bumble bee or spider?

[DomoneX]

i have plans on going to two shows between this month and july, pretty stoked:blink: and i'm planning on getting a new ball. i'm extremely interested in either a spider or a bumble bee and i've been trying to price them to see how much i should bring. so i was wondering what the going rate is at shows, if anybody knows and also opinions on the two or any other morphs.

[shaunyboy]

i know the spider morph has shown some neurological issues

Mykee or Aaron will be able to tell you more,as ball pythons ain't my thing mate

cheers shaun

[Aaron_S]

i know the spider morph has shown some neurological issues

Mykee or Aaron will be able to tell you more,as ball pythons ain't my thing mate

cheers shaun

You are correct on the spider morph. They all have what is known as "the wobble". It just means their motor skills of their head region aren't as fine as other snakes. It doesn't stop them eating, pooping, or breeding.

The bad side of this is that any spider cross, which includes the bumblebee, has it. They all don't have the same level of wobble but all of them do.

For pricing, I sold male bumblebees in my area for $300 - $350.

[mykee]

Yeah, what Aaron said.

[MoreliAddict]

I recommend setting $400 (at least) aside for the snake itself if you're looking for a bumblebee in the states. Especially if you're looking for quality.

[FangsAnarchy]

At the shows I have been to bumble bees are between 400-750 anything I would have considered buying was in the 600-750 range. Spiders 125-400 So if you have the cash I think the bee looks nicer. I saw a really bad wobble on a spider at the Columbia repticon show and I am to this day not sure why he was 250 and a nice healthy spider from they guy directly across from him was 150.

[Snakefood]

I'd go Bumblebee. They're pretty and if you ever do breed, they have 2 genes aposed to one.

other morph's you may find interesting are: Enchi, Axanthic and Pinstripe.

Enchi
18635


Axanthic
18636


Pinstripe
18637

All pics courtesy of World of Ball Pythons

[DeesBalls]

I say spider... just my $0.02

[Strutter769]

Yeah, what Aaron said.

And what Mikey said.

Personally, a breeder who breeds anythinh *knowing* it's gonna without a doubt have any neurological issues, will not see any of my money, ever.

[KORBIN5895]

Look for a honeybee......

[TalonNC]

that Axanthic ...is ...wow....

what is the running cost of those?

[mykee]

Axanthics run about $600 but end up looking like ugly normals at six months of age. All the black and silver fades to dull shades of brown.

[mykee]

"Personally, a breeder who breeds anythinh *knowing* it's gonna without a doubt have any neurological issues, will not see any of my money, ever. "
Well lucky for you you don't own any ball pythons, which makes your point null and void.

[DeesBalls]

I have a spider I plan to breed my my pastel.... does that make me a bad person? No. O don't think so
I still say spider. They are awesome there selves and can make some cool stuff...

[Snakefood]

ha that's awesome, I have a 2 yr old pastel male and have a deposit down on afemale spider het ghost and when she's old enough, I'm breeding them!!

[millertime89]

Shame the axanthics brown out... I bet an ax-pin would look killer.

edit: yup, at least I think so.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/files/morphs/axanthic-pinstripe/001.jpg
photo from exotics by nature.

[Snakefood]

I'm really taken with the Axanthic, and even if they do fade out with age, you're right Kyle, there are some stunning morph's that can be made by combining Axanthic with other genes.

[millertime89]

I'm really hoping the anerytheristic tigers and antrax retics hold their silver and black, they're stunning as babies.

[Snakefood]

There are a few stunning retics I've seen, but they're just too big for me!!

[Squirtle]

Don't believe everything I say, but from what I've seen, most bumblebee's tend to brown out as they age and look almost identical to spiders. The plus side of that is that you can make crazier morphs with a bumblebee than a spider Ball Python. I'd go for the bumblebee.

[Snakefood]

Yes, Like Axanthic Killer Bees

18662

[Gungirl]

Axanthics run about $600 but end up looking like ugly normals at six months of age. All the black and silver fades to dull shades of brown.

Is there any chance you would have a picture of an older one? I am interested in seeing how the colors change on them.

