Next breeding project?

[Kingsnakechris]

I've been going crazy looking at all the different possibilities.... I definently want to stick with colubrids for a while until I move on to BP's... What would you other colubrid lovers suggest? Btw this forum is one of the friendliest communities I have ever had the privilege of being a part of!

[exwizard]

This is my ongoing project in the works.

[theapexgerman]

Go with milks I can't wait till the 1.1 extreme hypo/ultra-light hypos I'm getting in september be a few years before there breeding age but there going to look killer

[Kingsnakechris]

This is my ongoing project in the works.

Forgive my ignorance but what are those? They kinda look like corns to me..

[theapexgerman]

Yea it is an corn

[Gungirl]

Breed what you love not what we suggest...

[exwizard]

Yeah those are Corns. :) The Amel is the female and the Bloodred Motley is the male

[CDN_Blood]

Just out of curiosity, what compels you to want to breed snakes anyhow?

[Kingsnakechris]

Well first off I LOVE snakes. Secondly it's a great an interesting hobby. Thirdly I'm a firm believer that the more options people have in regards to purchasing a captive bred snake it will decrease the number of people collecting countless wild caught snakes. I'm not saying everyone who wants to go catch from the wild won't, but if even one person gets a CBB snake that's one less person stressing the wild snake populations, I plan on selling them at affordable prices so it takes the argument that "it's to expensive" out of the equation. That and I really want to experiment around with morphs. It's been my dream to come up with different morphs ever since I got into reptiles.

[Kingsnakechris]

Breed what you love not what we suggest...

I love colubrids lol all of them really. Just cant decide which ones I want to add to my breeding collections...

[youngster]

Garter snakes.

[Kingsnakechris]

Do you have experience breeding garter snakes??

[CDN_Blood]

Well first off I LOVE snakes. Secondly it's a great an interesting hobby. Thirdly I'm a firm believer that the more options people have in regards to purchasing a captive bred snake it will decrease the number of people collecting countless wild caught snakes. I'm not saying everyone who wants to go catch from the wild won't, but if even one person gets a CBB snake that's one less person stressing the wild snake populations, I plan on selling them at affordable prices so it takes the argument that "it's to expensive" out of the equation. That and I really want to experiment around with morphs. It's been my dream to come up with different morphs ever since I got into reptiles.

Thanks for the reply. I was just curious :D

[youngster]

Do you have experience breeding garter snakes??

Nope.

Wayne does though.

[Kingsnakechris]

Thanks for the reply. I was just curious :D

No problem. Lol I figured as long as I'm not just doing it for the money like a lot of people do (and fail miserably) I shouldn't be worried about answering lol!
Those who go out and think there going to get a pair of snakes and breed them just for the money usually don't read or even try to learn about what their getting into and end up giving up and the snakes are the ones that pay for it...

[hellosugaree]

Btw this forum is one of the friendliest communities I have ever had the privilege of being a part of!

It never ceases to amaze me how awesome this place is. I've been here less than a month and I can already recognize some people's posts without seeing their username. It has a very informal and friendly feel.

[theapexgerman]

No problem. Lol I figured as long as I'm not just doing it for the money like a lot of people do (and fail miserably) I shouldn't be worried about answering lol!
Those who go out and think there going to get a pair of snakes and breed them just for the money usually don't read or even try to learn about what their getting into and end up giving up and the snakes are the ones that pay for it...
I agree I'm doing so much research bout breeding for next year season

[Snakefood]

No problem. Lol I figured as long as I'm not just doing it for the money like a lot of people do (and fail miserably) I shouldn't be worried about answering lol!
Those who go out and think there going to get a pair of snakes and breed them just for the money usually don't read or even try to learn about what their getting into and end up giving up and the snakes are the ones that pay for it...


Amen to that!!

I had 2 corn snakes dropped off at my house for just that reason!! Some lady had a male and went and got a female to breed to her male. when the female slugged out, she dropped both of them off together, in the same tank, at one of my customers house. He doesn't do colubrids, so brought them to me.

