f/t or live

[snakeman100]

hi i have a ball 5 years old he eats live but i want to switch him is that posable ?????????????

[theapexgerman]

Yes it is just take away live and try F/T or maybe even fresh kill hell eat when he gets hungry and since he's that old it could be awhile I keep my snakes on live and fresh killed

[mattchibi]

Weigh your bp, if hes not underweight then it should be fine for you to try and convert him. Keep in mind, some ball pythons will never switch, but most will, in varying amounts of time.

I suggest trying pre-killed before you try frozen thawed, because it gets them used to being fed by tongs. I would do p/k for 4 or 5 feedings first, then try him on f/t. If you want though, you could also try feeding f/t once to see if he'll take it. Make sure the head of the rat is warmed up enough to 100 F, and make sure the body is properly thawed.

[theapexgerman]

Or just keep him on live he's been on it for years why switch

[KORBIN5895]

Or just keep him on live he's been on it for years why switch

For safety's sake.

[theapexgerman]

Nothing ever happne to any or my snakes when I feed live and I've been doing it for years sure its an risk better than starving the snake just to be safer

[Jay]

Here we go again... Kevin stop trying to convert its a lost cause. The only way people will learn is when they're trying to pry away a rat who has its teath imbedded into the snake.

[Trent]

Nothing ever happne to any or my snakes when I feed live and I've been doing it for years sure its an risk better than starving the snake just to be safer

The point is why risk..when you don't have to.

[theapexgerman]

Why starve the snake when you don't have to

[alessia55]

Why starve the snake when you don't have to

It's not starving. If it's not losing weight, it's fine.

[theapexgerman]

Not now but why skip feeding when you really don't have to up to the OP to decided

[Trent]

Why starve the snake when you don't have to

starve ????
As much as I would love to have a long winded conversation with you about feeding live.I think I will pass.
You seem to have it all covered and it makes total sense to risk a snake getting killed or losing an eye.

[Jay]

In reality you snakes are being over fed as it is.
I don't schedule feed my snakes at all.

[theapexgerman]

starve ????
As much as I would love to have a long winded conversation with you about feeding live.I think I will pass.
You seem to have it all covered and it makes total sense to risk a snake getting killed or losing an eye.
And I will still feed live till something happens nothing cvhanging my mind

[Valvaren]

I love how people say when something happens they will change. When you have kids I hope you don't adopt the same ideas with them wearing seat belts.

[theapexgerman]

I don't want kids to much trouble lol

[mykee]

As much as I HATE to agree with Apex, I have fed the non-F/T eaters in my collection live for many, many years and not once have I ever had an issue. It seems the ones who cry the story about snakes getting eaten alive by live rats are the ones who have never fed a live rat.
I speak from vast experience, you all do not.

[alessia55]

As much as I HATE to agree with Apex, I have fed the non-F/T eaters in my collection live for many, many years and not once have I ever had an issue. It seems the ones who cry the story about snakes getting eaten alive by live rats are the ones who have never fed a live rat.
I speak from vast experience, you all do not.

Yes Mykee, no one here is as experienced or as wise as you :rolleyes:

[theapexgerman]

As much as I HATE to agree with Apex, I have fed the non-F/T eaters in my collection live for many, many years and not once have I ever had an issue. It seems the ones who cry the story about snakes getting eaten alive by live rats are the ones who have never fed a live rat.
I speak from vast experience, you all do not.
Feeling is mutual

[Snakefood]

Yes Mykee, no one here is as experienced or as wise as you :rolleyes:

Alessia, didn't you know?? NO-ONE in the WORLD knows more than Mykee does!!;)

[theapexgerman]

Alessia, didn't you know?? NO-ONE in the WORLD knows more than Mykee does!!;)
.......................aaron s

[Snakefood]

naw!! he only jumps on board to agree with mykee!!

[theapexgerman]

naw!! he only jumps on board to agree with mykee!!
I like neither lol

[Snakefood]

I can't really say whether I like them or not as I have never met either, and people tend to go further on-line than in person. Either or both could be very nice, caring people in person.

What I can say is that in my opinion, they cross too many `social lines and show alot of disrespect and a lack of compassion, which I don`t personally agree with.

