Disease?

[Carlie]

Okay, I need some help with my babies. I received 3 new snakes at the end of January. Shortly after receiving them 2 our of the 3 began regurging. I have got one back on track, the other is lined up for a necropsy. Since then 3 from my personal collection have begun regurging, as well as 2 who started refusing food (one of them being the 3rd snake I acquired). All of the ones who have begun regurging have been moved to smaller bins, and moved from the ones not regurging. Tho at the same time I just made a new mouse order around the same time as the reguges/refusals started (all but one, but she was shedding around the time of the regurge). Is this all just a big coincidence, the mice or a disease?

[youngster]

QUARANTINE!!!!

Get them far apart from each other, it's not a coincidence.

[BarelyBreathing]

Get a fecal done. And I'm sorry for your loss.

[Rogue628]

Not sure what could be causing it but I'd definitely quarantine them all away from one another and get some tests done. It's no coincidence.

Sorry for the loss of the one(s?) you lost. :(

[Snakefood]

Sorry:(

I agree, get each and every one of them as far apart from each other as you can and get at least one to a vet with a written record of all the problems in your collection since this began

[shaunyboy]

sorry for your loss

did you quarantine the 3 new snakes ?

as said,get a fecal test done

cheers shaun

[a153fish]

Yeah, it's all guess work untill you see the Vet. It is important to note for anyone who has a snake regurge, that the snake should not be fed again for at least 10 days. This is to give the snake time to rebuild all of it's important acids, and flora, before you even try to feed them again. Just a note for anyone who may read this. Again temps can play a major role. Did you have any night time drop in temps, that might have contributed to the rash of regurges? I have had that happen to me before, when I was caught off guard, and fed the day before a cold front hit. Good luck with the remainder, and keep us posted on what you learn.

[kernel]

1 or 2 regurgitations now then is normal, but for every snake in your collection to be regurgitating or refusing food means something is seriously wrong. Quarantine each snake away from each other and get the soonest vet appointment possible. Make sure they are reputable reptile vet as well.

[Carlie]

The 3 new snakes were slightly quarantined. I trusted the women who I bought from, I purchased ones from her before which were fine, but obviously I shouldn't have let my guard down ! They were on a separate shelf in my rack system, they were always handles and fed last.
Temps have been fine, my apartment hasn't been below 80, and I have had them in the same rack for a long time, my thermostat never posed an issue, and my thermometers have 'recall', they never dipped below 81, and never went above 84.
I followed regurge protocol to a t. No food for 10 days, then a smaller than normal meal, slit and sprinkled with nutribac. Also after one regurges their aspen is removed and are put on paper towels for closer monitoring. They have been carefully examined, nothing out of the ordinary with them.
I have detailed feeding/refusal/regurge chats on my iHerp, and have monitored them closely, I have been doing everything right. I currently have 17 snakes, 5 are regurging, 3 are refusing, I have NEVER had issues before.

[geckodog]

So sorry, put then in separate areas, because they need room, probably why they are regurtaiting

[Lankyrob]

keeping them in the same rack system is NOT quarantining, they need to be in a separate room as far as possible from your current snakes - there probably is no point separating them now as any illness/disease they have brought with them it sound like has spread to your collection already.

[Dakota314]

I wouldn't say there is no point in separating now. I would still separate the sick ones from the healthy ones to prevent any more possible infections. Move them to a different room. The others may still get sick, but if you separate them now there is a chance that they won't. Wash your hands thoroughly between handling each snake.

How are you measuring/controling temps?

How old are the snakes that are refusing food? They may be refusing because it is breeding season.

[Carlie]

I am bringing the sickest one to the vet this Thursday for testing. I hope I get something back.

I am measuring temps with an exxo terra probe thermometer in a bin above the heat pad, one on every length of heat tape. It is being controlled by a newtek themostat.

The snakes refusing food are yearlings, a mix of males and females.

