View Full Version : Cornsnake RI
Shmoges
03-24-12, 06:13 PM
So I am pretty convinced our snow corn has an RI. This has to be the first time I have heard of someone on ssnakess having a corn with an RI, YAY me!! She is making sneezing noises once and a while and will open her mouth from time to time. Her forks on her tongue are still apart though. It seems like more of a minor discomfort for her than she is in pain or sick as can be but I don't want it to get to that point so I started her on oral meds that I had in the frig and upped the temp and changed her substrate to cypress so its more humid in there. Is that the right thing to do? Up the humidity for corns?
I will offer her food still since I have recently decided she is to fat for weekly food like the rest of the snakes (this will be week two of biggest loser for snakes).
So weird that all our corns are in 20l's with uth's and the room temp has to be over 65-70. I run a humidifier on and off in that room and they have water dishes 24-7
theapexgerman
03-24-12, 06:14 PM
With RI I know you bump the temps up but dont know bout the humidity
Dude, you've had some terrible luck ( though with how often animals get ill and/or die in your collection, it's not luck) with pretty much any animal that has the unfortunate future of finding its way into your collection. Seriously, and I say this in the nicest possible way, maybe it's time for you ( and for the safety of any future animals that you may own) to truly pack it in and find a new hobby.
Preferrably one without living creatures.
Just a suggestion.
Bradyloach
03-24-12, 06:29 PM
Dude, you've had some terrible luck ( though with how often animals get ill and/or die in your collection, it's not luck) with pretty much any animal that has the unfortunate future of finding its way into your collection. Seriously, and I say this in the nicest possible way, maybe it's time for you ( and for the safety of any future animals that you may own) to truly pack it in and find a new hobby.
Preferrably one without living creatures.
Just a suggestion.
That's incredibly rude.
Shmoges
03-24-12, 06:31 PM
And thank you mykee for your thoughtful words of wisdom!!!!
Maybe your right, who wants to have snake barbeque??
"That's incredibly rude. "
But unfortunately, incredibly true.
Shmoges
03-24-12, 06:36 PM
Honestly who gets an RI with a cornsnake??? L2 husbandry for me.... I thought they liked living in the frig!?
It's VERY difficult to give a cornsnake an RI.
You've had RI's with your hognose, kenyans and now your cornsnakes? Am I missing anything?
Seriously consider the fact that snakes are just not your thing.
Shmoges
03-24-12, 06:56 PM
Mykee you and I know that I will never be the amazing snake owner that you are but even so I do my best and learn as I go. I agree something is up with all these RI's that I get but what am I doing wrong? Dryness was possibly the key with the Kenyans all the info I read and was told in person said they should be kept dry and offered water in a dish... they all died. The hognose is eating and well now, the corn we will see about. I don't keep anything in the frig and you know I use thermostates. I disagree with you mykee snakes are my thing and I am begining to think this isn't the mykee nerf bat of sarcastism but the narcisistic wtfowned hammer. Don't be the mykee everyone knows, show us that you don't always prey on the blood and failure of others.
My issue is this; all along your learning curve, you're leaving dead animals.
I am all about the animals, and if I happen to offend you in the process that is not my intention, but from your history, snakes that end up in your care die.
Think of the animals and not your ego. All of your animals get sick. In less than a year you've had three species with RIs; one of which all died.
Lets put this into perspective shall we? I've been keeping ball pythons for 13 years. I've owned thousands of ball pythons in that time and hatched over a thousand as well. I have had one RI in one animal (that came in on a shipment) . No other sick animals ever. That's ever.
Put your ego aside and do what is smart.
Snakes are not your thing.
As for your collection, I have absolutely no idea what your issue is, but with the sheer number of animals that you have had sick and die in the last year you've definitely got something BAD in your collection. I would think a virus of some kind, but one that jumps species?! Unheard of. My honest opinion as to what you should do is to cull your entire collection and start again in a years time to allow whatever nasty you have in your collection to die off.