[theapexgerman]

I can't really say whether I like them or not as I have never met either, and people tend to go further on-line than in person. Either or both could be very nice, caring people in person.

What I can say is that in my opinion, they cross too many `social lines and show alot of disrespect and a lack of compassion, which I don`t personally agree with.
Nice and caring I don't think so but no one can't say they don't got any knowledge they know a lot of stuff

[mattchibi]

Lets deviate from the debating and arguing about this... The OP was simply asking if he could switch from live to f/t and probably wanted a method on how to do it, no need for a debate. Dont we all understand by now that both methods are completely, or should I say 99.9% safe, as long as done correctly? Ive seen this debate far too many times and its not like its ever resolved.. a pointless discussion imo if you already know the facts.

[theapexgerman]

Easy don't switch leave it as its always been fed and if he can't get live just do fresh killed or f/t and if now then keep trying

[Snakefood]

who`s arguing??, we`re conversing and sharing opinions!!

But you`re right, we should get back on track.

As much as I may not be as experienced with B/P`s as some here. I can say if you want him on F/T eventually, you will probably have to wait him out. As long as you can feel his spine but not his ribs he will not starve (I have been assured by trusted sources) by refusing what you are offering.

Sometimes an in between step would be fresh-killed (as in still twiching) first and when he`s eating those, then try F/T

[exwizard]

Please, lets not do this. Last thing I want to see is yet another heated exchange so provocation is not advised. Anyway, the whole live vs f/t...

The OP had asked what needs to be done to switch to f/t. I think a lot of patience is needed if this is going to be pulled off. Alessia has an awesome video on the "nom nom dance". Other people call it a zombie dance where after youve warmed up the dead rat, you take it by the tongs and perform a dance in front of the snake. Try this and it may not work the first time but if you are persistant, it will eventually happen.

As most of you know, I do feed live for reasons already stated in other (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/food-thought-forum/89345-live-feeding-entertainment.html) threads (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/python-regius/90209-frozen-vs-live.html) but in no way to I try to convince others that my way is better. I am aware of the risks and also have told people that the only ways to be 100% safe is f/k or f/t.

[alessia55]

Back to the OP's real question... There are a few methods:

Method #1: Stop offering live. At the next feeding, offer an f/t rat that has been heated up well, and use tongs to make it "dance" and appear alive. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. If he doesn't take it, wait another week and try again. You can keep this up for several weeks and eventually he'll be hungry enough to eat it. You can leave the f/t rat with him overnight by one of his hides, in case he decides to eat it overnight.

Method #2: Offer him a fresh-killed, or stunned rat first. This helps some ball pythons transition from live to f/t by having an intermediate "step" in the process. You can leave the fresh-killed rat with him overnight by one of his hides, in case he decides to eat it overnight. Make sure the rat is dead and will not pose any danger to your snake before you choose to leave it overnight in his enclosure.

My "nom-nom dance" video that exwizard mentions in the above post is a video I made about how to entice your ball python to eat an f/t rat:
JUWl9j3qbZI

Key things to remember: this process can be short and only take 2 or 3 tries, or it maybe be a really long process. Keep track of your snake's weight and don't give in. If you've offered f/t 3 weeks in a row and give up and offer live, the snake might catch on that if he ignores the f/t, eventually he'll get a live rat. You can keep up this fight for a while- so long as your snake isn't losing weight, and looks and acts healthy, you can keep offering f/k or f/t until he finally takes it. Some ball pythons will never make the switch, no matter what you try. So keep that in mind too.

[theapexgerman]

I've always feed live ever since I got my first snake long time ago instead of the OP stressing out just feed live less stress for him and his snake

[Snakefood]

I've always feed live ever since I got my first snake long time ago instead of the OP stressing out just feed live less stress for him and his snake

Except the OP stated a clear desire to switch the snake over. SO... if the snake will switch, then we are giving the OP ways of doing it.

[exwizard]

Except the OP stated a clear desire to switch the snake over. SO... if the snake will switch, then we are giving the OP ways of doing it.

^^^^agreed^^^^

[theapexgerman]

if an snake that old been feed live all its life its most likely isn't going to switch

[alessia55]

if an snake that old been feed live all its life its most likely isn't going to switch

This is NOT true. I know two people who switched their ball pythons over from live to f/t when the snakes were 10 and 11 yrs old.