[millertime89]

Is there any chance you would have a picture of an older one? I am interested in seeing how the colors change on them.

ya know... I would be too, just to see a comparison.

[Gungirl]

I did a little google searching but I am not happy with what I found. I am unsure if the snakes I saw are labeled right. Seeing something from someone whoms word I trust would help me understand the change better.

[Strutter769]

Well lucky for you you don't own any ball pythons, which makes your point null and void.

So after backing up your point, I feel the wrath. Nice.

[mykee]

Lol...

"Is there any chance you would have a picture of an older one? I am interested in seeing how the colors change on them"

Exactly. An ugly brown yearling won't do much to sell silver and black babies now will it?

[Gungirl]

brat..... lol

[FangsAnarchy]

I found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRmKePpc3qI&feature=relmfu ( This) ... I don't know I think I would need to see an adult in person. This one still looks pretty good and it didn't turn too terribly brown. In another clip the guy says she is a 2003 laying a 2009 clutch.

[DomoneX]

thanks for all the info guys. knowing the prices and what to look for i think i might go for a spider. also, my girlfriends dad has a pastel that he would just love to breed with it so i can make my own bumble bee. now are those prices for younger pythons i'm guessing?

[millertime89]

I did a little google searching but I am not happy with what I found. I am unsure if the snakes I saw are labeled right. Seeing something from someone whoms word I trust would help me understand the change better.

its regrettably well documented in retics. :(
edit: I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[FangsAnarchy]

Sorry guys, I fail at linking things
Axanthic Ovulation - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRmKePpc3qI&feature=relmfu)

[TalonNC]

if you breed an Axanthic x Axanthic ...will you get a Super Axanthic? (One that would hold it's color like Super Pastels?)

[mykee]

No. Axanthics are recessive; no super form. You would get all Axanthics.

[Aaron_S]

yeah;what he said.

[KORBIN5895]

yeah;what he said.

You two are just trying to raise your post count!

[mykee]

LOL!!!! Aaron is, my posts are still golden nuggets of information.
His are entirely useless.

[Shmoges]

bee's and axantics are my favs

[Snakefood]

I'm also becoming fond of the Banana BP too!!

[KORBIN5895]

Look at this golden nugget of information I found!!!
I had steak and eggs for breakfast this morning.
That's all.
I have nothing else to say...
What wisdom and insight!

[mykee]

ROTF.
Yeah, I started that thread to determine how many fools with too much time on their hands would respond to a thread that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with reptiles and, quite frankly, nothing to do with anything.
Your post in that thread was noted Sir.

[KORBIN5895]

My post was in response to Aaron getting his panties in a bit of a twist;) Someone has to keep you two in line.

[mykee]

Don't blame Aaron, he's dim. You should know better!!!

[Snakefood]

My post was in response to Aaron getting his panties in a bit of a twist;) Someone has to keep you two in line.

How do you get your panties in a twist over a breakfast thread??? (sorry didn't even read the first post on that one!)

[KORBIN5895]

Don't blame Aaron, he's dim. You should know better!!!

Oh yeah?!?! Well I am an idiot! Top that!

[kj3662]

I'd have to reccomend bringing about $600 and find a nice male Spider and an exceptional female Pastel. Raise them up enjoy them and when there big enough breed them and produce your own bee. Just my $0.02

[Aaron_S]

You know I JUST found these comments about me....jackasses...

[Rogue628]

I'd honestly take around 4-600 to give you a good cost variation on the morph you want. I personally like the bumblebee out of the two, and killer bees are really nice! I no longer go to Mike Wilbanks site to look at the different morphs as he has morphs I'd sell my car for and gladly walk to both jobs (about 20 miles away) just to have one, especially the Eclipse.

I don't have any experience with the spider wobble myself but my interest in spiders and bumble bees led me to do some research on it. From what I've read from those who have experience with them, it appears the spider wobble is pretty much in all spiders and any animal that carries the spider gene. Spiders themselves are said that all have it, with some barely being noticed and even sometimes goes away as they get older or it doesn't show until they get older. They tend to show it the most when they're either excited or scared or even during feedings by missing often when striking and sometimes not striking directly at it's food. Now, with that being said, they are probably the best eaters of the royals from what other keepers have said. Rarely have I heard anyone have feeding issues with their spiders unless theirs have an extreme wobble causing them to rarely strike their prey correctly. I have also heard of some extreme cases of the spider wobble that almost cripples the poor animal during an onslaught of the wobble. But aside from the wobble, they're healthy animals that eat, generally have a really good temperament, and are not limited by any means by the wobble. With a good keeper, they have healthy, normal, and productive lives.

