View Full Version : S.I.M. incubation.
Gregg M
03-23-12, 06:33 PM
Hello everyone. Just wanted to give you all a quick rundown of SIM incubation. I will be posting how it works, what the benefits are, some of the successes with the product, and some photos. Hopefully it will answer some questions. If you have any additional question or have any comments, please feel free to post them up on this thread.
Firstly, lets start with the word S.I.M.
S.I.M. stands for Suspension Incubation Method. This is in relation to how the eggs are incubated on a grid off the substrate. This prohibits direct contact with a wet substrate.
Why is this important?
Because most reptile eggs can not handle wet conditions. Eggs incubated buried in dampened substrate are subjected to excess water which often results in drowned eggs. Also in contrast to this, too little water or humidity results in egg desiccation.
Another perk to using S.I.M. is it allows approximately 100% gas exchange between the container environment and the egg membrane.
Why is this important and what does it do?
When eggs are buried they coverd with dirt or your choice of incubation medium. This can create an environment with restrcted oxygen and will keep carbon dioxide in close proximity to the eggs. This slows developement of the embryo and the carbondioxide can cause reptiles to hatch early before they have had the chance to absorb their "yolk sack".
The higher concentration of oxygen and lower levels of carbon dioxide you get when using S.I.M. incubation allows the embryo to develope faster and hatchlings actually absorb the contents of the yolk sack before emerging from the egg. The better developemnt also yields stronger, more robust hatchlings.
Is the S.I.M. container a miracle egg box that will hatch everything put into it? No, your eggs need to be fertile. LOL. However, you chances of success can increase with fertile eggs with the S.I.M. only because it take away a lot of human error.
There have been some major successes with the use of this container. Some very hard to hatch eggs have been incubated easily in these container with great hatch rates. For example, Chuckwallas are notorious for have very poor hatch rates in captivity. The average clutch will only yield a 30% to 40% hatch rate. A zoo that uses our product has gotten 100% hatch rates in this species.
Here are some photos. Please enjoy.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4770555521_3de5b7bb96.jpg
Lace Monitor Photo by Croc Doc
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4888492569_57dcc088e4.jpg
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4150/5025834097_259bc2676c_z.jpg
Hognose snakes
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/4293623815_18ffef58da.jpg
Fat tail geckos Photo by JMG Reptiles
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4198228529_9637b2aba3.jpg
Albino Carpet Pythons
http://www.squamataconcepts.com/images/uploads/IMG_1763.JPG
Ball Pythons
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4199007800_03603c1710.jpg
Leopard Geckos
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4083/5063165498_6241efbb13_z.jpg
Varanus Tristis
Bradyloach
03-23-12, 06:39 PM
Wow that is sweet. Umm if I decide to breed one day ill deffintly contact you!:)
theapexgerman
03-23-12, 06:49 PM
Wow I would like more info on the S.I.M. incubation I may start breeding next year
infernalis
03-23-12, 07:20 PM
You can all bet, if I get Sav eggs, they will be places in a SIMs
Gregg M
03-23-12, 07:22 PM
Feel free to ask any and all questions you may have.
Also, a big thanks to Wayne for giving me the go ahead to post this.
theapexgerman
03-23-12, 07:24 PM
Greg is there like an website I can go to that will give the genral info hate for you have to explain everything lol
infernalis
03-23-12, 07:38 PM
Greg is there like an website I can go to that will give the genral info hate for you have to explain everything lol
it's in his user title...
Squamata Concepts, LLC. (http://www.squamataconcepts.com/)
But I prefer we keep it on the thread, so everyone can learn from this.
theapexgerman
03-23-12, 07:42 PM
it's in his user title...
Squamata Concepts, LLC. (http://www.squamataconcepts.com/)
But I prefer we keep it on the thread, so everyone can learn from this.
Oh lol didn't know that but I just want the basic and do a little reasearch myself
Gregg M
03-23-12, 07:51 PM
Oh lol didn't know that but I just want the basic and do a little reasearch myself
The reason I posted this was to offer as much information as possible. Trust me, this is my passion, I love explaining this stuff and answering questions. LOL
theapexgerman
03-23-12, 07:52 PM
Learn something new lol
lady_bug87
03-23-12, 08:56 PM
awesome I saw those and will definitely be picking up a couple when I see my pair lock up. I just lost a clutch of fertile eggs and I will be damned if I lose another one.
What do you place under the grid?
Gregg M
03-24-12, 07:09 AM
What do you place under the grid?
You can use whatever you like. Many people use perlite, vermiculite, and some even use just water. I personally prefer to use ground up celulose sponge material. We will be offering it this season as part of our product line. It seems to stay cleaner and works great for me and others who use it.