[exwizard]

hi i have a ball 5 years old he eats live but i want to switch him is that posable ?????????????

if an snake that old been feed live all its life its most likely isn't going to switch

Im not saying that it definitely is not possible, I am saying if thats snakman100s desire to make that switch, its worth the effort. Other members are offering ways to do it and what to expect and that should be applauded because its sound advice.

Im sorry if that disappoints you Apex esp since I am a live feeder, but my objective here is to answer directly the questions asked with relevant answers and not turn this into a live vs f/t debate.

[alessia55]

OP, if you see this, check back on page 2 for some methods to switch your snake to eating f/t rats.

[theapexgerman]

All the advice is giving is really good but up to the OP and he's been giving the ways so now its up to him I'm still put my money on the snake won't eat F/T

[exwizard]

Im not denying the possibility but its still worth the effort if thats his desire.

[Squirtle]

I feed live to both of my snakes, but you must be there at ALL times. They will eat frozen thawed but to me, live is less of a hassle.

[CK SandBoas]

if an snake that old been feed live all its life its most likely isn't going to switch


That is definitely not true. All my snakes, other than the Kenyans i've had born under my care, were all exclusively live feeders when i acquired them, including my Royal. Maybe i was lucky, but all of them took f/t immediately as their first meal in my care. To me, if the OP wants to switch him over to F/T, than we as experienced keepers should offer him whatever advice and support we can to help him through the process of getting his snake switched over :)

[Gungirl]

Wow.. All I know is I am getting really tired of you Apex.. your way or no way. Between feeding live ,Dumerils Boa's and milk snakes you really have your head up your butt.. ffs.

OP, Try it for a few weeks and if you have no luck just let your snake eat live. I have seen some change over and others won't but it is worth a shot.

[mykee]

Lol, it was not my intention to start a debate about who knows what, I may have mispoken.
It's not that I know more than anyone, it's that I've had a LOT of experience with feeding live. I've easily fed 10,000 live rodents in my time in the hobby so I feel I can speak from experience on the topic.
It seems to me that most of the people who advocate NON live feeding (not to be confused with those who advocate f/t feeding) are those that are never fed live. These are the people who saw a picture of a video once of a half-eaten snake (same two pictures have been circulating for years; one ball and one boa) and have taken it into their mind that a snake should never eat live under any circumstances.
This is BS.
Then there are the meatheads like Apex who feed live because it gives them a chubby to watch animals die at their hands; (this type also tends to own a lot of guns and love hunting). These are the guys who feed live for themselves even though their snakes will happily take f/t or f/k.
Entirely different breed and one I'm not going to get into in this thread.

I have about a dozen snakes in my collection that currently eat live and that's the way it's going to be until they die (their choice, not mine).
I've tried the whole starving 'till they give in method (it doesn't work). Hell, I've pretty much tried it all the half-cocked old wives tales you've heard on here in my first few years.
The best method that I have found to work is this: feed a smaller than normal live rodent. When half the tail in down, offer a second, smaller than normal f/t rodent. If the snake takes the second item, do this for half dozen or so more feedings. Then try just the f/t rodent.
Works most of the time.

Edit: I forgot to add that HEAT is the key for getting anything to eat. I mean HOT, not warm or tepid; HOT. The hotter your food item, the better heat signature the item gives off and the more scent to food item gives off. Rinse your already thawed, warm rat under the hottest tap water you have got for 10-15 seconds. Get that sucker hot. Damp dry with a paper towel and serve very hot and almost dripping wet. BAM!!!

[KORBIN5895]

I can't really say whether I like them or not as I have never met either, and people tend to go further on-line than in person. Either or both could be very nice, caring people in person.

What I can say is that in my opinion, they cross too many `social lines and show alot of disrespect and a lack of compassion, which I don`t personally agree with.

I personally think they are great guys that get a kick out of people's reactions. They have both been patient, kind and help when I have asked questions.

