Breeding rats

[Skits]

I might have to start breeding rats, it's not something I was looking into doing but paying almost 2$ for a small frozen rat at the petstore is killing me with the five snakes I have. So I wanted to know how I can go about doing it, I've never had rats before. I've had/have rabbits, hamsters, mice, etc though so I'm not new to rodents.

Can I keep 2 females in a cage with a male and have them breed or would I have to remove the male? Would he eat the babies or stress the mothers out?

And my other question is what's the most humane way to put them to sleep? My dad suggested putting them in a really small, closed container and told me it was painless for them but it sounds wrong to do that.

[exwizard]

The following link explains a lot about what is normally done with mouse and rat breeding; what each of us do and why. Its a really good read if you are interested in getting into rats.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/food-thought-forum/90140-how-my-mice-roll.html

Let me know what you think and if you have any other questions concerning this I will be happy to answer that as well.

[infernalis]

for 5 snakes, one pair of rats is enough, two females would produce more than you will need, unless you have larger snakes, then two would work at first.

a small container would be cruel, a small container and C02 gas is the most humane way.

A paintball cannister will put down quite a few rats between fills.

[Skits]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out now.

And sounds good, I have a boa constrictor but she eats really large rats. I'm not sure how I would be able to breed rats for her as well. I'm planning on getting a couple of more snakes soon though which is why I thought it would be best to start breeding my own food supply.

Edit: Also where would I get C02? How do I use that?

[KORBIN5895]

Actually breaking their necks is the most humane. We argued this In another thread.

[Skits]

I was just looking at the euthanasia thread if that's the one you are talking about. I'm not sure if I would be capable of doing that though.

[KORBIN5895]

I understand skits. I just got a breeding pair of rats and 11fuzzy/Hopper rats for 10 frozen mice because the man couldn't do it either. Good luck with your breeding.

[Skits]

Thanks :) I'm more nervous about taking the babies away from their mother. When my rabbit gave birth, our temperatures dropped in our basement and her babies froze and died. She freaked out.

Which reminds me we still have the babies in our freezer downstairs..hmm.

[Snakefood]

I do feed pinky rabbits to my bigger corns.

mamma rats don't make a big fuss about taking her babies away, I've had one try to take it back from me. but while she was putting that one back in the nest, I grabbed a sifferent one. Also if your looking for small adult rats, they will be weaned and separated from mamma by that time anyways. (rats are weaned at 4 weeks old.

I agree with Korbin that breaking the necks is the most humane way to kill them, but I also have a hubby willing to do it. if I didn't, I would go the CO2 route.

female rats have a 5 day estrus cycle, so if you have the male with the female for 7 days, your almost garaunteed a pregnancy

[insignia100]

Are there no companies like Rodent Pro that you could order frozen rats from in bulk? Even buying one 100 count bag for $20 of hoppers and paying $44 shipping, the price is still less than half of what I would pay at the pet store. If you're considering breeding rats, especially if you need to get them big, I would suggest just investing in a small chest freezer and order rats online. With just feeding 5 snakes, I think it will be cheaper in the long run to buy frozen and invest in a small freezer. It might be different if you had, say, 20 snakes...

[KORBIN5895]

Actually there aren't very many Canadian companies that are selling frozen rodents at a decent price. As a matter of fact I can order from rodentpro and resale them to the pet store cheaper than they can get them from their major suppliers.

Also if $2 bucks for a small rat is too expensive for him keep in mind that rodentpro sells small rats for a buck plus shipping. I have looked at several different suppliers and rodentpro is the cheapest I have found.

[insignia100]

Yea, I wish the local pet shop would order from Rodent Pro themselves. I paid over a dollar for a rat pinky when I was trying to get my hognoses to eat. The big thing is getting over the psychological barrier of shipping and investing a big chunk of money in an order. Just gotta tell yourself that you won't have to buy anything for the next 6 months!

[Skits]

I could probably order online, it would be a lot easier for me. Only problem is finding somewhere that they ship to canada, I looked a while back and most only shipped to the states.

[jarich]

Hmmmm Im not sure that I would recommend keeping rats frozen for 6 months or more. Fat goes rancid in that amount of time, Vit E is completely destroyed and the lengthened migration of the ice crystals will damage everything on a cellular level. I think vacuum sealing would help, and quite frankly maybe Im just being too picky and should shut up.

Ill just say this, fresh killed seems quite a bit more nutritious, but whether its a big enough deal to make a difference is unknown.

