Finally saw the wrath of my burm

[RandyRhoads]

Rattlesnakes all day long, no problem. Giant python in a feeding response, no thanks, let's not do that again. I couldn't get my burm to eat outside so I tried inside. After she finally killed it and started on the head I tried to get out the door. She instantly let go and started hissing loud as hell and violently striking at me. She is amazingly friendly when not in food mode. She was nice and toasty, fast and mean. I was cornered and I had no way to get to the door, had dropped my hook and all I had to fend her off was a step stool, which wasn't working too well. This is why 2 people are a must, i'm glad I had someone there to help block the strikes while passing me a noose wand to get her under control long enough to get out of the corner and escape. Good lesson learned, always have a second person, and a back up plan. Giant pythons can land you in more trouble than hots....



Still trying to find someone to take my red tail and albino burm for free. I don't need another monster to deal with like that, especially since he's always aggressive.

[Trollbie]

Rattlesnakes all day long, no problem. Giant python in a feeding response, no thanks, let's not do that again. I couldn't get my burm to eat outside so I tried inside. After she finally killed it and started on the head I tried to get out the door. She instantly let go and started hissing loud as hell and violently striking at me. She is amazingly friendly when not in food mode. She was nice and toasty, fast and mean. I was cornered and I had no way to get to the door, had dropped my hook and all I had to fend her off was a step stool, which wasn't working too well. This is why 2 people are a must, i'm glad I had someone there to help block the strikes while passing me a noose wand to get her under control long enough to get out of the corner and escape. Good lesson learned, always have a second person, and a back up plan. Giant pythons can land you in more trouble than hots....



Still trying to find someone to take my red tail and albino burm for free. I don't need another monster to deal with like that, especially since he's always aggressive.

Is the red tail one that's sick?

[shaunyboy]

never ceases to amaze me how FAST my friends,12 to 14 ft burm is when in feeding mode,the power he hits the prey with is something else as well :shocked:

they can't half move for something so large:laugh:

my mates burm is very vocal as well Randy,he will hiss and hiss,but to date has not struck at anyone

an adult burm has huge amounts of strength mate

cheers shaun

[CDN_Blood]

Wow. Burmese are not toys, and even the smallest mistake will have big consequences. You have to know what you're doing if you get in to these animals. They demand respect and if you act the fool with them, they're going to teach you a hard lesson, if you survive their teachings, that is.

[shaunyboy]

Wow. Burmese are not toys, and even the smallest mistake will have big consequences. You have to know what you're doing if you get in to these animals. They demand respect and if you act the fool with them, they're going to teach you a hard lesson, if you survive their teachings, that is.

my mates worked at a local reptile centre,the big burm actually winded him

it struck him in the stomach with a closed mouth (more of a head butt) and if it wasn't for the 2nd keeper dragging my mate out,things may have went real bad for him :sad:

i agree with you mate,large snakes,demand large respect imo;)

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

See! That's why I like my boas. I think giants are nice to look at but I just can't see owning one.

[Will0W783]

Why was the snake not secured the moment it had struck its food??? You always have to assume that a snake who is eating or has recently fed will be in "feeding mode" and have taken precautions for safety BEFORE food has entered the room. You were lucky this time- you might not be next time.

[Trollbie]

See! That's why I like my boas. I think giants are nice to look at but I just can't see owning one.

This is how I feel too. And venomous snakes. I admire those who dare to keep animals like these!

[Will0W783]

It's a matter of being prepared for the animal, and doing lots and lots of research. I adore my Burm and my retics, but I never work with them unless my fiance is in the room, we have python hooks and tear-proof gloves and they are all fed inside their enclosures- the doors are shut immediately after the snake grabs its prey. I feed all f/t, on the end of long tongs or wrenches in the case of large rabbits. My hots are handled with gloves, hooks, and secure holding cans. I use trap/shift boxes whenever possible.

Giant constrictors can be wonderful captives- my three are very tame and easy to work with, but if I changed the routine they are used to, or frightened them, they could very easily kill me. I know that, and I respect that. Anyone who keeps these snakes must.

[Snakefood]

sounds like a scary moment there Randy.

That's why I like my corns and B/P's!!

