First time owner

[Akuma223]

Hello all, I recently got a Black roughnecked monitor ( Varanus Rudicollis ) from a reptile store. I got him on march 13 and believe he is doing quite well. His tank is currently a bit small but I plan to upgrade as soon as possible so he can have lots of room to relax in. I am feeding him 3 pinkies every other day and give him crickets to chase at least once a week.

I want to know every single thing possible that can help me make sure I am giving him the proper care he needs. If anyone has any advice for me on how to improve things like taming, habitat, feeding, and anything else of importance please let me know. I want to do the best I possibly can to make my little guy happy and healthy.

Amusei Roughnecked monitor lizard - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZuQ65Sn1gw&context=C434d3a8ADvjVQa1PpcFMz5BBxGnSuaQ-djMKdARXveP4G4EgaeSM=)

Heres a video of him if anyone wants to correct my mistakes if there are some or give me pointers please tell me. His basking spot is at a hundred degrees Fahrenheit and I spray his cage with water a few times a day to keep humidity up.

[infernalis]

First pointer and most important.

No fish tank with a screen top will ever be appropriate for any monitor species.

People call that a "beef jerky machine"

as it will dehydrate the lizard and make it sick.

[infernalis]

I just subscribed to your youtube channel.

[Akuma223]

Yeah I know screen tops don't work well, like I said I am going to upgrade or better yet build a much nicer enclosure for him. I keep a wet towel over half of it to try and help keep humidity up. Any other tips?

[infernalis]

Well, if you read over my site, most of the data on there is not specific to Savannah's

Varanids all come from a narrow band of latitude (distance from the equator) so much of what works for one species apples to many others.

Of course there are differences, you wouldn't keep a water monitor in a desert, or a tree monitor in a pile of dirt.

But most of the same concepts apply.

Roughnecks are found in mangrove swamps and rain forests, so the humidity should be quite high.

You will want a nice large water container for it to swim in, a nice pile of dirt so it can dig a burrow in it and go underground.

and I am a firm believer in the concept that there is no such thing as an enclosure that is too large.

One of our members here has seen wild monitors that show up one day and he sees them again a day later 2 miles from where he saw them the day before.

Heck, my baby Savs are only 5 inches long right now, and the box I keep them in is 8 feet wide, it only takes either of them a matter of seconds to get from one end to the other.

People think I'm silly when they come to visit and see such a massive enclosure with such small lizards in it, until I explain how they use every inch of that space and still get bored.

It has become painfully apparent that I have about a year to partition out a 20 foot space in my basement and build a monitor habitat, or they won't be happy at all.

I like what you said in your video, if you raise up a tractable animal, taking it outside when the weather is nice will be a big plus for the animal.

To me quality of life is just as important as any other aspect of keeping them.

Leaving a lizard locked up in solitary confinement seems rather cruel, so I just won't do it.

[BarelyBreathing]

Hi and welcome. I have one of these guys, so ask away.

He can't stay in a fish tank. He will need a custom built 100% sealed enclosure made from wood. Your enclosure will need to be around 8x6x6 as a minimum, as these monitors are large and ACTIVE. They need trees (whether real or fake) in the enclosure. You will want enough treess so that it obscures your vision from the outside (and therefore your monitor's vision OF the outside).

You will need a basking temperature of 130F on the surface, and a cool side ambient (air) temperature of 75-80.

Roughnecks need much higher humidity levels than a lot of monitors. Gradient should be about 70-75% in the basking area to 90% humidity in the cool end. As well as providing an area with fresh water for them (a cat litter pan will work just fine), provide them a seperate area (again, a litter pan will be perfect) filled with mud. They love mud, and you will love watching him play in the mud.

I am also a big fan of hiding night crawlers in his enclosure for him to dig up and eat. This will provide both physical and mental stimulation in the form of hunting.

[Gungirl]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Barley Breathing and Infernalis gave you great advice. I am happy to see you hear wanting to learn and grow as a monitor owner.

[mo9e64]

I've had Blackroughneck Monitors myself,one of my favorites.I would try to limit handling as this can cause stress.the important thing is to establish a proper environment-keeping the animal hydrated,giving proper temp ranges and a proper deep substrate with tight secure hiding places.
Plan your adult cage immediately,if you're doing things right-you'll need it shortly.

