View Full Version : regurgitating snake
On March 3 I bought my first snake from a reptile expo. I got a male kenyan sand boa and named him Hammer. The guy I got him from said he was feeding his snakes live mice. I used frozen/thawed pinkies and Hammer didn't have a problem eating them, he just won't keep them down. I fed him the first time on March 6 which was 7 days from his last feeding. A few days later he regurgitated it. I didn't know that's what it was at the time, I thought it was poop. So a week later I fed him again and when he regurged that one I thought "It is supposed to still look like a mouse and smell so bad?", did some research, and found out it wasn't poop. I got on a another forum but those guys weren't a whole lot of help and stopped responding. They said that Hammer should be eating fuzzies and not pinkies so on the 29th I gave him a fuzzy and a few days later he regurgitated that one too. I'm calling the vet tomorrow to see if there is anything they can do. I was told to get him checked for parasites but I don't have a fecal sample to provide.
At the beginning I had Hammer in sand substrate (I took him out of the tank to feed so he wouldn't ingest any sand) but after the second regurge I have switched him over to aspen. I don't have anything between the aspen and the bottom of the tank. On the bottom of the tank (its 10 gallons) is a Zoo-med UTH mini size. It's 4 watts. I have a shallow water dish on the other side of the tank and a small hiding place in the middle. I also have a light but it's not for heating. 76.4
I switched him to aspen because I was told the aspen would have better air circulation and lower my temps. In the sand it was 97 on the warm side and about 80 on the cool side. Now it is almost 115 directly over the middle of the UTH, 76.4 on the cool side, and 81.5 in the middle which is even hotter. The humidity right now is at 40.
So here are my questions:
What temps should my tank be at?
Should I get a terrarium liner?
Is the UTH too small? Too big? It covers about a 1/4 of the bottom.
Should he be eating pinkies or fuzzies?
If the vet cannot check for parasites without a fecal can I go ahead and treat him for it just in case?
He still has a good appetite and eats everything I give him but also regurgitates everything I give him. Lately he seems to be getting agitated and may be losing weight. I post some pictures of him and the tank and get his current weight. The guy I got him from said Hammer was from last years hatch so is he considered a yearling? I'm not sure of the exact date.
infernalis
04-02-12, 10:21 PM
there are some people here who can help you better, but I know this much, regurgitation is not anything to do with parasites.
It's not? I was told the top reasons for regurgitation were improper temps and parasites.
He's throwing up the food days after he's eaten. Is this vomiting and not regurgitation?
mystichrome
04-02-12, 11:44 PM
it could have something to do with the fact that he was eatting live and not frozen.....
infernalis
04-02-12, 11:51 PM
It's not? I was told the top reasons for regurgitation were improper temps and parasites.
No the whole physiology behind parasites is that they need the host to remain alive, if the host perishes, the parasite dies with it.
Parasites (Flukes, worms) gain their nourishment from the host animal, so the host animal needs to digest that meal.
KORBIN5895
04-03-12, 04:54 AM
it could have something to do with the fact that he was eatting live and not frozen.....
Sorry but that has no correlation.
I had a terrible time with my colombian boa when I first got it because my temperatures were off. He would regurgitate up to five days later because his tank was too cold and he wasn't able to digest it.
As far as ksb setups go I have no idea. There is a section on her for them I believe that maybe of some help. Let me see what I can find.
shaunyboy
04-03-12, 06:14 AM
TOP 10 reasons for regurgitation
1.handling too much or too soon after feeding
2.a sharp sudden drop or rise in ambient temperatures or just improper temperature for digestion
3.increased stress (including from mating) soon after feeding
4.a meal that is too large,too old,or too toxic or offered too frequently
5.bacterial infection
6.protozoal infection ( amoeba,coccidian,flagellate )
7.metazoan ( worm ) infection
8.tumor
9.excessive drinking right after eating
10.dehydration
the above list was taken from.....