Shmoges
03-24-12, 07:36 PM
For anyone reading this, this is an example of a defeatist and all they wish for the human race is for it to give up and fade away so they can bask in there own radiance. Don't listen or even consider these kind of people to be your equal in anything except taxes and death.
PS. Didn't know I had an ego. Guess we have something in common then Mykee.
Gungirl
03-24-12, 07:49 PM
I think Mykee has a good point.. Maybe something is jumping through your collection. When any of the other snakes passed away did you ever have a Necropsy done to see if it was something that would affect your other snakes? If not then you have no idea what could be affecting your snakes. Maybe its is a cleaner you use or something chemical in the house affecting them. Idk what to say but I would think it has to be something and not just a random occurrence.
Aaron_S
03-24-12, 07:57 PM
I think Mykee is correct here. There has to be something in your collection.
It's happened with multiple snakes and the common denomination is YOU! Leads to one conclusion at this time...
I see you just started giving this corn meds you had in your fridge. WTF?! You don't get a culture done to ensure that the meds you own will have ANY effect on the actual bacteria/virus and not just destroy the organs of your snake?
Please, get a culture done if you think she's got an RI.
Shmoges
03-24-12, 08:11 PM
hexachloride? if I put it in there water and sprayed them in the face maybe. I have not had a necropsy done and probably can't since I have froze the bodies (before I knew that destroyed the test results). I do not plan on getting anymore snakes so as far as dooming further animals to death that won't happen. I'm not burning incense to the snake gods, I spot clean change water feed regularly I wear gloves and use disinfectant when cleaning (with the snake not being in the vicinity). Obviously the next step is to get rid of my snakes right?? Honestly come to my house and see my collection and tell me whats wrong. Ask me specific questions and tell me whats wrong. Generalizing and assuming wont solve anything.
I think looking at were my animals have come from I am surprised I haven't had more problems (craigslist, local shoddy pet store for cheap because they didn't want them). Some have been from breeders that can't be trusted 100% either. Perhaps I have a case of the legless death, regardless non of it helps my snow corn who as stated is being medicated and has adjusted husbandry and I am awaiting relevant answers for.
If anyone wants to start a post titled why Shmoges should go away because he sucks to continue this discussion feel free.
Shmoges
03-24-12, 08:14 PM
Ok good information, I had no idea that I should get a culture so that I can know if the enrofloxacin will have any affect. I will do that next week, thank you for the help.
exwizard
03-24-12, 08:17 PM
What to do. One other time I got pulled into a heated discussion was because I was defending someone else but I will take that chance again. It is not helpful advice or constructive criticism to insult people by telling them that theyre bad for their snakes and to cull their collection and start over or to just get out of snakes altogether. This is just "Im better than you" arrogance just for the purpose of making themselves feel good by condemning someone else when theyre down. Its this attitude that makes people even hesitant to share with others whats been happening. Now I fully expect that this onslaught will be directed at me so when it happens I wont be surprised nor do I care because this arrogance is just hollow no matter what level of experience has been acheived. At least Kat is looking at some possible causes and solutions which is all that Shmoges is really looking for when he opens himself up to this type of condemnation. Sorry to jump in like this when its not my fight but this same thing has happened before and it really needs to stop.
theapexgerman
03-24-12, 08:19 PM
I agree with the dum lord as far as an RI wouldn't an trip to vet with the snake be more helpful
what exactly is your process of cleaning? Is it possible there is some reside being left on? What do you use to clean cages/water bowls?
Gungirl
03-24-12, 08:24 PM
I simply stated what Mykee brought up...
I would never medicate a snake prior to figuring out what I was medicating. Giving meds for what might be an RI could kill a snake that has something else wrong with it. I hope you can get to a vet sooner than next week and for now I would stop medicating a guessed issue.
Instead of trying to defend your (lack of real) action, use that energy to determine what YOU are doing wrong, because the amount of illness and death in your collection means one thing; you are doing something wrong and your collection is sick and/or dying.
This is not coincidence.
Like Aaron said; YOU are the common bond with all this illness and death.
You've had these isues for over a year and have done nothing in that time to erradicate it.
