View Full Version : Worries
So, I've been lurking a bit. My ball refuses to eat more than once every three weeks or so. She's in a better enclosure now, with a better heat source (under-tank heater, rubbermaid container with holes drilled into it, paper towels as substrate, fresh water). Humidity is consistent and the temperature is low-mid 80s.
I am concerned that she doesn't eat often.She isn't growing very fast (I got her last fall, she's at *least* eight months old) as a result. Note: I know this is controversial, but I did this as a worried snake mom. I know she should be eating more, and this is my last resort.Paper bag method didn't work. So, I tried assist-feeding her. I attempted this a few months ago, and that didn't work either. Her last shed was not good (a few soaks and damp towel rubs helped things along).
Now, I'm prepared to stop attempting this, because it hasn't worked. I feel like I'm coming to my wits end with this particular snake, as I can't seem to do right by her. Please, can I get encouragement and support? I need to regain her "trust" as the assist-feeds always seem very stressful for snakes, either for my own or for the ones I've seen on youtube.
I enjoy snakes so much, and she's my first real snake (my last one only stayed with me for a few months before getting passed on to another owner).
alessia55
03-21-12, 12:37 PM
How much does she weigh?
What have you been offering her? Mice? Rats? F/t? Live? In the enclosure or outside of it?
You mentioned bad sheds- what's the humidity % in her enclosure?
Temps should be 87ish on the hot side (you mentioned mid/low 80s, so bump that up).
You mentioned she has paper and water dish in the enclosure. Does she have two hides?
If she's eating every 3 weeks, there is no need to assist feed. This is VERY stressful, especially for young snakes, and isn't necessary unless the snake is young or very, very thin. In my honest opinion, don't assist feed anymore. Keep offering food every 10 days and keep good records of her eating pattern. It would help if you could give us the current weight of your snake too.
Lankyrob
03-21-12, 01:17 PM
I feed my BP on a 2week then 3 week basis so i would say if it only eats every three weeks then nothing is wrong, definitely dont assist feed anymore.
I have hot end temps at 91f, and with a bad shed you can pretty much guarantee humidity is not high enough. I keep mine as 55% minimum and 65% minimum when he is in blue/shedding.
jaleely
03-21-12, 01:30 PM
what alessia said *nod nod*
Why you would assist feed a feeding ball python is beyond me!
Just because it's not eating as often as you like, isn't reason to assist feed.
You've likely stressed this animal out so much that you will most definitely have issues for some time to come.
If it eats once every three weeks, then it eats every three weeks.
DON'T ASSIST FEED ANYMORE!!!
Now, to your solution;
Number one reason why a ball python won't eat consistently: bad husbandry.
Get her environment suitable so that she'll WANT to eat again. If she had a bad shed, you're not providing proper husbandry.
Fix your husbandry issues, chances are this animal will again begin to eat on it's own.
mattchibi
03-21-12, 01:59 PM
Pictures would help.
Assist feeding should be a LAST RESORT. If you have tried everything that people have said above (live, pk, f/t, mice, rats, asf's, braining, pre-scenting, leaving it in the tub in the dark, etc), then please watch this video before you try again. But really, you shouldnt have to assist feed if its already eating on its own. Just keep offering every 7 days and your snake will get the idea soon enough.
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Gungirl
03-21-12, 04:36 PM
I have to say I don't think you should EVER force feed a Royal. Double check everything about your set up and wait them out. Offer food once every 10-14 days and eventually it will eat. Don't handle the snake at all until it is eating.
As long as your snake isn't underweight or dehydrated looking, I wouldn't worry too much. Feed her as many times as she will eat and you can slowly try moving the time periods between each feeding to be shorter and shorter. As everyone said, don't force feed as it causes way too much stress on a snake. Also be sure to raise the humidity in the tank, bad sheds can result to a snake not eating properly or refusing food.
I agree that this isn't working and is stressing her out, so yeah. I will not be doing it any more (scout's honor). She has been in this new cage for over a week now, and the humidity has been higher and consistent over all. Temperature has been higher, feels warm to my hands, and when I feel her she has good belly warmth and activity. I'm not trusting the stupid little humidity and temp gauge I have right now, as they're the stick-on ones from petco. I am moneyless (not food-less) 'til next week, so I'll have to work on this sort of system until I can get proper equip.