[Akuma223]

The advice is extremely helpful everyone thanks. I started planning his next cage as soon as I got him and cant wait to build it. My father seems to have got it in his head that we don't need to build one but obviously he isn't the animal expert of the house. If things go as planned The cage for him will probably take up about half of my room and I cant wait. I have some good plans for him. I would like to set up a mister in his enclosure that will spray the tank a few times a day to keep humidity up and so its a bit like rain. I would love to make it semi aquatic but I'm not sure how that would work out. Does anyone have any more tips about food? I want to have a very good variety for him to keep things interesting and to keep him healthy and happy. I also love the earth worm idea, I'll buy some fish bait when I get the chance. I don't have a UV light for him because the man we bought him from said we didn't need it. Is this correct? I take him and my ball python outside when its warm and sunny because I think its good for them to get real sunlight and just in case he really needs it. It'll probably take awhile to convince my dad to help me build and make a nice elaborate enclosure because he's the one paying for it but I know I will get what I want :D

[mo9e64]

there's a good thread on hydration on varanus.net right now.Hydration the most important aspect of a monitors health is more than just about humidity-it's easy to get sidetracked with these single topic remedies.It's important how to create conditions so your monitor can thrive.

don't worry about uv light,get the proper conditions a proper basking spot,like BarelyBreathing said 130F proper conditions -make sure they get enough whole prey items.

If you set up the cage properly,misting should be minimal-if you have to mist lots you're cage is too ventilated.

Whatever you think you know about monitor care is probably wrong,go in with an openmind,don't take anything personally and everything becomes clear ,quickly.

[BarelyBreathing]

That enclosure needs to be built right away, especially if he's living in a fish tank. When I got my black throat, there was another one at the same store in the same enclosure. It was purchased two days after me by somebody else who kept it in a fish tank despite the store's warning. It lasted a week and a half before they brought the body back and demanded their money (they didn't get their money back). I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just trying to impress upon you the urgency of a proper set up.

As far as food goes, whole prey only. There is a big misconception about what "whole prey" means (most people think it means vertibrate prey). In reality, it just means that you are feeding the animal in it's entirety- head, heart, blood, guts, lungs, eyeballs, legs. All prey items should be gut loaded (feeding nutritious food to your feeders), whole, fresh, and organic. Preservatives contain a chemical in them that is poisonous to reptiles. Some good prey items include:
-Crickets
-Roaches (it would be a great idea to start a roach colony)
-Silversides
-Grasshoppers
-Locusts
-Snails
-Slugs
-Crayfish
-Adult mice (chopped up if your monitor is too small to eat them whole)
-Freshwater crab
-Fresh whole shrimp
-Fertilized quail egg with a developed chick inside
-Quail (chicks, or chopped adults)

Moe touched on something important. A properly sealed enclosure requires little maintenance in the form of keeping humidity up. The reason why this is so important is because the constant exchange between wet and dry air is actually almost as bad for the animal as a constant humidity that is too low. Correct constant humidity and correct temperatures for these guys is key.

Also, I keep a UV-B light in my rudi's enclosure. He uses it often, too. I believe somebody already mentioned that this is a very shy species that is prone to stress. Therefore, they shouldn't be handled very often. Taking them outside often could be catastrophic for their wellbeing.

[Gregg M]

Your enclosure will need to be around 8x6x6 as a minimum,

I do not agree with this at all. That is not a minimum size cage for that species. That is a very large cage for black roughnecks. In fact, you could easily house a trio of roughnecks in a cage that big.
4 feet high, 5 feet wide and 3 feet deep would be plenty of space for a single adult roughneck.

Not sure where you get these "minimums" from. If that is your personal preference, thats fine, but just explain it as such.

[BarelyBreathing]

You'd put an animal with the potential to get 5 feet long in an enclosure that's 5x3x4? Really?