[RandyRhoads]

Why was the snake not secured the moment it had struck its food??? You always have to assume that a snake who is eating or has recently fed will be in "feeding mode" and have taken precautions for safety BEFORE food has entered the room. You were lucky this time- you might not be next time.


Secured the moment it had struck its food.... Trying to figure that one out...

Sounds like you're saying somehow move it back inside after it struck the prey, but that can't be what you mean...

As I stated in other posts I normally feed outside because a room just isn't big enough for the rolling and wrapping. She has been refusing outside so I went back to inside, and this time I just ended up on the wrong side with her between me and the door. I did assume she would be in feeding mode, but I have never seen her stop ingesting her food and turn like that. I was prepared, had a plan and used it. Thist is just the first time I HAD TO. All the other times i've waited to have someone go with me when feeding and handling "just in case" always seemed kind of stupid because there was never even a hint of anything like that happening. Now i'm glad I did have a backup person and plan, and see the importance of never attemping that alone.

[Snakefood]

I wonder if you had stayed still till she had the meal halfway down if that would have made the difference????

Like I said, I know nothing about the giants!! but maybe if she had a mouthfull, you could have slipped out without incident.

[Norm66]

So do I understand that you take your burm outside to feed? Like, all the way out of the house and into the backyard outside? That could be cool, but dealing with a burm still in feed mode doesn't sound like any fun. Same deal with just doing it in your reptile room. Why not just feed in his enclosure?

[RandyRhoads]

Snakefood- She had already gotten it part way down, that's why it was such a shock.



Norm- After feeding her outside of her enclosure I never feel like it would be large enough for the chaos, and worry about the glass doors somehow getting broken in the scuffle. When I feed her outside i'm normally out there for hours reading or something and she cools off before I bring her in. And when I do, I am extremely carefull and alert for her to turn. Using two people in case she does.

[Snakefood]

OK, I guess that would be a shock then!!

[Norm66]

Hmm... I'd love to see a video. Mine is only 7' but he really doesn't gyrate all that much. He's all business: strike, bite, constrict and eat.

[RandyRhoads]

You probablly feed F/T though don't you?

[Norm66]

Yep............

[RandyRhoads]

With rabbits I feed live. It can be quite a struggle, especially if the rabbit breaks free and she has to mow it down again, twice as angry.

[Will0W783]

As I stated in other posts I normally feed outside because a room just isn't big enough for the rolling and wrapping. She has been refusing outside so I went back to inside, and this time I just ended up on the wrong side with her between me and the door

Why on earth would you let yourself get between a feeding snake and your escape hatch??? If you are feeding the animal loose in a room, that is insanely dangerous. If you are feeding it outside of your house...dear God, why??? Do you have neighbors? What would happen if a neighborhood kid wandered by when your snake was in feeding mode?

[millertime89]

How big is his enclosure? This is the exact reason the entire giant community agrees feeding the big ones in their cage is the only way to go.

[jaleely]

Live rabbits. I have a snake that had been fed live rabbits. He has a nice huge rip scar down his belly from the rabbit kicking him. I remember when i had a pet dwarf rabbit as a kid. Kicked me once, and gave me a huge bloody scar down my arm.

Adopted a 4ft ball python from the pound, whom i walked in just as they were feeding it a small live mouse...and the mouse bit and pulled off a scale while i watched and before i could point it out. Seems anything with teeth and claws could damage even a snake 20 times it's size.
Just an observation.

Maybe you can build a wooden box to put her in, and leave her in while she feeds, rather than putting her outside where escape may be possible, or inside where she may do some damage or get to you easily. You could even cut a small slit along the length of the top, so that you can use tongs to dangle a dead prey item back and forth to entice her.

Also, i thought your other snakes were the ones that were sickly, too.

[Will0W783]

Randy, if your Burm's cage is not large enough for it to comfortably eat inside of, then the cage is not adequate for it to be kept in. I'm not trying to be mean man, but you really REALLY need to think long and hard about your keeping/feeding practices. Feeding a massive, potentially deadly giant constrictor outside of a secure enclosure is a disaster waiting to happen.

