I want to get a berm any info would be great

[Pueblo]

Hey all im looking to get a berm but i need to know more about them first. i need to know size adult size male and female.
feeding habbits. anclosure size and so on.

[hellosugaree]

Big. That's all I can say ;)

[Squirtle]

Don't think you're ready for one no offence.

[alessia55]

Do some research. There is LOTS of information with a simple google search.

[MoreliAddict]

Don't think you're ready for one no offence.

Hey all im looking to get a berm but i need to know more about them first. i need to know size adult size male and female.
feeding habbits. anclosure size and so on.
Seems like they are aware...

[Bradyloach]

read this! woah
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/giant-python-discussion/91939-finally-saw-wrath-my-burm.html

[Gungirl]

Check to see if it is even legal to own a Burm in your area first. Then figure out if you will be able to take care of it. I am not sure on adult size but I do know that you will never want to be alone when you handle it. So will there always be a second person around to help you clean, feed, and check on it?

Other than that I am of no help... someone should come along soon with more info.

[SpOoKy]

So will there always be a second person around to help you clean, feed, and check on it?

Stephan brought up a good point on another thread about having a capable person around when handling. You want someone who is going to know what to do if something were to go wrong.

[KORBIN5895]

Don't think you're ready for one no offence.

What the????? And you were/are?? Pretty harsh advice. Any particular reason he isn't ready?

[Squirtle]

What the????? And you were/are?? Pretty harsh advice. Any particular reason he isn't ready?

Didn't mean for it to come out mean. But if he doesn't already know the sizes burms can reach then he has a lot of reading to do.. who are you..?

[alessia55]

Hey all im looking to get a berm but i need to know more about them first. i need to know size adult size male and female.
feeding habbits. anclosure size and so on.

Because burmese pythons are handful, I suggest you do some research about them and come to us with more specific questions. You should know the size of a burmese, their feeding habits, and their enclosure size before you start looking into getting one.

[alessia55]

Our forum already had some good info on burms:

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/giant-python-discussion/49523-giant-python-faq-look-here-first.html

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/giant-python-discussion/91562-handling-big-snakes.html

[Squirtle]

Because burmese pythons are handful, I suggest you do some research about them and come to us with more specific questions. You should know the size of a burmese, their feeding habits, and their enclosure size before you start looking into getting one.

Thanks, that is exactly what I meant.

[KORBIN5895]

Didn't mean for it to come out mean. But if he doesn't already know the sizes burms can reach then he has a lot of reading to do.. who are you..?

So again give me a particular reason he isn't ready. Also I have no desire to fight with a child ten years younger than I. I remember dome of your posts and I think you were in the same boat as the op six months to a year ago.

[marvelfreak]

Hey all im looking to get a berm but i need to know more about them first. i need to know size adult size male and female.
feeding habbits. anclosure size and so on.
Check out this link it should answer most of your questions.
Burmese Python Care Sheet (http://www.reptilechannel.com/care-sheets/burmese-python.aspx)

Then if you still have some just ask and i'll do my best to answer them.

[Squirtle]

So again give me a particular reason he isn't ready. Also I have no desire to fight with a child ten years younger than I. I remember dome of your posts and I think you were in the same boat as the op six months to a year ago.

Please, look through my post and find where I was asking for the size Burmese Pythons reach when they're adults. Also, please look for a post where I spelled "Burm" with an e instead of a u. I've never really had problems with my burm, he went off feed once for like two weeks and he also wasn't really tame as he was getting close to a year old. Want me to make a video of me handling him or something to see how tame he is now?

[alessia55]

Korbin and Squirtle, settle your differences elsewhere.

Pueblo, if you're interested in a burmese python, do some research, check out the links I posted and the care sheet Chuck posted. Make sure that burmese pythons are legal in your city and state. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask us. We have some experienced owners on here who will help you out.

[Trollbie]

A lot of people aren't ready. I probably wasn't when I got Penelope on an impulse. But he's here, and people here will help him get ready if he does end up getting one.

[Squirtle]

What ever the OPs decision may be, I hope he/she knows that there HAVE been deaths caused by Burmese Pythons.. All it takes is one simple mistake.

[Lankyrob]

A lot of people aren't ready. I probably wasn't when I got Penelope on an impulse. But he's here, and people here will help him get ready if he does end up getting one.

Not being ready for a snake that might hit seven feet in its whole life is majorly different to not being ready for a snake that could hit seven feet in under a year and carry on up to fifteen feet.

To the OP the main thing is being as sure as you can that for the next twenty five years you have a reliable person willing to be there EVERY time you need to access the viv, change the bedding, feed the snake, handle the snake etc etc.

[Trollbie]

Not being ready for a snake that might hit seven feet in its whole life is majorly different to not being ready for a snake that could hit seven feet in under a year and carry on up to fifteen feet.

To the OP the main thing is being as sure as you can that for the next twenty five years you have a reliable person willing to be there EVERY time you need to access the viv, change the bedding, feed the snake, handle the snake etc etc.

Well my point was that he's asking questions first so that he can be ready should he choose to get one. :)

[exwizard]

Well my point was that he's asking questions first so that he can be ready should he choose to get one. :)

This exactly. Hes asking questions and should get reasonable answers, not "youre not ready". It seems to me that asking the questions is part of the needed research to know what he will be in for.

@OP...

A Burm can get up to about 16' in length and can weigh as much as 200 lbs when full grown. Even then he wont stop growing. He will only slow down his rate of growth as he grows older. The key to having a snake like this is frequent handling when he is a baby. This way he will be much tamer and much more handleable when he gets bigger. As far as Burms go, I would go with the "1 person for every 8' of snake" rule although 1 per 6 is even better and the extra people really need to know what to do should the worst happen.

[Kingsnakechris]

I'm interested in learning what to in one of those situations, not that I'm planning on keeping a huge snake like that any time soon but it's good info to know and I'm sure the OP would be interested as well.

[exwizard]

...agreed. :)

[KORBIN5895]

Omg! How did I miss that! Of course you're not ready Pueblo! You misspelled burm!

[KORBIN5895]

I have a female central american colubian mix. and im just wondering how big she can get. my other female colubian is ten foot but i herd centrals dont get as large. and im wondering if shes mixed will that make her smaller. if anybody knows id be gratefull.

Just thought this belonged here.

[Squirtle]

Omg! How did I miss that! Of course you're not ready Pueblo! You misspelled burm!

lol so it's alright for YOU to be a complete **** to people most of the time but if I say something in a nice way it's wrong? you must be a freaking king or something.

[RandyRhoads]

FIsh tanks are nice, how about one of those neat things instead? Please?