[mo9e64]

Either way, designing a cage around meeting their requirements is first and foremost.When i had my rudicollis,i went by the old books no internet,huge cage that was useless -could of been a barn if it does meet certain conditions it really doesn't matter how big.
start simple,you have what appears to be a healthy monitor,if you are going to continue using the aquarium at least put a solid top on it,have a low wattage bulb 45-50w or lower floodlight on one end inside the enclosure,coconut husk mixed with a bit of sand and dirt 8-10" deep.It should not be allowed to dry out but you don't want it wet.Under the basking spot raise or lower a flat piece of board so that it has an area the size at least of it's body reaches 130F using a infrared thermometer.If you measure humidity it will be normal for the basking spot to be much drier than the rest of the cage.
The thing to remember is you don't need much ventilation-with the deep substrate tight hiding spots and low wattage bulbs and limited ventilation humidity issues are covered.
If the room is cool under 72F i would add so insulation to the back and sides,i used styrene cut to size.the major downside to aquariums is they don't offer much insulation,good moisture retention though.

This is just my opinion based on my experiences with my Bluetail Monitors but i wouldn't have the cool end lower than 78-80F.

[Gregg M]

You'd put an animal with the potential to get 5 feet long in an enclosure that's 5x3x4? Really?

Show me one black roughneck even close to 5 feet long. They average 3 to 4 feet long. Those animals are more tail than body as well. Yes, a black roughneck will do perfectly in a 5 foot wide, 4 feet high 3 feet deep cage its entire life. That is plenty of space.

Again, an 8x6x6 would house a trio easily.

So, again, where do you get these cage size minimums of yours?


This is just my opinion based on my experiences with my Bluetail Monitors but i wouldn't have the cool end lower than 78-80F.

Mo, Well said.
There is no reason for any varanids ambient temps to be below 80 degrees F. 80 to 82 would be perfect. I never seen a reason to drop them into the 70's.

[KORBIN5895]

Show me one black roughneck even close to 5 feet long. They average 3 to 4 feet long. Those animals are more tail than body as well. Yes, a black roughneck will do perfectly in a 5 foot wide, 4 feet high 3 feet deep cage its entire life. That is plenty of space.

So you feel its okay to put a three foot lizard in a three foot deep enclosure? Especially considering that three feet would be outside dims and the actual interior would be less than three. That seems small to me.

[infernalis]

If the room is cool under 72F i would add so insulation to the back and sides,i used styrene cut to size.the major downside to aquariums is they don't offer much insulation,good moisture retention though.

This is just my opinion based on my experiences with my Bluetail Monitors but i wouldn't have the cool end lower than 78-80F.

Insulation on the top is awesome too.

Heat rises, so insulating the "roof" will keep more of the heat inside the cage where you want it.

Excellent post Moe.http://www.varanus.us/smile/yes.gif

[geckodog]

Good luck with him,

[Akuma223]

Yay more advice! I'll talk to my dad about insulation and see if he's willing to get some for the cage. I want more then enough room for him to run around in his new cage so the bigger it is the better. I want it to be long and tall so he has room to climb, move, and turn around easily when he's big.

[BarelyBreathing]

Show me one black roughneck even close to 5 feet long. They average 3 to 4 feet long. Those animals are more tail than body as well. Yes, a black roughneck will do perfectly in a 5 foot wide, 4 feet high 3 feet deep cage its entire life. That is plenty of space.

Again, an 8x6x6 would house a trio easily.

So, again, where do you get these cage size minimums of yours?



Mo, Well said.
There is no reason for any varanids ambient temps to be below 80 degrees F. 80 to 82 would be perfect. I never seen a reason to drop them into the 70's.

Mine. He's HUGE. Given the average maximum is about four feet, though, I get my minumum by multiplying the length of the monitor by two (as is pretty standard for monitor care, even though I think it should be three times the length of the monitor), and considering how they like to climb, the enclosure should be tall enough to allow for this).

[Gregg M]

So you feel its okay to put a three foot lizard in a three foot deep enclosure? Yes, that is plenty of space. And when we talk about the size of the cage I am refering to the inside dimentions, not the outside.

Mine. He's HUGE.

One word. PICTURES? I said show me, not tell me.

Do you even have photos of any of your animals or their cages? I would love to see this 8x6x6 you are keeping him in as well.

