Genetic thinking, and breeding help.

[DeesBalls]

Okay... i have been on worldofballpythons.com for about 2 hrs now looking...
im thinking of breeding so i was looking at the 2 hets i have, male het albino %50 HET PIED, and a het albino female, both are 100% het albino..

my male is het albino, %50 het pied and my female is het albino.

im having trouble trying to incoorperate the %50 het pied into the breeding... im using world of ball python, that does not give you an option to put in %'s...

so... could i get a male het pied and breed the 2 males to my female het albino?

can 2 males be bred to 1 female?

that would give me 100% het albino male, %50 ph pied AND a 100% het pied to a het albino female....

questions:
can i breed 2 or 3 males to 1 female
can i breed different males, to different females in the same season


for personal reasons i do NOT want to get an albino het pied for this.. my main goal i said is to produce my own albino, as they are my favorite morph... breeding wise i want to produce an albino pied... so buying a albino het pied would be a great idea for that, it will take away from my main goal.

i did just see prices for albino pied, there is a m and f on kingsnake classified and they were listed as, 2011 Albino Piebalds:
Male... $17,500
Female... $11,000

directly copied from the ad^^
not sure why the male is more...??

thanks for all the help, this will be my main thread for all breeding questios...

[KORBIN5895]

A male can breed multiple females is one reason for higher priced males.

[DeesBalls]

A male can breed multiple females is one reason for higher priced males.

so theroetically i could breed:

het albino %50 ph pied MALE het abino FEMALE
het pied MALE ---------->


not that there is a reason to breed the het pied to a het albino, just using it for an example.

[Jenn_06]

when the snakes are young the male will cost more because you can breed the males earlier then the young females.

[DeesBalls]

when the snakes are young the male will cost more because you can breed the males earlier then the young females.

ohh okay, thanks!

what is the best age/wieght to breed for males and females?

[Jenn_06]

i think for males is 500g and about a year old and females is 1500g(smallest you should go) 2 to 3 years old.

im breeding my girl and right now she is 1745g and 3 years old

[DeesBalls]

So far, im thinking of getting:

1.1 het pied
0.1 pastel

then i will get a mojave, spider, cinny...

not sure if i will get males or females of those though, probably female.

[DeesBalls]

i think for males is 500g and about a year old and females is 1500g(smallest you should go) 2 to 3 years old.

im breeding my girl and right now she is 1745g and 3 years old

thanks, i didnt realize that the females had to be that old... maybe instead of babies, i should get some already grown?

[Jenn_06]

yeah if you get babies you are going to have to wait 2 years to breed,breeding them at a young age can kill your BP. might want to look around and find some that about about 900g you might miss this years season but you have time to get them to size for next season.

[DeesBalls]

i will look around... do you konw any good places to buy from? ive been cruising kingsnake all day found some good deals, i think, but hard to trust online buying...

cant make it to the expo i go to till April... :(

i dont look to start breeding anytime soon any way, probably 1-2 yrs any ways... need to learn all i can, and get my new racks built, and new reptile room built in my basement.. so im just doing research and all that now.

[Jenn_06]

i like to buy from Ssscales.com he is a great guy but sells out fast and RoyalConstrictorDesigns.com

[DeesBalls]

i like to buy from Ssscales.com he is a great guy but sells out fast and RoyalConstrictorDesigns.com

Thanks so much! i am off to go check them out!

[beardeds4life]

for your original question there is a very small chance that the babies will be het pied so to cover you you should sell the babies for 50% het pied. Otherwise if someone does NOT want a pied then you will be screwed and get yourself a bad reputation

[KORBIN5895]

for your original question there is a very small chance that the babies will be het pied so to cover you you should sell the babies for 50% het pied. Otherwise if someone does NOT want a pied then you will be screwed and get yourself a bad reputation

Considering the male is fifty percent het pied and obviously not proven I would label them as any percentage of het pied. That's just asking for trouble.

[DeesBalls]

I'm getting a her pied female to breed him to too... but I might also get a her pied male, they are cheap so I will have a set of her albinos, and a set of her pied.... this way I don't have to take into account for the %50 Ph poet male...

[beardeds4life]

Considering the male is fifty percent het pied and obviously not proven I would label them as any percentage of het pied. That's just asking for trouble.

you mean wouldn't? Even if the male is unproven that does not mena he is not het pied so then the babies could be het pied.

[KORBIN5895]

you mean wouldn't? Even if the male is unproven that does not mena he is not het pied so then the babies could be het pied.

Yeah I meant to say would not.

So you feel it ethical to say they are 50% het pied when you don't even know the male is?

[KORBIN5895]

I'm getting a her pied female to breed him to too... but I might also get a her pied male, they are cheap so I will have a set of her albinos, and a set of her pied.... this way I don't have to take into account for the %50 Ph poet male...

Guaranteed hets only pass their het gene to half of the babies so you will still produce a percentage that are het. What exactly are the genetics you are looking at?

[DeesBalls]

i am getting a male and female 100% het pieds...

when i breed my het albinos together, i probably wont even mention the male as 50% ph pied, unless he ends up proving out for me

as for the 2 het pied im getting, your saying all the babies wont have the het gene in them? only 1/2?...

this is getting confusing :(

so het M and het F have say 4 babies... (ill use albino for this example)
1/4 normal
2/4het albino
1/4 albino...

that was taken right off of world of ball pythons...

now is there any way for them to have say... all 4 babies albino (or whatever the het gene is?) is there any way to have all normals? how can i tell normals from hets?

[Maclyal]

1/4 normal
2/4 Het.
1/4 Pied or albino (which ever you are working with is correct)

however you better know what the markers are to tell Het. from normal.

and yes mother nature can give all of any one of those 3.
shes a pain sometimes.