Before you get one have a steady job/income a good idea you will be somewhere you can keep it (ie not moving to an apartment), get an enclosure, lights , heat pads, everything you will need. Like someone else said you have to think of the many YEARS this giant monster will be your responsibility. It's not a dog. Once you get it I can almost guarantee you will be stuck with it forever. Not many people want to take an adult burm.

[Kingsnakechris]

Found this : Any snake measuring over 13 or 14 feet should probably be worked with a partner. *Someone that has large snake experience would be an obvious benefit, but even someone with no experience watching your back is safer than working alone. *You should always mention to your “spotter” a few things. *If a snake actually wraps you up in an attempt to constrict you, it is always best to unwrap the snake starting from the tail. *Trying to pull coils off in its mid section or trying to push coils to the side in an attempt to pry off the head would likely be futile. *It is a good idea to keep a spray bottle of alcohol such as vodka handy. *Sometimes simply spraying an alcoholic substance in the snake’s mouth will cause them to release their bite. *As with any medical emergency, the victim’s airway and breathing status should always be the first priority. **Stopping the snake from constricting a person’s chest, neck or head is much more important than stopping a bite to an arm or leg. *Dialing 911 is of course a good idea, but you have to remember that A. seconds count if someone is being constricted and B. keeping large snakes is a specialized area of expertise. *Paramedics aren’t trained in removing 19-foot retics from people. *It is your responsibility to know what to do, and have your back up know what to do too. *

Source: Handling Large Constrictors (http://mahn001.tripod.com/id36.html)

I'm sure everyone knows this but just incase, it's good to know

[Kingsnakechris]

The above was in reference to retics but burms get huge too! It's all about safety...

[RandyRhoads]

*Paramedics aren’t trained in removing 19-foot retics from people.


<<<<This one is :smug::smug::smug::smug:

[Kingsnakechris]

<<<<This one is :smug::smug::smug::smug:

Haha too bad your 6+ hours away. I can hold my breath for a good little while but I think that may be stretching it a bit LOL. either way tho, I think what that was implying is that if your buddy doesn't know how to save your @$$ or isn't instructed on how to handle dangerous situations involving snakes the size of burms or retics your S.O.L
@ OP that page is about retics but it's basically about handling big snakes. I think you could get some general info out of it regarding handling and safety as burms get huge as well.

[KORBIN5895]

Are we forgetting he currently has a ten foot boa? He already has a large snake. So maybe those with actual experience could answer his questions or give some helpful advice? Novel I know.......

[Norm66]

Burms are great. I love mine. If you're serious read up and try to get some hands on with an adult Burm. Then buy. Baby and grow up with it.

[AaronRiot]

Oshawa, where you live, has laws prohibiting keeping these animals. Your boas as well. The local herp shop was recently shut down after they were found to be selling prohibited animals and later the owners (breeders) home was raided and they incurred thousands of dollars in fines. Google it. I forget the shops name. I believe all their animals were confiscated as well. This was just a month or two ago.

Check out the bylaws... might as well know the risk you're taking before you take it.

[shaunyboy]

Don't think you're ready for one no offence.

^^^^^
this would be the most important issue

burm's are VERY powerfull snakes and command a lot of respect

i'm not being cheeky mate

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

A lot of people aren't ready. I probably wasn't when I got Penelope on an impulse. But he's here, and people here will help him get ready if he does end up getting one.


imo,theres a difference in not being ready for,a small managable snake.....

compaired to a large snake (12ft plus) ,thats more than capable of killing a keeper

to the op
i'm not saying you are not aware,i'm only pointing out that burms are very powerfull snakes

cheers shaun

[Norm66]

Yea, if it's illegal it's illegal.

[red ink]

Zero.. knowledge about Burmese pythons, hmmmm?

Wait who would have thunk it to ask on a reptile forum for some answers to very very basic questions....

Three pages and only three answers that I counted to the OPs again basic questions.... Hmmmm?

I'm with Dumber on this one...

[Gungirl]

Zero.. knowledge about Burmese pythons, hmmmm?

Wait who would have thunk it to ask on a reptile forum for some answers to very very basic questions....

Three pages and only three answers that I counted to the OPs again basic questions.... Hmmmm?

I'm with Dumber on this one...


I am with you guys on this one. How is someone suppose to learn about the kind of snake they are interested in if no one is willing to give out info? I wouldn't be surprised if he has stopped reading the thread.

[marvelfreak]

I am with you guys on this one. How is someone suppose to learn about the kind of snake they are interested in if no one is willing to give out info? I wouldn't be surprised if he has stopped reading the thread.
Like i said before if he has any question just ask. I use to own 7 Burmese pythons and have over 8 years experience with them. My biggest was a 13.5 foot baby and my smallest was a 6 foot demon.

[Gungirl]

Yes I know Chuck you are one of the few good guys... I just wish more people would stop shooting someone down before looking into it further.

[red ink]

Like i said before if he has any question just ask. I use to own 7 Burmese pythons and have over 8 years experience with them. My biggest was a 13.5 foot baby and my smallest was a 6 foot demon.

Your one of three mate...

[KORBIN5895]

Your one of three mate...

You better reciprocate.......

[red ink]

You better reciprocate.......

Lol... so you've noticed the sig... just put that one on a couple of days ago.

Yeah Chuck was me first mate on the forum.

[KORBIN5895]

Oh I noticed just wasn't sure how to take it.;)

[millertime89]

Sounds like its illegal where ya live, but I'll give ya the run down.
Females can hit 20+ft and almost certainly will exceed 16ft. Males can hit 16 but usually top out in the 12-14ft range.
Feed them like any other giant, start with once a week when small, when they get to larger prey start cutting it back. They're generally docile but can have horrible tempers and almost always have an absolutely CRAZY feeding response. When they hit they hit HARD. Even my dwarf burm girl hits like a tank and she's only 6 ft.
Expect to need a 5x3 or a 6x2 at the very least and plan on a 6x3 if you get a female. They need a hotspot close to 90*F and 75%+ humidity, more as babies. They can be susceptible to RIs
They can be very rewarding to work with. Like the other giants they seem to be naturally inquisitive and relatively intelligent. However once they surpass 6-8 feet you absolutely MUST have someone around at all times when you're working with one because they are very strong. They may be heavy bodied, but like bloods they're not fat despite their appearance.
If you can find someone in your area (doubtful since they're illegal) with one I would encourage you to go check them out and maybe work with them a few times before making a decision. But I wouldn't encourage you to buy one since they're illegal.