I saw a photo of your "huge" black roughneck. Looks average in size and it looks as if you keep him in a glass aquarium. Thats just what the photo tells me. In fact, it looks like all of your varanids are kept in glass aquariums.

Given the average maximum is about four feet, though, I get my minumum by multiplying the length of the monitor by two (as is pretty standard for monitor care, even though I think it should be three times the length of the monitor), and considering how they like to climb, the enclosure should be tall enough to allow for this).

That is your personal preference not the "standard". I am not saying you should not offer that kind of space. I think you should go as large as possible. But to say that your preference is the bare minimum anyone should go is just rediculous.

[BarelyBreathing]

Wait, really? First you say you've never seen my animals, then you say my monitors are kept in glass aquariums? Which one is it?

[KORBIN5895]

Yes, that is plenty of space. And when we talk about the size of the cage I am refering to the inside dimentions, not the outside.


.

So you are telling me a when you build a 4'x2'x2' your outside dims are 4'4.25"x2'4.25"x2'4.25"?

[Gregg M]

Wait, really? First you say you've never seen my animals, then you say my monitors are kept in glass aquariums? Which one is it?

Here ya go.
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/89765-my-monitors.html
Do not try to distract from what I am saying. I never said I have never seen your animals. I am asking you if you have a picture of this 5 foot black roughneck and it giant 8x6x6 cage. Because all I have seen from you is a lot of talk and nothing else.

And whats up with giving you varanids stuffed toys?

So you are telling me a when you build a 4'x2'x2' your outside dims are 4'4.25"x2'4.25"x2'4.25"?

I thought this statement was pretty self explanitory. And whats with the 4.25 figure?

And when we talk about the size of the cage I am refering to the inside dimentions, not the outside.

[BarelyBreathing]

That would be them. So, where do you see glass aquariums? Because I definitely see wood and FRP, and one is plexi-glass.

[mo9e64]

i'm still wondering where Korbin got his figure from as well LOL

[Gregg M]

That would be them. So, where do you see glass aquariums? Because I definitely see wood and FRP, and one is plexi-glass.

Glass aquarium
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/DSC_00053.jpg

This must be the 8x6x6 you keep your HUGE 5 foot black roughneck in. Oh wait, no its not, its a glass aquarium with a black roughneck that is maybe all of 3 feet.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m611/SnakeShed/DSC_0241.jpg

So for the 3rd time, do you have a picture of this 5 foot black roughneck and its 8x6x6 cage?

[BarelyBreathing]

The first enclosure is plexi-glass and wood. The second enclosure that the black throat is in is actually Max's current enclosure. It's not an aquarium, in fact, the only glass is at the front. That picture is taken looking down with the camera through the door. Raven lives at my studio now, so he's in a different enclosure.

So again, I'll ask you, where do you see glass aquariums?

[KORBIN5895]

I thought this statement was pretty self explanitory. And whats with the 4.25 figure?

i'm still wondering where Korbin got his figure from as well LOL

Those figures are built on the assumption that you are building your enclosure on a two by four frame and using ¾ inch plywood.

So since a 2"x4" is actually 1.5"x¾" an you would have to account for two of them on each end that would add 3" on the total length ( remember you are measuring inside dimension). The add another 1.25" for the two ⅝" sheets of plywood attached to the 2"x4" frame. So 3"+1.25" and you get 4.25". That figure also excludes any interior plywood you would add to the frame.

Again I am assuming you build half decent enclosure for you reptiles and I also am taking you at your word that your measurements are inside dimensions not external dimensions.

[Gregg M]

The first enclosure is plexi-glass and wood. The second enclosure that the black throat is in is actually Max's current enclosure. It's not an aquarium, in fact, the only glass is at the front. That picture is taken looking down with the camera through the door. Raven lives at my studio now, so he's in a different enclosure.

So again, I'll ask you, where do you see glass aquariums?

You say those are not glass aquariums. I say they are. Please, prove me wrong and post pics of all these proper varanid cages you have. Let me and everyone else see your 5 foot black roughneck and its 8x6x6 cage. No more BS.

You are running around here telling people how to care for their monitors yet you can not even hatch leopard gecko eggs.