[RandyRhoads]

There's nothing wrong with feeding it outside where I live. I live in the country. And if for some reason there are people out and about exploring the countryside I can either wait, or there is a chain link dog kennel to put them in.

Maybe the enclosure is big enough, but I never feel like it is. 8' X 4', and I forget the height, I think 2 1/2. And what about the chance of substrate ingestion?

By all means keep jumping down my s%$% it's not like I said I learned something from this.:pissedoff:

F/T would be great for me because of how insanely far from a reptile shop with rabbits I am, but past attempts haven't proven to be effective.....

[millertime89]

A burm takes pisses larger than any clump of substrate, I wouldn't be too worried about impaction.
That cage is PLENTY big enough for a big ole burm to eat in. Especially if its as tall as you think it is. Keep trying f/t rabbits, its a burm, eventually it'll take f/t, it just might take all day to heat one up. While I don't have a problem with you taking your big Burm outside, but feeding him out of his enclosure is just asking for a huge black eye on the giant community, one that we don't need right now. Please, I emplore you, feed him in his enclosure, keep yourself safe, and wait him out on f/t.

[KORBIN5895]

There's nothing wrong with feeding it outside where I live. I live in the country. And if for some reason there are people out and about exploring the countryside I can either wait, or there is a chain link dog kennel to put them in.

Maybe the enclosure is big enough, but I never feel like it is. 8' X 4', and I forget the height, I think 2 1/2. And what about the chance of substrate ingestion?

By all means keep jumping down my s%$% it's not like I said I learned something from this.:pissedoff:

F/T would be great for me because of how insanely far from a reptile shop with rabbits I am, but past attempts haven't proven to be effective.....
Isn't it illegal to lock people in cages?

[Trollbie]

Isn't it illegal to lock people in cages?

It shouldn't be... :p

[Necrias]

There's nothing wrong with feeding it outside where I live. I live in the country. And if for some reason there are people out and about exploring the countryside I can either wait, or there is a chain link dog kennel to put them in.

Maybe the enclosure is big enough, but I never feel like it is. 8' X 4', and I forget the height, I think 2 1/2. And what about the chance of substrate ingestion?

By all means keep jumping down my s%$% it's not like I said I learned something from this.:pissedoff:

F/T would be great for me because of how insanely far from a reptile shop with rabbits I am, but past attempts haven't proven to be effective.....

I want to jump down your throat like some of the others, but I know that will make you feel even more indignant and do nothing to help you or the situation... plus, I have been in your shoes, in a sense.

When I got my first burm, it was a rescue from a local BP "breeder" that didn't realize how big burms get and how fast they can grow. As a result, he was only fed live every 4-6 weeks for the whole first year of his life (until I took him last July), and only mice at that. Needless to say, he was underfed, maladjusted, and misbehaved when I got him. He took f/t mice at first, but refused f/t rats. So then I caved and gave him a live rat, which he took. I kept trying to switch him, but he refused, so I kept giving him live. I tried doing f/k once, but hated killing the rat myself (and I don't even like rodents!), so went back to live. Eventually, my burm got bit pretty bad, and even though I was able to reach in and dislocate the rat's neck almost immediately, the rat took three good chunks out of his side.

Luckily, I have a very good local exotic vet, and she put him on antibiotics to eliminate even the risk of infection. For six weeks (!) I had to have someone hold him down while I gave him intramuscular injections every three days. Not fun, for me or the burm. I decided that during this time, I wasn't even going to OFFER him food (he was barely 4 ft at the time) in hopes that six weeks without food would make him reconsider his picky eating habits. I gave in around the four week mark when he gave me a look like the pic below, and to my surprise he immediately took the F/T rat, and has done so ever since! Have a feeling bunnies will be tricky though...

Point of the story: if your burm is big enough to eat rabbits, it can go a LOOOONG time without food. If I were you, maybe try a smaller F/K bunny (snap its neck, look up how to do it), then offer it a F/T after. Failing that... just don't offer food for a while. Only offer every 4 weeks, I wouldn't even begin to be concerned until the 6 month mark.

Also, 8x4x2.5 is a pretty darn big cage. I personally think the size "requirements" of many caresheets is exaggerated, most snakes feel safer and do better in a smaller cage. I have 6x2.5x1.5 AP cages for my burms, and will only buy an 8 foot cage if the female turns out to be a 16+ft monster. What size is your burm currently?