[Gungirl]

Thank you Kyle for adding more information... I only hope the OP is still reading the thread

[Pueblo]

hey guys i didnt mean to start such problems we are all friends here.everybody is entitled to there opinions thats why i asked to see what you guys thought.I should have been more clear im interested in getting a berm but if they are to big or such a handfull id rather not. but ive watched alot of vidios were they seem awsome. so i was just looking for some more info. I realize going from somthing like a ball python to a berm would be a huge step but i already own a ten foot columbian. as far as by laws and regulations I believe they are made by stupid poeple and never made in mind of us reptile lovers. i believe there should be permits and proper testing before you can own any pet. there are alot of yahoos out there that go waving around snakes and reptiles to people who are scared or uninformed of them. most fear comes from not being educated about the topic and this is no different when dealing with reptiles. But i want to thank everybody who responded. i definatly agree with both of you yes more reaserch is needed but i believe we never stop learning and as good as we are sombody may be doing somthing that might work better.

[Pueblo]

i also feel that telling sombody theyre not ready is wrong instead maybe ask them why they feel they are ready or ask them some key things they may need to know. and then giude them in the right direction by sugesting doing more reaserch. this way you won't offend anybody.

[Pueblo]

thanks millertime for the info very valuable. again laws are made because of idiots. if idiots didnt go waving around large snakes and idiots not securing them in proper enclosures we wouldnt have these laws in the first place. when they made the gun laws and asked everybody to turn in there guns the honest people did but the criminals for sure did not. im not stupid so i dont show off my pets to people i enjoy them behind closed doors. and i make sure they are secure and well maitained. so as for laws im not a killer or thief or anything morally wrong. and i don't interfier with others living there own lifes. but i live my life my way quietly and piecfully and i try to gently perswade the uneducated to learn more before they judge others. piece and god bless

[alessia55]

hey guys i didnt mean to start such problems we are all friends here.everybody is entitled to there opinions thats why i asked to see what you guys thought.I should have been more clear im interested in getting a berm but if they are to big or such a handfull id rather not. but ive watched alot of vidios were they seem awsome. so i was just looking for some more info. I realize going from somthing like a ball python to a berm would be a huge step but i already own a ten foot columbian.
The temperament and needs of a burmese python are much different than that of a red tail boa.
as far as by laws and regulations I believe they are made by stupid poeple and never made in mind of us reptile lovers. i believe there should be permits and proper testing before you can own any pet.
Yes, I think many of us agree that we wish there were a permit system so that responsible keepers could keep the reptiles they want. Unfortunately, the law is already set in place and as responsible keepers, we should abide by them (even if we disagree with them). The laws may not be made with us reptile lovers in mind, but they usually consider the environment and the people in the area. For now, we must abide by these laws. Abiding by these laws is part of being a responsible reptile keeper.
there are alot of yahoos out there that go waving around snakes and reptiles to people who are scared or uninformed of them. most fear comes from not being educated about the topic and this is no different when dealing with reptiles.
We can hope to educate everyone around us, but that doesn't mean everyone can or should get over their fear of reptiles. Yes, some fear comes from a lack of knowledge, but we should still respect those who are afraid of snakes (politicians included!).

I think you are right to do more research. With more research and experience with larger snakes, you may one day be ready for a burmese python. By then, you might live in an area where they are legal to keep. Good luck & happy learning in the meantime! :)

[marvelfreak]

Lol... so you've noticed the sig... just put that one on a couple of days ago.

Yeah Chuck was me first mate on the forum.
What can i say mate i new from the being that your were one one of the Good Guys.:)

[Pueblo]

I have to say i just love this forum. the diversity in people and opinions is awsome. as for my spelling i know it sucks big time. but that does not make me stupid im just a little uneducated. also when i type really fast my spelling gets worse. and most of the time im ecited when i log on and see what all my fellow snake lovers have to say. I do come here for information because even though ive owned snakes for over fifteen years there is always sombody who has a better idea or more creative way of taking care of there animals. ive learned if what your doing is not working try somthing else you may just find you get a better result. there are always new products to try and better setups. and never be afraid to ask and I have found its tuff to weed through all the info on the net. people who own burms love them people who do not own them have alot of negative things to say about them. i think if youve never owned one your opinion really does not matter i asked for answers about berms the poeple answeri9ng me should be the ones who own burms. no offence. like i said i like everybodys opinion so i can make up my own mind and at the end of the day i will decide if i can handleit or not. or i will decide to take the risk elegal or not. its my choice as smart as the human race is we can never all come together and agree on anything and untill then we will never be free. any ways piece and love and god bless us everyone. or what ever god or gods you may believe in. pieace out

[Pueblo]

much to think about

[Pueblo]

oh and just cause it says oshawa on my profile that doesnt mean i live in oshawa thats just a central location to were i live. i never take people to my house. and the pet shop in trouble is d&d exotics and they made huge mistakes.

[alessia55]

i think if youve never owned one your opinion really does not matter i asked for answers about berms the poeple answeri9ng me should be the ones who own burms. no offence.
I have to disagree with you. Someone who has owned a burmese python doesn't necessarily make them the one and only type of person to have a valid and correct opinion on them. One of my best friends (Kim, username Will0W783 member on here; very experienced) has a beautiful burm that I love. I have learned a whole lot about burms through this forum and through Kim. I'm not an expert, but I don't feel it's right for you to tell me I shouldn't have an opinion about them.
Here I am with Kim's burm:
http://i.imgur.com/k29ci.jpg

like i said i like everybodys opinion so i can make up my own mind and at the end of the day i will decide if i can handleit or not. or i will decide to take the risk elegal or not. its my choice as smart as the human race is we can never all come together and agree on anything and untill then we will never be free. any ways piece and love and god bless us everyone. or what ever god or gods you may believe in. pieace out
Yes, you will make whatever decision you make. I cannot force you to do or not do something you don't want to do. I never said I don't want you to get a burm. I've only urged you to respect the law because I feel strongly that abiding by the reptile laws in place is part of being a responsible reptile owner. I have not said anything that should offend you. I just hope you make the responsible decision.

[exwizard]

I have to say i just love this forum. the diversity in people and opinions is awsome. as for my spelling i know it sucks big time. but that does not make me stupid im just a little uneducated. also when i type really fast my spelling gets worse. and most of the time im ecited when i log on and see what all my fellow snake lovers have to say. I do come here for information because even though ive owned snakes for over fifteen years there is always sombody who has a better idea or more creative way of taking care of there animals. ive learned if what your doing is not working try somthing else you may just find you get a better result. there are always new products to try and better setups. and never be afraid to ask and I have found its tuff to weed through all the info on the net.