I've also noticed that the large mice do not smell very good, and I've wondered about their freshness causing any problems. They haven't thawed since I bought them, but it's an odd thing--she'll snap up the ones that don't smell bad at all.
Gungirl
03-21-12, 05:32 PM
Don't bother offering food until you know the temps and humidity 100%. Go get yourself a temp gun you will be thankful later on. Search around you can find them from $10-$200 and more. They work amazing!
I'll pick up a new heat mat, perhaps with the temp gun, along with the humidity gauge? Amazon has good prices, and I know these heat mats need an eye kept on them.
Gungirl
03-21-12, 06:03 PM
Don't get a dial humidity gauge get a digital one instead. They are 99% more accurate.
How much does she weigh?
What have you been offering her? Mice? Rats? F/t? Live? In the enclosure or outside of it?
You mentioned bad sheds- what's the humidity % in her enclosure?
Temps should be 87ish on the hot side (you mentioned mid/low 80s, so bump that up).
You mentioned she has paper and water dish in the enclosure. Does she have two hides?
If she's eating every 3 weeks, there is no need to assist feed. This is VERY stressful, especially for young snakes, and isn't necessary unless the snake is young or very, very thin. In my honest opinion, don't assist feed anymore. Keep offering food every 10 days and keep good records of her eating pattern. It would help if you could give us the current weight of your snake too.
I need to purchase a scale in order to give her weight, so that may be some time. She hides under the paper towels (granted, I have seen rack systems employ this method and you may disagree, but that's how I've based my idea that she didn't need a hide as much while in this smaller enclosure)--she's too big for her current hide and the other hide seems a bit large.
Edit: I don't mean to sound grumpy, I'm just stating what I've tried to make as decent observations while working under my constraints and still having a decent snake-owning experience while I still go through these learning stages.
Gungirl: Amazon.com: Quality Importers HygroSet II Round Digital Hygrometer for Humidors: Home & Kitchen (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H6CZQE/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?ie=UTF8&m=A1ZOHHDMQN8XA3) is the one I'm thinking of, and for cheap it can be calibrated!
Hey everyone, I wanted to thank you all for your valuable input. My girl ate tonight. I think I'm going to attempt feeding again in two weeks at night, and if she doesn't eat, I'll wait until it looks like she's looking for food.
Alessia, she has one hide right now, and that will have to be what works, unfortunately, until I can get her a better enclosure (future plans). Hopefully the bigger reptile heater I'm ordering will take care of temperature consistency for her.
Does this sound acceptable?
Thanks again for all input!
Wolfus_305
03-25-12, 09:14 AM
I'll pick up a new heat mat, perhaps with the temp gun, along with the humidity gauge? Amazon has good prices, and I know these heat mats need an eye kept on them.
Does this mean that your heat mat is not on a thermostat?
No, I can put one on the list, though.
Gungirl
03-25-12, 02:16 PM
Heat mats can get WAY to hot and burn your snake. They NEED to be regulated by a thermostat.
I understand the concern. This heat mat has never (and I've checked), ever gotten that hot.
Gungirl
03-25-12, 02:49 PM
how are you checking the temp on it?
shaunyboy
03-25-12, 02:58 PM
I understand the concern. This heat mat has never (and I've checked), ever gotten that hot.
un thermostated heat mats can over heat to the point of going on fire and are very hazardous
read the post by MYKEE his information to you was spot on pal
cheers shaun
theapexgerman
03-25-12, 03:00 PM
You could always go to like an hardwear store and buy and lamp dimmer and use that to control your heat mat temp with some trial an error you'll get it spot on and they got many styles to chose from what I use
The lamp dimmer is a great idea. Thanks!
Gungirl, I've mentioned I've had to do it by touch, as my little petsmart dial thermometer isn't reliable according to these forums.
Gungirl
03-25-12, 06:58 PM
Your touch means nothing though.. to you 100 F doesn't feel warm at all you need to get an temp gun.
As I've said, I will when I get money this week. Can't really speed up that process.
