The last dragon Special - Fruit eating Monitor

[infernalis]

Animal Planet :: Butaan: The Lost Dragon (http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/wildkingdom/butaan/about/about.html)

I have to get this on DVD....

Great images for free download.

Animal Planet :: Butaan: The Lost Dragon Wallpaper (http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/wildkingdom/butaan/wallpaper/wallpaper.html)

[bushsnake]

ive seen this episode a couple times. Its really educational, i loved it...get yourself some Auffenburg literature Wayne...you will love it

[infernalis]

ive seen this episode a couple times. Its really educational, i loved it...get yourself some Auffenburg literature Wayne...you will love it


Thanks man.. I will.

Anything at all about these incredible animals is of great interest to me.:D

[bodiddleyitis]

That film gave completely the wrong impression about the butaan project. It was a collaboration between me, Augusto Zafe and Gil Sopranes with regular help from Vincente Yngente. For some reason nobody from Polillo Island gets to say a word in the whole documentary. The first version was wildly inaccurate and deeply insulting to the people of Polillo, but thankfully when Animal Planet used it for Mutual of Omagh series they scrubbed the commentary and replaced it with something a bit better. But they couldn't change the image sequence.
I'm not saying Animal Planet/Discovery are racist, but how many of their shows are filmed in East Africa, and how many African presenters have they ever had?

[bodiddleyitis]

This is the best butaan film I've ever seen. It's worth watching to the end, honest

rzshFhpl1go

No idea how to embed sorry Young lizard learns to eat fruit - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzshFhpl1go)

[infernalis]

That film gave completely the wrong impression about the butaan project. It was a collaboration between me, Augusto Zafe and Gil Sopranes with regular help from Vincente Yngente. For some reason nobody from Polillo Island gets to say a word in the whole documentary. The first version was wildly inaccurate and deeply insulting to the people of Polillo, but thankfully when Animal Planet used it for Mutual of Omagh series they scrubbed the commentary and replaced it with something a bit better. But they couldn't change the image sequence.
I'm not saying Animal Planet/Discovery are racist, but how many of their shows are filmed in East Africa, and how many African presenters have they ever had?

Daniel, I am rather discouraged with the overall direction Animal Planet (Discovery Networks) has taken in recent years.

They ran a special about a home here in the US that was supposed to be infested with so many snakes the owners were forced to abandon the home, yet they called upon a friend of mine to bring his captive specimens to the video shoot for "dramatic effect"

The recent broadcasts of the Rattlesnake roundups (It's a slaughter festival) and the gator hunting is disgusting.

sadly no DVD release of the Butaan "Lost Dragon" special yet.

[bodiddleyitis]

I'd never ever work with them again. One day I hope I'll finish my own butaan documentary, it will have a very beautiful presenter, no sign of me and lots more lizard footage!

[Bradyloach]

Hey Daniel, we're can I get your book, I've look at several book stores! I really really want to read it

[infernalis]

I'd never ever work with them again. One day I hope I'll finish my own butaan documentary, it will have a very beautiful presenter, no sign of me and lots more lizard footage!


Sign me up.

I did notice on your youtube video "Joo-Jah Tree" that you seemed to intentionally keep your face out of frame, or am I mistaken?

[infernalis]

Hey Daniel, we're can I get your book, I've look at several book stores! I really really want to read it

Since you are in Canada, and Ravi is Canadian, Ravi has a stack available.

If Daniel does not mind, or prefers, I can set you up with Ravi's contact information.

[bushsnake]

That film gave completely the wrong impression about the butaan project. It was a collaboration between me, Augusto Zafe and Gil Sopranes with regular help from Vincente Yngente. For some reason nobody from Polillo Island gets to say a word in the whole documentary. The first version was wildly inaccurate and deeply insulting to the people of Polillo, but thankfully when Animal Planet used it for Mutual of Omagh series they scrubbed the commentary and replaced it with something a bit better. But they couldn't change the image sequence.
I'm not saying Animal Planet/Discovery are racist, but how many of their shows are filmed in East Africa, and how many African presenters have they ever had?
hmm, i liked it..what was the wrong impression that they gave, it seemed the information about the species was accurate

[crocdoc]

For some reason nobody from Polillo Island gets to say a word in the whole documentary. ...
I'm not saying Animal Planet/Discovery are racist, but how many of their shows are filmed in East Africa, and how many African presenters have they ever had?
I don't think they're alone there. A few years ago I visited a cave on Flores that attracts reticulated pythons, known as Istana Ular (python palace). The wonderful guide we had, Hari (I hope that's the correct spelling of his name) made it all possible, driving us to the village, getting permission from the locals (the cave has significance in the local lore as the snakes are thought to represent the ghosts of ancestors) and permission from the farmer on whose property the cave is situated. On the way to the cave he proudly told us about taking Brady Barr and his film crew there the previous year and about how Barr copped a bad bite from one of the retics.