Lets deviate from the debating and arguing about this... The OP was simply asking if he could switch from live to f/t and probably wanted a method on how to do it, no need for a debate. Dont we all understand by now that both methods are completely, or should I say 99.9% safe, as long as done correctly? Ive seen this debate far too many times and its not like its ever resolved.. a pointless discussion imo if you already know the facts.
Risking eye loss is never safe.

Easy don't switch leave it as its always been fed and if he can't get live just do fresh killed or f/t and if now then keep trying

If he can't get live how the heck is he supposed to get fresh killed.

if an snake that old been feed live all its life its most likely isn't going to switch

My royal ate live for six years and took frozen first try.


I feed live to both of my snakes, but you must be there at ALL times. They will eat frozen thawed but to me, live is less of a hassle.

How is it less of a hassle to go get live feeders from the store as opposed to getting a frozen from the freezer?

[theapexgerman]

Wow.. All I know is I am getting really tired of you Apex.. your way or no way. Between feeding live ,Dumerils Boa's and milk snakes you really have your head up your butt.. ffs.

OP, Try it for a few weeks and if you have no luck just let your snake eat live. I have seen some change over and others won't but it is worth a shot.
Lol then block me

[Snakefood]

Don`t get me wrong, if I had a snake who would not eat anything but live, I would feed live, standing there with set of tongs or something!!LOL

But I would try very hard to switch them over before deciding they won`t eat pre-killed, like the snake would have to be losing weight (I do keep accurate records of my snakes weight)

So far the only live-feeders I have gotten were corns, and they switched over first time pre-killed was offered.

[mykee]

I personally think they are great guys that get a kick out of people's reactions.

I can`t speak for Aaron, but I love how most members here haven`t just figured me out yet and haven`t yet learned to just take me with a grain of salt. I LOVE the reactions my posts get.

Back on topic now.

[mykee]

Apex; blocking people on any forum is both immature and counter-productive. Just because you disagree with someone's point of view is no reason to take your ball and bat and go home crying. Taking in everything people have to say whether you agree with it or not will widen your horizons and you'll gain more experience in this hobby. No idea is a bad idea if you learn from it.
Those that block members are doing only themselves a great disservice.

[theapexgerman]

Well kat getting tierd of me so make it easy for her cause I ain't going no were

[alessia55]

Apex you post on the from from your phone, right? Out of curiosity, does it have spell check?

[Gungirl]

Apex you post on the from from your phone, right? Out of curiosity, does it have spell check?

.........Forum.... lol

[theapexgerman]

Nope atleast I haven't found how to switch it on I either got txt slang or regular I don't understand the txt slang to well

[mykee]

"Apex you post on the from from your phone, right? Out of curiosity, does it have spell check? "

LOL!!!
"Forum" not "from"

Tsk tsk tsk!!!

[mykee]

Nope atleast I haven't found how to switch it on I either got txt slang or regular I don't understand the txt slang to well

... or English.

[theapexgerman]

Eh yea I do but I don't care its just an forum

[KORBIN5895]

I've always feed live ever since I got my first snake long time ago instead of the OP stressing out just feed live less stress for him and his snake

Three years isn't very long..........

[mykee]

I just realized that Apex blocked both Aaron and I. That means I can make fun of him on an open forum without him even knowing!!
Muawhahaha!!

[KORBIN5895]

Not if I quote you.

[Gungirl]

Lol, I have noticed that with a few people on here Mykee. I think they are missing out on some excellent advice by doing that. I don't understand blocking people, I would rather see what nonsense they have to say rather than miss the fun.

[theapexgerman]

I unblock both of you awhile ago learnt to just ignore you guys

[KORBIN5895]

Wow.. All I know is I am getting really tired of you Apex.. your way or no way. Between feeding live ,Dumerils Boa's and milk snakes you really have your head up your butt.. ffs.

OP, Try it for a few weeks and if you have no luck just let your snake eat live. I have seen some change over and others won't but it is worth a shot.

As far as his snake recommendations go it's like this: if someone only does it missionary style and claims it's the best way how can you take their opinion to heart?