There was no way the female was big/old enough to be bred, at least she survived it and is doing well now.

As for my vote on which colubrid you should breed, I vote kings or corns!!

[Kingsnakechris]

Yeah, it's crazy how many people just assume it's as simple as getting a male and female together and wala you have eggs. Those are the people I'm glad don't succeed as finding homes for the babies is just as tough as breeding itself... Ok I'm deciding between milks and corns, I already have a king pair, just waiting for my female to get a little bigger..

[Snakefood]

what kind of kings do you have??

And remember one male can "service" more than one female, so you can get another king female. ;)

[Kingsnakechris]

I have California kings. Both male and female are 50% het. Albino. I'm just waiting till next season to breed them because my female is a bit to small right now. I'd rather wait till it's safer for her..she's a black and white banded and my male (who is HUGE) is a yellow and black banded.. I was thinking about getting another female but I want to expand my breeder collection, leaning twords milks but may very well go with corns. Are corn morphs really expensive?

[theapexgerman]

Some are go here Corn Snake Morphs - The Definitive Guide - Ians Vivarium (http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/?) They got every pic of every morph and a corn calc and most morphs are that expensive but some arnt

[Kingsnakechris]

Nice thanks man.

[Snakefood]

depends which one you want!! corns range from $40-$4,000!!

Do you know what morphs (corn wise) you would be interested in creating??

I love this website to veiw Corn morphs
Corn Snake Morphs - The Definitive Guide - Ians Vivarium (http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/)

and then I use the corn calculator to see how to make them, and just to play around to see what morphs I need to find for my projects.
The Corn Calculator - Corn snake genetics prediction (http://www.corncalc.com/)

[theapexgerman]

I beat ya to it snakefood lol

[Snakefood]

thththththth!!!! ;)

but you forgot the corn calculator!! LOL:D

[Kingsnakechris]

LOL thanks now I'll be stuck on the corn calculator all day! I have no idea which morph I want yet, gonna look at em and see...

[theapexgerman]

thththththth!!!! ;)

but you forgot the corn calculator!! LOL:D

Yea I knew I forgot something I had the link save on my phone lol

[theapexgerman]

And chris I have an opal and a snow corn when you come over you can see them the opal looks so good

[Kingsnakechris]

Nice! Looking forward to it!

[theapexgerman]

There pretty young but really good eaters my opal is an eating champ

[Snakefood]

LOL thanks now I'll be stuck on the corn calculator all day! I have no idea which morph I want yet, gonna look at em and see...

I spend HOURS on the corn calculator!! My original project was to create Coral Snows, after many days playing with the corn calc, I found that by adding stripe to my snow, and lavendar to my hypo, I would get "powerhouse" normals, who would have the ability to produce 31 different morphs from TWO snakes! Including my much loved coral snows!

[Kingsnakechris]

That's incredible!!!! I wonder if all colubrids have such potential....

[Snakefood]

From what I am seeing most colubrids I know of (ie: corns, kings, rats) have many different morphs, so I would guess that yes, you could do the same thing with other colubrids.

it's a matter of how many seperate "genes" are in each snake, for instance:

A snow is a combination of the genes Amel and Anery
A snow stripe is Amel, Anery and stripe

Now breed that to a Hypo Lavendar and you get normal babies het for Amel, Anery, Stripe, Hypo and Lavendar.

Grow those babies to breeding age and out of them you have the possibility of having 31 different morphs come from those babies. Now it's not going to happen all in one clutch, but the genes are there to create all those morphs (not listing them, it would be too onerous!!)

[theapexgerman]

I want an snowopal lol

[Kingsnakechris]

So my cal. Kings both being 50% het albino, does that mean I might end up with different albinos because they are different patterns as it is ( normal black n white and black and yellow)

[Kingsnakechris]

Hey German do you know when the next expo is for us?