By coincidence, that very Barr episode was on TV within a month of my return from Indonesia, so I recorded it. I don't normally watch any personality based animal shows, but I thought it would be interesting to watch this particular episode. When the bite happens, you can even see Hari appear in front of the camera when he rushed forward to offer Barr help.

I watched the episode to the end and looked for Hari's name in the credits, perhaps even under the usual list of 'with thanks to', but it wasn't to be seen anywhere. I thought that was mean-spirited and it got me quite angry. I knew that there was no way that film crew would have been able to get to and into that cave without Hari's help. On top of that, the cave is one of the foulest environments one can imagine - thigh high guano and 'air' saturated with ammonia (not to mention the risk of diseases from the bats and guano), but Hari would have happily done that without complaint for a day's wages that would barely buy a music CD in the western world. Why not give the man at least a simple 'thanks'? Perhaps they figured that because he is brown and lives on the islands, he wouldn't own a DVD player. I hope it was an oversight, but even though Hari hadn't said anything about it (he was quite glowing about the whole experience) it left a bitter taste in my mouth.

[red ink]

I remember growing up in Central Luzon seeing a large monitor be brought in to my grandparents' village... I was about 10 years old and this thing was dark and massive it was caught in the mountains. I would'nt know which species of endemic monitor it was though. It was and is the only ever native varanid I have ever seen in the homeland.

[infernalis]

Thank you both, Daniel and crocdoc for this insight, I have disliked them for other reasons, this just solidifies my disdain for them.

[bodiddleyitis]

Hey Daniel, we're can I get your book, I've look at several book stores! I really really want to read it

Better to get it from Ravi, I'm not here to sell anything!

[bodiddleyitis]

hmm, i liked it..what was the wrong impression that they gave, it seemed the information about the species was accurate

I can't actually remember, I haven't seen it for years and I don't have a copy anymore. All I remember is that it looked like it was me doing all the work, with brown people following me about, the truth was rather the opposite most of the time.

[bodiddleyitis]

I remember growing up in Central Luzon seeing a large monitor be brought in to my grandparents' village... I was about 10 years old and this thing was dark and massive it was caught in the mountains. I would'nt know which species of endemic monitor it was though. It was and is the only ever native varanid I have ever seen in the homeland.

There were fruit eating monitors all over Luzon until quite recently. Now they are almost extinct in the southwest and nobody has really looked properly in the northwest. Was this in Mountain province?

[red ink]

There were fruit eating monitors all over Luzon until quite recently. Now they are almost extinct in the southwest and nobody has really looked properly in the northwest. Was this in Mountain province?


Nah mate... it was in the rice basins of Central Luzon (Pampanga) with the particular animal caugh in Mt. Arayat. This incident was over two decades ago. Pampanga is about 140km North of Manila.

Yeah it's a shame that they are no longer there (well i think anyway). As a child I remember grandad telling me stories on how biawaks were around when he was a child and as close as 20km of the village when you get into the rice fileds they can be sometimes seen hanging out in Accacia trees.

One thing though there's not much pandanas in Central Luzon so it/they could have been a different species?

[bodiddleyitis]

Nah mate... it was in the rice basins of Central Luzon (Pampanga) with the particular animal caugh in Mt. Arayat. This incident was over two decades ago. Pampanga is about 140km North of Manila.

Yeah it's a shame that they are no longer there (well i think anyway). As a child I remember grandad telling me stories on how biawaks were around when he was a child and as close as 20km of the village when you get into the rice fileds they can be sometimes seen hanging out in Accacia trees.

One thing though there's not much pandanas in Central Luzon so it/they could have been a different species?

Yes it could well have been marmoratus, if there's no Pandanus around it must have been!

[red ink]

Yes it could well have been marmoratus, if there's no Pandanus around it must have been!


Thanks mate... I'll check to see if i can find images of V. mamoratus and compare it with my hazy memory :)

[infernalis]

Just found this...

New Giant Lizard Discovery "an Unprecedented Surprise" (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100407-new-giant-lizard-varabus-bitatawa-biology-letters/)

[red ink]

Just found images of V. mamoratus... I'd say it's pretty spot on from what I saw as a child. The animal was fairly dark and had no colour in it apart from specs of gray and some light bandings.

I'll have to ask around next time I'm back there to see if they are still seen as I have family still living deep into the rural farmland areas.