[Jay]

[QUOTE=mykee;710376]
Then there are the meatheads like Apex who feed live because it gives them a chubby to watch animals die at their hands; (this type also tends to own a lot of guns and love hunting). These are the guys who feed live for themselves even though their snakes will happily take f/t or f/k.[/qoute]

X2

When I first acquired my jcp he came with 1 live rat. I put the rat into feed him and he stuck and coiled, the rats head was loose and he bit the top of my snakes head leaving a minor scar that was shedded away after a few months.
I didn't care for the squealing sounds and all that stuff. So next feeding I bought a fresh kill and he ate no problem.

To the op try a fresh killed rat in 2 weeks.

[mykee]

"Not if I quote you."
Don't be a tool Korbin, or I'll block you!
LOL!!!

[Gungirl]

As far as his snake recommendations go it's like this: if someone only does it missionary style and claims it's the best way how can you take their opinion to heart?

Lmao.........

[Skumbo]

Switch him slowly over to FT, balls are good eaters so he should pick it up, just be consistent about it. don't "go back to live" if he wont eat once or twice.

Use a hair dryer, it really "stinks" up the rat and gets them at live temp easily, my boa will eventually take F/T if i annoy her enough with it, usually after 5-6 tries, but as soon as i use a hair drier she practically bites me hand she lunges at em so quickly. same w/ my BMS, he only fed if i put the feeder and left it in there, but using a hair dryer he actually strikes at the food now.

[Gungirl]

[quote=mykee;710376]
Then there are the meatheads like Apex who feed live because it gives them a chubby to watch animals die at their hands; (this type also tends to own a lot of guns and love hunting). These are the guys who feed live for themselves even though their snakes will happily take f/t or f/k.[/qoute]


I have to disagree with part of this.. I hunt and own a lot of guns. I do so out of target shooting and hunting for food. I do not enjoy watching animals suffer but I would rather eat meat that has free roamed rather than been in a pen its entire life. I feel bad if the first shot isn't a kill shot... You can't group hunter/gun lovers all into that "bad" group.

[mykee]

"Use a hair dryer, it really "stinks" up the rat "
A hair dryer is a good start, but a hot wet rat is stinkier than just a hot rat.

[KORBIN5895]

Don't be a tool Korbin, or I'll block you!
LOL!!!

Soy como soy!

[mykee]

Tu como tool.
J/k, you've been invited into the Inner Sanctum.

[Gungirl]

lol you two are special..

[Jay]

[quote=mykee;710376]
Then there are the meatheads like Apex who feed live because it gives them a chubby to watch animals die at their hands; (this type also tends to own a lot of guns and love hunting). These are the guys who feed live for themselves even though their snakes will happily take f/t or f/k.[/qoute]


I have to disagree with part of this.. I hunt and own a lot of guns. I do so out of target shooting and hunting for food. I do not enjoy watching animals suffer but I would rather eat meat that has free roamed rather than been in a pen its entire life. I feel bad if the first shot isn't a kill shot... You can't group hunter/gun lovers all into that "bad" group.

That's why he said tends haha. I also own a fair amount of firearms and hunt. I'm not a fan of making animals suffer.

[Gungirl]

I know.. I just felt like I had to say something. I am a woman.. I like to get my word in. :p

[Snakefood]

A hair dryer is a good start, but a hot wet rat is stinkier than just a hot rat.

I tried that last week on my new boy....... no luck!!

Gonna try a fresh kill tomorrow and see how it goes.

[KORBIN5895]

Tu como tool.
J/k, you've been invited into the Inner Sanctum.

Oh boy! Are there cookies?

I tried that last week on my new boy....... no luck!!

Gonna try a fresh kill tomorrow and see how it goes.

I find braining works best when you use your teeth.

[mykee]

Only after the hazing.
Bring a single olive and a 3` X 3`block of ice...

[Aaron_S]

I can't really say whether I like them or not as I have never met either, and people tend to go further on-line than in person...

I'd just like to say I'd call anyone an idiot in person too and that they should refrain from keeping animals.

[Snakefood]

Sorry to hear you have such a character flaw

[Skumbo]

I'd just like to say I'd call anyone an idiot in person too and that they should refrain from keeping animals.

I feel the same way. I don't say anything online I wouldn't in person, then again I tend to be rather blunt with people if they screw up.

Sorry to hear you have such a character flaw

I think plenty of people in this thread have showed character flaws. I cant believe how quickly 6 pages of apex and others bitched back and forth about live feeding.

the OP asked a simple question. I'd be surprised if he sticks around or even listens to anyone now because of how immature everyone looks in this thread.