Also it seems that each time the spider gene is mixed with another gene or two, the wobble that is in the spider gene is lessened. In other words, you may have a good chance of getting a bee that doesn't appear to have the wobble at all.

I'm still not sure how I feel about an animal with a known birth defect being bred though. The spider gene mixed with other genes does produce some of the best looking morphs in my opinion.

Good luck in finding your new animal! And remember, we LOVE pics! :D

P.S. If anyone sees something I have wrong, please correct it. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know the correct information myself as well as for the OP

[KORBIN5895]

Don't blame Aaron, he's dim. You should know better!!!

You know I JUST found these comments about me....jackasses...

Hmmmm. A day late.......

Yeah mykee I believe you're right he definitely is the quickest runner in the race.

[mykee]

"Also it seems that each time the spider gene is mixed with another gene or two, the wobble that is in the spider gene is lessened"
Wrongo.
Any animal that has spider in it has the full genetic defect. There is no diluting the gene.
A spider only carries one spider gene (the other gene it carries is normal) just like the bumblebee (the other gene it carries is pastel) so your theory makes no sense.

[Snakefood]

OK, so say an " axanthic Killer bee" has the same wobble as a "spider" even after being diluted by 3 other genes??

[KORBIN5895]

If spider is a dominant dominant gene then it is not being diluted at all.

[Snakefood]

ok, interesting.

[mykee]

Yes, if the animal has the spider gene (even it it also has eleven other genes in it) it will still wobble just like a "normal" spider.

[Snakefood]

What about snakes that end up being het for spider?? do they wobble too?

[mykee]

No such thing as het spider. Spider is either a dominant or co-dominant gene.

[Snakefood]

so it is always a "visible" trait??

I LOVE this stuff, BP genetics are quite some bit different than corn genetics. I'm learning sooooo much!!

[mykee]

Yup.
Either it's a spider, or it's not.
No hets.
Only recessive genes have hets.

[Snakefood]

So that means that because my "soon to be" spider is PH ghost, that hypomelanistic is a ressesive gene in BP's??

[mykee]

Yes, hypomelanism is a recessive trait in ball pythons.

[Rogue628]

Wrongo.
Any animal that has spider in it has the full genetic defect. There is no diluting the gene.
A spider only carries one spider gene (the other gene it carries is normal) just like the bumblebee (the other gene it carries is pastel) so your theory makes no sense.


Thanks for the correction. I was only going by what others have noticed with some of their spider gene royals. Of course, it could show up later too since most of these were still juvis.

And when you put it that it, it makes sense.

[mykee]

I have quads with spider in it and the spider "issues" are still obvious at feeding time.

[Snakefood]

But there are still gradients on how bad the wobble is, right?? Even when looking at "pure" spiders?? Is this correct??

Some have almost none, and some have really bad/obvious??

[mykee]

Yes, I've owned spiders that ride teh crazy train, and I've owned spiders that only head-vibrate at feeding time. To me, both types exhibited the spider wobble to some extent. I work with very few spiders at this point in my collection. I replaced spiders with pinstripes many years ago.

[DeesBalls]

Yes, I've owned spiders that ride teh crazy train, and I've owned spiders that only head-vibrate at feeding time. To me, both types exhibited the spider wobble to some extent. I work with very few spiders at this point in my collection. I replaced spiders with pinstripes many years ago.

my spider shows no signs of a wobble... but from what i understand they ALL have the wobble, or is there some who dont get the wobble???

[mykee]

They ALL have it.

[DeesBalls]

They ALL have it.

ok. thanks mykee

[mykee]

No worries, sorry for the impending bad news.

[DeesBalls]

No worries, sorry for the impending bad news.

its all good, ive read it before, but never was 100% positive about it.