[infernalis]

From Mampam Conservation - The Butaan Project - Monitoring Populations (http://www.mampam.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=113&Itemid=65)

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[millertime89]

a monitor that has evolved to be a vegetarian is something crazy. If you guys know anything about evolution vegetarianism is a very highly specialized trait that is extremely difficult to achieve effectively. That's crazy.

[bodiddleyitis]

a monitor that has evolved to be a vegetarian is something crazy. If you guys know anything about evolution vegetarianism is a very highly specialized trait that is extremely difficult to achieve effectively. That's crazy.

Strictly it's frugivory and much easier to do than herbivory for a carnivorous species. There's no cellulose to digest, you just need to be strong enough to pick the fruits!

[infernalis]

Exciting to learn about them, sad they are rapidly vanishing.

[millertime89]

Strictly it's frugivory and much easier to do than herbivory for a carnivorous species. There's no cellulose to digest, you just need to be strong enough to pick the fruits!

Good point. I didn't read enough to notice that.

[infernalis]

Monitor Media | The Reptile Report (http://thereptilereport.com/monitor-media/)

http://www.varanus.us/reports/buttan.gif

[KORBIN5895]

Whoa! We are really in the spot light here.

[bodiddleyitis]

It wasn't newly rediscovered; Walter Auffenberg found it in the 1970s, maybe that is one of the mistakes.

[Will0W783]

Daniel, have you and your colleagues looked at the digestive enzymes of the lizard? I'm curious as to how much it's stomach pH and/or enzyme cocktails have evolved to deal with a fruit diet instead of meat.

[bodiddleyitis]

No I only touched them about 20 times in 11 years. I left their insides alone. Walter Auffenberg looked at the gut morphology; it's got a bit of a caecum and its tough enough to pass big seeds. I think the brains would be much more interesting than the stomachs!

[infernalis]

The show is scheduled to rerun on Animal Planet Tuesday morning 12 February 2013.

Don't miss it!

Daniel Bennett - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2508920/?ref_=tt_cl_t2)

http://www.varanus.us/Bennett/APBS.gif

[Rakoladycz]

Daniel, I haven't watch the Wild Kingdom episode in full but have it set to record. What is the fruit they eat similar too? Also I remember you speaking with Ben Aller about a pulp diet or something similar? Would you be willing to go into further detail about the diet? I have no desire to keep them nor do I think the average keeper should but have a general interest.

[Pirarucu]

I'm curious Daniel, in your opinion what would a suitable diet in captivity be? Obviously keeping them on a purely natural diet with things such as Pandanus would be impractical at best, if not impossible to provide, even in the case of a conservation project to breed them in captivity. What more common fruits would they do well on, if you had to guess?

[infernalis]

Related thread.....

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/91734-new-monitor-species-found-3.html

[bodiddleyitis]

I'm curious Daniel, in your opinion what would a suitable diet in captivity be? Obviously keeping them on a purely natural diet with things such as Pandanus would be impractical at best, if not impossible to provide, even in the case of a conservation project to breed them in captivity. What more common fruits would they do well on, if you had to guess?

Much of the confusion arises over anthropomorphic ideas of fruit. We tend to think of them as soft, sugary things like grapes and bananas. The primary food of all frugivorous monitors is Pandanus; rock hard, fibrous, waxy keys. There isn't anything remotely similar in the human diet. Canarium spp. are also common in the diet of olivaeus and bitatawa; they are a little bit like olives but much harder, and often have calcium oxalate crystals on the outside - excruciatingly painful if it gets in your mouth. The sugary fruits that are eaten by olivaceus are restricted to Microcos and a few balete fruits. They are not common dietary items which is not surprising - monitor lizards have not evolved to survive on sugars, they require protein and fats, and whereas most species get their fats from the animals they eat, frugivorous monitors get them from fruit. The metabolic processes that allow them to process waxes and plant oils into energy and lizard meat are very different from the "normal" pathways that most monitor lizards use to process animal prey.
This, unfortunately, is lost on many people who only know monitor lizards from boxes. They see butaan gobbling down chicks and rodents, and that convinces them that they must be the same as all other monitor lizards; generalist predators that will eat anything they come across. If this were true then it would be very hard to explain the presence of more than one species of Varanus in any place, carnivorous or not. There are generalist monitor lizards on all continents, often sympatric with species that have a more specialised lifestyle. It surprises me that they all act the same in boxes as much as it would surprise the owners of the boxes if they took the trouble to take a look at how the animals behave in the wild.