BarelyBreathing
03-24-12, 10:42 AM
I used plain water on mine. Is there a problem with this?
Been using that method for years, hatched hundreds if not thousands of ball python eggs that way. Works like a charm.
Gregg M
03-24-12, 03:21 PM
I used plain water on mine. Is there a problem with this?
No problem with that. The only reason I do not use just water is because it can slosh around and splash the eggs if you are not careful. With a saturated substrate you do not need to worry about that issue.
BarelyBreathing
03-24-12, 03:33 PM
Makes sense.
Just curious OP, by the wording in your original post, it seems that maybe you think you developed this method all by yourself and you're taking credit for it as well as taking this time to share it wtih the world.
Is that just how I read your post or is that not the case?
Gregg M
03-24-12, 07:50 PM
Just curious OP, by the wording in your original post, it seems that maybe you think you developed this method all by yourself and you're taking credit for it as well as taking this time to share it wtih the world.
Is that just how I read your post or is that not the case?
Where in my post did I ever try to take credit for anything other than designing and producing an awesome reptile incubation product?
I am not taking credit for the method. However, what my partner John Adragna and I can take credit for is the fact that we improved on the method, designed a great looking product that does exactly what it says it does and being the very first to produce and market a ready made no substrate incubation box made spacifically for reptiles. We also have a US patent and we coined the term "S.I.M. incubation". Something else you may want to consider is the fact that the actual science behing why this method works so well was never looked into as deeply as it has been since this product came out. The amount of compiled data from only This method was also used very infrequently before our product launched in 2009. It was only used by certain breeders for certain species. Now it is being used by many breeders for just about every species.
lady_bug87
03-24-12, 08:27 PM
Awesome thanks for the info, I think my local herp supply store carries some of those types of boxes and I will surely be getting one.
What do you use as a heating element? I had my incubator kill all my eggs so we're looking for new ways to incubate
KORBIN5895
03-24-12, 08:42 PM
Wow I would like more info on the S.I.M. incubation I may start breeding next year
What do you plan on breeding?
infernalis
03-24-12, 08:44 PM
Isn't that worldwide as well Gregg?
I think I have seen breeders overseas using your product.
theapexgerman
03-24-12, 08:46 PM
What do you plan on breeding?
Next year my male albino nelson to an t-postive albino female nelson the reptile store I've been going to for years want sell her so he agree he let me breed her hoping to get an t-postive for my self lol
KORBIN5895
03-24-12, 08:48 PM
Don't you need two t+?
theapexgerman
03-24-12, 08:50 PM
Not really would have better odds of getting more T+ babies tho
Ok, understood.
So your original post was just an infomercial for your new product.
How does this differ from the light diffuser grating that myself and other ball breeders have been using for well over a decade now?
lady_bug87
03-24-12, 09:19 PM
^^ How does light diffuser grating work?
^^ How does light diffuser grating work?
It's the same thing, just not as expensive.
You can buy a nice 4x2' sheet from most hardware stores for under $20. I place it directly on the saturated substrate.
Gregg M
03-24-12, 10:01 PM
Ok, understood.
So your original post was just an infomercial for your new product.
How does this differ from the light diffuser grating that myself and other ball breeders have been using for well over a decade now?
The product has been out for 4 seasons. Also, as Wayne pointed out, it is indeed a world wide product. We have distibuters in Canada, Europe, Australia, Asia, Africa, and here in the US. It is also being used by Zoos world wide and has been used in some very important captive breeding programs.
How does it differ from a light diffuser? A few ways.
The most obvious, it looks much more professional. It is cleaner and neater looking. The body and lid are also see through. No need to open lids to check on eggs.
The next difference is the fully adjustable rail system that keeps eggs in place. Eggs will not roll around or move even if the incubator is bumped into or if the container shifts.
The holes in the grid are only 5mm. This means that hatchling of even some of the smallest species can not get down into the substrate. This is especially imortant for those who use just water or for people who just dont want to dig around the container for hatchlings.
The grid is also actually suspended over the substrate. This eliminates the wicking effect that happens with light diffuser.
Another difference is, it is ready to use. No mods needed, no cutting plastic. Add substrate, adjust rails to the size of the eggs and its ready to go in your incubator.
It is also made of high quality plastics. The main body is made of polycarbonate that is 2mm thick and the lid is made of TPU that is also 2mm thick. It is a super strong product made to last you your entire breeding career. The thickness in the material and the material itself also helps to retain heat. So when the incubator is open even for several minutes, the temperature inside the container does not drop.
