Thoughts on Snakes Getting Passed Around

[exwizard]

I have seen this myself where someone can no longer keep a snake for whatever reason and sells it to someone else only to sell it to someone else a short time later, and so on, and so on. Before you know it, that snake is messed up healthwise and temperment as well. What are you guys' thoughts on this? Im interested to see what other peoples' opinions are on this.

[alessia55]

I only buy animals if I am able to keep it for the entirety of its life. If I had to rehome an animal, I'd make sure the new owner has the same intention. Moving a snake from one place to another frequently is stressful, and as you pointed out, has consequences on the snake's health and temperament. Personally, I'm not fond of people who "flip" snakes like that.

[Terranaut]

I'm in it for life. As with every pet I have had. I get very upset when I hear about this stuff. Or the I traded a snake or whatever. Would you trade a kid away? Come on. I actualy don't even like the term " collection" when refering to ones "pets".
BUT
If something happened and I had to let them go I certainly wouldn't be selling them. A rehome is that. If they want to pay you fine. If you trust them and love your animal you will give it to them. I will say I have never had this happen so I truly can't say I know what its like but thats how I feel from this side.

[exwizard]

I agree with you guys on this as I have vowed numerous times that I will keep each one of my pets snakes as long as they live. The above reasons and the fact that I had sold Schatzi to a guy I knew well was what prompted this vow of mine. Btw, Im so glad he gave her back to me instead of putting her on Craigslist. That wouldve been really bad. Now that I have her back. Shes going nowhere either.

Thank you Alessia and Terranaut for your responses. I am interested to see what others have to say on this as well.

[infernalis]

I have always kept every animal I get until it dies.

[Skumbo]

I'm in it for life. As with every pet I have had. I get very upset when I hear about this stuff. Or the I traded a snake or whatever. Would you trade a kid away? Come on. I actualy don't even like the term " collection" when refering to ones "pets".
BUT
If something happened and I had to let them go I certainly wouldn't be selling them. A rehome is that. If they want to pay you fine. If you trust them and love your animal you will give it to them. I will say I have never had this happen so I truly can't say I know what its like but thats how I feel from this side.

this.. in every way!

[exwizard]

I have always kept every animal I get until it dies.

I like your thinking

[exwizard]

this.. in every way!

To me now, selling a pet anake is like selling the family dog. Idts.

[KORBIN5895]

Well I have purchased animals with no intention of keeping them. I have also purchased animals strictly for the resale aspect. I don't see doing that much different than breeding an animal and selling the young. Sorry.

I actually have to get rid of two of my snakes if I want the sunglow project. Honestly it is bothering me quite a bit but it is what I have to do if I want my sunglows.

Now on a side note my baby bci Gabby will never be sold traded or bartered.

[red ink]

It comes in breathing at my house stays for a long, long time, leaves when it goes to the big outback in the sky.

We have laws here that help stem that kind of shenanigans.

[exwizard]

Well I have purchased animals with no intention of keeping them. I have also purchased animals strictly for the resale aspect. I don't see doing that much different than breeding an animal and selling the young. Sorry.

I actually have to get rid of two of my snakes if I want the sunglow project. Honestly it is bothering me quite a bit but it is what I have to do if I want my sunglows.

Now on a side note my baby bci Gabby will never be sold traded or bartered.

I understand and I certainly an NOT here to judge you or anyone else. We have bought a baby snake in the past dirt cheap and in a few months time sold it for more than twice what we paid for it. It was never our intention on keeping it as a pet. That having been said, sometimes I wonder what became of that snake and how she is doing.

What I would like to do is relate a short story about a little albino Burm named Butters. This snake was so sweet but some friends of ours traded that snake for a Boa another friend of ours had. This other friend did not keep the Burm because he lived in an apartment. Anyway, Butters was passed around several times, and in so doing, picked up mites, battlescars from who knows what, was dehydrated, underweight and going though a bad shed. The original couple was able to get him back and when they saw the shape he was in, they vowed he was going nowhere and they nursed him back to health. This is one example of several that Ive seen that really confirmed in my mind why I think the way I do.

[Maclyal]

since I breed them to sell, I look at it a little different.

I buy specific snakes for breeding & I also have a few that are pets & will never leave.

if you breed animals of any kind, you must be able to seperate business
animals form family pets.

[exwizard]

since I breed them to sell, I look at it a little different.