Is there anything I can do to prepare for the testingÉ

[millertime89]

I'm really sorry for your loss. Like others have said, get everyone in QT immediately, hopefully you'll be able to save some of your collection. I would also notify the woman you bought these 3 from and see if she's willing to help. At the very least she needs to be aware that 3 snakes from her collection were sick with something fatal. I would also cancel all in-progress purchases or sales and if you breed notify any customers.

[zwhitman]

1st of all a little more info would be good. Are all of the snakes corns? Do any of the snakes have a midbody lump or any other symptoms?

If it were me, I would do the following...

1) Chuck every rodent in the freezer, bleach it, and order more from somewhere else.

2) Find a GOOD herp vet where you can bring the sick snake for exam, the dead snake for necropsy WITH histopathology of at least the GI tract and preferably all major organs, and fecal exams for all snakes.

3) Ask the breeder you got them from if she has seen anything like this in her collection. She may be one step ahead of you (if she will tell you).

4) Put the entire collection on lockdown. It does not have to be too late for your other snakes. All regurging or non-feeding snakes should be moved to a separate room. The rest of the collection/racks should be entirely emptied and cleaned with bleach. I would keep everyone on paper and use disposable hides and water bowls until you get this figured out. Get a box of latex gloves and designate a pair of gloves for every individual tub/cage. Deal with the sick snakes last and do not go back into the main snake room until you have showered and changed.

5) Identify "critical control points" such as the door knob to the snake room, the sink faucet handle, the temp gun, your shoes, etc and do everything you can to minimize cross contamination at these points.

6) Get an accurate gram scale and start weighing all snakes regularly. This will help you judge overall health as well as dehydration. I would also learn the "pinch test". Most snake species get much of their liquids from their food and regurging snakes can dehydrate quickly and may need to be soaked regularly. Keep in mind that this is stressful and should be kept short, luke warm, shallow, and closely supervised.

Your temps are marginal. Sick snakes need a wide temp gradient and a good basking spot to be able to boost their immune system. 84 probably isn't going to cut it.

In the future if you don't want this to happen again (and it will if you give it long enough) separate all incoming snakes in a separate room for at least 30 days and preferably longer(60-90). Run fecals ASAP. Sorry that you have to learn about this the hard way. Unfortunately this is the way most people start to quarantine. After they loose animals. Hopefully people will read this and take warning. Please keep us updated.

[Carlie]

1) Chuck every rodent in the freezer, bleach it, and order more from somewhere else.

- As much as I want to do this I cannot afford a new mouse order and the vet bills right now as I just had my son and things are tight as it is. I always buy my mice from the same breeder, they always come in frozen, and I contacted him asking if he had heard anything back about his last shipments.

2) Find a GOOD herp vet where you can bring the sick snake for exam, the dead snake for necropsy WITH histopathology of at least the GI tract and preferably all major organs, and fecal exams for all snakes.

- There is only one herp vet in the area. I was talking to the secretary but she couldn't give me information on the tests so I have to discuss the tests with the vet Thursday.

3) Ask the breeder you got them from if she has seen anything like this in her collection. She may be one step ahead of you (if she will tell you).

- She has had more reguges than the norm, her snakes have not had testing, and shes giving me a full refund. A friend of mine got one from her around the same time I did, his died last weekend.

4) Put the entire collection on lockdown. It does not have to be too late for your other snakes. All regurging or non-feeding snakes should be moved to a separate room. The rest of the collection/racks should be entirely emptied and cleaned with bleach. I would keep everyone on paper and use disposable hides and water bowls until you get this figured out. Get a box of latex gloves and designate a pair of gloves for every individual tub/cage. Deal with the sick snakes last and do not go back into the main snake room until you have showered and changed.

5) Identify "critical control points" such as the door knob to the snake room, the sink faucet handle, the temp gun, your shoes, etc and do everything you can to minimize cross contamination at these points.

- I think if majority have it already they likely all do?