We also make the product in high quality polypropylene as well.
I would say it is a nice improvement over the light diffuser in both looks and function.
Here is our S.I.M. XL for ball/blood/carpet pythons and larger reptile eggs.
http://www.squamataconcepts.com/images/uploads/BigSim3.jpg
http://www.squamataconcepts.com/images/uploads/BigSim2.jpg
And this is our standard S.I.M.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7132/7012949507_d443a44cfc.jpg
A lot nicer looking than a Glad container and light diffuser, dont you think?
Photos by our Australian distributer Precision Reptile Gear | The Next Step in Herpetoculture! (http://precisionreptilegear.com/)
theapexgerman
03-24-12, 10:19 PM
So for milk snake eggs would the standard S.I.M would it be the right size?
Gregg M
03-24-12, 10:23 PM
So for milk snake eggs would the standard S.I.M would it be the right size?
Yes. The standard S.I.M. will fit a full clutch of milk snake eggs with no problem.
theapexgerman
03-24-12, 10:26 PM
Cool looks a lot better than others ones I've seen on the internet for sure
Gregg M
03-25-12, 11:31 AM
Mykee,
Just wondering. What is with the underhanded, bordering on insulting posts in this thread? Is there some kind of problem or issue you are trying to address? An ax to grind? Whats up?
5starserpents
03-27-12, 12:32 AM
I have HEARD, and this is only what I've heard...that small colubrids can get through the grate, I'm not sure what to think of this however...I would think only the twins that we have hatched may get through something only 5mm, but have you heard of many incidents of this? And do you have a list of distributors in Alberta, Canada by chance? I only know of one and was wondering if there are others as the one I know of always seems to be out of stock
KORBIN5895
03-27-12, 07:14 AM
5mm is less than one fifth of an inch! That is extremely small. A pencil is 7mm wide and wouldn't fit down those holes. So any baby snake narrower than a pencil could possibly fit.
Gregg, not at all, I just find it funny that you're trying to re-invent the wheel with a product that already exists albeit in a less aesthetically pleasing cousin.
I'm sure your sales will be greater with the first time breeder, but the long-term hobbyist and professional breeders (I can only speak on ball pythons) take a certain amount of pride in their ability to take an everyday item such as light diffuser and a Rubbermiad or Sterilite bin and re-imagine it into something that can properly incubate eggs with a 100% success rate.
I'm sure your sales are acceptable, but I'm sure most of us "in the know" will stick to the old Rubbermaid and light diffuser method at less than one fifth the cost and 100% effectiveness.
Just trying to look after my peeps here and let them know that you can have the same effect as your product with two everyday products at a fraction of the cost.
This hobby is expensive enough...
lady_bug87
03-27-12, 10:02 AM
^^ in saying that mykee, could I just lets say get an appropriate sized container and then affix some sort of screen to it, add a heat source and presto?
and mykee how do you heat your incubators?
Assuming you have a smaller species of snake, regular old window screen would work as well, assuming you attach it to a frame of sorts that elevates it out of the medium (if thats the method you prefer).
What I use is plain old light diffuser ($12 for a 2' X 4' sheet at Home Depot), that yields 16 bins worth of grating. I use shoebox Rubbermaids at $2.49 a pop (Zellers, Canadian Tire, Wal-Mart, etc.) and for less than $4.00 (less the cost of Perlite and Vermiculite) you have a perfectly useable egg box. I've used this method for over a decade now and have as close to a 100% hatch rate as you can get when you've hatched over 1500 snakes.
As for my incubators, there's my link below. Keep in mind that you can go ahead and purchase a professional incubator to go with your SIM egg boxes, at a cost of $1500 and up, but I made mine for less than $400. I have four identical ones.
Incubator (http://www.strictlyballs.ca/incubator.htm)
lady_bug87
03-27-12, 10:14 AM
I had a reptibator but killed the last batch of eggs I had.
The eggs I would be incubating are small lacerta eggs, Nothing else I own is a breeder. The lacertas breed at will since they live together year-round (they're colonial)
Thanks for the link!
millertime89
03-27-12, 01:50 PM
Rest assured, if I decide to go ahead with my breeding plans this fall I'll be ordering some SIMs.
Gregg M
03-27-12, 05:16 PM
I have HEARD, and this is only what I've heard...that small colubrids can get through the grate, I'm not sure what to think of this however...I would think only the twins that we have hatched may get through something only 5mm, but have you heard of many incidents of this? And do you have a list of distributors in Alberta, Canada by chance? I only know of one and was wondering if there are others as the one I know of always seems to be out of stock
We have hatched some of the smallest colubrids you can think of and none have gotten through the grid. I have not heard of this happening neither.