Chances are there is nothing you can do short of culling and starting over in the future.
This is now beyond your knowledge, skillset and abilities.
The fact that you self-medicate pretty much says it all...
You clearly aren't taking these deaths very seriously, adding new animals to an infected collection; bad idea and you've been doing it since day one.
Smarten up; get your animals to a vet, necropsy the ones that die and stop adding new ones.
KORBIN5895
03-24-12, 08:36 PM
Hey Shmoges, do you quarantine? I know you have added two or three new snakes since I joined. Just wondering if you are bringing it in with new arrivals. How far are you from bb?
Bradyloach
03-24-12, 08:43 PM
Honestly dude, don't quit your passion because some people say so. Like come on now. He likes snakes obviously! He's doing something wrong? Maybe. But he's comming here. No one EVER should be told to drop there hobby. He's coming here for help so instead of saying the problem is you! We should reach out and help. Really myke? You may be a good keeper, but reach out to the ones who aren't and help them. Let's just try and find the problem. Never stop because someone say so.
Mykee, you have a few good points. He needs to get his corn to the vet and figure out what the heck is wrong with his collection, but you have NO business telling him to cull his collection and start over in a year or to tell him snakes aren't for him and to get out of the hobby. He came here for help, so if that's all you have to say then shut up.
P.S. sorry Wayne, I had to tell him off. If he keeps on, I'll let you take care of it.
Aaron_S
03-25-12, 12:12 AM
How about all you "feel good" people go shut up yourselves? You bring nothing to the table and I mean NOTHING. You give less advice most times and post for the sake of posting more often then not! There's no point in combating with me on the internet except for my explicit entertainment.
Advice has been given. It's blunt. The truth. If you don't like it, don't read my,Mykee's or Kat's responses. We all stated he needs to check himself and his husbandry and certainly stop randomly medicating his animals! I agree that he needs to take a look at how he's doing it, maybe he's stressed out over all this and DOES need a month, 6 months or a year without reptiles to figure it all out.
We can't however, give any more advice because apparently all basic husbandry is correct or so we're told.
Smoges, I understand the "get what you pay for" mentality when purchasing things but animals is not one you should necessarily cheap out on. Snakes in general are pretty hardy so I don't see how all of the ones you've had trouble with came with the problems you've stated so I still believe it's something to do with you and your home. Move them out of your home for a period of time and see how it goes, how about that? You don't give them up permanently and you can see if it's maybe something in your home that causes it but doesn't cause issues in humans.
totheend
03-25-12, 12:24 AM
Shmoges, I like Aaron_S idea of moving the snakes out. Something is going on there at your house. It is not normal for that many animals to get sick like that. I don't even think that it is a husbandry thing.......
Do you use any kind of air fresheners (plug ins, air sprays, oils, candles)? That is the only thing I can think of besides cleaners and you say that is not an option.
Good luck, I wish that corn the best.
KORBIN5895
03-25-12, 04:53 AM
First off you shut up Aaron!!!!! ;) ( let's turn this into one huge blow up argument and pissing match! )
Secondly I think totheend hot the nail on the head! Shmoges can correct me if I am wrong but I remember in a thread where Wayne said he didn't allow aerosol sprays in his home and certain other smelly things. If memory serves me right Shmoges made a comment about using some form of air fresh spray or plug in the reptile room.
Thirdly shut up monkey face! ( Not sure who that is directed at but anyone feel free to reply.)
Finally he really may have some nasty virus or something and needs to separate all of his snakes for several months and go through quarantine . Maybe that will help keep whatever it is from spreading.
Gungirl
03-25-12, 07:33 AM
Ok Dumber... If he does have something chances are it has already gotten to all of his snakes and only this one is showing signs of it right now. If this is the case then he needs to stop getting animals and giving them a death sentence. Once he has no sick animals for at least a year fine but until then I see more and more threads like this in his future and I feel bad for the animals. After 1 or 2 snakes die you really need to look more at why and how. You can't blame it on where you got the snake if you got them all from different situations. It sounds like someone needs a reality check. A lot of people get snakes off of craigslist or other places that we can not trust but if you quarantine properly and take care of the animals you wont have an issue. He has obviously not done this....