Well said and some of us need to answer these questions without judgement.

people who own burms love them people who do not own them have alot of negative things to say about them. i think if youve never owned one your opinion really does not matter i asked for answers about berms the poeple answeri9ng me should be the ones who own burms. no offence.

Ive never owned them but know people who do. I for one love them and hope Ill be able to have one someday (fat chance). Anyway, they are great snakes if youre prepared for their size potential.

like i said i like everybodys opinion so i can make up my own mind and at the end of the day i will decide if i can handleit or not. or i will decide to take the risk elegal or not. its my choice as smart as the human race is we can never all come together and agree on anything and untill then we will never be free. any ways piece and love and god bless us everyone. or what ever god or gods you may believe in. pieace out

Thats it exactly. Sometimes I find judgement to be quite thick around here and yes everybody has strong opinions but the bottom line is since its your decision and your consequences of that decision, you should be totally free to make that decision. I think its nuts when people get bent out of shape when their advice is not taken. Advice is just that; a suggestion that somebody does it another way, not an order to be obeyed.

[millertime89]

Although we may not like the laws in place by accepting them and not breaking them we show the general population we're not a bunch of thugs. If I move at summer's end I may have to give up my dwarf burm girl, not something I do lightly as I went to a lot of trouble to find her. In the end I lucked out and a friend had a friend.

[exwizard]

Is it illegal to have a Burm in Nebraska or Lincoln? If not why would you have to give her up?

[millertime89]

Is it illegal to have a Burm in Nebraska or Lincoln? If not why would you have to give her up?

If I move to Colorado.
I believe its illegal to have the giants in Sarpy county in Omaha. Its one of the Omaha counties.

[exwizard]

That sucks. Of all the giants, Burms have the best temperment. I never understood the thinking behind making Burms illegal.

[AaronRiot]

GTA limit is 3 meters. Oshawa "area" is no boids. I agree it's "stupid". I also agree (from what I've heard) D&D barked up trees they should not have, not to mention the state of the shop was very below standard.

Regardless, if you do get caught, you get fined and your animal is taken from you. Where do you think an illegal 15ft snake will be taken up here? Or your 10ft boa for that matter?

I dunno, I don't see it as risking "getting caught" I see it as risking the life of an animal you've made the decision to be responsible for. Meh, but what do I know right?

I would saying the thinking behind making big snakes illegal is that people tend to be impulsive, and that people who have no business keeping big snakes / venomous / insert other potentially dangerous animal here decide to buy one in the moment, from a vender looking for a sale because they just want it so bad right then and there. Maybe the cool factor, maybe infatuation, maybe status. In the end there is danger to the owner and people around them (if not properly attended to) as well as a danger to the animal that will likely be given up once its luster wears off or it becomes too much to handle.

I think the laws are legitimate. I also think that serious keepers should be able to go through a lengthy permit process. But then, I'm glad they don't sell automatic pistols at the quik-e mart, maybe I'm a rare breed.

[millertime89]

I think the laws are legitimate. I also think that serious keepers should be able to go through a lengthy permit process. But then, I'm glad they don't sell automatic pistols at the quik-e mart, maybe I'm a rare breed.

I agree, I've been saying this for a while. Are people still gonna get them without a permit? Sure, but it should at least keep 12 year olds from walking into the pet shop and coming home with a snake that's gonna be 7 feet within a year and 10+ by the next.

[exwizard]

GTA limit is 3 meters. Oshawa "area" is no boids. I agree it's "stupid". I also agree (from what I've heard) D&D barked up trees they should not have, not to mention the state of the shop was very below standard.

Regardless, if you do get caught, you get fined and your animal is taken from you. Where do you think an illegal 15ft snake will be taken up here? Or your 10ft boa for that matter?

I dunno, I don't see it as risking "getting caught" I see it as risking the life of an animal you've made the decision to be responsible for. Meh, but what do I know right?

I would saying the thinking behind making big snakes illegal is that people tend to be impulsive, and that people who have no business keeping big snakes / venomous / insert other potentially dangerous animal here decide to buy one in the moment, from a vender looking for a sale because they just want it so bad right then and there. Maybe the cool factor, maybe infatuation, maybe status. In the end there is danger to the owner and people around them (if not properly attended to) as well as a danger to the animal that will likely be given up once its luster wears off or it becomes too much to handle.

I think the laws are legitimate. I also think that serious keepers should be able to go through a lengthy permit process. But then, I'm glad they don't sell automatic pistols at the quik-e mart, maybe I'm a rare breed.

Several points I want to adress here. Here in Des Moines, we have a length limit of 6' unlessd you have a permit. This applies to all species. I have this permit which allows me to have everything the state allows. While I will probably never have a Burm, since Burms are legal in Iowa it is legal for me as well, even in Des Moines. I cant have Retics, Anacondas or African Rocks however since those species are outright banned in Iowa. I understand the reasoning behind needing a permit but other cities in the state dont even require this permit while still other cities dont allow snakes at all.

We are fortunate enough to have a guy who lives here in the metro by the name of Tom Weidner who has not only this permit but also a venemous permit so whenever a snake gets confiscated, he usually ends up with them. IMO this will guarantee that the snake in question will be well cared for and the need to euthanize is nill.

Ok the laws are legitimate. I wont argue that since they were passed in legitimate ways but most of the time these laws were passed by ignorant legislators who are reacting to fear and emotion rather than fact. The facts as I see them is that between cities that share borders there are contrasting snake ordinances yet there is no difference in the incidences that occur within the respective city limits.

All of that having been said, I want to steer back to the original request for info on Burms. I think they are great pets to have since of all the giants they have the best temperment, if youre prepared for their ultimate size. That includes having a secure enclosure that is big enough and also being willing to feed rabbits when their size requires it.

[AaronRiot]

Several points I want to adress here. Here in Des Moines, we have a length limit of 6' unlessd you have a permit. This applies to all species. I have this permit which allows me to have everything the state allows. While I will probably never have a Burm, since Burms are legal in Iowa it is legal for me as well, even in Des Moines. I cant have Retics, Anacondas or African Rocks however since those species are outright banned in Iowa. I understand the reasoning behind needing a permit but other cities in the state dont even require this permit while still other cities dont allow snakes at all.

We are fortunate enough to have a guy who lives here in the metro by the name of Tom Weidner who has not only this permit but also a venemous permit so whenever a snake gets confiscated, he usually ends up with them. IMO this will guarantee that the snake in question will be well cared for and the need to euthanize is nill.

Ok the laws are legitimate. I wont argue that since they were passed in legitimate ways but most of the time these laws were passed by ignorant legislators who are reacting to fear and emotion rather than fact. The facts as I see them is that between cities that share borders there are contrasting snake ordinances yet there is no difference in the incidences that occur within the respective city limits.