6) Get an accurate gram scale and start weighing all snakes regularly. This will help you judge overall health as well as dehydration. I would also learn the "pinch test". Most snake species get much of their liquids from their food and regurging snakes can dehydrate quickly and may need to be soaked regularly. Keep in mind that this is stressful and should be kept short, luke warm, shallow, and closely supervised.

- I weigh my snakes every feed night. Most of them are packing on the weight, regurgers have stayed close to the same weight, ones that have dropped dramatically have been moved to smaller bins to keep a closer eye on them, and get a quick soak.

Majority of my collection is corns, the only other snakes I currently have is a trio of checkered garters, showing no symptoms.

Also there are no lumps, no other symptoms. They are all perfect. Here are some pics from last week ;

Refusing food
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6597.jpg

Refusing food

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6779.jpg

Regurging
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6595.jpg

Regurging
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6393-1.jpg

No Symptoms
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6526.jpg

No Symptoms
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6386.jpg

[KORBIN5895]

1st of all a little more info would be good. Are all of the snakes corns? Do any of the snakes have a midbody lump or any other symptoms?

If it were me, I would do the following...

1) Chuck every rodent in the freezer, bleach it, and order more from somewhere else.

2) Find a GOOD herp vet where you can bring the sick snake for exam, the dead snake for necropsy WITH histopathology of at least the GI tract and preferably all major organs, and fecal exams for all snakes.

3) Ask the breeder you got them from if she has seen anything like this in her collection. She may be one step ahead of you (if she will tell you).

4) Put the entire collection on lockdown. It does not have to be too late for your other snakes. All regurging or non-feeding snakes should be moved to a separate room. The rest of the collection/racks should be entirely emptied and cleaned with bleach. I would keep everyone on paper and use disposable hides and water bowls until you get this figured out. Get a box of latex gloves and designate a pair of gloves for every individual tub/cage. Deal with the sick snakes last and do not go back into the main snake room until you have showered and changed.

5) Identify "critical control points" such as the door knob to the snake room, the sink faucet handle, the temp gun, your shoes, etc and do everything you can to minimize cross contamination at these points.

6) Get an accurate gram scale and start weighing all snakes regularly. This will help you judge overall health as well as dehydration. I would also learn the "pinch test". Most snake species get much of their liquids from their food and regurging snakes can dehydrate quickly and may need to be soaked regularly. Keep in mind that this is stressful and should be kept short, luke warm, shallow, and closely supervised.

Your temps are marginal. Sick snakes need a wide temp gradient and a good basking spot to be able to boost their immune system. 84 probably isn't going to cut it.

In the future if you don't want this to happen again (and it will if you give it long enough) separate all incoming snakes in a separate room for at least 30 days and preferably longer(60-90). Run fecals ASAP. Sorry that you have to learn about this the hard way. Unfortunately this is the way most people start to quarantine. After they loose animals. Hopefully people will read this and take warning. Please keep us updated.


No offense but that's pretty steep advice for a first post. Especially considering the current info we have.

@Carlie

Glad to hear she is refunding you because it seriously sounds like it's a problem with her snakes. If you are worried about the feeder rodents you can get the vet to test them and see if there are any problems with them. No point in throwing away a while rodent order without testing a few. Where are you located?

[Carlie]

I am located in The Greater Sudbury Area, in Ontario, Canada.

I do think the problem originated in her snakes. I do admit I wasn't as careful as I should have been. I trusted her, I got snakes from her last year, did all the protocols, everything, they were perfect. I just moved, space was tight, I thought it was just going to be the same as last year, and I was wrong. So my snakes catching it is on me, and now I am paying drastically for it.

How much is testing the rodents, do you know? Sorry.

[Snakefood]

Sounds like you have it mostly in hand. The only things I would change are:

1) just because they've all been exposed, doesn't mean they all have it. each individuals immune system is different, please do get the sick ones away from the "healthy" ones and if another starts showing symptoms, transfer that one and bleach the whole "healthy" rack.