I buy specific snakes for breeding & I also have a few that are pets & will never leave.

if you breed animals of any kind, you must be able to seperate business
animals form family pets.

Yes I agree with this as well. When you breed, selling the babies goes hand in hand. Thats what expos are all about. These are not pets and I understand that. Besides, if nobody sold any snakes they had there wouldnt be any to acquire anyway. I know a lot of people who keep snakes as breeders and its a business to them. That to me is different than selling pet snakes.

[BarelyBreathing]

There was a post on another forum that actually sickened me. Basically the guy traded some sort of item (I think it was a microwave) for a snake, and twenty minutes later he traded that snake to another guy for a different snake. Then he sold that snake two weeks later.

[infernalis]

I should rephrase - I sell babies, but ONLY to qualified buyers.

I like to read posts about most of my sold babies for years after the sale.

[exwizard]

There was a post on another forum that actually sickened me. Basically the guy traded some sort of item (I think it was a microwave) for a snake, and twenty minutes later he traded that snake to another guy for a different snake. Then he sold that snake two weeks later.

Thats what Im talking about. This type of snake flipping is so sad for that snake.

[red ink]

You also get people who will buy a pair of adult snakes breed them for a couple of years in succession, make money and grab a few holdbacks, then flip the breeding pair once the holdbacks are old enough to breed. Who knows how many times that breeding pair has been flip on and if the female ever got a break from breeding with each new owner looking to buy a "breeding pair".

[KORBIN5895]

I understand and I certainly an NOT here to judge you or anyone else. We have bought a baby snake in the past dirt cheap and in a few months time sold it for more than twice what we paid for it. It was never our intention on keeping it as a pet. That having been said, sometimes I wonder what became of that snake and how she is doi[ng

I wonder if breeders ever wonder what happened to each snake they sold.

I also wonder how people that feel strongly about "never selling a pet" draw their line between what is a pet and what isn't. I breed mice and sell them. I don't see the difference between selling a mouse as a feeder or buy two rabbits for ten bucks and selling them twenty minutes later for thirty dollars. I am looking to purchase a brb that is four months old and has to be force fed. I want to get him eating because I have a guy that is willing to purchase it from Mfor about fifty percent more than i paid. Am I evil? Yes I am! ( Metallica is now running through my head.)

[exwizard]

I should rephrase - I sell babies, but ONLY to qualified buyers.

I like to read posts about most of my sold babies for years after the sale.

Yeah that would put a smile on my face as well. :)

[BarelyBreathing]

Here it is: The response he gave when somebody asked him how much his new dumeril boa cost

I actually paid $40 + an RTB in trade (which I didn't even own until twenty minutes before I bought the Dumerils...LOL). I scored the RTB for $50 + a microwave (that I got for free), then drove straight over and purchased the Dumerils.

Best deal I've made on a reptile so far...except maybe for the Tiger Retic I bought for $125 and sold for $250 a mere 3 weeks later!!

[exwizard]

I wonder if breeders ever wonder what happened to each snake they sold.

I also wonder how people that feel strongly about "never selling a pet" draw their line between what is a pet and what isn't. I breed mice and sell them. I don't see the difference between selling a mouse as a feeder or buy two rabbits for ten bucks and selling them twenty minutes later for thirty dollars. I am looking to purchase a brb that is four months old and has to be force fed. I want to get him eating because I have a guy that is willing to purchase it from Mfor about fifty percent more than i paid. Am I evil? Yes I am! ( Metallica is now running through my head.)

Youre funny. :) Our rodents are livestock, not pets. Thats where I draw that line. All 16 of our snakes are pets and as such they will stay here the rest of their lives, just like our dog. Thats the way I feel about it.

[red ink]

I wonder if breeders ever wonder what happened to each snake they sold.

I also wonder how people that feel strongly about "never selling a pet" draw their line between what is a pet and what isn't.

Some breeders do some breeders dont... I like to get as much update as I can from people that have bought animals from me (even if they do move them on, they have my permission to pass on my details to the new owners).

I decide if it's a pet or not the second I pull my wallet out, if I decide it's a pet there and then, it dies in my house (hopefully after a long and happy life). If it's taking up room and I want a "new" pet or a new project, I sell off the ones that are'nt pets or I wait till the pet dies.