All of that having been said, I want to steer back to the original request for info on Burms. I think they are great pets to have since of all the giants they have the best temperment, if youre prepared for their ultimate size. That includes having a secure enclosure that is big enough and also being willing to feed rabbits when their size requires it.

My permit point - it causes pause. Person walks into expo. Person sees animal. Person wants animal. Breeder requests permit. Person does not have permit. Sale is denied. Person goes home, has time to think, makes a decision based on thinking rather than impulse. Just like a gun. Additionally, a breeder permit should be required. And fines should be high. In the thousands. Money makes people reconsider risk.

It would be nice if all cities had a bail out option for keepers to give away their animals to a safe place. Especially now that in the states certain species can't cross borders with you if you have to move in the next 30 years. Those in Des Moines are lucky to have Tom. IS there a Tom in every city? Obviously not.

"I want to steer back to the original request for info on Burms. I think they are great pets to have since of all the giants they have the best temperment, if youre prepared for their ultimate size. That includes having a secure enclosure that is big enough and also being willing to feed rabbits when their size requires it."

I agree. I would also say cheetahs may be the best of the big cats and if you're looking to get a bear go with a black one. The laws are put in place because there needs to be SOME management. I agree that the people that write the laws have no idea about whats up on this issue or many others. But there has to be something in place.

My point in posting in the first place is that the OP will put their animal at risk by simply purchasing it. For example. Burm grows to 14ft and gets an RI. OP cannot take the illegal animal to a vet in the GTA. So animal suffers or OP travels. If travel is chosen, the vet will know by address/ area code the OPs region, again putting the animal at risk. All it takes is one phone call.

[millertime89]

My permit point - it causes pause. Person walks into expo. Person sees animal. Person wants animal. Breeder requests permit. Person does not have permit. Sale is denied. Person goes home, has time to think, makes a decision based on thinking rather than impulse. Just like a gun. Additionally, a breeder permit should be required. And fines should be high. In the thousands. Money makes people reconsider risk.

It would be nice if all cities had a bail out option for keepers to give away their animals to a safe place. Especially now that in the states certain species can't cross borders with you if you have to move in the next 30 years. Those in Des Moines are lucky to have Tom. IS there a Tom in every city? Obviously not.

"I want to steer back to the original request for info on Burms. I think they are great pets to have since of all the giants they have the best temperment, if youre prepared for their ultimate size. That includes having a secure enclosure that is big enough and also being willing to feed rabbits when their size requires it."

I agree. I would also say cheetahs may be the best of the big cats and if you're looking to get a bear go with a black one. The laws are put in place because there needs to be SOME management. I agree that the people that write the laws have no idea about whats up on this issue or many others. But there has to be something in place.

My point in posting in the first place is that the OP will put their animal at risk by simply purchasing it. For example. Burm grows to 14ft and gets an RI. OP cannot take the illegal animal to a vet in the GTA. So animal suffers or OP travels. If travel is chosen, the vet will know by address/ area code the OPs region, again putting the animal at risk. All it takes is one phone call.

All great points. Luckily the rat breeder in our state is currently acting as the safe haven for burms that are being surrendered. I don't know what would happen if he didn't. I may end up selling him my dwarf girl if I move, there will be no "giving" with her.

[Terranaut]

So for the past few days I have avoided this thread .I saw the title and figured it would be a roast so I didn't click it. Well today curiosity got the best of me and I read all of it. Glad it went from a roast to something better .

No boids in Oshawa is crap. KW isn't going that route and I hope it stays that way.


Back to the burm not berm. As stated above you can't go from small snakes to a burm without some sort of intermediate snake or you need a mentor to teach you how to handle it at the worst of times before you ever bring one home. End of story.

[AaronRiot]

Back to the burm not berm. As stated above you can't go from small snakes to a burm without some sort of intermediate snake or you need a mentor to teach you how to handle it at the worst of times before you ever bring one home. End of story.

+1. The mentor thing is what you see consistently in the venomous sector, as well as getting into working with other wild animals that can do serious damage... It baffles me why it's not stressed more with the monster snakes. Sure you may learn as you go and be fine, however, make that one mistake.....

(I've never owned an animal over 9ft. I will own a retic at some point, somewhere where it is legal - I'm in the 3m GTA, and before I get involved I'll be settled and have gained experience with a lrg. adult. If those criteria are not met I do not feel that it would be a responsible 30+ year commitment. My opinion is the same with regards to venomous animals. I figured I should share where I'm coming from rather than spouting off opinions from thin air.)

Spiderman's uncle said it best lol "With great power comes great responsibility."

Yeah Oshawa is the last small city that has the blanket ban in the area, or so I've heard.

[exwizard]

My permit point - it causes pause. Person walks into expo. Person sees animal. Person wants animal. Breeder requests permit. Person does not have permit. Sale is denied. Person goes home, has time to think, makes a decision based on thinking rather than impulse. Just like a gun. Additionally, a breeder permit should be required. And fines should be high. In the thousands. Money makes people reconsider risk.

"I want to steer back to the original request for info on Burms. I think they are great pets to have since of all the giants they have the best temperment, if youre prepared for their ultimate size. That includes having a secure enclosure that is big enough and also being willing to feed rabbits when their size requires it."

I agree. I would also say cheetahs may be the best of the big cats and if you're looking to get a bear go with a black one. The laws are put in place because there needs to be SOME management. I agree that the people that write the laws have no idea about whats up on this issue or many others. But there has to be something in place.

My point in posting in the first place is that the OP will put their animal at risk by simply purchasing it. For example. Burm grows to 14ft and gets an RI. OP cannot take the illegal animal to a vet in the GTA. So animal suffers or OP travels. If travel is chosen, the vet will know by address/ area code the OPs region, again putting the animal at risk. All it takes is one phone call.

First point: A permit process would be great but in order gfor me to get this permit, I had to take a class on the care of big snakes. Thats all well and good but this class is rarely offered so if someone wanted to take this class they are S.O.L. I doubt that this class will be given again anytime soon.

Second point: Equating Burms with Cheetahs and Black Bears is irreleveant because those are obviously wild animals and the keeping of wild animals should be illegal IMO.

Third point: I agree with you on this one. An illegal snake does make it tougher as far as vet visits are concerned but what about in areas where Burms are legal? That issue then becomes null.

Back to the burm not berm. As stated above you can't go from small snakes to a burm without some sort of intermediate snake or you need a mentor to teach you how to handle it at the worst of times before you ever bring one home. End of story.