2) bump up those high end temps, it boosts thier immune systems and helps to digest food faster and therefore reduces the chances of regurges. I keep my corns hot end at 86/87.

3) once you offer food to the ones regurging, offer pinky mice or rats and slit the prey's skin, this also allows for faster digestion to prevent regurges.

[Carlie]

1) just because they've all been exposed, doesn't mean they all have it. each individuals immune system is different, please do get the sick ones away from the "healthy" ones and if another starts showing symptoms, transfer that one and bleach the whole "healthy" rack.

I currently don't have another system to put them in. The unhealthy ones wouldn't have a heat source if I moved them, Unless I downgrade their bins and put 2 or 3 on each heat pad. I know this is going to sound awful but depending on what they come back with the whole clan might be culled. I can't afford to do individual testing on each animal.
- I do have a question tho, I have talked to a friend of mine about this, he wants a pet snake, one that is not showing symptoms, and has no other animals. He knows everything, all the risks, is it wrong to give one to him?

2) bump up those high end temps, it boosts thier immune systems and helps to digest food faster and therefore reduces the chances of regurges. I keep my corns hot end at 86/87.

Done. Currently monitoring it to make sure it doesn't go too high.

3) once you offer food to the ones regurging, offer pinky mice or rats and slit the prey's skin, this also allows for faster digestion to prevent regurges.

When I offer food to ones that have regurged I offer a smaller food size, slit and sprinkled with nurtibac. Also wait 10 days before offering it.

[Snakefood]

1) if you've been completely honest with everything about the illness running through your collection and he is willing to take on both the risk and responsibility of a snake that could be coming to him sick, I see no reason not to give it to him.

2) cheap way to quarantine, heat tape or wire (on a dimmer/thermostat) and tubs. My quarantine rack is in my bathroom, holds up to 2 adult, 4 yearlings or 8 hatchlings and cost me $40.

3) SMALLER is not neccesarily enough, when your snake had multiple regurges, you want HAIRLESS

[millertime89]

No offense but that's pretty steep advice for a first post. Especially considering the current info we have.

steep? yeah, but a quality first post. This thread wound up on the Reptile Report so I have a feeling we're going to have a few experienced keepers making their way over here to lend some advice. I've noticed it on other occasions as well. Although I don't know this person's credentials, the advice is spot on for what you want to do when you have a potential disease outbreak on your hands.

if you've been completely honest with everything about the illness running through your collection and he is willing to take on both the risk and responsibility of a snake that could be coming to him sick, I see no reason not to give it to him.

I would agree, as long as he's aware of it, its not a bad option for a place to QT an animal. I QT'd a snake at a buddy's place before, worked great, if a little inconvenient. Even if you intend to give it to him permanently it'll hopefully keep the animal alive.

[KORBIN5895]

I have no idea what athe testing would cost on a mouse but probably not much.

If you have to kill off your whole collection then you have to. That's not cruel or wrong. Even if you had the money to test each snake it would probably be better to kill off your collection, wait one year and start fresh.

If your friend knows everything that is happening right now and he wants to take the chance, well more power to him. Good luck. It's a really tough spot you're in.

Oh, and congratulations on owning up to your quarantine mistake.

[KORBIN5895]

steep? yeah, but a quality first post. This thread wound up on the Reptile Report so I have a feeling we're going to have a few experienced keepers making their way over here to lend some advice. I've noticed it on other occasions as well. Although I don't know this person's credentials, the advice is spot on for what you want to do when you have a potential disease outbreak on your hands.

Quality or not this gent could've copy and pasted it. I honestly believe he knows what he is talking about but I am curious of his credentials too. He has apparently joined just to provide this info as he has no other posts atm.

[Carlie]

Thank you for all your help. I will keep you all updated on this. I will be hoping for the best, but even the best looks sort of grim at this point.

1) if you've been completely honest with everything about the illness running through your collection and he is willing to take on both the risk and responsibility of a snake that could be coming to him sick, I see no reason not to give it to him.