This is the reason why I have been waiting to get back into Odatrias for years now.... my bearded dragon is still alive and hopefully be still alive in a few more years. Till then no new lizards enter my house except for the ones I breed to sell off to sustain my hobby.

[KORBIN5895]

Youre funny. :) Our rodents are livestock, not pets. Thats where I draw that line. All 16 of our snakes are pets and as such they will stay here the rest of their lives, just like our dog. Thats the way I feel about it.

Now this is where biased opinions come into play! How would someone feel about your statement that had pet rats?

[exwizard]

Here it is: The response he gave when somebody asked him how much his new dumeril boa cost

Oh man! Poor snakes.

[KORBIN5895]

I decide if it's a pet or not the second I pull my wallet out, if I decide it's a pet there and then, it dies in my house (hopefully after a long and happy life). If it's taking up room and I want a "new" pet or a new project, I sell off the ones that are'nt pets or I wait till the pet dies.

So then we are in agreement to an extent. I find people that want a certain pet then I acquire it for them. Now one of my bci was given to me from a kid that was going to college. When I picked it up the tank had four sheds lying in the bottom and a pile of crap. Well several piles of crap. It wasn't really a pet to begin with but I have grown a bit attached.

[exwizard]

Now this is where biased opinions come into play! How would someone feel about your statement that had pet rats?

I have had pet rats in the past and I am also fully aware of the animosity that rat people feel toward snake people. Rats make great pets and we have sold some of our rats as pets. Im just saying that to us, our rodents are not pets even though we keep them as tame as pets.

[KORBIN5895]

I know Gary. I am just using it as part of a long drawn out point I am making. It's easy to hate on people for buying and selling but how can we judge someone with a different value system? What makes ours right? What makes theirs wrong?

[exwizard]

Im not judging anyone. I just remember what Ive seen in some of these snakes that get passed around and this is what Im relating to you guys which illustrates my reasoning for keeping all of my snakes.

[Strutter769]

since I breed them to sell, I look at it a little different.

If you breed animals of any kind, you must be able to seperate business
animals form family pets.

I may have missed the boat on that one. Cici was bought as a pet, definitey, but it was very shortly after that when the discussions of taking that next step began, as did the research. Husbandry, best breeders, cost, space requirement, etc. etc..

Now, the thought of keeping them in a tub, in a rack, where I'll never see them (not that I do now, but...) I know for certain I want at least one of them on display, and I've only got an enclosure for one adult. So, two of them will be making the transition from pet to "stock." Or should I say "I" will be making the transition?

[CK SandBoas]

All of my adult snakes are my pets, they will be staying with me for my entire life. I just cannot imagine having or wanting to sell them, they just mean so much to me. I've actually turned down offers from qualified buyers on my adult Female Paradox Albino Sand Boa, no amount of money means that much to me.

The babies from her breedings, on the other hand, i sell,minus a few holdback males and females.

[KORBIN5895]

Im not judging anyone. I just remember what Ive seen in some of these snakes that get passed around and this is what Im relating to you guys which illustrates my reasoning for keeping all of my snakes.

I think I am making it worse. :/

[exwizard]

I may have missed the boat on that one. Cici was bought as a pet, definitey, but it was very shortly after that when the discussions of taking that next step began, as did the research. Husbandry, best breeders, cost, space requirement, etc. etc..

Now, the thought of keeping them in a tub, in a rack, where I'll never see them (not that I do now, but...) I know for certain I want at least one of them on display, and I've only got an enclosure for one adult. So, two of them will be making the transition from pet to "stock." Or should I say "I" will be making the transition?

Pets and breeders dont have to be mutually exclusive. Just because all my snakes are pets does not mean I dont plan on breeding some of the. I do. That having been said, when people are in the snake breeding business, theyre not selling the breeders> Theyre selling the babies. Thats all part of that business. If these snakes were originally pets, they can continue to be pets and yes a display viv is aweome to have. Myself, I dont have the room or the money for a viv and thats why most of our snakes are in racks but I do pull them out regularly and interact with them as the pets that they are.

[exwizard]

I think I am making it worse. :/

In what way? I find this whole discussion quite facinating. :)

[exwizard]

All of my adult snakes are my pets, they will be staying with me for my entire life. I just cannot imagine having or wanting to sell them, they just mean so much to me. I've actually turned down offers from qualified buyers on my adult Female Paradox Albino Sand Boa, no amount of money means that much to me.