Apex - Check your ego at the door once in a while. You wont get anywhere in life being a stubborn bitch

Everyone else arguing w/ him: Don't feel the troll. You're at fault as much as he is.

Also in apex's defense, I believe English isn't his first language, I know I cant speak German as well as he speaks (maybe types?) English.

Alessia - thanks for actually replying to the OP.. after a few pages or so of people being stupid.

Thats all im saying, not checking this one anymore.

[theapexgerman]

I feel the same way. I don't say anything online I wouldn't in person, then again I tend to be rather blunt with people if they screw up.



I think plenty of people in this thread have showed character flaws. I cant believe how quickly 6 pages of apex and others bitched back and forth about live feeding.

the OP asked a simple question. I'd be surprised if he sticks around or even listens to anyone now because of how immature everyone looks in this thread.

Apex - Check your ego at the door once in a while. You wont get anywhere in life being a stubborn bitch

Everyone else arguing w/ him: Don't feel the troll. You're at fault as much as he is.

Also in apex's defense, I believe English isn't his first language, I know I cant speak German as well as he speaks (maybe types?) English.

Alessia - thanks for actually replying to the OP.. after a few pages or so of people being stupid.

Thats all im saying, not checking this one anymore.
English is my 2nd language would help if my phone had spell check and I get plenty far enough in life so I have an ego but if people don't like it than get over it

[KORBIN5895]

I just want to put this out there and clear something up. I don't know about you skumbo but personally I have no desire to feel Teddy.

[mattchibi]

Wayne, clean this thread up please

All I can say is everyone has their own preference, I dont see the need to force an opinion on someone else. I have said this before and I will say it again, Live and Frozen Thawed are BOTH safe options IF DONE CORRECTLY. I feed both because some of mine will not take f/t and I have yet to encounter any problems, nor do I anticipate any in the future because I make sure to do everything meticulously. Hopefully this bickering and giving of mis-information does not continue because it makes me not want to post here anymore...

Back on topic: Mike, thanks for the tip about feeding a live then f/t, never though of that.

[infernalis]

As much as I HATE to agree with Apex, I have fed the non-F/T eaters in my collection live for many, many years and not once have I ever had an issue. It seems the ones who cry the story about snakes getting eaten alive by live rats are the ones who have never fed a live rat.
I speak from vast experience, you all do not.

Here's the thing people..

Nearly all of the cases reported of the rat attacking and eating the snake are from STUPID non thinking twits who place a rat in the snakes cage and leave absolutely no food for the rat to eat and then walk away and leave it.

There is this super scary picture folks try to use to con others into believing that a rat/mouse will skin a BP alive quite quickly.

That is utter nonsense, if you look at that picture one can clearly tell that the rat fed off that snake for days before the owner finally decided to check on things.

[Aaron_S]

Here's the thing people..

Nearly all of the cases reported of the rat attacking and eating the snake are from STUPID non thinking twits who place a rat in the snakes cage and leave absolutely no food for the rat to eat and then walk away and leave it.

There is this super scary picture folks try to use to con others into believing that a rat/mouse will skin a BP alive quite quickly.

That is utter nonsense, if you look at that picture one can clearly tell that the rat fed off that snake for days before the owner finally decided to check on things.

Exactly. You can easily tell when a snake is interested in a food item and if they aren't. If they aren't within 10 - 20 minutes then take it out! Keep the rat for a few more days or kill it.

[KORBIN5895]

This is what happens when you feed live.

http://s14.postimage.org/jukcfaarx/ballchew2.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/jukcfaarx/)

[KORBIN5895]

Exactly. You can easily tell when a snake is interested in a food item and if they aren't. If they aren't within 10 - 20 minutes then take it out! Keep the rat for a few more days or kill it.

He can see it. Your signature that is.

[Aaron_S]

He can see it.

I'm ok with that.

[KORBIN5895]

I'm ok with that.

significate l'attrezzo anziché uno strumento

[infernalis]

This is what happens when you feed live.

http://s14.postimage.org/jukcfaarx/ballchew2.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/jukcfaarx/)


Yes, now look at the sheer quantity of flesh removed from that BP, the rat fed on it for DAYS..

