Considering a small rat breeding colony

[hellosugaree]

I'm thinking about starting a small rat breeding colony (the minimum possible size). I only have one snake currently, and I plan on getting one or two more eventually, but nothing too crazy. On this scale, I realize this will probably not be a cost-saving venture. The cost of feed, bedding, materials, and supplies will probably end up costing more than just buying whatever rats I need fresh or frozen. However, I want to do it for the experience and to know that my food source is as well cared for as my snakes. The rats would sort of be pets that feed our other pets.

I plan on feeding one of the formulated lab diets depending on price and availability, and I'm not sure what bedding I will use yet. This probably also depends on price and availability. I am open to suggestions for which kind and where to acquire for those of you that have experience.

As I understand, you need a cage for the mother to give birth in, and a separate cage to move males to prior to birthing (or if you have enough cages with females to keep the male constantly rotating). Finally, you need cages to separate pups from their mothers for weaning (one for each sex if you want to grow them up and not have them breed right away). With the smallest scale possible, I'm looking at 4 tubs or so. Did I miss anything?

I would love to hear/see words of encouragement, discouragement, pictures of your setup, info on places to get supplies or some basic DIY small racks. Who else is doing a small breeding operation?

[exwizard]

First off, I think its great that youre getting into breeding your own rats. This way you know and are 100% sure your rats are healthy and well fed. Also tamer rats make it safer to feed your snakes IF you do decide to feed live. If you go f/k or f/t then theres no doubt but I digress. Anyway, you know beyong a shadow of a doubt that your feeders will be pest free as well. The experience you gain is immeasurable should you decide to go on a bigger scale. From everything Ive read on these forums, the best thread is Korbin's http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/food-thought-forum/90140-how-my-mice-roll.html. This thread is an ongoing discussion primarily among 3 rodent breeders including myself but others have chimed in as well. Its a free exchange of ideas and thoughts about all the little details and trials that go with rat and mouse breeding. I think you will find this thread very informative if you read through every post on every page. All 3 of us have different methods and approaches to this but the goal is the same; to produce more feeders. Check it out. :)

[KORBIN5895]

First question is how big is your snake and what size feeders do you need?

[hellosugaree]

First question is how big is your snake and what size feeders do you need?

Right now he is 110g, eating appropriately-sized rats as of Saturday (finally found a local rat breeder so got him switched over). It's a coastal carpet so he will eventually presumably eat adults. I will probably have another carpet or two in the near future. The good thing with breeding is you can grow them to whatever size you want and then sac and freeze.

[hellosugaree]

First off, I think its great that youre getting into breeding your own rats. This way you know and are 100% sure your rats are healthy and well fed. Also tamer rats make it safer to feed your snakes IF you do decide to feed live. If you go f/k or f/t then theres no doubt but I digress. Anyway, you know beyong a shadow of a doubt that your feeders will be pest free as well. The experience you gain is immeasurable should you decide to go on a bigger scale. From everything Ive read on these forums, the best thread is Korbin's http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/food-thought-forum/90140-how-my-mice-roll.html. This thread is an ongoing discussion primarily among 3 rodent breeders including myself but others have chimed in as well. Its a free exchange of ideas and thoughts about all the little details and trials that go with rat and mouse breeding. I think you will find this thread very informative if you read through every post on every page. All 3 of us have different methods and approaches to this but the goal is the same; to produce more feeders. Check it out. :)

Thanks for the encouraging words and info. I have checked out the thread but have not yet read it cover to cover. As time allows I'll work my way through it for entertainment and education.

[KORBIN5895]

Well start with one male and female in a 15- 20 gallon tank. I personally don't remove my males from the females. As for grow outs I don't remove them either.

Your first litter should feed your snake a couple of months for sure. I personally would grow them out to a week old then euthanize five or six. Then grow the rest for another 10-15 days before euthanizing. That should be a out two and a half months of food which would be a great start.

[hellosugaree]

Well start with one male and female in a 15- 20 gallon tank. I personally don't remove my males from the females. As for grow outs I don't remove them either.