The babies from her breedings, on the other hand, i sell,minus a few holdback males and females.

Yes, thats where Im coming from as well.

[Skumbo]

I should rephrase - I sell babies, but ONLY to qualified buyers.

I like to read posts about most of my sold babies for years after the sale.

This is partly why I'm tentative about my aspirations to breed on a small scale at some point..

I purely want to breed one, maybe two snakes per year or every other year just out of the interest/love for snakes, my only "monetary" goal would be to "break even" so to speak, if possible. The only thing is I'd be so picky with who buys the snakes, I'm not sure I wouldn't end up with 20 new pets :sorry:

[exwizard]

This is partly why I'm tentative about my aspirations to breed on a small scale at some point..

I purely want to breed one, maybe two snakes per year or every other year just out of the interest/love for snakes, my only "monetary" goal would be to "break even" so to speak, if possible. The only thing is I'd be so picky with who buys the snakes, I'm not sure I wouldn't end up with 20 new pets :sorry:
Breeding snakes definitely helps to pay for the hobby and theres nothing wrong with that. I plan on breeding some of my pet snakes in the near future as well.

The guy who sold me Vanessa and Merlin has already told me that when the other pair of Macks get old enough for me to switch them off, allowing me to put Lancelot in with Vanessa, then he wants a baby from that clutch. He was impressed with how much theyve grown since I got them.

[Caylan]

This is partly why I'm tentative about my aspirations to breed on a small scale at some point..

I purely want to breed one, maybe two snakes per year or every other year just out of the interest/love for snakes, my only "monetary" goal would be to "break even" so to speak, if possible. The only thing is I'd be so picky with who buys the snakes, I'm not sure I wouldn't end up with 20 new pets :sorry:
My thoughts exactly... how many clutches per year can you do that will have proper homes available for the babies... How many breeders end up whole saling their left over stock at the end of the year to make room for the next season? I work for a breeder and I don't always like where the snakes go, but I just have to suck it up. If they didn't go, there would be no hobby... everyone would quit breeding and the only animals available would be WC imports again. BHB has like 60,000 corn snake babies every year, and I'm sure not even half of them can be accounted for a year after their sale...
How about the number of reticulated pythons produced due to large clutch size and number of genetic variations... I doubt there are that many people in the world that can care for a retic properly...
I have traded a snake now, to my boss, as it ate better at his place. Still eats over there for some reason lol. Went up 2 food sizes in 2 months, was stuck on hoppers here for a year.... I also took home runt carpet pythons when my boss offered to allow me to take a few home, and I only ever planned on keeping 2 of them... just wanted to get all 4 going before they were sold. Now I can't choose one to sell..... Luckily they are all doing awesome now depsite being the size of hatchlings almost... but these animals will be rehomed, not craiglisted to first buyer...
The mass production of snakes makes me really wonder how many are surviving, or going the way of the turtle back when they could be bought in a box. Corn snakes at $9 bucks a pop... thats a feeder price in my opinion, maybe we should stop breeding them soon lol.

[jaleely]

My snakes are my pets, and my family. IF i do decide to breed my dumeril's, and my hognoses one day, they will only be sold and advertised to people whom i think will keep them and care for them as i would.
I do not want to breed my other snakes. I don't really see a reason to, since they are pretty normal, and there are tons of normals of all species out there on the market.
There are not too many hognose....and i really adore them and would love to have babies at least once...but if i did i would probably keep them *shrug*

The dumerils were the only snakes i bought with breeding in mind. I'd like to keep captive ones available to people so imports will not be as needed or as encouraged.

I realize the rest of my hoard is going to live out their lives with me. Another reason i had to calm down on getting so many.

[exwizard]

My snakes are my pets, and my family. IF i do decide to breed my dumeril's, and my hognoses one day, they will only be sold and advertised to people whom i think will keep them and care for them as i would.
I do not want to breed my other snakes. I don't really see a reason to, since they are pretty normal, and there are tons of normals of all species out there on the market.
There are not too many hognose....and i really adore them and would love to have babies at least once...but if i did i would probably keep them *shrug*

The dumerils were the only snakes i bought with breeding in mind. I'd like to keep captive ones available to people so imports will not be as needed or as encouraged.

I realize the rest of my hoard is going to live out their lives with me. Another reason i had to calm down on getting so many.