[theapexgerman]

Yea there's on in aug and october one in mesa and the other is hell of a long ways in tuscon

[Snakefood]

I want an snowopal lol


My powerhouse babies WILL come out with snowpals and hypo snowpals and snowpal stripes and hypo snowpal stripes!!

[theapexgerman]

I want an hyposnowpal lol ill be one of your first customers

[Snakefood]

So my cal. Kings both being 50% het albino, does that mean I might end up with different albinos because they are different patterns as it is ( normal black n white and black and yellow)

Hmmm, I don't know. 50% means they may not be het for it at all and you'll get banded kings, if you do get albino's, maybe some will be brighter than others??

I don't know kings. Is the yellow banded a different gene than the white banded, or is banded the gene and they vary from wht to yellow??

[Kingsnakechris]

Me to! Lol do you have a link or something showing the dates of the Mesa expo? I'm def. Going to that one...

[Snakefood]

I want an hyposnowpal lol ill be one of your first customers

I'll hold ya to that so long as you remember that darned border between us!! I'll even give ya a deal!!

[theapexgerman]

Banded is the gene the colors are just an variable I belive

[theapexgerman]

Me to! Lol do you have a link or something showing the dates of the Mesa expo? I'm def. Going to that one...
That the one I'm going to its not a big one like the one in tuscon going to be tho and I got the info from my buddys at the reptile store I go to

[Snakefood]

ok, so like pastel B/P's.

Therefore, if your pair IS het albino (and they both have to have the het to produce visible albino's) then you would get banded and albino babies who could range from whites to yellows.

[Kingsnakechris]

Nice, thank you for clearing that up for me. I met the guy I bought these two from and he showed me the parents both were albino. These guys came out normal but I was told they had the het.

[Kingsnakechris]

Or something like that. Im really new to breeding...

[Kingsnakechris]

Ok. I'll have to ask him when I go. I'm not missing this one because Tuscon is wayyyy to far lol

[theapexgerman]

Wait if both parents were albino then all the babies would be albino

[theapexgerman]

I'll hold ya to that so long as you remember that darned border between us!! I'll even give ya a deal!!
The shipping is the killer part lol

[Kingsnakechris]

I'm sorry, both parents were HET albino and he had albino babies as well I just picked up the normal Hets

[Kingsnakechris]

Lol maybe a drive to Canada is in order hahah

[Kingsnakechris]

Otherwise I got screwed... I hope they have the HET.. Now I'm nervous lol

[theapexgerman]

Ok then that's different if both of the parents were het than babies would be would also be het and have some albinos

[Snakefood]

Nice, thank you for clearing that up for me. I met the guy I bought these two from and he showed me the parents both were albino. These guys came out normal but I was told they had the het.

if that's the case, then kings genes are acting differently than corns. In corns if you bred 2 of the same morph together, the entire clutch would be that same morph, not one normal with hets would be in that clutch.

Now if one parent was albino and one was normal with an albino het, you would get normals 100% het albino as well as visible albino's. Again, if king genes work differently than corns NONE of what I'm saying would be valid

[theapexgerman]

No kings gene work same as corn and milk he meant to say both parents were het

[Snakefood]

I'm sorry, both parents were HET albino and he had albino babies as well I just picked up the normal Hets

Alright that makes sense!!

So your 2 would be normals 66% chance of albino het, not 100%, and again BOTH would have to have the het for you to produce albino's

[Snakefood]

No kings gene work same as corn and milk he meant to say both parents were het

Ya I was posting @ the same time as he was!!

[theapexgerman]

Breeding is so damm confusing lol

[Snakefood]

The shipping is the killer part lol

I know!! Too bad you weren't in Washington, I'm a 20 min drive from the border, but YOU'RE NOT!!!!

[theapexgerman]

Maybe I can talk my girlfriend into taking an trip to canada

[Snakefood]

BC is beautiful!! Hit the Northwest of Vancouver Island for whale watching, crab boils on the beach and some of the most beautiful rainforests you'll ever see!!

Stop by my house on the way out to pick out your snake.

