulations. I think that is crazy for an unproven gene. On the other hand if it proved out only like 15 moonbeams have been produced and would be a great opportunity.
Its not really unproven, there are other traits that have worked like this, Im not sure about the name, maybe polygenetic..im not sure. Seems like the seller is willing to share history information which means he isnt trying to hide nothing weather you think they are worth 5k is a personal opinion. I have seen tho in the garter snake hobby(which is what im into)unproven hets being sold...first generation...no history...now thats b.s.

[ssshane]

Now, these seven snakes have not yet reached maturity, so there are no Moonbeam x Moonbeam results at this time.


The snakes born in 2007 are not mature enough to breed yet? Are we talking about ratsnakes?


After seeing the type of snakes most of the responders have, I think not. Sorry to intervene

[Strutter769]

The snakes born in 2007 are not mature enough to breed yet? Are we talking about ratsnakes?

Nope. Boas.

[bushsnake]

so whats the story on these Roy? How do they look?

[KORBIN5895]

so whats the story on these Roy? How do they look?

With their eyes.

[bushsnake]

so whats the story on these Roy? How do they look?
i was rudely interupted...any more info Ray? Who has them?

[Strutter769]

They're actually called Sunburst and they're Madagascan Ground Boas. You can see the Sunburst here:

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/89235-acrantophis-madagascariensis-2.html

[bushsnake]

are you trying to figure out the trait for the orange coloration Roy?

[Strutter769]

Well that and the bright white markings. Here is a picture of a Sunburst along with a normal littermate. Check out that size difference!

[bushsnake]

wow! thats nice for sure...looks like a "hypo" type...lighter and brighter like a pastel ball:)...if i was into ground boas like you are id be all over that...there is not much of a "selection" within that species


bushsnake (http://bushsnake.yolasite.com)

[Strutter769]

Here are the parents of the first Sunburst, apparently lightly-colored normals. First is Mom, then Dad.

[bushsnake]

cool, who has these?

[Strutter769]

Tom Prato. Now don't go buying any and drive down the value! Lol

[bushsnake]

very cool Roy...you thinking about getting one?

[Strutter769]

Working on getting a pair actually. Trying to determine if theyre worth the high asking price. They're not due 'til July though.

[bushsnake]

good luck......

[Strutter769]

Thanks BS.

[Gregg M]

It is not possible for you to know how the genetics are working at this point. It could be recessive, could be dominant, could be codominant, could be polygenic.

The only way to test breed it and to know for sure is to outcross the gene into unrelated normals. It is a lot of work to prove a gene either recessive, dominant, codominant, or polygenic and it can not be done with related animals.

[Strutter769]

Thanks Gregg. I'll have that opportunity when the time comes, I'm expecting a 1.2 trio of unrelated normal juveniles. The original breeder I'm sure will have proven it out (or not) within the 5 years mine will be maturing.

[mykee]

"With their eyes. "
LOL!!!
Some people just don't have a funny bone in their bodies...

[shaunyboy]

I believe the jaguar gene in carpets came from a normal looking female and male.

^^^^^
your correct mate

2 NORMAL looking coastals produced the first jag

jan eric engell of norway owned them

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

i was rudely interupted...any more info Ray? Who has them?

Lol. This makes so much more sense now!