Thank you. I Will be placing a couple of them shortly with a friend to see how they do, and will be following up with them with a note (explaining the possibilities they could be sick, and could get others sick), and a photocopy of every single vet report. And will make it as clear as possible. My friend is only keeping the one but I want to place them there for a few weeks to see how they do. I have 2 other friends out of town that would be willing to take one each. Either way, sadly none of them will be staying with me. Bins will either be tossed or scrubbed down with ammonia several times over, and will not obtain any new snakes for a few months after these guys have cleared out.

2) cheap way to quarantine, heat tape or wire (on a dimmer/thermostat) and tubs. My quarantine rack is in my bathroom, holds up to 2 adult, 4 yearlings or 8 hatchlings and cost me $40.

Since he isn't taking all of the healthy ones I am moving them into my room, with a cheap and temporary dimmer switch heating system. My fiancee broke his foot 2 weeks ago so he won't be much help at this point but this is simple and quick enough for it to get done.

3) SMALLER is not neccesarily enough, when your snake had multiple regurges, you want HAIRLESS

Feeding night is tonight, they will all be receiving pinks/peach fuzzies. Thank you I never knew this, and always thought just a smaller size would be beneficial.

Owning up to my mistake is necessary. I cannot possibly blame the breeder who I got the snakes from, even though it originated from her snakes, she did not force the snakes into my rack. Also she is a charm to work with, and am very sad that this happened as it will prevent me from ordering from her again.

For those interested here is my Iherp, it features my tiny collection, but they are wonderful;

Ones regurging;
Bree, Butters, Equis, Freya, Sweets.

Ones refusing;
Candy, Noran, Talc (But Talc has always eaten at every second feeding, don't think he is actually sick but have to note it).

No symptoms;
Apollo, Areo, Bow, Damon, Dazzle, Fiesta, Mirage, Burr and Sissy. (Bow, Fiesta, and one other are being moved to my friends house to see how they will be)

iHerp : Online Reptile Software, Husbandry, Community, Tracking, Breeding, Snakes, and More! (http://iherp.com/Public/ShowUser.aspx?UserId=1ace6317-f0e2-4971-ae07-a47277209234)

And I am sorry if this thread has started anything, it was not my intention.

[Snakefood]

Naw, this thread didn't start anything.

And yes, the hair makes them harder to digest, so my regurges get pinky "something", mouse, rat and I would give my huge guy a pinky rabbit for a few feedings were he to regurge (but he's a healthy big boy)

[KORBIN5895]

Lol. You haven't started anything. Let us know when you get your results.

[millertime89]

And yes, the hair makes them harder to digest, so my regurges get pinky "something", mouse, rat and I would give my huge guy a pinky rabbit for a few feedings were he to regurge (but he's a healthy big boy)

You can order hairless mice from rodentpro, I just saw them on their site. All sizes.

Don't worry Carlie, you didn't start anything, this is just how forums are.

[Snakefood]

There are hairless rats too, ugly buggers!!

[zwhitman]

Thats the problem with forums. You never know who you are talking too. I don't consider a post count to make anyone an expert. And I always use my real name on all forums I post in. Zach Whitman by the way nice to meet everyone here.

I did join this forum just to reply to this post after I saw it on the reptile report. For what it is worth I am a senior vet student and I have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with disease outbreaks in reptile collections before (thankfully not my own!). Controlling something like this is a nightmare and it is expensive, but you can probably still salvage your collection. If you are not going to go all out you will probably loose more animals. As another post mentioned, I would not cull anything just yet. If nothing else just wait and see what happens. Snakes are tough and I would give them a chance.

I know the mice are expensive but seriously, all of this started with new snakes AND new mice. This could easily be salmonella or E coli or something like that from the mice and you just keep feeding it to them. I would be very hesitant to let snakes leave the collection at this point. While your friends house sounds like an OK situation, you loose control of what happens to that animal.