That is not the result of one little "attack", that is a rat having 3 meals a day for quite some time.

[red ink]

Nothing wrong with live feeding "if" that's the only way the specimen will take it's prey and done properly....

Something wrong with live feeding if the person that owns the snake is just plain too lazy to even try and switch them over to FK or FT....

Live feeding then IMO is just for "kicks"..... I have no time for people in this hobby who are in it just for "kicks".

[KORBIN5895]

Yes, now look at the sheer quantity of flesh removed from that BP, the rat fed on it for DAYS..

That is not the result of one little "attack", that is a rat having 3 meals a day for quite some time.

No that happened in like less then three second when I dropped the the rat in. I never thought it could happen to me.

[Aaron_S]

No that happened in like less then three second when I dropped the the rat in. I never thought it could happen to me.

Dude, you should be selling those rats to hollywood. Make bank on that kind of crazy mutants!

[mattchibi]

Here is an interesting thread I read a few weeks back. Proper supervision is key. This is not an anecdote to scare people away from live feeding, just what could happen if you dont supervise. But if done correctly, there really is zero risk. Please read the description of what happened before you jump in and say "See? It could take out your ball pythons eye in a matter of seconds!"

Before you scroll down and view the picture please read my story first. Now before I begin explaining the horror that has happened to me, let me tell you how I feed my snakes. I pick up the rats usually in the evenings, which means the snakes are in hunt mode, I go home and just drop them in. All of my snakes are great eaters, if they haven't struck in the first 5 minutes it's because they don't want to eat. So when I feed I hang around until everyone has swallowed their food and move w.e has been eaten to a hold bin for a few days and try again.

Well last night was feeding day, I went out grabbed my feeders, came home and placed the rats in the snake tub. Everyone except my male Pastel Lesser & Mocha had eaten. I figured he didn't eat because he's in breeding mode and I figured she didn't eat because I think she's gravid. So I grabbed her rat in gave it to one of my normals. I couldn't do the same for him because my only other snake thaat could eat a rat that large was still swallowing her current prey. So I waited...

Then all of a sudden an emergency came up where I had to rush over to my grandmother (she lives in the same house). About 2 hours later, everything was said and done and I go back to my room. I lay down in bed and hear some noise coming from the rack. I jump out of bed, turn the lights on and see a rat in the corner of the Pastel Lesser's tub still alive. So I went to get him out and place him another tub, when I saw the horror! In just a few short hours, he chewed my Pastel Lesser like if he hadn't eaten in days and was desperate for food. You have no idea how sick to my stomach I got when I saw the damage. Mind you this was just in a couple of hours, I can't imagine what would have happened if I had let him stay for a few more hours.

I NEVER leave rats in my tubs with the snakes, NEVER! I've seen what can be done, but unfortunately an emergency popped up and this one rat slipped my mind. As of now, I cleaned out his tub, put him on paper towel and showered him with hydrogen peroxide. I'm letting it dry so I can apply an ointment like Neosporin on it. I don't know what to do. The tip of his tail is so chewed up that I don't know if it will stick back together or if he will just end up losing it.

First things first, I have to make sure all the wounds scab so the wounds close. From there I'll just continue treating him until the scabs are gone and the wounds are closed. This puts a huge stop in my breeding plans as he is my only male breeder, but his health comes first. Poor little guy...

For those of you who feed live, this is a perfect example as to why you should monitor feeding at all costs. This happened in just a few hours, imagine what could have happened if I would have left him over night or a full day.

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae140/that_dc5/Snakes/2.jpg

Just as a side note, the OP figured out quickly that betadine was better than hydrogen peroxide.

[infernalis]

Here is some variables to consider.

Not everyone is completely forthright in their stories.

Not all rat suppliers are created equal, in other words if this did in fact happen in just a couple hours as described, then chances are that the person/place that the rats came from had not fed the rats in a while.

I breed my own rats, and I used to sell quite a few to a pet shop down the road, until one day I stopped in and there were several rats feeding off the carcass of another rat.

I was infuriated, I asked what the hell happened, and the owner of the pet store blamed an emplyee who "forgot to top off the food dishes"

Needless to say, I refuse to sell any rats to them now.