You say you bred V. scalaris but can not provide a single photo of an egg incubating one hatching. No pics of a pair of scalaris copulating. Not even a clear photo of the hatchling.

You know someone who has bred 4 generations of savannahs in captivity but can not provide any details of the project. No photos, not data, nothing at all.

Not saying you are lieing. Just saying you do a lot of talking but do not show anything. After now 4 request to see this gigantic 5 foot long black roughneck and its 288 cubic foot cage, you still have not shown a photo. All you do is side step the request and try to mask it with a different argument. Just show some proof and shut me up already.

And please explain the stuffed animals in your varanid cages, please.

[Xanafein]

Ok can you please take your pissing contest To private messages please, You are hardly sending the right message to a new and inexperienced Keeper

I would go with BB's Cage dimensions Simply because there can NEVER be to much space when it comes to a happy monitor

[mo9e64]

i was thinking the same thing,but turning a negative into a positive all Greg is doing is challenging.the beginner shouldn't just accept what we say here-there will be mixed messages ie uvb lighting.the reality of forums is a little fact mixed with alot of bs-the beginner has the task of using these methods and determining who is giving them advice based on successful experience.To me no matter what i think of BarelyBreathing,it is confirmed Greg is a experienced sucessful keeper based on what others say and what he has to say ,and what he shown(pics)too me it's a no brainer.

[mo9e64]

do you guys have a gauge for measuring how happy a monitor is,i personally don't know if my monitors are happy,but i can gauge how they are doing-if others are keeping monitors are getting better or worse results that is the bar height i should set and it can change. growth breeding longevity etc

[Xanafein]

I dont keep monitors, But as a genral rule, the more space an Active animal Has the more they enjoy it

[BarelyBreathing]

You say those are not glass aquariums. I say they are. Please, prove me wrong and post pics of all these proper varanid cages you have. Let me and everyone else see your 5 foot black roughneck and its 8x6x6 cage. No more BS.

You are running around here telling people how to care for their monitors yet you can not even hatch leopard gecko eggs.

You say you bred V. scalaris but can not provide a single photo of an egg incubating one hatching. No pics of a pair of scalaris copulating. Not even a clear photo of the hatchling.

You know someone who has bred 4 generations of savannahs in captivity but can not provide any details of the project. No photos, not data, nothing at all.

Not saying you are lieing. Just saying you do a lot of talking but do not show anything. After now 4 request to see this gigantic 5 foot long black roughneck and its 288 cubic foot cage, you still have not shown a photo. All you do is side step the request and try to mask it with a different argument. Just show some proof and shut me up already.

And please explain the stuffed animals in your varanid cages, please.


Dude, I don't even keep bandeds. Where are you getting this information from?

And those enclosures have been posted from different angles on this website, and the entire enclosures (and pictures of the build process) have been posted on other enclosures. The picture of the rough neck's enclosure is actually in the newspaper (not for the enclosure, but for my studio. Just search it). I envite you to come to my house (and please bring thermometers and hygrometers) to see (and feel) how my monitors are being kept yourself. The only thing I keep in glass tanks are snakes, geckos, and a skink. (And you're more than welcome to see how they're doing, too).

[Akuma223]

cage in progress. It will be 7ft long 4 ft high and 23 inch wide.

[MoreliAddict]

BB you should link us to the threads where you posted your monitors and enclosures. I'm not trying to dive into an argument or anything, I'm just interested to check them out.

[Mikey T]

23 inches wide seems a little narrow... but i will leave that to the more experienced keepers here.

[infernalis]

23 inches wide seems a little narrow... but i will leave that to the more experienced keepers here.

seems quite narrow to me as well.

[Akuma223]

It is unfortunately because the original plan was to fit it into my room. The thing is so damn heavy however that we decided to put it in the living room. The cage Is more for him now then when he is big. When he is big he can roam the house and stretch his legs without me worrying about losing sight of him. At his current size I have to keep a close eye on him so he doesn't slip into somewhere we cant find him. I take him out of his cage almost once everyday so he can explore and exercise. When possible I take him outside to run around in the sun which he enjoys very much, I don't think it will be too much of a problem for him because he should have enough room to turn around comfortably because most of his length will be tail.