Since money is tight I would recommend spending whatever you have to to get good histopathology on the dead one. Get the gloves, a gallon of bleach, a roll of 3 inch flexwatt or a rubber coated heat cable, and a dimmer. All cheap. Then cross your fingers and hope for the best.

cheers

[KORBIN5895]

Nice to meet you Zach Whitman. Thanks for the back ground. You are absolutely correct about the post count I have a lot of posts but I am basically an idiot.:)

[millertime89]

Nice to meet you Zach Whitman. Thanks for the back ground. You are absolutely correct about the post count I have a lot of posts but I am basically an idiot.:)

yet we still love you.
Welcome to the forum Zach, always nice to have vets and those training to be them on the board.

[kernel]

Hate to hear about this. I have slacked off on quarantine and this thread has reminded me that if I don't get serious about it again, I may well regret it. Anyway, I pray this has a happy ending even though it looks grim. BTW, welcome to the forum Zach. Hope you stick around, we can always use a vet on the forums!

[Carlie]

Today I brought in a fecal sample, mice, and also 2 snakes. I woke up this morning to two snakes with swollen abdomens.

The mice are clean.

Crypto is the number one suspect.

Symptoms ; lethargic, swollen abdomens, weight loss, regurgitation, enlarged organs.

Test results will be back Monday.

[Snakefood]

I've heard crypto is nasty, what's the survival rate and treatment if it is crypto??

[Carlie]

Survival rate; 0

Treatments; only experimental exist

If it comes back positive all the snakes will be euthanized.

[Snakefood]

I'm sorry, that really sucks. I hope it's not crypto but rather something treatable

[Carlie]

I hope so too. But at this point I just want to know what is going on. Once I find out I can take action, the longer it is unknown, the longer they are suffering. But I do really hope it is not crypto.

[Snakefood]

I can relate to that

[MojoHerps]

Although crypto is not treatable there are probably some snakes that live for a long time without being ill. If this proves to be crypto you could try and just keep the snakes that are not showing signs of illness and hope for the best. If you did that though, you should not breed, sell or give away any of your snakes, or add to your collection.

If you do decide to euthanize all the snakes, and I can understand why you would, and decide to start all over it would probably mean getting rid of all your equipment and starting all over with new vivs and supplies. I don't think anyone knows how effective ammonia is to eradicate it. The spores of crypto are very hardy and can probably live for a long time in your home.

Good luck. This must be heart breaking.

[millertime89]

what is Crypto? Sounds like a fungal disease based on the spores Mojo mentioned. I'm assuming airborne respiratory disease? Does it only affect colubrids or can it infect boidae as well?

[MojoHerps]

It's a protozoan that has a spore stage during which it can survive in pretty much any environment.

We are all exposed to cryptosporidium (different ones than those than infect snakes) but most of us don't get sick or have a self limited diarrheal illness. In the immunocompromised the infection can be devastating.

Boids can be infected as well. I believe lizards can too but it might be a different one that infects them.

[millertime89]

Thanks Jo, I've never heard of it before.

[MojoHerps]

It's the parasite most keepers fear.

[Carlie]

The vet said that there are two strains of crypto. One that affects mammals, and ones that effect reptiles. She said all reptiles can get crypto, lizards may not show symptoms tho, but is often found in them after they pass away. Also said that most bearded dragons are carriers of it.

The one I took into the vet today has made a very quick turn for the worst. He was fed 2 days ago, what little food he did have in his stomach he managed to regurge. He became instantly dehydrated. I just finished giving him a bath, the swelling looks like it has doubled. The areas in his stomach that are not swollen are becoming indented. I was heartbroken when I opened the container.

Here are some picks of him, there was NO swelling yesterday on him. Sorry if there are some of you who don't want to see. At the bottom is his exam.

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6887.jpg

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6886.jpg

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6885.jpg

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6878.jpg

[millertime89]

Is that suspected crypto or confirmed?

[Carlie]

Suspected, test results won't be back till Monday. She is fairly certain tho.