We have only one Canadian distributer. They sell out very quickly.
5mm is less than one fifth of an inch! That is extremely small. A pencil is 7mm wide and wouldn't fit down those holes. So any baby snake narrower than a pencil could possibly fit.
As mentioned, to my knowledge, it has not happened. Someone hatched ringnecks and did not report them going through the grid.
Gregg, not at all, I just find it funny that you're trying to re-invent the wheel with a product that already exists albeit in a less aesthetically pleasing cousin.
I'm sure your sales will be greater with the first time breeder, but the long-term hobbyist and professional breeders (I can only speak on ball pythons) take a certain amount of pride in their ability to take an everyday item such as light diffuser and a Rubbermiad or Sterilite bin and re-imagine it into something that can properly incubate eggs with a 100% success rate.
I'm sure your sales are acceptable, but I'm sure most of us "in the know" will stick to the old Rubbermaid and light diffuser method at less than one fifth the cost and 100% effectiveness.
Just trying to look after my peeps here and let them know that you can have the same effect as your product with two everyday products at a fraction of the cost.
This hobby is expensive enough...
All I can say is that you have shown your true colors with this post Mykee. If you choose not to use the product, that is fine. I am not forcing anyone to buy it. But do not try to down play it. It is more than just a better looking version of what you use. It is a huge improvement over what you use both in looks and function.
Do not try to cover up you motives for your insulting posts by presenting yourself as the peoples champ. You are not looking out for your "peeps" (what are we, 12?) when you intentionally try to hurt someones sales. You also seem to portray yourself as some kind of elite breeder. You breed a beginner species dude. Get off your high horse.
Maybe people should buy cheap hets instead of buying your visual morphs Mykee. People can produce their own visuals for a faction of the cost.
theapexgerman
03-27-12, 05:20 PM
Greg your on your game today lol
Doesn't this entire thread belong in the classifieds section, seeing as hows it's just an ad for a product started by the manufacturer of said product?
infernalis
03-27-12, 07:03 PM
Not really, can't have discussions in the classifieds.
theapexgerman
03-27-12, 07:04 PM
I think this is supose to be an Q&A and information thread
Gregg M
03-27-12, 08:00 PM
Doesn't this entire thread belong in the classifieds section, seeing as hows it's just an ad for a product started by the manufacturer of said product?
Why are you so bent over this? Why try so hard to dicredit me and this product? Why would like to see this post taken from the INCUBATION section of this site? Really, why so bitter?
I am not a manufacturer. I am an active member on this and other forums. Heck, I have been a member here since 2003. I have a long history here. Long before our product ever came out. When I first came on here, I was showing photos of 3rd generation gaboon vipers and F2 gaboon/rhino viper crosses I produced. Is that not around the same time you started breeding balls?
My partner and I are just like you and everyone else here. Regular Joes with a passion for reptiles. We are not part of a big name product company that sells junk reptile products that are barely worth the material they are made of. We are hobby breeders who care for our reptiles and our hobby on the whole.
This thread was started as a Q&A, not so the likes of you can rip it up. If you do not have a question about this type of incubation, please, by all means, see your way out of the conversation. You have been nothing but insulting and it is uncalled for.
Like I said, if you do not like the product, that is fine. No one is telling you you have to buy it.
Next time you post a photo of a hatchling ball python you produced, post it in the classifieds?
BarelyBreathing
03-27-12, 08:08 PM
Gregg, do you still have any gaboons?
Gregg M
03-27-12, 08:18 PM
Gregg, do you still have any gaboons?
I do, but not in my home anymore. They are maintained in a separate facility. I have a 7 year old daughter. Venomous snakes and a child in the household, not a good mix. LOL.
If you ever get the chance, try to get a copy of the Oct 2006 hot issue of reptiles mag. I wrote a pretty sweet article on their captive husbandry.
Aaron_S
03-27-12, 09:00 PM
Gregg,
You mention a patent on your product. What does the patent actually cover?
Also you said you "coined" the term 'SIM incubation". Do you mean copyright? Or just "coined" it?
BarelyBreathing
03-27-12, 09:49 PM
Good call. Would you mind posting some pictures in another thread? I love gaboons (but would never, ever keep them).
Gregg M
03-27-12, 10:10 PM
Gregg,
You mention a patent on your product. What does the patent actually cover?
Also you said you "coined" the term 'SIM incubation". Do you mean copyright? Or just "coined" it?