[Pirarucu]

Much of the confusion arises over anthropomorphic ideas of fruit. We tend to think of them as soft, sugary things like grapes and bananas. The primary food of all frugivorous monitors is Pandanus; rock hard, fibrous, waxy keys. There isn't anything remotely similar in the human diet. Canarium spp. are also common in the diet of olivaeus and bitatawa; they are a little bit like olives but much harder, and often have calcium oxalate crystals on the outside - excruciatingly painful if it gets in your mouth. The sugary fruits that are eaten by olivaceus are restricted to Microcos and a few balete fruits. They are not common dietary items which is not surprising - monitor lizards have not evolved to survive on sugars, they require protein and fats, and whereas most species get their fats from the animals they eat, frugivorous monitors get them from fruit. The metabolic processes that allow them to process waxes and plant oils into energy and lizard meat are very different from the "normal" pathways that most monitor lizards use to process animal prey.
This, unfortunately, is lost on many people who only know monitor lizards from boxes. They see butaan gobbling down chicks and rodents, and that convinces them that they must be the same as all other monitor lizards; generalist predators that will eat anything they come across. If this were true then it would be very hard to explain the presence of more than one species of Varanus in any place, carnivorous or not. There are generalist monitor lizards on all continents, often sympatric with species that have a more specialised lifestyle. It surprises me that they all act the same in boxes as much as it would surprise the owners of the boxes if they took the trouble to take a look at how the animals behave in the wild.So in short their diet should be one of these harder fruits rather than the sweet things that humans eat? I know the videos you're talking about... Wonder who exactly came up with that one. Next we'll be feeding Savannah Monitors fruit instead of mice and bugs...

[infernalis]

The videos are most likely illegally exported specimens, or possibly AZA registered specimens.

I just got done watching the entire episode of Wild Kingdom, and there is only one place that has successfully bred these animals.

From the literature I have read, other attempts to produce offspring have failed.

[infernalis]

I am very angry right now, My DVD recorder glitched the disc rendering it unreadable.

[Rakoladycz]

Wayne I was curious how true his breeding attempts really were. I wondered if they didn't just bring in gravid females. Been at work and will have to get to the dvr later.

[varanus_mad]

The videos are most likely illegally exported specimens, or possibly AZA registered specimens.

I just got done watching the entire episode of Wild Kingdom, and there is only one place that has successfully bred these animals.

From the literature I have read, other attempts to produce offspring have failed.


Wayne when you say bred how succesfully are we talking more than one clutch?

was there repeated success in this area.

[infernalis]

Wayne when you say bred how succesfully are we talking more than one clutch?

was there repeated success in this area.

Within the Television special, the man who succeeded in producing one single offspring was hoping for more, The documentary aired in 2007.

So in all honesty, Daniel would be the best person to ask.

[bodiddleyitis]

Wayne when you say bred how succesfully are we talking more than one clutch?

was there repeated success in this area.

Avilon Zoo got one hatchling. The account of breeding V. olivaceus by Lutz is fabricated.

[Rakoladycz]

Avilon Zoo got one hatchling. The account of breeding V. olivaceus by Lutz is fabricated.


I suspected that! :/

[murrindindi]

I suspected that! :/


Hi Randy, there was a thread on the supposed successful breeding at the HC a couple of years ago, I remember Daniel challenging the poster`s information at the time.

[_Varanidae_]

Dallas Zoo hatched out a single offspring in 1992, but it died shortly after hatching.

[infernalis]

Dallas Zoo hatched out a single offspring in 1992, but it died shortly after hatching.

Did anyone figure out why it died?

[_Varanidae_]

Congenital defects.

[infernalis]

Attributed to??

[varanus_mad]

Attributed to??


My guess poor nesting. I don't have any proof as such but these congenital defects crop up more in poorly nested varanus eggs.

after all if the hatch rates were so poor in wild varanids they'd be extinct

[crocdoc]

That's my guess as well. When I saw this thread yesterday, my first thought was that if there was only one hatchling something was amiss (most likely nesting) and that one hatchling is most likely lucky to be alive at all - having it healthy as well would be a stretch.

[infernalis]

Apparently, their protection status is not very heavily enforced.

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http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/75943_343653425752609_456115804_n.jpg

[V87]

Apparently, their protection status is not very heavily enforced.

1BZBGEjjQmo

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/75943_343653425752609_456115804_n.jpg

There was a report a while saying how they are now more readily a available in the trade now over in the phillipines and other islands .... They do re enforce any animal laws out there ... If I have seen the bush babie program they had on the beeb the illegal sellers openly do it in front of the law but give back ganders to the police or law enforcements ... We have a guy out in Vietnam trying to stop illegal trafficking of animals live and parts but the laws over there a mental and they usually have to bribe officials in order to confiscate animals and go through the courts by that time it's to late ... He has seem thousands of monitors illegally sold and traded .... It's f in horrendous ....