[mo9e64]

You should ask questions,to design a larger cage you have to practice on your growup cage,for you smaller is better.You can do whatever you want,but the fact is you made some poor choices already.Melamine is a poor material for cages-not that you asked you should have

[Akuma223]

Ummm okay then. I talked to my dad about different ways to water proof it and kept saying melamine would work just fine. He said he watched tutorials and googled **** and said this looked best. Its too late to go back now but I will keep things said in mind for future cages. Him and I are working hard to make this very nice for my little man. If there are any other mistakes anyone can notice please tell. Its always helpful.

[infernalis]

If there are any other mistakes anyone can notice please tell. Its always helpful.


++1

I wish everyone could take constructive criticism as well as you. Kudos

[BarelyBreathing]

++1

I wish everyone could take constructive criticism as well as you. Kudos


I agree.

You can line it with FRP, althought it's pretty expensive. I have a melamine coated wood enclosure. I sealed it with polyurethane. It's holding up well, but it was always meant to be a temporary enclosure. After I'm done with it, it's going to be used for a non-humidity loving skink.

[mo9e64]

Melamine is okay in the short term or temporary enclosures and sealing them or covering the interior with FRP would solve the issues with melamine,my point is why not ask what materials are best for an enclosure.To act and ask questions later is silly,we all make mistakes even if we follow the best advice,your path just means your going to make more unnecessary mistakes.It's apparent that you are open to some things and not others.The reason i say this is your attitude about handling,you don't realize how handling can affect the animals ability to acclimatize.
I am pretty much a beginner i decided to take advice from those that through trial and error knows what works and what doesn't.It's expensive and challenging keeping monitors,why not do it right the first time.

[millertime89]

Melamine regrettably absorbs moisture, however sealing it correctly you can increase the lifespan of it. Once you see the covering starting to peel you need a new enclosure. Silicone sealant on all edges and especially the corners. One thing I've seen is people will get a plastic or linoleum tile and cover the inside and then seal it again. Makes sense that it would hold up better.

[Dehlida]

Melamine is crap, save yourself the trouble and scrap it now.

[Gregg M]

Dude, I don't even keep bandeds. Where are you getting this information from?.

Dude,
you say you bred "V. similis". Varanus similis is not a recognized species. They are actually, in reality, Varanus scalaris. Which by the way are technically still subspecies of V. timorensis. So, where do you get your information from? How do you breed a species and not know what you are actually breeding?

[BarelyBreathing]

Similis is a sub-species of timorensis.

[Gregg M]

Similis is a sub-species of timorensis.

Yeah, I already said that. Incase you missed it.

They are actually, in reality, Varanus scalaris. Which by the way are technically still subspecies of V. timorensis.

scalaris and "similis" are the same animal.

[BarelyBreathing]

No, they aren't. Studies show that they are anatomically different in the... erm... "hemi" region.

[Gregg M]

V. similis is now often considered to form a separate complex with V. scalaris (Bennett 1995, Böhme 2003), or to be a subspecies of V. scalaris (Smith et al. 2004).

Show me something past those dates that elevated V. similis to full species status.

Varanus similis has not been elevated to full species status Reason being is because the differences between them and V, scalaris are so slight it so far, does not warrent elevation. Varanus "similis" was actually a made up trade name so that animals could be imported.

I know exactly where you got your information. It is about 25 years old and can be found on google.

[mo9e64]

To me Varanus 'similis' is a monitor from New Guinea.To anyone exact nomenclature is subjective,it's either important or not-next week the name might change again,so really why is it so important.I would just point my finger at it and say it exists by whatever name you want to call it.

Greg,I know you are pointing out inconsistencies,some will see them,some won't or care.

[BarelyBreathing]

But white spot monitors are still not the same monitors as banded monitors. I do not keep bandeds. I keep white spots. That's the point I was trying to make, which has absolutely nothing to do with black rough neck monitor enclosure size.

[millertime89]

To anyone exact nomenclature is subjective,it's either important or not-next week the name might change again,so really why is it so important.I would just point my finger at it and say it exists by whatever name you want to call it.

Winner, stop bickering over the little details. Unless its about burm vs indian python does it really matter?