[kernel]

Does that mean I could lose my collection by having bearded dragons?

[Carlie]

Oh I doubt it ! Sorry, they would have has to been exposed to crypto beforehand to be carriers of it.

[zwhitman]

So sorry to hear about this. That was why I asked about lumps in my initial post. This is almost certainly crypto.

Cryptosporidium serpentis is a protozoan parasite that infects various species of reptiles. It is transmitted by a fecal oral route. It invades the wall of the stomach causing swelling/regurge and it passes an oocyst into the environment that is extremely difficult to kill and can be infective for months. Unfortunately negative fecal tests do not mean the animal is negative. Colubrid snakes, leopard geckos, and beardies are all very susceptible.

You should absolutely not let snakes leave your collection (or obviously get any new ones) and you should be careful not to bring the disease to others collections on your cloths or equipment you sell. You should also talk to the breeder and try to convince her to talk to everyone that she has sold snakes to recently. Some snakes become symptomatic quickly but others can be asymptomatic carriers. Probably depends on both the variety of the bug as well as the health of the host.

[kernel]

Oh I doubt it ! Sorry, they would have has to been exposed to crypto beforehand to be carriers of it.

OK, good *relief*

[Carlie]

I know it is almost certainly crypto. But I am still waiting for tests to come back positive before I euthanize any snakes - even though I am debating 'helping' the golddust on his way. The only reason why I am leaving him for now is if the test comes back negative I would like it redone, and I would rather not pay a registration fee for another snake. If he dose happen to pass a necropsy will be preformed Monday if the tests come back negative, if not.. well there's no need.

This is just such a mess I don't know what to do anymore. I think the two who have lumps tho is a dead give away for crypto. I am preparing myself as best I can. And almost hoping the test comes back positive, just so I can put an end to this anxiety.

[Carlie]

GRAPHIC

As I suspected he did not make the night. I don't know if his body is still 'good' as it had a bit of a smell to him, but he is in the freezer anyways in case of negative tests.


Please do not scroll down if you do not wish to see a dead snake


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http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6901.jpg

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6902.jpg

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6906.jpg

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6907.jpg

[KORBIN5895]

From what I understand freezing a snake ruins the necropsy.

[Carlie]

I have been calling the vet to see what is the best way to preserve him but every time they put me on hold I get disconnected, so for now he is in the freezer.

[Lankyrob]

from what i understand freezing a snake ruins the necropsy.


^^^^^this^^^^^

[Carlie]

He has been moved to the fridge. He goes in to get a necropsy done in 3 hours.

[Snakefood]

sorry hun. that sucks.

I hope you figure it one way or the other, for your snakes and your own sake.

[millertime89]

I'm really sorry, what's up with the scale discoloration on his belly?

[Snakefood]

thier liver bursts shortly after death, regardless of COD, that is what the greenish is

[zwhitman]

If you can get the snake to a vet for a necropsy within about 48 hours, the fridge is the best place for it. If it is going to be longer than that, definitely freeze it. Freezing does cause some cell damage but plenty of good information can still come from a frozen necropsy. Make sure you tell your vet that the snake was frozen briefly, as a small snake like that will freeze quickly.

Snake livers do not burst after death. The green spot on the belly if from digestive enzymes which leak out of the gall bladder and pancreas after death, and begin to "digest" the tissues. This is normal from any cause of death.

[Snakefood]

sorry you're right, I got the wrong organ:hmm:

I was trying to go from memory, thanks for the correction;)

[Kingsnakechris]

Terribly sorry to hear about this, especially with having a new born. My son is 1 and he STILL demands 99% of my time and attention. I couldn't begin to try to imagine trying to sort out my snake collection and take care of him. I wish you the best of luck!

[Carlie]

Thank you all for your information and support. It is nice to have people to talk to who share the same passions and can understand how heartbreaking this truly is.