Yeah as I said, all mine are pets as well. As far as breeding Dums are concerned, one reason they are hard to come by is that there are very few breeders willing to put up with such a long gestation period. Their exportation out of Madagascar is also highly restricted and illegal. I do have breeding plans for a few of my Dums as well but that does not take away from their "pet" status to me. Theyve always been pets. If I produce babies, either Dums, Macklots, BRBs, Carpets or Corns, they will be sold because thats the nature of breeding but I will also be very careful where they go. The snakes I currently have however are here to stay and are not nor will they ever be available for sale.

[Skumbo]

I would love to breed my black milk-snake at some point, the only issue there is finding a female i'd breed him with, and to me that snake would be more of a "breeder" than a pet, though obviously shed be a pet.

More realistically for me though, would be to breed BRB's, i'd love to have a second BRB at some point (i dont even have my first yet.. go figure!) because I got a high orange, so I could go and get one that looks a bit different and breed them. Who knows!

[Aaron_S]

...Corn snakes at $9 bucks a pop... thats a feeder price in my opinion, maybe we should stop breeding them soon lol.

Dude, feeder corns are like $3 bucks a pop. NINE?! That's crazy.

Just for the record, people do actually buy corn feeders. A lot of venomous snake babies, king cobras, for example, will only start feeding on other snakes so they buy corns. It's all apart of the hobby.

[Rogue628]

I got all of mine as pets and that's what they are. All are female except for one that I don't know the sex of yet and will probably never find out since I have no interest in breeding. If I adopt, rescue, or rehome a male, that's fine.

The only male I will get will be a retic, and only because I don't want a retic that will get as big as females get. I've always wanted a 'tic since I first saw them about 15 years ago. Hopefully I'll have one by summer :D

[millertime89]

How about the number of reticulated pythons produced due to large clutch size and number of genetic variations... I doubt there are that many people in the world that can care for a retic properly...

There's a reason a lot of the big name breeders are producing only morphs now, or moving away from normals. Normals just don't sell very well and most people want something that looks crazy. Sure some normals sell, but not in the volume that normal albinos, tigers, and sunfires do. And if you want a normal looking retic, hets and poss. hets are produced all the time. Sure there are some exceptions, but they're getting rarer.

Dude, feeder corns are like $3 bucks a pop. NINE?! That's crazy.

Just for the record, people do actually buy corn feeders. A lot of venomous snake babies, king cobras, for example, will only start feeding on other snakes so they buy corns. It's all apart of the hobby.

normal retics are another popular one because, as was pointed out above, they can have monstrous clutch sizes and lets face it, normals just aren't very popular.

[millertime89]

The only male I will get will be a retic, and only because I don't want a retic that will get as big as females get. I've always wanted a 'tic since I first saw them about 15 years ago. Hopefully I'll have one by summer :D

dwarfs are your answer

[DragonsEye]

DJust for the record, people do actually buy corn feeders. A lot of venomous snake babies, king cobras, for example, will only start feeding on other snakes so they buy corns. It's all apart of the hobby.

Coral snakes are a good example of obligate snake eaters. The folks I've chatted with who worked with them commented that it is pretty much impossible to get them to eat anything else.

[Norm66]

Our snakes are our pets and will always be with us. With all the legal insanity going on we've pretty much decided we won't be breeding (which bums me out because that was the only way I was ever going to get some of the multi-morph BPs I kind of have my heart set on).

When we adopted our first BP, Sidney and our Burm, Malaki it was with the understanding that if we ever had to get rid of them we would return them to our friend Shannon who rescued them to begin with.

[cute_snakeyface]

Never had to let any of my pets go. Except one cat...but he was too goddamned wild to be a house cat. He was miserable. :\ It was hard for us to just let him go, especially since we paid a lot of money that we didn't have to have one of his front legs amputated. Poor thing was mangled!

I cried when I met that kitty because he was broken and abandoned, but like I said, he was miserable trying to be a house cat.

I've always kept my pets until death. My parents house has three dogs, a parrotlet, and (tragically) three Pigmy goats. I intend to bury my current snake and cat among them when they perish. On another note...my grandparents want to have their ashes scattered on that property, as well...

[BarelyBreathing]

I've only really let a few animals go, and I know where all of them are now. They will be there for the duration of their lives, otherwise they come back to me.