Again, I'm just trying to help and keep you, your snake, and the herp community as a whole safe. Understand that those that are jumping at you are only doing so because the herp community (especially giant keepers) don't need any more bad press!

EDIT: forgot the pic!

[RandyRhoads]

Isn't it illegal to lock people in cages?


Bahahaha Korbin, I need to work on my wording. Although most of the people that come out I would like to lock up in a cage.

I don't see how feeding outside puts "a big black eye on the giant community"...... Maybe I need to take a picture so you can get the idea of where I live.... there is no one looking, unless they're in a a plane...lol....


I'll definitely try feeding in her enclosure next time if there is no risk of impaction. Even if I can get her to finally switch to pre killed, what happens when she refuses. You put it in the freezer again, and when you want to try again wait a day to thaw, then repeat. That sounds like alot of freezing/unfreezing, which is why I gave up before. Isn't there some sort of danger with all that thawing?

[KORBIN5895]

I personally refreeze my rats only once.

[RandyRhoads]

So I'm going to have to waste a rabbit every time she refuses....That's not going to work for me I can barely afford her food as it is let alone waste a couple months worth.

[Necrias]

So I'm going to have to waste a rabbit every time she refuses....That's not going to work for me I can barely afford her food as it is let alone waste a couple months worth.

A box of 5x 6-8 lb rabbits from RodentPro comes to $103 dollars for me. Offered once per month, that is five months worth of food at a cost of about $20 per month. If you can't afford that, why did you get a burm? Dog food costs more than that!

[KORBIN5895]

I think Randy is between jobs atm.

[RandyRhoads]

Disabled vet still waiting on disability.....


And I can afford that, but I can't afford wasting that if she doesn't eat it.

[Necrias]

Disabled vet still waiting on disability.....


And I can afford that, but I can't afford wasting that if she doesn't eat it.

Fair enough, I respect that. But really, you aren't wasting the rabbit. She doesn't NEED to eat until she starts losing significant amounts of weight. Perhaps you could only offer every 6-8 weeks instead of 4. If she refuses, do NOT give her live. It may be 6-12 months before her health becomes an issue and you would be justified in feeding live. Regardless, only feed her in her cage, you do not need to risk an injury to yourself, the snake, or the rest of us.

[RandyRhoads]

If that's true then I will give it a shot! I knew they could go months without eating but I didn't think it was healthy for them, especially 6-12 months.

I'm kind of looking forward to this, i'll probablly save alot of money in the long run with gas, and having them ready. Going to have to start clearing out my freezer full of dead reptiles to make room for rabbits.

[exwizard]

If that's true then I will give it a shot! I knew they could go months without eating but I didn't think it was healthy for them, especially 6-12 months.

I'm kind of looking forward to this, i'll probablly save alot of money in the long run with gas, and having them ready. Going to have to start clearing out my freezer full of dead reptiles to make room for rabbits.


Ok I cant resist a little digression here. This remind sme of a guy we bought a bunch of mice from who after showing us his snake collection, he then showed us his frozen snake collection. :p

Now back to the topic at hand...

I think youll do well with rodentpro for these rabbits if you can get enough to justify their shipping costs. :)

[RandyRhoads]

Lol. Wasn't me, they were dead reptiles from a store owner I was friends with. He would give me dead pets people brought in, in exchange for tanned hides. Good practice and I got some cool wall pieces out of it. And a stuffed beardy...lol

[exwizard]

Lol. Wasn't me, they were dead reptiles from a store owner I was friends with. He would give me dead pets people brought in, in exchange for tanned hides. Good practice and I got some cool wall pieces out of it. And a stuffed beardy...lol

Yeah I know it wasnt you. Youre in SoCal I believe and this guy is in southern Iowa.

[RandyRhoads]

Sorry I meant it wasn't me that killed them. My husbandrys not that off to have a freezer full of dead reptiles. If it was I would have to give up completely :D

[exwizard]

He was just as proud of his frozen ones as his live ones.

[RandyRhoads]

Why lol what was there to be proud of??

[exwizard]

No clue. He was just weird.