Would Black Betty count as an intermediate snake or is she also considered a giant even though shes a Dum at 9 1/2' long?

+1. The mentor thing is what you see consistently in the venomous sector, as well as getting into working with other wild animals that can do serious damage... It baffles me why it's not stressed more with the monster snakes. Sure you may learn as you go and be fine, however, make that one mistake.....

(I've never owned an animal over 9ft. I will own a retic at some point, somewhere where it is legal - I'm in the 3m GTA, and before I get involved I'll be settled and have gained experience with a lrg. adult. If those criteria are not met I do not feel that it would be a responsible 30+ year commitment. My opinion is the same with regards to venomous animals. I figured I should share where I'm coming from rather than spouting off opinions from thin air.) I never questioned our venemous laws. (Btw the permit requirements for venemous are next to impossible to attain here)Even if they were legal, I would never own them. It goes back to what I said before numerous times, "I wont keep a snake I cant handle" and venemous obviously fits that bill.

Before I finish these points, I also want to point out that all Im doing here is explaining my opinions and how I came to these opinions. Others will have different opinions and Im ok with that.

[AaronRiot]

First point: A permit process would be great but in order gfor me to get this permit, I had to take a class on the care of big snakes. Thats all well and good but this class is rarely offered so if someone wanted to take this class they are S.O.L. I doubt that this class will be given again anytime soon.

Second point: Equating Burms with Cheetahs and Black Bears is irreleveant because those are obviously wild animals and the keeping of wild animals should be illegal IMO.

Third point: I agree with you on this one. An illegal snake does make it tougher as far as vet visits are concerned but what about in areas where Burms are legal? That issue then becomes null.

If you can't wait for a permit then you are acting impulsively and have no business owning _______ that requires a permit. If there was a long wait time all the better, it weeds out the garden.

Two. Yes a cheetah or a bear or a cobra or an eagle or an elephant or a retic or an afrok or a burm or a salty all are very much in the same category of WILD ANIMALS THAT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO KILL YOU. To say a burm is not a wild animal is ridiculous. You may feel that way because you view them as a pet like a domesticated cat or dog. They are not such. They may not be as aggressive as a WC but that does not make them domestic. A 6th generation lion in a zoo is still a wild animal. If you have the blanket opinion that wild animals should be illegal that includes reptiles my friend.

People have this funny ability to personify animals they personally like as being friendly. Unfortunately this is a dangerous habit. This is especially true for the more reactionary animals, like snakes that have a feeding response that is triggered rather than chosen.

Obviously if burms are legal in ______ area the point I made is void. However, within the context of this thread that is not the case and encountering a health issue will lead to a moderate risk should the OP move forward in their acquisition.

:)

[Terranaut]

First point:


Would Black Betty count as an intermediate snake or is she also considered a giant even though shes a Dum at 9 1/2' long?
.


Was she that big when you got her? I would think she would qualify in my mind. A boa of any size IMHO is still not a burm. Also don't forget the growth rate of a burm.
So regardless of laws or whatever I still don't think this is a good idea at all with no disrespect intended towards the OP.

[exwizard]

If you can't wait for a permit then you are acting impulsively and have no business owning _______ that requires a permit. If there was a long wait time all the better, it weeds out the garden.

Two. Yes a cheetah or a bear or a cobra or an eagle or an elephant or a retic or an afrok or a burm or a salty all are very much in the same category of WILD ANIMALS THAT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO KILL YOU. To say a burm is not a wild animal is ridiculous. You may feel that way because you view them as a pet like a domesticated cat or dog. They are not such. They may not be as aggressive as a WC but that does not make them domestic. A 6th generation lion in a zoo is still a wild animal. If you have the blanket opinion that wild animals should be illegal that includes reptiles my friend.

People have this funny ability to personify animals they personally like as being friendly. Unfortunately this is a dangerous habit. This is especially true for the more reactionary animals, like snakes that have a feeding response that is triggered rather than chosen.

Obviously if burms are legal in ______ area the point I made is void. However, within the context of this thread that is not the case and encountering a health issue will lead to a moderate risk should the OP move forward in their acquisition.

:) I feel like Im debating Aaron S, so I will stop now because there is no end to that. Have fun with your opinions because they are not mine. :)

[exwizard]

Was she that big when you got her? I would think she would qualify in my mind. A boa of any size IMHO is still not a burm. Also don't forget the growth rate of a burm.
So regardless of laws or whatever I still don't think this is a good idea at all with no disrespect intended towards the OP.
I agree with your last statement for someone with no experience with big snakes and to answer your question, Black Betty was that size when I got her. I was just curious if she qualified as an intermediate size snake or not. I will not get a Burm anytime soon because I just dont have the cage space for one. That having been said, they are legal here and I find them personally facinating. The OP on the other hand is not in that situation as Burms are illegal there so in that case I would strongly advise against acquiring one until he is in an area that allows them.

[AaronRiot]

I feel like Im debating Aaron S, so I will stop now because there is no end to that. Have fun with your opinions because they are not mine. :)

Gladly :) concession accepted.

A final thought, exwizard, sometimes opinions blur facts. With that being said, many of my points were opinion. The wild animal bit is fact. A burmese python is a wild animal. The inability to comprehend this is a potentially dangerous pipe dream. It can kill you, and will not/ cannot think twice about doing so if the stimulus warrants the reaction.


To the OP and anyone else, I am fully for keeping these animals, any animal for that matter, as long as it is a well thought out, planned decision. One must take responsibility for their actions and mitigate risks appropriately both to themselves as well as the captive.

[exwizard]

Gladly :) concession accepted.

A final thought, exwizard, sometimes opinions blur facts. With that being said, many of my points were opinion. The wild animal bit is fact. A burmese python is a wild animal. The inability to comprehend this is a potentially dangerous pipe dream. It can kill you, and will not/ cannot think twice about doing so if the stimulus warrants the reaction.


To the OP and anyone else, I am fully for keeping these animals, any animal for that matter, as long as it is a well thought out, planned decision. One must take responsibility for their actions and mitigate risks appropriately both to themselves as well as the captive. You sound exactly like Aaron S especially your tendency to always want the last word and I detect a little arrogance in there as well. I wouldnt be surprised if you two were one in the same.

What you said in bold is your opinion. Burms sold by breeders are by definition captive bred. That is fact. I will not ever have any wild snakes. That is also fact so go ahead and live in your opinions, I refuse to be blinded by your opinions or anyone elses. As I said, have fun.