what's wrong with my snake
by,John Rossi.DVM,MA and Roxanne Rossi
i hope you get the problem sorted out mate
cheers shaun
CK SandBoas
04-03-12, 07:55 AM
How often are you continuing to offer food after a regurge? You should wait at least 2 weeks after a regurge to give the snake time to recover and rebuild up the stomach flora needed to properly digest. And when you do offer him prey again, go smaller than usual, not larger. I'm not surprised he regurged the fuzzy, honestly. And do you have a thermostat attached to your uth? If not, you really need to get one, so you can get the proper temp on the hot side. 115 is too hot in my opinion, you need to get it down to 95-97, that's what I keep my kenyans at.
MoreliAddict
04-03-12, 08:27 AM
After a regurg you should not offer food again for over 2 weeks.
After the last pinky I gave him I did wait two weeks. I realized the fuzzy was a bad idea after he started to eat it but by then it was too late and I didn't want to try to take it away. I'll go get a thermostat today and in two weeks try again with a pinky. Does the mouse need to be at any certain temperature? I thaw them out in warm water.
CK SandBoas
04-03-12, 12:07 PM
You need to make sure the rodent is thoroughly thawed out before even offering it to the animal. I usually take my rodents out first thing in the morning and let them thaw at room temp. They are always completely thawed out that way when I go to offer them. I also use a hair dryer to heat them up a bit, to make them more appealing.
Hot side temps of 88-92 is ideal.
Heat up your food items in hot water and offer wet.
hellosugaree
04-03-12, 02:05 PM
Maybe get another hide? If he only has one hide, he doesn't have a choice of what temp he wants to be at if he wants to be in a hide. He just gets whatever temp in the place where you set the hide. When will you consider taking him to the vet? Did you contact your seller and see if he has ever had any problems like this before?
hellosugaree
04-03-12, 02:13 PM
No the whole physiology behind parasites is that they need the host to remain alive, if the host perishes, the parasite dies with it.
Parasites (Flukes, worms) gain their nourishment from the host animal, so the host animal needs to digest that meal.
HIV doesn't benefit by killing you, but eventually it (indirectly) causes your death. Just because something isn't advantageous for a parasite, it does not necessarily mean that it won't happen in a particular individual. A parasite may not intend to make an animal regurgitate food or die as part of it's "plan." I would never rule out parasites only on the premise that the way it makes an animal sick doesn't support itself. I'm not claiming to be an expert or suggesting that your snake has parasites, but I am saying that regurgitation doesn't exclude parasites because it doesn't nourish them. The way an animal reacts to sickness is a combination of host and parasite responses.
Most importantly, don't take any advice too seriously, including mine. I'm not a veterinarian or a snake expert.
Sorry to hear about your snake. I can imagine issues like these are probably very difficult to pinpoint and a pain to solve in cases where it isn't something completely obvious like playing catch outside with your snake after it eats.
KORBIN5895
04-03-12, 02:47 PM
HIV doesn't benefit by killing you, but eventually it (indirectly) causes your death. Just because something isn't advantageous for a parasite, it does not necessarily mean that it won't happen in a particular individual. A parasite may not intend to make an animal regurgitate food or die as part of it's "plan." I would never rule out parasites only on the premise that the way it makes an animal sick doesn't support itself. I'm not claiming to be an expert or suggesting that your snake has parasites, but I am saying that regurgitation doesn't exclude parasites because it doesn't nourish them. The way an animal reacts to sickness is a combination of host and parasite responses.
Most importantly, don't take any advice too seriously, including mine. I'm not a veterinarian or a snake expert.
Sorry to hear about your snake. I can imagine issues like these are probably very difficult to pinpoint and a pain to solve in cases where it isn't something completely obvious like playing catch outside with your snake after it eats.
Isn't HIV a virus?
infernalis
04-03-12, 03:25 PM
Isn't HIV a virus?
Yes, HIV is a virus, and furthermore it's intended host is a primate that can tolerate the virus.
It was introduced into the human population when a group of scientists were testing a vaccine for the common cold.