Your first litter should feed your snake a couple of months for sure. I personally would grow them out to a week old then euthanize five or six. Then grow the rest for another 10-15 days before euthanizing. That should be a out two and a half months of food which would be a great start.

Sounds good. I will probably use bins in a small rodent rack system. Tanks are heavy and cumbersome when cleaning. It's a lot easier with the plastic tubs because you can just have extras ready to go with fresh bedding and dump and clean the used ones instead of having to clean out a glass tank.

[KORBIN5895]

Yes tubs are a great idea for what you plan. Good luck and post up when you get going.

[exwizard]

Sounds good. I will probably use bins in a small rodent rack system. Tanks are heavy and cumbersome when cleaning. It's a lot easier with the plastic tubs because you can just have extras ready to go with fresh bedding and dump and clean the used ones instead of having to clean out a glass tank.

That is probably the most efficient way to breed rats. I would start off with 1.3. I agree with you on this point as well. We used to use glass tanks for the mice and we found that they are exactly like you describe it. Plastic tubs are very easy to clean; just dump the bedding, scrape whats left. Disinfect with rubbing alcohol, apply Kennel Fresh and put new bedding in. All this takes only a few minutes per tub.

[hellosugaree]

That is probably the most efficient way to breed rats. I would start off with 1.3. I agree with you on this point as well. We used to use glass tanks for the mice and we found that they are exactly like you describe it. Plastic tubs are very easy to clean; just dump the bedding, scrape whats left. Disinfect with rubbing alcohol, apply Kennel Fresh and put new bedding in. All this takes only a few minutes per tub.

I am in biomedical research and we have massive rodent colonies. Racks are how they do it in the big times :) I only wish I could afford one of the pro ones. They have ventilation hooked up to each cage to keep the air clean and cages isolated from one another to prevent disease spread.

[exwizard]

I am in biomedical research and we have massive rodent colonies. Racks are how they do it in the big times :) I only wish I could afford one of the pro ones. They have ventilation hooked up to each cage to keep the air clean and cages isolated from one another to prevent disease spread.

Yeah well my racks are homemade and quality built. They use concrete mixing tubs and wire mesh across the tops. Theres a spot for the water bottles and food and each rack holds 5 tubs. I wouldnt be able to afford a rack like you described either.

[hellosugaree]

Yeah well my racks are homemade and quality built. They use concrete mixing tubs and wire mesh across the tops. Theres a spot for the water bottles and food and each rack holds 5 tubs. I wouldnt be able to afford a rack like you described either.

Exactly what I'm planning on using. Where did you buy the tubs? Which size tubs are you using. Are you breeding rats?

[exwizard]

The tubs we got from Home Depot.

[mykee]

I've been breedeing rats now for ten plus years, and this is what I have found works best for me:

~1 sq. ft. of floor space per rat.
Feed a high quality lab diet: Mazuri 6F or Purina 5012.
Gravity-fed watering system (closed system, so water is always clean).
Alpha or beta chip as bedding.

Rat Rack (http://www.strictlyballs.ca/ratrack.htm)

[hellosugaree]

I've been breedeing rats now for ten plus years, and this is what I have found works best for me:

~1 sq. ft. of floor space per rat.
Feed a high quality lab diet: Mazuri 6F or Purina 5012.
Gravity-fed watering system (closed system, so water is always clean).
Alpha or beta chip as bedding.

Rat Rack (http://www.strictlyballs.ca/ratrack.htm)

Do you get your food and bedding online, or do you have a local place? I would imagine shipping is prohibitively expensive for food, due to weight. I was definitely planning on using lab block, either of the two you mentioned, depending on what I can find locally.

Thanks for the info

[mykee]

I buy my food from a feed store; $28 for a 50 lb. bag.

[Snakefood]

I use the rack system, gravity fed, fully enclosed watering system (no filling all those nasty bottles, just one big reservior!) I feed hog feed mixed with cat food, and lots of garden scraps. The males have thier own tubs, but don't spend much time in them, since they are usually "visiting" a female. I use aspen bedding.