You have 4 years to plan it!! that's when my powerhouse snakes will have thier first mating season!!

[theapexgerman]

4 years sound pretty good lol

[Snakefood]

well if ya can't plan a trip with 4 years notice, then.................:wacky:

[theapexgerman]

Yea lol I'm sure me and Jessica can work something out

[Kingsnakechris]

Lol I'm sure I can get my wife to agree to a road trip. My son will be 5 by then so it shouldnt be a problem haha

[theapexgerman]

Lol taking an 5 year old on roadtrip that should be fun

[Kingsnakechris]

Lol it's worth it. BC is absolutely beautiful!

[theapexgerman]

Neven been to BC I've been to a lot of places tho all over the susk

[Snakefood]

BC is beautiful, no matter where I go, I always come home to the best place in the world!

5 yr old on a road trip. get a portable DVD player. I did western BC to Southeast Alberta with 3 yr old, and that's the only thing that saved my sanity!!

[Kingsnakechris]

Lol i have those in my truck..

[theapexgerman]

Lol yea if you got an dvd player little kids won't bother you

[Kingsnakechris]

Yeah lol I'm gonna rock shrek the first one for him haha hes one and he already loves shrek

[theapexgerman]

I've been looking up the expos and I can't find nothing in arizona lol

[Snakefood]

ours is coming up at the end of this month, I am renting a table there. I will be selling some of my corns and hopefully purchasing 2 more. I am pretty sure I can find the snow I am looking for, the only prob will be can I get an adult or do I have t wait for a hatchling to mature. I am hoping I can find my hypo-lav, but if not, I know of a mature one that will be avail this coming fall/winter. Best case scenario would be to find a Hypo-Lavendar stripe male adult. Then I can start right away as it will still be breeding season.

[Kingsnakechris]

Good luck! How much does it cost to rent a table there? I'm thinking by next year I'll have at least 3 different breeder projects would be nice to actually sell at an expo instead of blow allll my money as soon as I walk in haha

[Snakefood]

table prices range, there are deadlines for lower price tables and member discounts on tables.

I am a non-member, who missed the deadline, so I am paying $45 for my table. IF I were to sell everything I plan on bringing, I will make about $1500

[Kingsnakechris]

Nice! I have a question for ya... I found a really good deal on some albino cal. King babies. They are about 1' long was wondering if I picked up a female would she be ready to breed by next season? Assuming she eats enough and puts on weight fast enough?

[Kingsnakechris]

I'm hoping to have accomplished enough to have a table of my own at the reptile expos!

:-)

[Snakefood]

Nice! I have a question for ya... I found a really good deal on some albino cal. King babies. They are about 1' long was wondering if I picked up a female would she be ready to breed by next season? Assuming she eats enough and puts on weight fast enough?

First off, note that I have no experience with kings, however they are colubrids so probably follow the same lines as corns. The rule for breeding corns is that the female must be at least 2 out of the 3 things listed below

1) 3 years old
2) 300 grams
3) 3' long

Males can usually be sucessfully bred at 2 yrs, 2', ect

[Kingsnakechris]

Ok, thanks for that. I read somewhere that breeding kings and corns followed almost the same principals..

[Snakefood]

probably, they're both colubrids after all!

I'd like to get into kings eventually, but only if I can get morphs like what shayne has

[Kingsnakechris]

I'm planning on getting a few albinos soon and once I picked out my fav and sell off the rest I'll pick up a morph to breed with my het. I have a decent plan and my female being 50% het for albino is my ace in the hole lol!

[Snakefood]

check out this guys kings, and as far as I know he's breeding them, so you may want to check out his stock too. He has kings that I have never seen before, and man, do I want a few of them!!

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/lampropeltis/91399-few-kings.html

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/lampropeltis/91401-few-more-kings.html

[Kingsnakechris]

I REALLY like the all white kings. Also the last pic on the first link the lighter one ( forgott what it's name was). Was incredible! I want some now. Lol I just have to produce enough to sell enough to get into the more uncommon morphs.