Hi Aaron,
If you must know what is covered in the patent, you can look up US patent # 7966973. I refuse to clutter this thread with unimportant information. The only ones who would be worried about that info are those who want to copy the product without infringment. The way it is worded keeps us well protected.
When I said coined the term, I mean we were the ones who called it the suspension incubation method S.I.M. for short. It is also copyrighted. Do we care if people use the term? Not at all. It is just so no one can use the term to sell a product that is not the actual SIM container.
5starserpents
03-28-12, 12:34 AM
Gregg,
Would you possibly be so kind as to PM me the info for the distributor in Canada please? I have a friend who does sell them but since you said there is only one distributor in Canada I'm beginning to wonder if he is actually the distributor or if he buys them from the distributor and re-sells them. If that is the case I may have better chances of getting them from the actual distributor if he isn't it.
Thanks!
KORBIN5895
03-28-12, 06:55 AM
I think mykee and Aaron should change their member titles to Ace and Gary.;) If anyone gets that they deserve a cookie.
Aaron_S
03-28-12, 06:57 AM
Hi Aaron,
If you must know what is covered in the patent, you can look up US patent # 7966973. I refuse to clutter this thread with unimportant information. The only ones who would be worried about that info are those who want to copy the product without infringment. The way it is worded keeps us well protected.
When I said coined the term, I mean we were the ones who called it the suspension incubation method S.I.M. for short. It is also copyrighted. Do we care if people use the term? Not at all. It is just so no one can use the term to sell a product that is not the actual SIM container.
I'm sorry Gregg but knowing what the actual patent covers IS important since as Mykee pointed out MANY people use a very VERY similar method. Meaning I don't want you, or your partners (if you have any) coming after me if you just want to because I use basically the same thing.
I also don't see how this is cluttering the thread with unimportant information? I'm not starting any arguements so please don't turn it into one but all I did was ask a question and I honestly don't know how to look up patents with just a number.
lady_bug87
03-28-12, 07:08 AM
Gregg I hope I did not offend you, My husband and I are merely looking for new ways to incubate since I had such a horrible season last year
do you have a website or a distribution list you could send me? I am interested in getting all the information I can so I can make well.. an informed decision. Since I am not a large scale breeder just my one pair
Korbin, that's a low blow.
AND there's nothing ambiguous about our love for one another either...
KORBIN5895
03-28-12, 11:48 AM
Korbin, that's a low blow.
AND there's nothing ambiguous about our love for one another either...
BWAHAHAHAHA! Wicked awesome mykee! Someone get that man a cookie! Dang it he deserves two.
Low blow! Hahaha!
infernalis
03-28-12, 12:43 PM
I think mykee and Aaron should change their member titles to Ace and Gary.;) If anyone gets that they deserve a cookie.
Awe come on, nothing ambiguous here.. edit, Damn Mykee beat me to it.
Skinky!
Gregg M
03-28-12, 04:52 PM
I'm sorry Gregg but knowing what the actual patent covers IS important since as Mykee pointed out MANY people use a very VERY similar method. Meaning I don't want you, or your partners (if you have any) coming after me if you just want to because I use basically the same thing.
Aaron, unless you produce or manufacture a home made SIM for the intent to sell and distribute it here in the US, you have nothing to worry about. LOL. The Patent was to protect our invention, not to keep people from making their own. That is not how a patent works.
Gregg I hope I did not offend you, My husband and I are merely looking for new ways to incubate since I had such a horrible season last year
do you have a website or a distribution list you could send me? I am interested in getting all the information I can so I can make well.. an informed decision. Since I am not a large scale breeder just my one pair
None taken at all. You should be doing all you can to research all the methods you can to better your chances of success. Gather all the info you can on incubation techniques and choose for yourself which suits you best.
I will PM you a link to our Canadian distributer.
Korbin, that's a low blow.
AND there's nothing ambiguous about our love for one another either...
There is no shortage of low blows in this thread especially from your end. If you can dish it out, certainly you can take it as well?
I can certainly take it.
Refer to above posts, Sparky.
Aaron_S
03-28-12, 05:33 PM
Aaron, unless you produce or manufacture a home made SIM for the intent to sell and distribute it here in the US, you have nothing to worry about. LOL. The Patent was to protect our invention, not to keep people from making their own. That is not how a patent works...
Fantastic. I'll be right on top of producing one and distributing in Canada then.
Gregg M
03-28-12, 05:52 PM
Fantastic. I'll be right on top of producing one and distributing in Canada then.
Thats quite flattering. I can give you whatever details you need like prices for molds and plastics. Just PM me.
5starserpents
03-29-12, 09:05 PM
Gregg could you please PM me with the info to the Canadian distributor as well :)
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.