First off, quarantining a collection infected with some type of virus is useless. Viruses act differently from bacteria; 1. they never go away. They only go dormant while still being contagious. Animals with viruses end up dead, not sick. 2. Viruses are very contagious, whether it be airborn, or not, the normal quarantine procedures practiced by non-laboratory, non-medical personnel is basically for naught.
I would imagine that Smoges collection is infected and therefore needs to be culled. Viruses can also live on non-porous objects for up to a year which is why I mentioned a year without reptiles before starting over.
Gungirl
03-25-12, 09:25 AM
Thanks for that info Mykee.. I was unaware of that.
Didn't someone just get one of Shmoges snakes on a breeding loan???!!! Oh man.. this could be really bad.
Below is a heartbreaking story posted at Fauna about a girl (Jen Harrison) who got a ball python with a retrovirus from a breeder in Texas. It's a long read but definitely one that all of you (especially Smoges) should be aware of.
The similarities between Jens timelines and deaths and Smoges are eery. And scary.
A synopsis of the full story below:
For those that don't know what happened -- Respiratory Virus in Ball Pythons - FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220629)
The full story back when it happened:
TW International Wyatt in Texas - FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105621&highlight=damion+wyatt)
Thanks Kat...
Gungirl
03-25-12, 09:37 AM
I think you forgot the link Mykee...
Aaron_S
03-25-12, 11:47 AM
Mykee, are you suggesting that Shmoges may have this devastating disease in his collection?
I'd be sure to look into that Shmoges! You could be infect others collections if you're not careful!
exwizard
03-25-12, 12:59 PM
Shmoges, I really am sorry you have to be subjected to this type of abuse from some of the other members here. The discouragement and defeatism thats going on here is both amazing and overwhelming. I for one do not think that youre dealing with some nasty mysterious virus. Idk if youre even reading this thread anymore because of all this abuse but if you are, youre not alone so dont be discouraged. I havent lost faith in you and I know you are trying to do your best in dealing with this and all you asked for was help and all you got was condemnation. Well this condemnation is not from everyone, just a select few. Two in particular who most of the posts they do are of this nature. Anyway, like I suggested last night, take your Snow to a vet, find the problem and if it is an RI, mention amigaicin and see what he says and based on that go with his suggestions.
theapexgerman
03-25-12, 01:01 PM
Could it not even be an RI it could be something else cause an corn shouldn't get an RI. That's why he needs to go to the vet
Gungirl
03-25-12, 01:03 PM
That was a very informative read. Thank you for sharing that Mykee...
Exwizard... Mykee and Aaron are offering reasonable and good information and advice. All anyone can do for Shmoges here is "guess" what is going on and why it is happening. Shmoges has lost a few snakes already and there has to be a reason beyond the normal unless he is not caring for his snakes like he states he is. No one wants to be told they need to cull all of their snakes but in all honesty if his collection does have some random virus then that is what NEEDS to be done.
Or he can continue to listen to all the feelgooders on here (whom all in my opinion have their head up their a$$e$, who all seem to offer no real advice aside from poo pooing on those who do), ignore the real problem like he's been doing, continuing to add new, healthy animals, and continue to watch his animals get sick and die.
Pretty irresponsible, selfish and downright immoral if you ask me.
Gungirl
03-25-12, 01:29 PM
I have a fear that is what is going to happen.. :(
KORBIN5895
03-25-12, 01:35 PM
Or he can continue to listen to all the feelgooders on here (whom all in my opinion have their head up their a$$e$, who all seem to offer no real advice aside from poo pooing on those who do), ignore the real problem like he's been doing, continuing to add new, healthy animals, and continue to watch his animals get sick and die.
Pretty irresponsible, selfish and downright immoral if you ask me.
I poo poo on YOU Mykee!!!!