A sold/traded my entire ball python collection. They all went to homes with breeders who share my same philosophy of pet first, breeder last.

I had to give up my dart frogs when my air conditioning went out one summer. They live with a friend now who had agreed that any time we ask, we will get them back. Our air is fixed,.so we may do that, but he's pretty fond of them, so we may just get new darts.

The third was a bearded dragon we got for our studio. One of my employees fell in love with her and asked to buy her. I just let her have her.

Edit: My brother has a few of my monitors on breeding loan, but they are still mine and will eventually come back to me. I don't really count that, either, because he's family.

[BarelyBreathing]

Other than that, my animals stay with me forever.

[exwizard]

Other than that, my animals stay with me forever.

Hear, hear. :)

[Gungirl]

I think of my snakes like I think of my dogs, birds and others. If I purchase them I promise them safety and good care. I will only re-home if I have no other choice. I did re-home 1 snake but I re-homed it to a good friend that is taking GREAT care of it. I would not have given it to anyone else.

[exwizard]

Our snakes are our pets and will always be with us. With all the legal insanity going on we've pretty much decided we won't be breeding (which bums me out because that was the only way I was ever going to get some of the multi-morph BPs I kind of have my heart set on).

When we adopted our first BP, Sidney and our Burm, Malaki it was with the understanding that if we ever had to get rid of them we would return them to our friend Shannon who rescued them to begin with.

Never had to let any of my pets go. Except one cat...but he was too goddamned wild to be a house cat. He was miserable. :\ It was hard for us to just let him go, especially since we paid a lot of money that we didn't have to have one of his front legs amputated. Poor thing was mangled!

I cried when I met that kitty because he was broken and abandoned, but like I said, he was miserable trying to be a house cat.

I've always kept my pets until death. My parents house has three dogs, a parrotlet, and (tragically) three Pigmy goats. I intend to bury my current snake and cat among them when they perish. On another note...my grandparents want to have their ashes scattered on that property, as well...

I've only really let a few animals go, and I know where all of them are now. They will be there for the duration of their lives, otherwise they come back to me.

A sold/traded my entire ball python collection. They all went to homes with breeders who share my same philosophy of pet first, breeder last.

I had to give up my dart frogs when my air conditioning went out one summer. They live with a friend now who had agreed that any time we ask, we will get them back. Our air is fixed,.so we may do that, but he's pretty fond of them, so we may just get new darts.

The third was a bearded dragon we got for our studio. One of my employees fell in love with her and asked to buy her. I just let her have her.

Edit: My brother has a few of my monitors on breeding loan, but they are still mine and will eventually come back to me. I don't really count that, either, because he's family.

Yeah Im with you guys when it comes to having to let pets go. If I can possibly help it, I will never do that because once theyre out of my hands, I have no more control over where they go and I cant bear that. Much easier to just keep them.

Norm, theyre not going to ban your burm, the only restriction you will see is that you woint be able to legally cross state lines with him. Also breeders and pets are not necessarily mutually exclusive. A snake or any other animal can be "both and". :)

[millertime89]

I was planning on re-homing my BP, he came to me from a friend and I'm pretty sure I'm the 3rd owner. I've still got the add up but if nobody wants him I'm perfectly happy with him and he'll have a home with me forever.

[Norm66]

Norm, theyre not going to ban your burm, the only restriction you will see is that you woint be able to legally cross state lines with him. Also breeders and pets are not necessarily mutually exclusive. A snake or any other animal can be "both and". :)

I understand the Lacey Act thing about the Burms. But WV has a bill in the works that will effect any pet except dogs & cats making it impossible for me to breed (or even legally keep the ones I have since it'll be financially impossible to do everything they will demand).

[CDN_Blood]

I'm in it for life. As with every pet I have had. I get very upset when I hear about this stuff. Or the I traded a snake or whatever. Would you trade a kid away? Come on. I actualy don't even like the term " collection" when refering to ones "pets".
BUT
If something happened and I had to let them go I certainly wouldn't be selling them. A rehome is that. If they want to pay you fine. If you trust them and love your animal you will give it to them. I will say I have never had this happen so I truly can't say I know what its like but thats how I feel from this side.

I echo this sentiment exactly. I actually keep a list of constant traders/sellers as well as hybridizers and other irresponsibles in my area for my own personal use to ensure none of them get through to me or try to infiltrate my tight-knit circle of responsible herp-type friends.