[Snakefood]

I'd PM shane, see what his prices are. That would be my FIRST stop, were I state-side!!

[Kingsnakechris]

I'll PM him when I get a little more cash flow lol i dont wanna waste his time, but Right now money is so tight, I hurt my back in the army and I haven't been able to go back to my old job since. Been broke for a while but my backs getting fixed on the 16th of this month so I'll be able to go back to work and really get my collection up and running!

[kernel]

I guess I'm not needed :( Snakefood answered all you questions :(

LOL, I'm just kidding. All I can add is kingsnake genetics are just like corn snake genetics. Kings have all the same breeding rules as corns, you just have to watch the kings and make sure they don't eat each other,

[Kingsnakechris]

I guess I'm not needed :( Snakefood answered all you questions :(

LOL, I'm just kidding. All I can add is kingsnake genetics are just like corn snake genetics. Kings have all the same breeding rules as corns, you just have to watch the kings and make sure they don't eat each other,

Yeah that was one of main concerns but everything I've read said that mating usually happens right after introduction andbif it doesn't leave them together for an hour or so but DO NOT leave them unsupervised... Does that sound about right?

[Snakefood]

certainly sounds right if there's a danger of cannabalism. I guess that's the glaring difference between corns and kings!!

[Kingsnakechris]

I guess I'm not needed :( Snakefood answered all you questions :(

LOL, I'm just kidding. All I can add is kingsnake genetics are just like corn snake genetics. Kings have all the same breeding rules as corns, you just have to watch the kings and make sure they don't eat each other,

any one willing to offer advice or answer my questions is infact needed LOL!

[Kingsnakechris]

certainly sounds right if there's a danger of cannabalism. I guess that's the glaring difference between corns and kings!!

I thought corns were cannibalistic as well? I know nothing about corns tho lol.
I used to have a fairly large collection of 14 or 15 snakes but they were BP's and boa's. This is my first run with colubrids. I like my cal. Kings a lot (particularly my female) she doesn't bite anymore my male tho, well let's just say he doesnt like me to much lol the only real difference I've seen tho is they take some work to get them to tolerate handling. I miss my BP's tho I had to re home them when I enlisted in the army.. But I decided I wanted to try somthin different this time and figured id give breeding colubrids a shot.
Thanks again for all of the helpful advice. I really appreciate it.

[Snakefood]

I think corns are calmer than kings. They may be canabalistic of much smaller snakes than themselves, but you can to put male and female together and walk away, for days at a time.

[KORBIN5895]

I'm planning on getting a few albinos soon and once I picked out my fav and sell off the rest I'll pick up a morph to breed with my het. I have a decent plan and my female being 50% het for albino is my ace in the hole lol!

Dude a 50% het is more like an ace to five straight you could win but there are much better hands. I recommend getting 100% het as a minimum. If you have something with multiple hets make sure at least on het is 100%.

[Kingsnakechris]

Hmmm, well looks like I'm going shopping soon...

[Kingsnakechris]

Dude a 50% het is more like an ace to five straight you could win but there are much better hands. I recommend getting 100% het as a minimum. If you have something with multiple hets make sure at least on het is 100%.

But it IS possible to produce albinos right? What if I were to breed her to an albino male? With her being 50% het. And the male being an albino himself would that better my chances?

[Snakefood]

here's how it works:

breed a male albino to a normal 50% het albino. (the normal only has a 50% chance of carrying the het)

If you get albino's out of the clutch, you've proven her het (now she is 100% het albino) if you don't get albino's then she does not carry the albino gene, but her normal babies will be 100% het albino

So yes, it gives you a better chance only in the aspect that if she were bred to another 50% het albino, getting only normals would mean that one or both do not carry the gene but the prob is, you don't know if it one or both who lack the het.

Breeding the 50% to a visible albino gives you a much better chance of proving or disproving the het and worst case scenario, you'll get normals who are 100% het for albino

Does this make any sense to you??

does that explain it better??