[Lankyrob]

My 0.03 - just because any animal is captive bred it doesnt stop it being a wild animal :)

[exwizard]

My 0.03 - just because any animal is captive bred it doesnt stop it being a wild animal :)

Fine, if Burms are wild then release them all back to the wild and see how long they last. I guess we should release all our snakes back to the wild as well since that is what they are. Right? Idts.

I know what a wild snake is and Ive seen them before. Rob, I respect you and your knowledge and Im done debating because as I said, there is no end and no opinions are ever changed.

[Lankyrob]

They are all WILD animals, they may be kept and bred in captivity but they are not domesticated like a dog or cat would be.

No idea what "idts" means?

[exwizard]

Idts means "I dont think so"

[exwizard]

Gladly :) concession accepted.

A final thought, exwizard, sometimes opinions blur facts. With that being said, many of my points were opinion. The wild animal bit is fact. A burmese python is a wild animal. The inability to comprehend this is a potentially dangerous pipe dream. It can kill you, and will not/ cannot think twice about doing so if the stimulus warrants the reaction.I so want to get a Burm just to spite you but I know thats the wrong reason to get one so I will pass on that thought.

[Lankyrob]

Ahhh thanks :)

[exwizard]

Ahhh thanks :)Anytime :) Sorry I shouldve spelled it out long hand the first time.

[AaronRiot]

Semantics....

WC / CB = WILD
Domestic (ie your family dog) = Domestic

Just because snakes come in shiny new suits nowadays (see albinism) it has no effect on instinct and millenia of ingrained behaviour.

In my opinion, as stated before, I think it is perfectly fine to keep wild animals. Preferably CB wild animals.

Burms in the wild - see Florida. No offense, but a ridiculous comment. And yeah they're not "thriving", that is due to temps NOT an inability to sustain themselves. Take a CB Cali King and let it go in Cali and see what happens. Lol.


With respect to debating and a change of ideas. In order for one to have such a thing requires an open mind and keeping ones emotions out of such a discussion.

For example I've ignored the comments posted about my apparent arrogance etc. and chosen not to comment on or make comments personal.

Discussion is a fantastic learning medium.

As an aside, I do not know Aaron S.

[alessia55]

I'm also a believer that snakes (no matter how "tame"/CBB) are always wild animals. My Kaybe is a total sweetheart; never strikes at anyone, tolerates everything, and is the epitome of how great a pet snake can be. That being said, I think he would definitely survive if he was freed into the wild (given that he's released into the natural territory of ball pythons; NOT my backyard). I think he's learned to tolerate captive life, but captivity is a lifestyle, rather than what his true instinct calls him to be (wild). I am so exhausted and I'm going to bed. I might wake up and find that I wrote this in a sleepy delirium, so forgive me if I'm existential / making no sense. :laugh:

[USMCgunner11]

I agree with the majority here that no matter how much we attempt to "tame" these magnificent animals we cannot undo their primitive instincts. They tolerate us but do not love us and the ones with the capacity to kill will do so without compassion. Granted, a CB snake may be easier to manage than its wild counterpart, but that doesn't mean it's gonna grab your morning newspaper, play fetch or be happy to see you when you walk in the door (yes I know it's and extreme example but still emphasizes my/ our point)

[exwizard]

I guess this is another case of I dont care what the majority opinion is here. Its not the first time. It wont be the last. Its not the first issue. It wont be the last.

[Terranaut]

You guys are arguing over what word to use for the same thing.
Lets try to term them as "non domesticated captive animals". Our animals , unlike domesticated animals, can snap into wild 100% instinct mode. A domesticated animal even one that is mean or viscious isn't acting on instinct alone.Those know better. Ours do not. We aclimatize them to human contact and thats it. But we are ok with that and understand the risks. Most of the time the risks are small and easy to accept but in some cases (like this one) the risks are high and require a degree of experience that leaves little to no room for error in judgement within a very short period of time. Because burms grow fast and they grow big.And yes they are "potentialy" dangerous, don't fool yourselves. Imagine a new snake owner as a new gun owner.That has never shot before and you give them a loaded 90mm anti aircraft gun. Did you just chuckle and see the person getting hit by the recoil or going deaf from the blast? Thats a burm freaking out. Takes less than 5 sec for you to read the snake before its to late. Chances are the recoil will miss the shooter or that he will anticipate the volume of the blast but there is that chance. This entire thread is based on an "if" but IMHO it more of a "when" and IMHO I would not risk it even with th knowledge I have gained from the snakes I have now. I am quiet a few "ooops's" from getting a giant. I hope the OP understands my opinion. Go get your blackbelt before jumping into the octagon ;)

[Caylan]

You think a snake goes primal, try pushing me a little too far.... Everyone/thing is wild when pushed far enough...

[KORBIN5895]

Semantics....

WC / CB = WILD
Domestic (ie your family dog) = Domestic.

What about cbb? Also you obviously never read Cujo.

You think a snake goes primal, try pushing me a little too far.... Everyone/thing is wild when pushed far enough...

This is something I agree with completely. Put anything in an corner or injure it and the tell me how domestic it is.

Sorry to derail the thread but maybe Chuck, Kyle or Stephan can give Pueblo some advice or pointers on Burms or giants in general. Again sorry to interrupt.

[Pueblo]

dogs and cats turn on there owners all the time so do pet rodents and birds i even know a guy who got attacked by his fish. nobody has mentioned mental illness like altimers as animals get older there brains and organs and muscle tissue break down just like all life forms. there fore why wouldnt they forget that you.ve had them since birth or all the great days you took them out and watched tv with them in your lap. and in the wild they eat what they want when they can catch it. but in captivty they have to wait seven days or two weeks or when ever we feel a good time for them is to eat.

[Pueblo]

we may have a million good days with our animals but they have feelings to and why should they not be allowed to feel sick or have a tummy ach. also maybe they just really want to sleep in but they can't tell us they dont want to get up. and when they are shedding and they cant see as good and there old skin is itching them like crazy and we want to handle them. maybe we get away with it a thousand times but one day will come and you probably wont be ready for it. ive never had my day yet but i have had some near misses and the bigger the mouth and the larger the teeth the more happy i am not to get bitten by them on a bad day.

[Pueblo]

if a large snake like a burm or a boa or ritic bite you there teeth are digging into your flesh and they grip hard. and how many of us are able to not jerk our arm or face away from being stuck in that kind of grip. so you jerk your face or arm away and this causes your flesh to rip and more damage to be done. they recomend you dont do this that you wait for the snake to release you and the damage will be less but in the spur of the moment who has that kind of controll. theres somthing to think about. and trust me when i watch tv with my wife and my large female boa once and a while i think about those things. and remember to show my big sanke some respect. and as for my wife shes been well informed of how bad a big snake can be but she still loves ours anyways.we cant help but love her and we pray the day never comes that she gets the better of us.