Viruses and single cell organisms are called infections, not parasites.
But I digress, I know nothing.
KORBIN5895
04-03-12, 03:32 PM
Yes, HIV is a virus, and furthermore it's intended host is a primate that can tolerate the virus.
It was introduced into the human population when a group of scientists were testing a vaccine for the common cold.
Viruses and single cell organisms are called infections, not parasites.
But I digress, I know nothing.
Join my little world then.;)
So my shopping adventure for a thermostat failed. I called every petstore in town (Petco, pet supplies plus, Petsmart, Uncle Bills Pet Center, and Petware House) and only found one at Petsmart. It's not what I wanted but I'm giving it a try. It only has settings for low, medium, and high. So far it looks like I'm probably going to take it back tomorrow. I set it to medium and my temps spiked up to 135. I set it down to low to see what that gives me. I guess I'm going to have to get a good one online. I was looking at this one:
Zilla Terrarium Thermostat Temperature Controller - 500 Watt Lighting Reptiles Pet Supplies HorseLoverZ.com (http://www.horseloverz.com/Zilla-Terrarium-Thermostat-Temperature-Controller---500-Watt-pr-572680.html)
Hammer mostly stays under the bedding. If I lift up the tank I can see where he's been. I've never actually seen him in the hide but I'll get another one anyway. I tried to contact the seller but I lost his info. There is another reptile show this weekend so I'm going to see if he's there again.
hellosugaree
04-04-12, 11:03 AM
Sounds like you have a rheostat (dimmer), not a thermostat. A thermostat measures temperature usually with a probe and automatically adjusts the power output to maintain the temps at a range around the set point. A rheostat just allows you to adjust the power at a constant level, but it will not compensate for the actual temperature in the enclosure. If you cranked a heater up to 95 degrees in your room, a rheostat controller would still put out the same amount of power to the heating mat as it would if the room was 25 degrees, whereas a thermostat would shut off above the set point and turn on below it.
Yes its a rheostat. I'm taking it back today. I found one little pet store that has the zilla thermostat. I had them hold it for me. My temps are going all over the place. If I leave the heat mat plugged it it shoots up to 120-130, if i unplug it it goes down to about 75. I don't know why it's getting so hot but hopefully this thermostat will fix it. I read that it has an automatic shut off when the temps get too high even if its because the room is hot and not just the mat.
hellosugaree
04-04-12, 03:31 PM
Yes its a rheostat. I'm taking it back today. I found one little pet store that has the zilla thermostat. I had them hold it for me. My temps are going all over the place. If I leave the heat mat plugged it it shoots up to 120-130, if i unplug it it goes down to about 75. I don't know why it's getting so hot but hopefully this thermostat will fix it. I read that it has an automatic shut off when the temps get too high even if its because the room is hot and not just the mat.
That is how a thermostat works. However, you have to be careful how you place the probe. If the probe gets knocked loose and ends up in a cool part of the tank, then the thermostat will feed maximum power because it "thinks" the temperature is low. Do you have a heat lamp? I would recommend using a heat lamp as this can be used to raise the ambient temperature without such a dangerously high hot spot if you set it up right. Also consider putting some sort of insulating mat between the glass and the substrate so your snake can't burrow down onto bare glass on top of the heater. This will also buffer some of the heat since it seems to be really high.
Ok I have the thermostat. I just plugged it in and set it to 90. Should I place the probe in the substrate or not? Can I use newspaper on the bottom as a buffer?
hellosugaree
04-04-12, 05:43 PM
Ok I have the thermostat. I just plugged it in and set it to 90. Should I place the probe in the substrate or not? Can I use newspaper on the bottom as a buffer?