Even though my rats are bred as feeders, I take care of them like pets, they live damn good until that fateful moment.

Heck, I am guilty of spoiling my rats, they get pampered better than most people's hamsters do.

Now back to the "story" I used to know a young lady (yeah she visited in person a couple times) who spun a yarn about how she killed a whole litter of baby snakes by "taking a phone call"

She cried and cried about how it was only a couple minutes on the forums, but I know teenage girls too well, weather it was her BFF or her BF, she took a phone call that had to have lasted over an hour and then when she got her mind back on to the snakes, it was too late, they were cooked and very dead.

The point I am trying to make is this, people will exaggerate the truth on a forum to make things look "not so bad" for them.

[Skumbo]

Nothing wrong with live feeding "if" that's the only way the specimen will take it's prey and done properly....

Something wrong with live feeding if the person that owns the snake is just plain too lazy to even try and switch them over to FK or FT....

Live feeding then IMO is just for "kicks"..... I have no time for people in this hobby who are in it just for "kicks".

/thread? :P

[mykee]

I think a lot of you are ignoring a very important part of feeding live; the temperment of the feeder.
I breed all my own live stuff for those that prefer live food and with that in mind, my breeder collection is as tame as can be. I can reach into bins and pick up adults, adolescents and even take babies from mom without being bit.
As I mentioned, having fed over 10,000 live rats over my career without a single incident, I must be doing something right.
The key is to have stressfree, healthy, happy rodents.

[Snakefood]

my feeders are the same, the adults are very friendly (I have been bitten by a weaner being separated)

All my snakes (so far) eat killed food, I hope I am lucky enough not to have to feed live. I am not really worried about the mouse/rat eating the snake like in Korbins pic, but I don`t want to have to deal with even a bite wound or scratch if I can aviod it.

[jarich]

I think thats all well and good Mykee about your rats being nice to you. They have no reason not to be. However, the same can not be said of their interaction with the snake. And I can believe that post above happened in a few hours. It doesnt look like that snake had much actual flesh taken out of it, or that necessarily the rat did that for the sake of food. You put a rat in with a big snake and the rat is going to know it has to defend itself or die. Your talking about a cornered animal that is protecting its life. It will defend itself with what it has...large teeth and claws.

Ive never had a problem with any of my live feeders either in the years Ive kept snakes. Ive also never gone through the window of my car on those rare occasions when I didnt have my seatbelt on. But the point is the same, why take the risk? All it takes is one scratch across an eye, or as the above post shows one emergency where you forgot, and you have all the reason in the world to make the switch. I generally try to switch my snakes to fresh killed, not because I think they cant handle a live one, but because its generally easy to do and takes away ALL risk. There is no risk from feeding fresh killed. ZERO. There is some risk from feeding live; though admittedly its small, there is still some risk. So if its not hard to do, why is this still an argument?

[shaunyboy]

if a hungry snake strikes and gets say the body or back end of a live rat,then.....

there is a risk of the snake being bitten by the rat trying to escape the snake

imo,no one supervising the feed,would be quick enough to stop the above,should it occur

the snake strikes,catches the wrong part of the rat,rat bites snake,all in under a second,not even bruce lee was quick enough to stop that :yes:

i have no moral issues with live feeding,if all a snake will take is live,then so be it

i'd rather have the peace of mind that comes with,fresh killed or frozen thawed

cheers shaun

[exwizard]

First off, Im not here trying to convert anyone else into a different way of feeding their snakes. After all, its their snakes, not mine. We have rodent customers who prefer f/t and as a result we vacuum seal and freeze their rodents for them no extra charge. I understand all the arguments on both sides so I really dont want to debate the fact that I feed live. In this case, Im in agreement with Mykee. We breed our own feeders and one of the keys to safer feeding is having pet tame rodents. However there is still risk and I am aware of that but weve chosen to feed live for reasons discussed in other threads and I wont get into them here. I fully respect other peoples choices to feed either f/t or f/k. As I said before, its a personal choice of what to do with your own pets because nobody has a say over what happens to your pets more than you. All other people can do is advise but its still up to the owner to take that advice or not.