Bel5191
03-25-12, 01:49 PM
Anyone who is a responsible and intelligent human being is capable of learning proper husbandry of an animal (maybe with the exception of hots) IMHO. The only way anyone can learn is through good advice/teaching and experience, although hopefully not at the cost of an animal's life. Telling someone to just give up and that they are a terrible pet owner isn't the right way to go.
Gungirl
03-25-12, 01:52 PM
Anyone who is a responsible and intelligent human being is capable of learning proper husbandry of an animal (maybe with the exception of hots) IMHO. The only way anyone can learn is through good advice/teaching and experience, although hopefully not at the cost of an animal's life. Telling someone to just give up and that they are a terrible pet owner isn't the right way to go.
You need to go back and read other threads where some of his snakes have died before you can make a judgement call on this one. You don't know the history of his dead snakes...
exwizard
03-25-12, 01:54 PM
Exwizard... Mykee and Aaron are offering reasonable and good information and advice.
Kill all his snakes and get out of the hobby is not reasonable advice.
All anyone can do for Shmoges here is "guess" what is going on and why it is happening.
Thats exactly whats happening here is a series of guesses without any real facts. Its easy to throw wild accusations and in the end Shmoges gets alienated and unjustly so.
No one wants to be told they need to cull all of their snakes but in all honesty if his collection does have some random virus then that is what NEEDS to be done.
I think its funny that in the same breath by the same people accusations are being thrown around the HE is killing his snakes. Its not feelgoodism to offer constructive advice without resorting to judgement, condemnation and holier than thou arrogance. The word "blunt" has been used and frankly thats an understatement and an excuse for this arrogance. Bottom line is that there is a better wqay to offer advice than to condemn and attack but thats just my opinion and I know that that differs from 2 other people's opinions but thats ok because I expect that from them.
CDN_Blood
03-25-12, 02:05 PM
What's the point in offering advice to a repeat offender who doesn't seem to care enough to learn a single thing from his mistakes? In my opinion, this is the biggest lost cause that this forum has to offer.
Well said Todd!
I`ve said my piece, now I`ll just sit back and watch all the new threads by the OP come up that additional animals in his collection are sick and dying.
Glad this guy lives nowhere near me so that his infected collection stays the hell away from my clean collection.
exwizard
03-25-12, 04:12 PM
I see the dogpile and further abuse continues. Im sorry to see this and am very disappointed in us because of it. :(
Aaron_S
03-25-12, 04:45 PM
I see the dogpile and further abuse continues. Im sorry to see this and am very disappointed in us because of it. :(
What did I say about feel gooders? Why are you still at the table? Shoo! Shoo! Let the big people talk now :)
Shmoges, I know it's really hard to see what we're trying to say but think about it. Give the fauna links a read. It's valuable stuff to know for anyone owning reptiles not just in your case either. I believe you need to set your place up as a contamination zone if you aren't going to be culling the animals. Nothing in or out (except to a vet).
exwizard
03-25-12, 04:47 PM
Hes not even listening to you and neither am I. Youre only a legend in your own mind. So funny how arrogance blinds you. I just dont like the way he was ganged up on. Thats why Im still here.
Gungirl
03-25-12, 04:50 PM
Exwizard.. You seem to hate everything that has been thrown out on the table so where is your solution to the issue at hand?
Just whining about what people are saying does nothing... If you don't like what others feel is right then what do you think is?
exwizard
03-25-12, 05:02 PM
Exwizard.. You seem to hate everything that has been thrown out on the table so where is your solution to the issue at hand?
Just whining about what people are saying does nothing... If you don't like what others feel is right then what do you think is? Since you ask the question I will answer this point by point. First of all its not a matter of hate. What I dont like is what you guys call bluntness and truth, I call arrogance and condemnation. There is a way to give advice without condemning the guy for asking for help. Hes been given advice to go see a vet and that is what his intention is. ASAP. However when you in the same breath accuse him of killing his snakes, then tell him to go kill his snakes. I find that to be insane. I dont believe hes a lost cause as some of you do. Yeah hes made mistakes. We all do and those of us who say we dont just confirm the perceived arrogance.