I would place the probe in the substrate over the heater. But if your snake knocks it loose, be aware that it will likely start cranking on high. Newspaper won't do much because its so thin. Would you pull a pot out of oven with newspaper gloves? Probably not ;) also be aware that the temp on the dial may not reflect the actual temperature that the thermostat adjusts to. You will have to monitor the temps and adjust it up or down until the actual temps you measure on your own are in the right range. Depending on the thermostat and where you place the probe and a million other factors, the temperature on the ddial and the actual temperature will probably be different. Once you get it adjusted though it should be fine. Make sense?
I have the probe over the heat mat but not directly over the center. My temps are still fluctuating but now its only between 88 and 95. I'm checking it every few hours and the highest it's gotten was 95.6. Is it ok that its still going up and down some? At least its not going from 75 to 135 anymore. I'm going to get a mat to cover the bottom later today. It's now been a week since I last fed Hammer.
hellosugaree
04-09-12, 09:41 AM
Isn't HIV a virus?
Yes, but you could easily extend the reasoning to whatever categories of disease-causing agents you consider a parasite. Malaria work better for you? It doesn't benefit by killing people, although it has another host, mosquito, in which it does not cause disease. In any case, the sooner people die from it, the less likely it is they will be bitten by mosquitos and continue to transmit the disease to others. Humans (or other animals depending on type) are essential for the life cycle of malaria... If you still don't consider malaria a parasite, you can apply it to whatever you consider a parasite.
By the way, parasite is a general term that refers to an association where one thing benefits at the expense of another and generally requires it for an essential part of it's reproductive cycle. It doesn't necessarily apply to one group of organisms or even necessarily living things at all (as you might argue viruses are not really living). In any case, where to draw the line on parasite/non parasite doesn't change the argument.
geckodog
04-09-12, 09:45 AM
You should probably give him some time to get use to his tank, and in a week or so, he probably will be eating fine. GOOD LUCK. hope he starts eating soon
Wolfus_305
04-09-12, 10:08 AM
Aww that doesn't sound too good. I really don't know what to tell you. When I was young and got my first snake he regurged but that was because his heating was wrong and it was my error.
I don't know what to tell you because he is actually eating it when it's offered, the problems I have are more related to my ball python, NOT wanting to eat, but that's because he's picky and likes to annoy me.
Good luck, I hope the thermostat and temps help :)
I fed Hammer last Thursday night. I used a pinky this time. I was gone over the weekend but tonight (Sunday) when I got home I checked his tank and so far there is so sign of a regurge. How long does it usually take for a snake to poop after it eats? I won't be satisfied until I see it lol
Lankyrob
04-16-12, 03:25 AM
I fed Hammer last Thursday night. I used a pinky this time. I was gone over the weekend but tonight (Sunday) when I got home I checked his tank and so far there is so sign of a regurge. How long does it usually take for a snake to poop after it eats? I won't be satisfied until I see it lol
Snakes that eat pinkies rarely poop as they digest pretty much everything, until they eat prey with fur then the poops get bigger and more often.
I fed Hammer last wednesday and last night and no regurges! Keeping my fingers crossed it stays that way.
CK SandBoas
04-26-12, 11:45 AM
I fed Hammer last wednesday and last night and no regurges! Keeping my fingers crossed it stays that way.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, and for Hammer!:)
I found out last night that Hammer knows how to climb. I caught him climbing up the probe wire. Is eco earth safe for sand boas? I use it for my hognose and I'd like to switch Hammer over to it.
CK SandBoas
04-26-12, 12:08 PM
I found out last night that Hammer knows how to climb. I caught him climbing up the probe wire. Is eco earth safe for sand boas? I use it for my hognose and I'd like to switch Hammer over to it.
I really can't give you an answer on the Eco Earth, as i've never used it with my Kenyans. I will say i prefer the shredded aspen to sand, by far. And Sand Boas are very capable climbers, and will try and take advantage of any small weakness in an enclosure and make their escape, so i would keep an eye on your little guy, and that probe wire:)
hellosugaree
04-26-12, 01:23 PM
I fed Hammer last wednesday and last night and no regurges! Keeping my fingers crossed it stays that way.
Congrats (assuming it stays down). Keep us posted!
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