[Necrias]

If that's true then I will give it a shot! I knew they could go months without eating but I didn't think it was healthy for them, especially 6-12 months.

I'm kind of looking forward to this, i'll probablly save alot of money in the long run with gas, and having them ready. Going to have to start clearing out my freezer full of dead reptiles to make room for rabbits.

Assuming your burm is of a "healthy" weight (not too fat, not too skinny) that time range should be no problem. Longer than that if it is already overweight... but I wouldn't worry until its weight drops at least 10%. Weigh her now, then if she hasn't eaten in 6 months, weigh her again (and every month after that) and make your decision based on that. Good luck!

Ok I cant resist a little digression here. This remind sme of a guy we bought a bunch of mice from who after showing us his snake collection, he then showed us his frozen snake collection. :p

Now back to the topic at hand...

I think youll do well with rodentpro for these rabbits if you can get enough to justify their shipping costs. :)

You need to start breeding rabbits... like right now. The best local source I found is $10 any size, but I'd rather go through someone I know :)

Also, probably gonna need rat pups soon, my critters are eating through my reserve faster than I anticipated... even though I just put an order into RP for a bunch of larger rats :p

EDIT: is it sad that thinking about frozen reptiles makes me more sad than frozen mammals/rodents? lol

[RandyRhoads]

I'd like to breed rabbits but I wont in case I have to move. Not until i'm steady with income and a home.

[millertime89]

So you're gonna for sure start feeding in the enclosure? Not only is this about your safety, but the snake's safety and the status of the community.

I'm pulling for you to get your benefits that you deserve. Its crap what you're being put through for serving our country.

[jaleely]

You could always switch to newspaper or something for substrate.
And as for refreezing, it's not really a problem. Pythons and constrictors can eat already dead and decomposing flesh. Thawing and refrreezing doesn't hurt the food item, and though it may stink after a while, any harmful bacteria that may be present is killed by the freezing process. Facts.

[KORBIN5895]

So you're gonna for sure start feeding in the enclosure? Not only is this about your safety, but the snake's safety and the status of the community.

I'm pulling for you to get your benefits that you deserve. Its crap what you're being put through for serving our country.

Is anyone else starting to see a pattern? Huh? Anyone? Kingsnakechris?

[RandyRhoads]

So you're gonna for sure start feeding in the enclosure? Not only is this about your safety, but the snake's safety and the status of the community.

I'm pulling for you to get your benefits that you deserve. Its crap what you're being put through for serving our country.


Yes. Would have been easier from the start but I thought it was too small, and the substrate was a risk for impaction.

[millertime89]

Good deal, and like Jaleely said, if you're still concerned about impaction you could always switch to newspaper. 4 or 5 layers is enough to keep any piss from making it stick, usually.

[RandyRhoads]

When using newspaper how do you insulate the head pad? I guess a rheostat is mandatory without substrate?

[millertime89]

Just turn it down, set surface temp to 88* or whatever you want the basking spot to be. No need to insulate it as long as its not directly in the enclosure.

[millertime89]

Is anyone else starting to see a pattern? Huh? Anyone? Kingsnakechris?

And yes, its been going on for a regrettably long time.

[reptile65]

You could always switch to newspaper or something for substrate.
And as for refreezing, it's not really a problem. Pythons and constrictors can eat already dead and decomposing flesh. Thawing and refrreezing doesn't hurt the food item, and though it may stink after a while, any harmful bacteria that may be present is killed by the freezing process. Facts.

I would just like to point out that freezing does not actually kill bacteria. All it does is simply slow down the growth rate. Once you thaw it back out, most of the bacteria are still alive and can begin growing again.

With that being said, you should still be okay to refreeze food items. I really wouldn't do it more than once or twice though.

[Aaron_S]

When using newspaper how do you insulate the head pad? I guess a rheostat is mandatory without substrate?

Always use a thermostat or other device when heating enclosures. Secondly, just because I don't fully understand, are you saying it's INSIDE the enclosure?

[alessia55]

When using newspaper how do you insulate the head pad? I guess a rheostat is mandatory without substrate?

A thermostat should be mandatory, regardless of what substrate you use.