[mykee]

"Hog feed and cat food" for your rats?

Lemme guess, you feed your dog alpaca food and tortoise chow...

[Snakefood]

yup, and they're thriving generation after generation!!

[Mose]

Members of several other feeder forums also swear by hog feed for rodents, so I gave it a try (it's way cheaper than rodent block). My rats, ASFs, and mice all hated it and would barely eat it, and their productivity went into the toilet. I switched back to rodent block, and all is again right with their world. Just my $0.02, your mileage may vary. I had a hard time finding rodent block locally for a long time. I eventually called my local farm co-op, and even though they don't stock it, they are happy to order as many bags as I want. Since they simply come in on the next truck from their supplier, they don't charge for shipping, which would otherwise cost an arm and a leg. I pay about $28 for a 50 pound bag of Mazuri 6f, and it's worth every penny.

[hellosugaree]

Members of several other feeder forums also swear by hog feed for rodents, so I gave it a try (it's way cheaper than rodent block). My rats, ASFs, and mice all hated it and would barely eat it, and their productivity went into the toilet. I switched back to rodent block, and all is again right with their world. Just my $0.02, your mileage may vary. I had a hard time finding rodent block locally for a long time. I eventually called my local farm co-op, and even though they don't stock it, they are happy to order as many bags as I want. Since they simply come in on the next truck from their supplier, they don't charge for shipping, which would otherwise cost an arm and a leg. I pay about $28 for a 50 pound bag of Mazuri 6f, and it's worth every penny.

Yeah I was definitely going to do the rodent block anyway. Hogs and breeding rodents might have slightly different nutritional requirements to say the least. I'm doing it on a small scale anyway for quality, not to get the most rodents for the least investment. Just as I look for the best food for myself, I do the same for my pets, even if it costs twice as much as the cheapest stuff out there. And yes, I would consider feeders pets until they go in the freezer. No reason they shouldn't eat right and be healthy too. Besides that, I would imagine healthier feeders make healthier food. Thanks for your input though. I am looking to see if I can get Mazuri 6f locally, since I've heard it recommended by a lot of people. Have you tried any other brands of rodent block?

How big is your rodent colony? What do you use for bedding?

Thanks for your response.

[Snakefood]

I have had no problems with my mixture at all, my females are huge producers (usually 13-16 in a litter, except for first time moms of course)

Mykee- you wouldn't believe what I pay for my dogs' food, so hold your toung already!!!

[Mose]

Mykee - If it works for you, go for it. There is no single "correct" way to raise rodents, I'm just saying it didn't work for me. Results using hog block are mixed, some love it, some hate it. I wish mine did well on it, because it would save me a ton of money.

Hellosugaree - I started out with 1.3 and considered them pets too. Unfortunately, they pretty much are too old to breed at about a year of age. Then you are left with a bunch of pets that eat you out of house and home, but don't produce anything for your snakes. My solution was to have 2 or 3 females that are purely pets and will never be fed off. The rest are livestock, as harsh as that might sound. Getting attached to all of them is...impractical.

I usually have 3-4 tubs with anywhere from 2-4 females per tub, depending on my needs. I put a male into tub 1 for 3 weeks, or at least until all of the females are pregnant. Then I move him to tub 2, and repeat the process. This way, the females from tub 1 have several weeks to give birth, wean their babies, and recover before becoming pregnant again. With my mice, I just leave the males in with the females, because they don't handle new members of their little "groups" as well as rats.

Oh, and I use a combination of beddings, depending on what I have available. Mostly I use shredded aspen, but I sometimes use shredded newspaper too. I tried Purina rodent block, and it was okay, but not great. I found a source for Mazuri at the same price, and never went back. It's great. Our local university has a breeding colony of rodents for research projects, and they use Mazuri too, it's good stuff.

[exwizard]

I pay $12.65 for 50 lbs of rat chow from Kent and it works great.