[Pueblo]

my last post i spelled sanke but i ment snake

[exwizard]

Funny thing is I have such a disdain for debates yet I keep finding myself in them. It really doesn't matter to me what I people think. I just need to let things be.

[Norm66]

Funny thing is I have such a disdain for debates yet I keep finding myself in them. It really doesn't matter to me what I people think. I just need to let things be.

If there's one thing I've learned on the internet in general and on this site in particular is that no matter what you argue, which side of whatever debate you're on, no minds will be changed. :freakedout:

FWIW, I really don't think that Burms, retics etc. are really in the same class of dangerous as large apes, lions, tigers, bears etc. and feel strongly that they should be dealt with separately even though I agree, CB or wild caught they're still potentially dangerous animals and must be treated with the same respect as a weapon.

As for the difference between wild and domestic, I do think that captive raised wild animals are a distinct sub-group sort of between the two. Depends on the animal in question which end of the temperment they fall on, but it seems to be common knowledge that CBB snakes in general have better temperments than their wild-caught counterparts. Of course they should still be treated with the utmost respect for the damage they can do I'm just saying the number of dangerous incidents is likely less with cbb than with w/c.

[millertime89]

This is something I agree with completely. Put anything in an corner or injure it and the tell me how domestic it is.

Sorry to derail the thread but maybe Chuck, Kyle or Stephan can give Pueblo some advice or pointers on Burms or giants in general. Again sorry to interrupt.

I agree completely as well. We're inherently instinctual beings. Fight or flight? Breeding? There's a reason as a population we're getting fat, throughout our history there have been food shortages so we eat whenever food is available to store up for times of shortage, guess what? In the US, those times are pretty much nonexistent for the majority.

I said my piece about burms earlier, I'll post again if the OP has more questions.

[exwizard]

If there's one thing I've learned on the internet in general and on this site in particular is that no matter what you argue, which side of whatever debate you're on, no minds will be changed. :freakedout:

FWIW, I really don't think that Burms, retics etc. are really in the same class of dangerous as large apes, lions, tigers, bears etc. and feel strongly that they should be dealt with separately even though I agree, CB or wild caught they're still potentially dangerous animals and must be treated with the same respect as a weapon.

As for the difference between wild and domestic, I do think that captive raised wild animals are a distinct sub-group sort of between the two. Depends on the animal in question which end of the temperment they fall on, but it seems to be common knowledge that CBB snakes in general have better temperments than their wild-caught counterparts. Of course they should still be treated with the utmost respect for the damage they can dom I'm just saying the number of dangerous incidents is likely less with cbb than with w/c.

I agree completely as well. We're inherently instinctual beings. Fight or flight? Breeding? There's a reason as a population we're getting fat, throughout our history there have been food shortages so we eat whenever food is available to store up for times of shortage, guess what? In the US, those times are pretty much nonexistent for the majority.

I said my piece about burms earlier, I'll post again if the OP has more questions. Amen to both these replies in their entirety.

[millertime89]

You can never totally get away from instinct, that's all I'm saying. I do think some snakes are able to recognize familiar people whether its by site, smell, or both. Retics especially seem to be "plotting" however that could be a result of their glowing orange eyes. That said I do feel these animals are more intelligent than we give them credit for, its just there seems to be no way of testing it. At least none that I've heard of. How "tame" they are is in the eye of the beholder.

[AaronRiot]

There are A LOT of ways of testing. For the most part, snakes are reactionary. It is what it is. We can personify whatever. We're people and good at it.

Norm::: I completely disagree. If people did not discuss where would we be? I get that interweb arguments have a tendency to go nowhere, however, light a spark and you can change the world. You never know who you're talking to on here. Who am I??? All you know is I'm lippy and live in Canada...and if youve read my past posts I used to keep a lot of herps, I (had) plans to get a GTP, showed the world my enclosure, and disappeared for a bit. But who am I??? Who are you influencing with your words?

Wiz.... I'm sorry I did not do a better job at elaborating my points. And if I used words that bothered you it was unintentional. I have strong views, and when an argument is put forth without fact I fight it. Research the topic. I'm afraid I am not out of line with regards to semantics.

WITH THAT being said.. Pueblo... I respect your understanding of snakes. It seems like you know whats up. With that being said, I think realistically, in the location you are in, a Burm is out of the question if you respect the life of the animal. Move out of the GTA and I say go for it; with responsibility, education, and determination. You need experience with a giant first in order to be responsible though.

[KORBIN5895]

. But who am I???

Stephen Harper

[exwizard]

AaronRiot, we will have our disagreemenents. Thats ok with me. I do respect you and your opinions, even though I will never agree with some of them. Im just a snake guy who loves big snakes even though the biggest I have is only a 9 1/2' Dum. I will never have a Retic, an Anaconda or an African Rock because they are illegal here. I will probably never have a Burm even though they are legal here just simply because I dont have the necessary housing for one.

Pueblo, Burms are great to have as pets IMO if you are prepared for their eventual size and that DOES include having the necessary housing for them. However, in your case, I would not recommend having one simply because they are illegal where you live.

[AaronRiot]

Stephen Harper


Lol that was weak. C'mon you can do better than that can't you?

[KORBIN5895]

Lol that was weak. C'mon you can do better than that can't you?

Well you definitely are not Batman because that's me.

Are you that snakeman?

[millertime89]

Well you definitely are not Batman because that's me.

Are you that snakeman?

No, that's Jerry.

[KORBIN5895]

No I am talking about the idiot on YouTube. The one that's says brb are an invasive species in Ontario.

[millertime89]

Oh lawdy... link?

[KORBIN5895]

YouTube snake man.

[Pueblo]

well i must say its not because of laws that i wont own a burm but there are alot of good reasons for me not to own one. and it was the owners of burms who have covinced me that im not ready to take on that kind of chalenge. i already have one beutiful monster to look after and she has most of my attention as it is. bringing home more snakes of any kind at this point would just take away from the time i have with my others. but thanks everybody for all the info it was valuable to me in making a huge choice.

[marvelfreak]

Good to hear you made a info decision.

[millertime89]

I applaud your sensible decision. I think, when the time is right, you'll make a good Burmese keeper if you keep that levelheadedness and open mind about you.

[Lankyrob]

^^^^ what he said ^^^ :)

[Pueblo]

thanks everybody im glad to have a place to come and chat with like minded poeple. your all great and theres nothng wrong with a good debate as long as we all stick together in the end for the betterment of our passion for reptiles. god bless us everyone