[Will0W783]

A heating mat should also not be INSIDE the enclosure- under tank heating really doesn't work well for Burms. Burms are very heavy-bodied snakes, and often will not move for hours or days on end. Sitting on top of a very hot spot for days on end, even if it is not hot enough to burn, can cause impaction/constipation, as well as metablic disturbances. I would only ever use back heat or overhead heating for large constrictors.

[Kingsnakechris]

Is anyone else starting to see a pattern? Huh? Anyone? Kingsnakechris?

Starting to see a pattern? Lol it's been a well known fact that ANYTHING involving military benefits takes forever! And it sucks lol

[Will0W783]

It absolutely sucks that you can't get your benefits in a timely matter- this country is screwed up beyond belief. I feel for you, Randy.

I know that I may come across harsh and perhaps get your guard up with some of my responses to your posts; however, you have to understand that quite a lot of the things you post about doing with your snakes are unhealthy for them or downright dangerous for you and the animal. I just get the general impression that you haven't put much research into a species before you buy it. Maybe I am wrong; however, the posts here concern me for your safety and the snakes' safety. You have had rattlesnakes that you took out of the wild without knowing how to feed or handle safely, a red-tailed boa that is sick and you won't take it to the vet, and now a Burm that very well might have killed you because you feed it in an unsafe manner.
Not to be rude, but I think you need to take a step back and do some more research on reptile husbandry in general and prepare your enclosures better.

I use white butcher paper for all my giants' cages. They are simply too messy for me to use a wood substrate....my Burm and retics will soak the cages with urine when they go (about once every 2 weeks for urine, once a month for feces), and if I had been using aspen or cypress I'd be changing the entire cage out twice a month, which is expensive and messy. The butcher paper is about $20 for a several-hundred-foot roll, and I cut it to size for the cages. It takes about 3 minutes to pull the snake out, remove the paper, spray down with cleaner, wipe and rinse, put new paper in and return the snake. That way you can feed it inside the enclosure without fear of it ingesting substrate. Also, the enclosure you described is more than large enough for feeding the snake in.

[RandyRhoads]

I know that I may come across harsh and perhaps get your guard up with some of my responses to your posts; however, you have to understand that quite a lot of the things you post about doing with your snakes are unhealthy for them or downright dangerous for you and the animal. I just get the general impression that you haven't put much research into a species before you buy it. Maybe I am wrong; however, the posts here concern me for your safety and the snakes' safety. You have had rattlesnakes that you took out of the wild without knowing how to feed or handle safely, a red-tailed boa that is sick and you won't take it to the vet, and now a Burm that very well might have killed you because you feed it in an unsafe manner.
Not to be rude, but I think you need to take a step back and do some more research on reptile husbandry in general and prepare your enclosures better.

.

Now you are more than irritating me. Do I need to put it in every d*** post that I DID get species before doing the research I should have? I was an idiot, it was too late I alread owned them and tried to fix my mistakes. I've mentioned that several times. I didn't know how to handle them? In your opinion, sure. How hard is a NorPac to hook and move to you? I think maybe you may need more training if you have that much trouble. A boa I wont take to the vet? You sure make me sound like a turd, thanks. Already had a huge discussion on it and came to the conclusion there is something genetically wrong with it. I have taken it to the vet, and spent hundreds of dollars more on vet visits and medication than most would. She wasn't right from the start and needed to be put down. Sorry I don't meet your expectations your highness, I's bad and I am so sorry I made mistakes.....


Geez...........

[RandyRhoads]

Always use a thermostat or other device when heating enclosures. Secondly, just because I don't fully understand, are you saying it's INSIDE the enclosure?


No it's not inside, but without substrate it will still heat up way too hot. I will probablly just get it set up with flexwatt. I wanted to do that along time ago, but I ended up just using a heat pad and putting a good layer of substrate to get it to the right temp.

[millertime89]

grab a temp gun and set the tempt to the ideal hotspot temp, then increase as necessary because all of the heat won't get through.

[RandyRhoads]

That's what I did with the substrate, I kept adding and shooting until it was ideal.

[Gungirl]

Yes but the snake can burrow into the sub straight and get to hot....