Ikester1981
03-25-12, 07:25 PM
hello minaa. I am of the carpet persuasion but I will help share what I know. First of all. do not let all the yelling of force feeding get to you. you were simply doing what you felt was the best for your baby. to say NEVER force feed would be an overstatement IME. however, this is an ABSOLUTELY LAST RESORT!!!! In extreme cases such as not eating for 6-7weeks or more (excluding matting season). OR rapid weight loss. Every other method of feeding i.e braining, chicken broth down sizing prey ect... also yes the "husbandry". make sure you have backing on 3 FULL sides of your tank as well as a proper size hide. Your snake should feel snug and comfortable. a home made hide might help made of plywood and 2x2's. If you want better instructions on making them I would be happy to let you know. consider a repti fogger for shedding uses. amazon has them bout 50 bucks with shipping. as far as temp/humid. the petco thermos are fine. try putting them where you want to know said element such as right above the hide to know basking temps. providing an environment for your snake doesn't have to be as rigid as a catholic school nun, its not like this in the wild. so long as you have a close ball park you should be fine. If the bp pros say 3 weeks is fine then it should be. good bowel movements should be observed as well. If you only have 1 hide for now keep it on the "hot" end as a cold snake will not eat. a home made hide can cover your entire tank length. making them ideal IMO. This is your first snake and will be a learning experience. sometimes it may sound or be cruel but such is life. We learn best by doing. If ever you are afraid for your snakes life!?! find the best herp vet in your area and get an appointment asap. good luck and let us know how it goes!! :)
Ikester1981
03-25-12, 07:34 PM
Oh. I just saw that your snake prefers a "clean" food item. some snakes are just wired that way. maybe try washing your prey before feeding??? just an idea.
Hey Ikester1981, thank you for the vote of support. :] I never heard of "clean" food items, I'll definitely try giving the mice a good rinse the next time I feed her (I'm aiming for 10 days/two weeks, or whenever she starts looking around for food). I appreciate what you say about the dial thermometers, but I don't trust them after the amount of reading I've done independently. Getting a humidor thermometer/humidity gauge is precise and cheap, so, why not?
The only thing I've missed is the thermostat, and getting a temp gun+lamp dimmer should give me enough time to figure some more things out (cost effectiveness matters most to me right now, provided I'm giving the snake good care).
Past that, people say what they want to say. I'm an adult, I can choose to ignore it. :p
millertime89
03-26-12, 01:02 AM
are you SURE its a she?
is it possible she is in fact an underfed male in the middle of breeding season and just went off feed in his own special way?
edit: sorry if that was covered, I'm tired so I just skimmed the thread.
This is a great question.
I know tail length and spur size doesn't mean much with ball pythons.
I had a friend who is a protege of a local BP breeder sex her, and she attempted it several times without any indication of hemipenes. So, we figured she is a she.
She was born in late summer last year, so I believe she's still in range for her size, albeit a little small. I'd have to get a scale to tell for sure.
shaunyboy
03-26-12, 01:44 AM
to say NEVER force feed would be an overstatement IME. however, this is an ABSOLUTELY LAST RESORT!!!! In extreme cases such as not eating for 6-7weeks or more
a snake not eating for 6 or 7 weeks is NOT extreme mate (not being cheeky)
the ONLY time imo force feeding should be used,is if a snakes is losing enough wieght as to effect its health
i've had a carpet hatchlings NOT eat for 10 months with no ill effect
also the snake has been eating every 3 weeks,as said take MYKEE'S advice and correct your husbandry.this will improove the snakes shed and let you know if it will eat more
some snakes just don't eat all that often.its all down to husbandry and the individual snake
cheers shaun
Lankyrob
03-26-12, 05:25 AM
Just a thought with a dimmer switch - please take note!
When you set the dimmer to provide the right temp in the tank it is doing so ONLY at those exact environmental conditions. Should your room warm up then the temps will be too hot in the tank, if your room cools down the temps will be too cold in the tank.
Unless the outside environment is kept exactly the same then you will need to check those temps in the tank constantly in order to ensure you dont cook or chill your snake.
A thermostat will do all these constant temperature checks for you and give you more peace of mind. (Tho you should still check the temps weekly to ensure that the temps are stable :))
Thanks Lankyrob, I will definitely keep this in mind before I make my purchase. I like the lamp dimmer plan, but it may be best to go straight for a thermostat after all.
millertime89
03-26-12, 11:29 PM
you can get a decent t-stat for not much more than a dimmer switch.
I have 2 of these and will add more as I need to.
Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats: Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NZZG3S/ref=asc_df_B000NZZG3S1952878?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B000NZZG3S&hvpos=none&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2942817401994939993&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=)
That's the one I was looking at, actually. :D
millertime89
03-27-12, 12:49 AM
They get my vote for all beginners. Great price, super reliable, nothing too fancy = not too expensive.
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