I still think the best advice that he needs is for him find a vet that he trusts and to take that Snow to him/her and see what has to be said about it and then follow that vets advice. Thats in his best interest to do so since they will be at the same location and see this snake for themselves. All I ask is that Shmoges is not alienated and that the advice that is given him is something he can use without being condemned for even bringing up the problem here to begin with.
theapexgerman
03-25-12, 05:15 PM
you could always just block aaron and mykee it what I did lol works good
1. Not taking your animal to the vet.
2. freezing your dead instead of getting a necropsy done.
3. Self-medicating.
Here are three examples of the OP doing absolutely NOTHING to better his collections situation. IMO, his collection is too far-gone to be saved. I believe whatever is in his collection has infected everything.
I also feel that the few people on here who have ZERO experience but a HUGE MOUTH are doing nothing to better this situation.
Keep talking, almost nobody is listening to your treehugging, nicey touchy feely posts.
This collection is beyond that.
KORBIN5895
03-25-12, 05:56 PM
@Shmoges
How many snakes do you have, how long , when was the first symptoms notice, when was the first death, how many have been ill and how many have died? I dwell these are all pertinent questions that could give you, us and your vet some actual insight into what's happening. Also have you ever brought in a sick snake and do you quarantine?
@Teddy
Listen to you say how you just block Aaron and mykee is getting old. Maybe it's time for our death match.
exwizard
03-25-12, 06:39 PM
1. Not taking your animal to the vet.
2. freezing your dead instead of getting a necropsy done.
3. Self-medicating.
Here are three examples of the OP doing absolutely NOTHING to better his collections situation. IMO, his collection is too far-gone to be saved. I believe whatever is in his collection has infected everything.
I also feel that the few people on here who have ZERO experience but a HUGE MOUTH are doing nothing to better this situation.
Keep talking, almost nobody is listening to your treehugging, nicey touchy feely posts.
This collection is beyond that. And nobody is listening to your condemning arrogance either. So blind to yourself, such a shame.
Aaron_S
03-25-12, 06:41 PM
This is terrible everyone needs to grow up. He's putting money and time into his hobby. Even heart as you can see. Just back off and let him keep his snakes in peace, like telling him to get rid of them is discusting and you should all be ashamed. Hes trying, it could just be a little problem but a big affect let's help him. Come on, stop being all negative your glasses are all half empty
So your opinion is that he should just keep killing his animals? You're an A+ kind of person! I'd like to live in your gumdrop and rainbow world where everything is ok with just trying.
Aaron_S
03-25-12, 06:43 PM
And nobody is listening to your condemning arrogance either. So blind to yourself, such a shame.
I'm pretty sure Caylan's quoted post of Mykee from YEARS ago in a previous thread says you're the one that's blind. People read and take it for what it's worth. Sometimes if the person is big enough they'll see the advice, other times, when it's people like you, you'll just see what you want to see and keep your blinders on that we're "wrong".
exwizard
03-25-12, 06:45 PM
So your opinion is that he should just keep killing his animals? You're an A+ kind of person! I'd like to live in your gumdrop and rainbow world where everything is ok with just trying.
However when you in the same breath accuse him of killing his snakes, then tell him to go kill his snakes. I find that to be insane.
Ok maybe you missed this so it should be stated again so you get it.
However when you in the same breath accuse him of killing his snakes, then tell him to go kill his snakes. I find that to be insane.
Aaron_S
03-25-12, 06:45 PM
@Teddy
Listen to you say how you just block Aaron and mykee is getting old. Maybe it's time for our death match.
Kevin, just ignore the children. Pat them on the head and continue talking with the adults.
Aaron_S
03-25-12, 06:47 PM
Ok maybe you missed this si it should be stated again so you get it.
I don't think YOU get it.
Without testing, and if he continues to not test his snakes, he might as well just cull them all now. Who knows what may be in his collection! Did you read the fauna threads? He could be infecting collections if he has a breeder loan out or sells any!
theapexgerman
03-25-12, 06:51 PM
@Shmoges
How many snakes do you have, how long , when was the first symptoms notice, when was the first death, how many have been ill and how many have died? I dwell these are all pertinent questions that could give you, us and your vet some actual insight into what's happening. Also have you ever brought in a sick snake and do you quarantine?