[exwizard]

Are there no companies like Rodent Pro that you could order frozen rats from in bulk? Even buying one 100 count bag for $20 of hoppers and paying $44 shipping, the price is still less than half of what I would pay at the pet store. If you're considering breeding rats, especially if you need to get them big, I would suggest just investing in a small chest freezer and order rats online. With just feeding 5 snakes, I think it will be cheaper in the long run to buy frozen and invest in a small freezer. It might be different if you had, say, 20 snakes...

The problem with having your order shipped from Rodentpro, is that the cost of shipping negates the savings incurred on the feeders themselves. I do have a snake friend who goes to Kansas City every other month when they have their reptile show and Rodentpro always has a huge amount of frozen feeders right on site so he picks up a bunch in bulk and resells what he doesnt need to other snake people in the metro.

[Skits]

I had micedirect come at my reptile show last year so if they are here this month, I'll pick up a few. But I was thinking that breeding my own rats would be less of a hassle. I already have cages and rodent food with the rodents I have. I was looking into having two females and a male, and if I have let's say 15 babies a month, I would be set with my snakes. I'm planning on getting a couple of more snakes over time anyway, so it would be great to have some extras in the freezer.

[exwizard]

I guarantee you this. It is so convenient to just dip into your own stock whenever you need any snake food. Just a heads up though. Keeping and breeding rats is a lot of work. If you get into this with your eyes wide open on that it will be worth it.

[Skits]

I know it must be, I've had litters of hamsters and rabbits already before though so I kind of know how it all is like. But I'm really looking forward to having my own stock on hand. Hopefully once it's all started, my dad won't be too worried about me bringing home a few more snakes. :p

[exwizard]

In addition to the daily checking to make sure they always have food and water. Regular cleaning is imperative. This really should be done at least once a week and if your populations are higher vs the housing space, then they should be cleaned at least twice a week. If you have the occasional flood, those tubs need to be cleaned out and fresh bedding put in immediately.

Breeding rats is a lot of fun though, especially when you can play around with the genetics of selective breeding to see what you can produce. The process is similar to that of snakes but the results come so much quicker. My hat off to you. Its been very rewarding for us and since we're on a little bigger scale than what our snakes can consume, we're able to supply others in the metro with what they need as well.

[Skits]

That too of course, haha. And that's true, might make breeding them a little more fun. :p

[insignia100]

The problem with having your order shipped from Rodentpro, is that the cost of shipping negates the savings incurred on the feeders themselves. I do have a snake friend who goes to Kansas City every other month when they have their reptile show and Rodentpro always has a huge amount of frozen feeders right on site so he picks up a bunch in bulk and resells what he doesnt need to other snake people in the metro.

It depends on where you are. The local pet shop in my town is very expensive. I can order 100 fuzzy mice, pay for shipping, and still only pay half of what it would have cost at our local pet store.

[KORBIN5895]

It depends on where you are. The local pet shop in my town is very expensive. I can order 100 fuzzy mice, pay for shipping, and still only pay half of what it would have cost at our local pet store.

I am in the same boat. An adult mouse is four dollars here. I can get five hundred adult mice shipped in from rodentpro for eighty dollars in shipping. The cost of the mouse us like sixty cents? Now divide eighty by five hundred. It still comes out to less than a buck each.

[takagari]

There are a few rodent sellers. and being in montreal you should have no trouble.

Check reptilescanada classifieds. Lots on that site all the time.

[mykee]

It's NEVER cheaper to buy rats than to breed your own. Whether you have two snakes or 100 snakes, breeding your own stuff is always cheaper. I've been breeding rats for close to 11 years now and I can get a rat to adult size for $0.45 (on premium rat food), consider they sell for anywhere between $3-$6.

[Skits]

I buy an adult rat for my boa for 9$. :O And they aren't usually even big enough. I'm going this weekend to pick up a pair of breeding rats, and a pair of mice as well. It will be well worth it, and saves the trouble of having to order them.

[exwizard]

I buy an adult rat for my boa for 9$. :O And they aren't usually even big enough. I'm going this weekend to pick up a pair of breeding rats, and a pair of mice as well. It will be well worth it, and saves the trouble of having to order them.

When we got started, we acquired 45 breeder rats at one time. The numbers went up from there. At one point in time we peaked at 600+ rats. While we dont have nearly that many now we are still over 300 between the 2 colonies, which by the way, we are transitioning right now to combine both colonies into one. If you start with just one pair, its going to take you a long time to build your stock up to being self sustaining, but I guess slow is good. That way youre not overwhelmed with the amount of work involved.