[Hillsberry]

Now you are more than irritating me. Do I need to put it in every d*** post that I DID get species before doing the research I should have? I was an idiot, it was too late I alread owned them and tried to fix my mistakes. I've mentioned that several times. I didn't know how to handle them? In your opinion, sure. How hard is a NorPac to hook and move to you? I think maybe you may need more training if you have that much trouble. A boa I wont take to the vet? You sure make me sound like a turd, thanks. Already had a huge discussion on it and came to the conclusion there is something genetically wrong with it. I have taken it to the vet, and spent hundreds of dollars more on vet visits and medication than most would. She wasn't right from the start and needed to be put down. Sorry I don't meet your expectations your highness, I's bad and I am so sorry I made mistakes.....

Geez...........

Not to sound like a *** but Kim is one if the most experienced reptile keepers on this form. Kim is very experienced with handling hots. She is the one to talk to if it's hots. So not to sound mean but I wouldn't bash Kim so much. She only means well. Like most people on here when they see a tread that's little off the wall they get a annoyed and well you see how it ends. I know it's hard not to fight back, but sometimes you have to sit back and listen. Good luck getting your burm all set up.

[Will0W783]

Randy, I'm sorry if that's your opinion of me. I care about animals and the safety of those working with them. I have had training and experience such that I am comfortable with the animals I keep. I always, always consider everything that could go wrong, and then how to minimize the risk. I'm sorry to rehash old issues and grievances, and I know everyone makes mistakes- I made more than my fair share in my early keeping years. I think it's just hard for me to keep my coop when everyone's suggestions are met with defiance and defensiveness by you. Being criticized is one of the hardest things in life, but if you can get past it, you can learn so much! I used to butt heads with several senior members here, but now I understand that they only wanted to wake me up and help me improve my keeping abilities. I'm sorry to have offended you- but if I see a pattern of concern, it's hard for me to keep quiet when people's and animal's lives are at stake.

[Will0W783]

Thank you, Hillary, but I'm not the most experienced hot keeper in here- I'm relatively new to having them in my house, but I've been training and researching for years. There are members here who I would consider far and away my superior. But it isn't about who is best- its about learning from each other so that we are all better off- isn't that the point of a forum?

[jaleely]

Randy...i have to admit, i missed some of your posts, so i was under the impression you hadn't talked about how you had gotten pets before researching...and that now you knew and wanted to make it better. I'm actually really glad to see that. I'm sorry about the boa, too, but that whole thing was confusing as well, to me. It may be that we were all just kind of under the wrong impressions about posts you've made in the past just due to the format of being on a forum here, etc.
I think you're doing really great by asking about all of this now, and i think most of the time you do really good at taking advice, too!

That being said...uhmm...well that's it! i think it was just unclear at first.

I'm glad you can feed her in her tank now, though. You could always brace the outside, if you're too worried about it's stability. Also, i didn't get the impression that you had the heater IN the tank under the substrate, but i guess some people did.

Clearly, that's not how they work and even if you did have it that way, you get it now *lol* the snake could pee on it, ect, electrocute, not to mention burn, etc. etc.

One thing that i have used with my snakes is an actual slate ROCK on top of the glass, on top of the UTH. THat way, even if it breaks or gets too hot...it' still has a ROCK to go through. And the rock stays warm enough to make the snakes happy. You could always find a few slate peices to put on top. I have a 60 gallon tank with a 4.25 ft ball python in it, and he has a big, thin, slate rock on this UTH and i use paper towel substrate for him. (he had a tiny bit of scale rot when i got him so i wanted the fastest and easiest way to clean up after him, as soon as i saw it). IT's actually worked really great!
Hope that helps.

Edit: I realize with the big snakes weight can be an issue, but if the tank is on the ground it should be alright...you can also cushion under the rock with paper or paper towels like i do. I have mine braced with cinder blocks under it, also.

[Terranaut]

If your worried about a uth getting to hot put a thermostat on it. Doesn't have to be an expensive one. Get the cheapest home depot house one and the lockable childproof box. Mount that inside your viv. Then do the shoot and adjust technique you did with substrate but instead adjust the thermostat. This way your burm is safe. Ad you can buy 4 or 5 of these for the cost of 1 herpstat. Just my $.02