lumpy face.

[KORBIN5895]

So I have a female rat that seems to be having eye problems. When I first got her I noticed a little red discoloration around her eyes ( she is a creamy tan and light beige) . It hasn't cleared up nor has it gotten worse. Well today I noticed a good size lump under her right eye and a slight lump under her left. Her eyes also seem to be bugging out a bit. Any ideas why?

[Snakefood]

cancer or abcess

either way, cull her

[lady_bug87]

Could it be a bacterial infection?

[Snakefood]

that would be the abcess, with the lumps being under each eye that means the bacteria(puss) has crossed through the nasal cavity and is in the sinuses. So unless he wants to spend over $100 bucks on a "feeder breeder" this is a cull situation.

if it's cancer, because of the location of the lumps, it has breached bone and probably the brain, therefore she doesn't have long to live and it would be a painful death, so again, this is a cull situation.

[lady_bug87]

Ah you're right umm can she pass that on to her young?

[Snakefood]

cancer, yes.......abcess, no. They are caused by small wounds that close over and become infected.

Once culled, if OP slits one of the lumps open he'll be able to tell. if it's puss inside, it was an abcess, if it's solid matter, then it was cancer

[BarelyBreathing]

Can you post a picture?

This Crush before getting an abcessed tooth removed. Sorry it's horrible quality. They were taken on my phone.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0570_1314502473332.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0567_1314502419848.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0563_1314502325616.jpg

[Snakefood]

hope that got better, but we're talking about a breeder rat.

[BarelyBreathing]

Yes, I realize that, but an abcess is still an abcess no matter what species it's in.

[mykee]

When it doubt, cull.

[Snakefood]

Yes, I realize that, but an abcess is still an abcess no matter what species it's in.

True, what I meant by that, is you would treat your snake, but most people would just cull the "feeder breeder" and move on.

[BarelyBreathing]

I didn't say treat it. I just thought it would be helpful a: for the OP to post pictures to figure out what it is in case anybody came across a problem similar in the future and b: to post pictures showing the effects of an abcess in the mouth on the rest of the face. There was no hidden agenda behind my post. Lol.

[Snakefood]

hehe

I didn't think so BB!!;)

[BarelyBreathing]

I think this is a great thread because a lot of people keep pet rats. Even if you cull the animal, another keeper can see this thread and instantly know wha's wrong.

[Snakefood]

very true!!

[exwizard]

Yeah anytime any of our rats develop anyhing like this they become next on list of snake food. Weve had experience with both plus benign tumors.

[jarich]

There are some interesting studies on the higher occurrence of cancerous growths in rats due to high fat and high protein diets. If you find its a consistent problem, might be worth it to play around with this.

[KORBIN5895]

Well I went in yo take care of them to day and she had gore all over her cheek and the lump is gone. I just washed it with warm water.

I also found a female mouse with a huge lump on her side that ended up being pus filled. Any ideas what's up with these abscess randomly appearing so close together?

[Snakefood]

either there is something they can puncture themselves on in thier environment or they are fighting. Abcesses are most commonly caused by small puncture wounds that heal over before cleaning themselves out.

Abcesses are always caused by some form of wound (or abcessed teeth), they are never hereditary or contagious.

[KORBIN5895]

It looked like it came from her tear duct. They don't seem to be fighting and she is one of my oldest females. As far as puncturing there is no wound or open tear. Could it just be a nasty eye infection?

[Snakefood]

it would be very unlikely that it was an eye infection gone wrong, the puss from eye infections has an automatic escape route out the corner of the eye, I have never heard of an eye infection abcessing.

That's the way an abcess works, if it were an open wound or a tear it would clean itself out by bleeding, then protect itself by scabbing. Abcesses happen when there is a small enough puncture wound that does not bleed and does not call attention to itself in anyway until the "lump" develops

Tear duct bacteria tends to warn you first with a dark discharge

[KORBIN5895]

So I have a female rat that seems to be having eye problems. When I first got her I noticed a little red discoloration around her eyes ( she is a creamy tan and light beige) . It hasn't cleared up nor has it gotten worse. Well today I noticed a good size lump under her right eye and a slight lump under her left. Her eyes also seem to be bugging out a bit. Any ideas why?

it would be very unlikely that it was an eye infection gone wrong, the puss from eye infections has an automatic escape route out the corner of the eye, I have never heard of an eye infection abcessing.

That's the way an abcess works, if it were an open wound or a tear it would clean itself out by bleeding, then protect itself by scabbing. Abcesses happen when there is a small enough puncture wound that does not bleed and does not call attention to itself in anyway until the "lump" develops

Tear duct bacteria tends to warn you first with a dark discharge

Could this be the same?

[exwizard]

There are some interesting studies on the higher occurrence of cancerous growths in rats due to high fat and high protein diets. If you find its a consistent problem, might be worth it to play around with this.

This is interesting because this occurence in our rats has gone way down since we reduced the protein levels in our rat chow from 23% to 19%.

[exwizard]

Could this be the same?

Im thinking it could be.

[Snakefood]

Could this be the same?

It could be, usually tear duct discharge is a brownish color, but I've seen it tend towards a sick looking pink too

[KORBIN5895]

I will take a pic today.

[Snakefood]

that would help oodles:D

[KORBIN5895]

Well it looks really bad today and I just segregated her. The lump is back and her right eye is almost swollen shut. I am suspecting fighting occurred last night.
http://s17.postimage.org/rbd8qry6j/IMG_20120415_134333.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/rbd8qry6j/)
http://s9.postimage.org/ikw6bis7v/IMG_20120415_134412.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ikw6bis7v/)

[exwizard]

yeah that looks like a war wound for sure. Infection can easily happen from that and thats what I think happened here.

[Snakefood]

ya, there was some kind of fight, and if it's puffing up again, I really must re-state culling her unless you're willing to go through with treating her, which can take up to 6 weeks. If your not going to treat her for the obvious infection she has, cull her now so she doesn't die painfully of septsis

[KORBIN5895]

So I ended up segregating this female because she was pregnant. As of yesterday she has given birth to 9 pinkies ( which she thought were so cute she just had to eat them up because all of them are gone) and her face has cleared up. She still has a scab in the corner of her eye. I will keep her segregated until the guy buying my colony picks them up and then he can do what he sees fit.