[KORBIN5895]

Hey Gary. Why don't you keep the colonies separate so disease doesn't take out your whole breeding stock.

[Skits]

I would love having more of a stock, but right now I'll want to start off slow. I'm going tomorrow I believe, to pick up 2-3 females and a male. I should have enough to feed my snakes with those alone for now, soon we'll start building a snake rack and I'll be getting a few more snakes so I'll start growing my colony once I start building the rack. Also I can't imagine having 300, even less 600 lol! I'm already up the walls with the pet rodents I currently have. But then again, feeders would be different.

[exwizard]

Hey Gary. Why don't you keep the colonies separate so disease doesn't take out your whole breeding stock.

I will answer that question, but first I want to give you a little history about these rats since we sold out of our stock we had in the van last fall at the Des Moines Reptile Show.

That day was busy yet we still had lots of rats left over but 2 people bought out the rest of what we had; one guy who owns a pet store in Nebraska and another guy from Missouri who wholesales rats to different pet stores. This guy traded us Euryale, our '08 female Dum for a bunch of these rats. Both these deals pretty much cleaned us out weaner and above except our breeders. The next 2 weekends were spent acquiring rats from 4 different sources to replace the ones we sold or traded. I guess all of this stressed out not only our breeders but the new rats as well and shortly after that, an RI bug was going around our colony. We had to bear the loss of a lot of breeders and a lot of babies were lost as well.

Later, we bought out another entire rat colony from someone else. Lauras mom said she would be willing to take this colony in and take care of them and help with their breeding. This has been really good for her and Im glad we did this. That having been said, we moved this colony all at once over the course of about 45 miles. The trip, relocation and setting up was stressing on them as well apparantly because they too developed an RI bug that spread throughout that colony resulting in a lot of losses.

The rats we have now in both colonies survived this RI and are stronger now than before.

Now, Laura works 8-10 hours a day and I work 11-15 hours a day. When we come home, we are tired but yet theres still so much to do at home including taking care of the rats and mice. Lauras mom is retired and is having a blast with these animals. She proposed to take on our rodents and add them to what she has there at the South Colony. This move will be good for everybody involved, but this transition will be a gradual one so as to not traumatise the rodents here and also to make sure they wont be too much to take on all at once there.

This, plus the fact that its been challenging to coordinate both colonies in terms of what we have and what we can sell, are the reasons why we are consolidating to the South Colony. The mice will be last to go there but eventually, they will go there as well.

I hope all this answers your question. :)

[Skits]

Just wanted to share that I bought my rats today! :) Both are very sweet. We got a male and a female only, mainly because my dad thought we were buying frozen rats and didn't bring much money. I set them up with some toys and hammocks and hopefully I can get some babies soon. They are about 4-5 months old from the looks of it. :)

[exwizard]

Very cool. They will enjoy their new digs very much. Remember, if youre going to feed live, one key to make it safer for your snakes is to keep the rats pet tame. While the risk isnt eliminated, it is significantly reduced.

[Skits]

I wasn't planning on feeding live, after thinking about it, would it be quicker for the mice to die that way rather than gassing? I doubt it but it was still a thought that came across my mind.

[exwizard]

Gassing is quicker. No doubt about that.

As far as feeding live is concerned, everyone on this forum knows I feed live. Ive explained the reasoning behind this in a number of threads but since you are new I will do it again. I know the risks but for me, its much more convenient since I have 16 snakes to feed and a stock already that I can just dip into. Feeding sessions are NEVER unsupervised and I do have a set of tongs just in case. My snakes all prefer live anyway. This isnt for everybody and most people here disagree with feeding live and thats ok. I know f/t or freshly killed is much safer for the snakes than live, pet tame or not, because that risk is eliminated to zero. I only brought it up because keeping the feeders pet tame does significantly reduce that risk if you do decide to feed live.

[Skits]

I'll most likely stick to feeding f/t, mostly because I wouldn't be able to feed a live adult mouse/rat, which is weird because I think I would be capable of feeding a live pinky or hopper. But if I ever have to feed live for whatever reason, I would definitely take the precautions, thanks :)

[Snakefood]

well a females cycle is 5 days, so within 7 days of the 2 being together, she will be pregnant. gestation is 19-21 days and then another 4 weeks until they are weaned.