@Teddy
Listen to you say how you just block Aaron and mykee is getting old. Maybe it's time for our death match.
Lol I'm kinda glad I did why fight with them over the internet
Wow, this thread went sideways fast!
So what else besides the sand boas has Shmooges lost/had sick? I remember him saying he had the problems with those particular animals, but I seem to have missed whatever else it is that means he should pack it in. It does seem possible that he has some sort of common cause now, if the symptoms are similar to those he saw in the KSB.
Funny thing is Kevin's response seemed the best. He asked questions that might actually nail down the source of the RI and might even...oh I don't know...help! RI isn't just one disease though, there are many causes for similar symptoms. So are you seeing similar symptoms as you did in the KSBs before? With all this nonsense its hard to know if there are any similarities or not. What things are similar between the two habitats? Could you have a bad source of substrate? Have you changed cleaning products? Are there any chemical sources in your animal room that could be the cause? Does that particular room have a draft/rapid heat loss? Corns are pretty hearty animals, so Im not sure that culling seems appropriate, though finding the cause and fixing it is obvious.
Since you have quite a few animals, Im guessing that they aren't just in a single room. Were the KSBs and your corn in the same room?
I have to admit, the whole 'blunt' argument seems a little old to me. Social conventions keep us from tearing each other apart in public; there is a very good reason they have evolved. Seems like the same rules would apply in a forum, but I guess they don't. Usually people aren't so 'blunt' in public because it may likely earn them a punch in the nose, or worse, however that is never a threat in a forum. As such, I suppose it will always continue, and likely yield the same lackluster results. You set the stage for people's reaction by how to talk to them. Here, Ill give you an example...
To be 'blunt', Mykee, your knowledge of viruses is embarrassing. I was going to try to correct all the nonsense you posted a few pages back but then I thought Id just tell you to go do a bit of what's called 'reading'. I promise it'll help you be more helpful to people in the future. Cause thats what you were trying to do right? ;)
I spot clean change water feed regularly I wear gloves and use disinfectant when cleaning (with the snake not being in the vicinity).
Like I asked already...what is being used to disinfect???
infernalis
03-26-12, 11:08 AM
OK, I am looking at this whole thing from both sides of the fence... as a Mod I have to.
Virus's are nothing more than DNA strands with a protein skin, they are impervious to antibiotics and as we have learned from Aids research, very resilient little monsters.
So if Smodges is looking at a viral condition, as only a culture can reveal, all the medicine in the world is not going to "cure" the situation.
Over cleaning is just as deadly as anything else, a healthy snake that is in it's correct environment can overcome some unreal situations just fine, many people underestimate the immunity / healing systems in place with reptiles. I have seen with my own eyes wild snakes that have been run over with lawn mowers heal and survive on their own.
One such snake was missing half of it's face, the animal healed and carried on with it's life, all the while doing this on dirt, under rocks and living among insects.. So getting real here, hitting your enclosures with bleach, disinfectants and chemicals constantly is more likely to disrupt the reptiles natural rhythm of survival as much as an infection will.
I'm all for politeness, but sugar coating facts distorts them.
Corn snakes for instance do not need a humidifier, this will promote mold growth and mold spores in the lungs IS a form of RI.
Hell, any properly supported reptile will not need a humidifier, My BP for instance or my Savannah Monitors (both require elevated humidity) do not have any humidifiers or vaporizers in use, because they are properly supported.
Shmodges, if you read this, could you kindly (Please) post pictures of your setups, give temperature and humidity reading from each enclosure, and maybe with this information we can come to an accurate conclusion as to what is going on in your collection.
To the OP, I hope you sort out your collection and it eventually just boils down to you having terribly husbandry; that can be corrected.
This thread has gotten out of hand and I no longer wish to participate.
Have at it.