Kingsnakechris, he is not a newborn anymore but it is all still new to me ! He is not yet 6 months, so I am sure you can understand how much time he demands from me. Not to mention my financial struggles just putting more strain on everything. This is a huge hit to me, I just hope it will be resolved as soon as possible. The longer I wait for results, the more consumed I am with anxiety.

[Terranaut]

Sorry this is happening. Best if luck and I hope you do not lose your pets (I personaly hate the term collection)

[Carlie]

Thank you, sorry I never responded I have been super busy. The fecal came back negative, so this entire digestional track has been sent out for swabs, etc. The results for that should be back tomorrow.

[Trollbie]

Thank you, sorry I never responded I have been super busy. The fecal came back negative, so this entire digestional track has been sent out for swabs, etc. The results for that should be back tomorrow.

I'm glad it's not crypto! Here's to hoping that it's nothing nearly as serious. How are the other snakes doing?

[Snakefood]

Wow, bullet dodged!!

I hope your vet figures it our soon

I second the above, how are the rest doing??

[Carlie]

Just because it came back negative doesnt mean it is not crypto, crypto is very hard to get a positive from, thats why they are still looking for the crypto. The vet is still positive it is crypto, and said to expect a negative from the fecal, I just did that test first because they wouldnt do the swabs while he was alive. The other snakes are alright, some are still acting off, some are their usual selves.

[Carlie]

Tomorrow when the results get back from the organs, it still can be negative, and it still can be crypto, but the good thing with getting all the organs done if it is something else you are likely to find it.

[MojoHerps]

I am surprised the vet said the necropsy could be negative and it still could be crypto. I would think that if it got to the point of killing the animal then something would show. Was the snake that died one of the ones with the swollen body? If so I would think that finding thickening in the stomach or bowel wall would basically mean it was crypto regardless of whether the organism could be isolated.

[Carlie]

Yes he was swollen, this pic was taken the night he died, 2 days after feeding, plus he regurged the food. So he was empty.

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG6885.jpg

[Trollbie]

Oh :(

Well I still hope it's not crypto. And if it is, then I hope only he had it and that you won't lose anymore snakes.

[kernel]

Well, hopefully the next test comes back negative as well. Anything would be better than crypto.

[shaunyboy]

sorry to hear what your going through mate

i really hope its not crypto

all the best shaun

[Snakefood]

my thoughts are with you while you go through this.

I hope it ends well.

[Carlie]

The track came back again negative. But Blastocytis was found so I have started antibiotics, they receive them every 2 days. But again, she doesn't believe Blastocytis is even harming them, her vote is still on crypto. Sending him out for a PCR or histopathology on Monday.

[shaunyboy]

let us know how it goes pal

fingers crossed it goes well

all the best shaun

[millertime89]

Wow... two negatives, that's interesting.

[Trollbie]

I'm sorry! I'm sure 2 negatives are still causing you stress since you don't know what's happening :(

[Trollbie]

But I'm still hoping for a third negative :)

[millertime89]

as much as I hope he gets a 3rd negative, it would put an end to the speculation.

[a153fish]

The track came back again negative. But Blastocytis was found so I have started antibiotics, they receive them every 2 days. But again, she doesn't believe Blastocytis is even harming them, her vote is still on crypto. Sending him out for a PCR or histopathology on Monday.

You I have had snakes that showed many of the same symptoms before, minus the swollen abdomen, and responded positively to standard treatment of Flagyl, and Panicure. In fact that has been my protocol for any sick snake. Then if they don't begin doing better after those two meds, then I suspect Crypto, or something more serious.

[Snakefood]

You I have had snakes that showed many of the same symptoms before, minus the swollen abdomen, and responded positively to standard treatment of Flagyl, and Panicure. In fact that has been my protocol for any sick snake. Then if they don't begin doing better after those two meds, then I suspect Crypto, or something more serious.

I think they have already ruled out parasites in this case.

[kernel]

Even though it would put an end to this if it came back positive, I'm hoping it's not crypto cause then your snakes would have a chance.