[Kingsnakechris]

Yes it does. Thank you very much for clearing that up. So when I breed her to a visible albino male even if I get normals I can still breed her babies and produce albinos? Sorry for the annoying questions im just trying tobget some help with my "homework"
Thanks a bunch!

[Snakefood]

Line breeding is better than inbreeding, so worst case she is not het, but now her babies are because you bred her to a male albino, it is better to breed a female baby back to the father than to breed brother to sister

[Snakefood]

And none of this is annoying, It's incredibly interesting and I love it, so ask away!

[Kingsnakechris]

Ok so female baby breed back to the father is better then brother sister. I wasn't planning on that tho, I was just gonna keep a male and female and sell the rest to buy another male and female to breed them with...

[Snakefood]

keep the male albino and a female baby, sell the rest, pick up what you can with that profit, and remember that albino gene can combine to make so many others, it's an important first gene to have so I would keep the visible male.

[Kingsnakechris]

Awesome. Thanks! I've been somewhat lost with all the morphs and instructions and combos lol but I'm pretty sure I'm gettin the hang of it LOL!

[Snakefood]

ya it takes a while to sink in, but now I can figure most combo's in my head. You'll get it too!!

[KORBIN5895]

Personally I would get a female albino. That way you don't have to wait as long to breed the offspring to the parent.

[Kingsnakechris]

Yeah I was thinking about just getting another pair, an albino male for my female het. And an albino female for my normal yellow white banded...

[Snakefood]

That is an excellent idea!!!

[Kingsnakechris]

So thanks to "Theapexgerman" for showing me a local breeder out here I've decided I'm going to be getting 2 snow morph corn snakes for my next breeder pair. I'm still debating however weather I want a snow with het motley or just two snows W/O the hets. Either way Snow morph corn snake hatchlings will be on my 2013 "AVAILABLE" list :laugh:

[KORBIN5895]

Is motley a dominant gene or recessive?

[Kingsnakechris]

I believe it is recessive.

[Snakefood]

yup, it's recessive.

whether you want the hets or not depends on if you'd like to produce motley snows in the future.

[theapexgerman]

Hey snake food what would my opal and snow corn if they breed together what would the babies be?

[Snakefood]

100% amels, het for anery and lavendar

[theapexgerman]

What percent of het would they be 50 right

[Snakefood]

nope 100% on all the hets!!

[theapexgerman]

Nice I forgot to get them sex today lol

[Snakefood]

well you do need one of each to accomplish anything!!

[theapexgerman]

Lol yea for sure

[millertime89]

Is motley a dominant gene or recessive?

Its dom in retics, I can't wait for the price to drop on that gene.

[KORBIN5895]

Its dom in retics, I can't wait for the price to drop on that gene.

It's dominant in boas too.

[Kingsnakechris]

yup, it's recessive.

whether you want the hets or not depends on if you'd like to produce motley snows in the future.


Now to produce motley snows I'd need my snow het motley and motley right? The corn calculator is throwing me offva bit lol I'm new to this stuff forgive me...:sad:

[Snakefood]

if you breed snow (het motley) x snow (het motley) you would get 75% snows and 25% motley snow.

if you breed motley snow x snow (het motley) you would get 50% of snows and 50% of motley snows.

[Kingsnakechris]

Ok, sounds good. The two I'm getting is a snow het motley and het caramel and still debating between a butter het motley or an amelanistic het lavender het stripe. Or I might just get the snow W/o hets....

[Kingsnakechris]

If I bred the snow het motley x snow without hets I'd still at least get snows right? I think I'm getting this lol

[millertime89]

It's dominant in boas too.

interesting... I wonder if it was a gene that their common ancestor shared and they maintained when they evolved down separate paths from each other.

[Snakefood]

If I bred the snow het motley x snow without hets I'd still at least get snows right? I think I'm getting this lol

yes, you would get 100% snows, (66% PH motley)