Gutloading and Feeder Colonies

[Kiljosh]

Wasn't sure if this went here or Invertebrates.

How do you all gutload your feeder insects? I am thinking of starting a colony of feeders for a Fire Skink.

I have read they eat a variety of insects, earth worms being a favorite. Also crickets, butter worms, silk worms, meal worms and apparently " a variety of washed, rinsed, dried and finely chopped fruit."

So of all the insects to choose, what would you start a colony of for this lizard and what would you do to gutload them. I have read you can buy premade gutload or just make it using crushed dog food, greens, and cereal. Thoughts?

I was told to feed him 6 crickets every other day, but it seems a small amount coming from snakes. He weighs 26.5 grams, any opinions on his current diet? I am dusting 6 crickets a week. The Reptivite bottle says 12 crickets dusted a week for every 71grams of body weight. The supplement I am using is here. (http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?SearchID=5&DatabaseID=2&EntryID=3)

[jarich]

If you raise earthworms in a calcium rich soil they are probably the best food you can give it. The Ca:P ratio is the best (2:1) and the other nutrients are very good too. Raising earthworms is pretty easy and you can actually use your kitchen vegetable scraps as compost. Buying alfalfa meal online is very cheap and is how you increase the calcium level of the soil.

Crickets are stinky, noisy and escape all the time so they can be a big pain. They do breed like crazy though and are easy to gutload cheaply. Again, mix that alfalfa meal with corn meal, whole grain flour, corn meal and calcium supplement to gutload them. You can make an entire pound of it for about $4 (the same price as a tiny little package of gutload from the pet store). Ive never raised any of the worms before as they have to go through various cycles and seem like they may be a little more hassle than they are worth. Roaches are simple and breed like crazy, do not stink and do not escape easily so they may be your best option. However, keep in mind that they do need to be supplemented as well (their Ca:P ratio is pretty low)

Do not use high protein foods like dog or cat food for gutload. Those are usually not very nutritious, often high in fats, and are totally unnecessary for your animal.

The problem with that supplement you are using is that it still has phosphorous in it. So even though the supplement has a 2:1 ratio, if you add it to crickets, then your ratio is way off again. (Crickets generally have a much higher amount of phosphorous than calcium) Dusting with just calcium is better in most cases.

[Kiljosh]

Honestly I forgot to check this post, so sorry for the late reply!

So I am aiming for a food with 2:1 Calcium to Phosphorous, lowish in fat? You say Earthworms are fine, I'm leaning towards them as well but I am worried about parasites.

Can I just buy some worms from a bait shop and start a "colony" and not have parasites possibly coming in with the first generation infecting generation after generation of new worm? Or do they normally just die off. Sorry if that's a dumb question.

Thanks for the Alfalfa Meal tip

[SpOoKy]

Honestly I forgot to check this post, so sorry for the late reply!

So I am aiming for a food with 2:1 Calcium to Phosphorous, lowish in fat? You say Earthworms are fine, I'm leaning towards them as well but I am worried about parasites.

Can I just buy some worms from a bait shop and start a "colony" and not have parasites possibly coming in with the first generation infecting generation after generation of new worm? Or do they normally just die off. Sorry if that's a dumb question.

I feed bait shop worms

[jarich]

The problem with bait shop worms, aside from the potential risk of pesticides/herbicides/fungicides, is that they are usually Canadian nightcrawlers. Those are some of the biggest around (we Canadians call them dew worms) but they also require cool temperatures. It means they are much harder to raise and dont breed as easily. You can save yourself the hassle by just buying from an online breeder who deals in reptile feeders. You can then buy the hardier and faster breeding African nightcrawlers. They do well in room temperature soil, breed fast and are almost as big. Plus then you dont have to worry about the risk of any chemicals that may come with them.

If you are feeding bait shop worms I really recommend keeping them in clean soil for at least a few days before you feed them to your reptile. That way anything in their gut can be cycled out and you dont have to worry as much about their origins. Plus it gives you the chance to increase their Calcium ratio.

As far as the worm's food source goes, the Ca:P of 2:1 is what you need from them as feeder sources, not necessarily what you feed them. They eat the decaying plant matter in soil, so thats why I suggested the alfalfa. Its high in Ca and that means they end up with a 2:1 ratio as a result.