Shmoges
03-27-12, 10:25 PM
Been gone for awhile, Haven't read any comments but thought everyone deserved an update. Turns out it was stuck shed on her nose. I must have missed her opaque phase of shedding when I usually put a moist hide in for most snakes so they have an easier shed. After posting the RI thread she had a terrible broken up shed and I soaked her to get the rest off. Its been about a day and she isn't sneezing anymore.
PS. she never had mucus or bubbles
exwizard
03-28-12, 01:36 AM
Welcome back bud. :)
Yea, welcome back. I'm glad it turned out to just be a shed.
Shmoges
03-29-12, 06:36 PM
Like I asked already...what is being used to disinfect???
Hexachorodine (sp) in a spray bottle diluted in water that is specifically used on water dishes that are dirty and then rinsed. I will also use it to totally clean an enclosure in the bath tub and also rinse it.
Its never sprayed in an enclosure with bedding or a snake!!!!
Shmoges
03-29-12, 07:08 PM
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/NewBitmapImage.jpg
Here is a crappy idea of my snake rooms, scale is terrible and depth is a problem (sue me :D) 7 8 9 are on the floor under 5 4 3.
the dry rack is under the sink in teh bathroom and has ambient colorado humidity 10-15% and houses the rosies and the hognoses. The rosies get water for a couple days once a week the hognoses get water in a dish 24-7 all use aspen bedding.
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0016.jpg
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0018.jpg
The other room to the right of the dry rack has a door to it and is open slightly but the humidity is much higher 40% ambient on and off, I fill the humidifier a couple times a week.
Shmoges
03-29-12, 07:12 PM
lol I just realized I don't have a number 6 oh well I suck :D tanks 1 2 3 normally house corns but one has a lucy rat in it atm. 4 5 have the gophers. 7 is the rack under 4 that has two corn babies and two king babies, 8 has the rainbow boa, and 9 has the female lucy rat.
1
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0022.jpg
2
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0023.jpg
3
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0024.jpg
4
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0025.jpg
5
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0026.jpg
7
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0029.jpg
8
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0028.jpg
notice the moist hides in 1 and 2 I use those for snakes in shed or opaque only except for the longicuada and the rainbow who get them 24-7. 1 has a heat emitter above it but it is not in use fyi all tanks except the female lucy and the longicuada use UTH's.
Shmoges
03-29-12, 07:13 PM
9
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0027.jpg
longicuada
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0021.jpg
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/ENCLOSURES/IMG_0020.jpg
Hexachorodine (sp) in a spray bottle diluted in water that is specifically used on water dishes that are dirty and then rinsed. I will also use it to totally clean an enclosure in the bath tub and also rinse it.
I would just switch to white vinegar and water. Personally I don't trust any type of chemical no matter how well diluted. White vinegar is a safe all natural cleaner.
Shmoges
03-29-12, 07:27 PM
Its rinsed, its no danger.
SimplySerepents
04-05-12, 08:14 PM
I'm jumping in at the end here, but I have had several rescue snakes that had RIs. Corns can and will get RIs if they are kept in damp and dirty conditions.
You can use any cleaner as long as you rinse and air it out completely, and hexechorodine is a safe veterinary disinfectant. I use vinegar on anything that won't be rinsed- but on things such as water dishes and anything with fecal matter or blood, I use ammonia then rinse well, then air out overnight.
Ammonia is the only thing that has a chance at killing crypto.
I have not seen a lot of success with meds for RIs- usually the meds hurt the digestive systems of the snake so severely (killing the gut flora off) that the snake takes longer to heal.
If you just remedy the husbandry situation, give probiotics (a little on their food) and soak them in a dilution of betadine or novalsan and water a couple times a week, they clear up on their own without any extenuating circumstances (i.e. parasites) The one animal I medicated ended up dying... All the other rescues are thriving.
So, don't just give your snakes meds unless there is no other option (an advanced RI or something else that a vet tells you won't clear up without meds).
I've read the account linked above about the collection all dying. Crypto is similar in corns... It is incurable and can be devastating. This is why Quarentine is so important.
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