[DeesBalls]

1/4 normal
2/4 Het.
1/4 Pied or albino (which ever you are working with is correct)

however you better know what the markers are to tell Het. from normal.

and yes mother nature can give all of any one of those 3.
shes a pain sometimes.

Thanks, that clears everything up...


now.. another one for ya...

i read a normal clutch is 5-7 eggs (could be wrong, it was off a google site..)

so theroetically what if i get 7 eggs,... then its obviously not as easy as 1/4,1/4,2/4 ... would i just wait and see what i got, and look for markers to determin what the hets are?

[Maclyal]

no matter what you breed togather, it could be a crap shoot.
I have heard of people breeding 2 full blooded Axanthics to one another
& ending up with a clutch of nothing but normals.

so as I said, Mother natures sense of humor can bite the big one.

I always just wait & see what I get & as long as they are all
healthy, I consider it a good clutch.

[DeesBalls]

no matter what you breed togather, it could be a crap shoot.
I have heard of people breeding 2 full blooded Axanthics to one another
& ending up with a clutch of nothing but normals.

so as I said, Mother natures sense of humor can bite the big one.

I always just wait & see what I get & as long as they are all
healthy, I consider it a good clutch.

yea, healthy will trump albinos/pieds any day..

we will just see, ill get a few snakes and get them to size for now, any other questsions i will be posting though, so probably in 20 min. LOL

[pythons9991]

it is always better to buy hatchlings and raise them yourself for breeding than to try and buy adult snakes and take a shortcut cause you dont know the history of the snake you are buying, you cant tell hets from normals thats why even if you have 2 hets and two normals you don't know which are which until they are proven out any offspring that arent the homozygnous form of the morph (visual albino for example) will be 66% hets from a 100% to 100% het pairings

[Aaron_S]

no matter what you breed togather, it could be a crap shoot.
I have heard of people breeding 2 full blooded Axanthics to one another
& ending up with a clutch of nothing but normals...

Did one or both of these snakes prove out to produce axanthics in later clutches?If not then they were never axanthics, just really washed out normals, which is what adult axanthics look like. Honestly, 2 axanthics will only produce axanthics, no way to get a normal unless they were hets.

To the OP. Just buy pieds...or include an actual pied in your breedings with any het as then at the very least you know ALL the babies will be 100% het. You seem very confused by genetics and this way ensures that you won't be selling anything for what it isn't.

[Maclyal]

[quote=Aaron_S;689759]Did one or both of these snakes prove out to produce axanthics in later clutches?If not then they were never axanthics, just really washed out normals, which is what adult axanthics look like. Honestly, 2 axanthics will only produce axanthics, no way to get a normal unless they were hets.

yes they did prove out with other partners.
and yes it is possible to get nothing but normals.
just another of mother natures jokes on us.

these belong to a big reputable long time breeder here in colorado,
so it's not a case of a rooky or someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

[DeesBalls]

Okay, so over the last few days, i have been living on world of bp's... i found out that just some base morphs can produce some cool babies.. for example pastels can be used for alot of interesting morphs...

super pastels, pewter, pastave, black pewter, bumble bee, and lesser pastel.. those are JUST the ones i am looking at. since pastels are such a versitale morph, should i get a say, 2 males, so i can breed them to all females? and get all other morphs females, so:

2.0.0 pastel
0.1.0 cinnamon, spider, mojave, pastel, lesser, spider?

or should i mix it up better??

these will be seperate from my albino/pied stuff i just got, those are going to be for me.. (unless i get super lucky and get something like albino pied or something, then ill prolly sell)

basicly... what ration of boy girl should i have? im not worried about needing to get say... 14 snakes, so sould i do 7.7, 2.12 or what???

also, all or world of ball pythons do everything out of 4.. (1/4.1/4.1/4.1/4 ect...) what if i have a clutch of... 5 eggs? then how would my precentages work?

thanks again guys for all help!!

[youngster]

also, all or world of ball pythons do everything out of 4.. (1/4.1/4.1/4.1/4 ect...) what if i have a clutch of... 5 eggs? then how would my precentages work?

thanks again guys for all help!!

then it would just be 1/4 of 5.


0.25 x 5 = 1.25

[Skumbo]

these videos help if you need a basic understanding of breeding genetics:

WVCz-MI9mmo
S7o6aampzaA
3aUKV-99X54
o0Cl7I3KSGs


hope it helps!


as for getting everything out of four, the reason is because of the tables used above, they're a basic genetics tool. you could have 500 hatchlings but they'll all still have the same % chances out of "four or 16" to be whatever morph, het, etc. depending on what youre combining

[DeesBalls]

then it would just be 1/4 of 5.


0.25 x 5 = 1.25

i see. that makes sense.


as to the videos, i will watch them, i understand the punnett squares. and i am getting this whole thing down slowly.

[Skumbo]

i see. that makes sense.


as to the videos, i will watch them, i understand the punnett squares. and i am getting this whole thing down slowly.

Yup! its just good to have stuff reinforced though :D

Just think of every individual of having ___% chance to become something.

So say you breed an albino (bb) to a 100% het albino (Bb), you'll get 50% chance of a het albino and 50% chance of an albino.

You could get 100% albinos you could get 100% hets, you could get any mix in between..

so instead of looking at "a clutch of 5 has a ___ chance of ___" just look at it as each individual hatchling has a 50% (or whatever) chance of albino and 50% chance of being a 100% het for albino (since with a bb you wont end up with any normals)

I hope that wasn't confusing..

basically you just have no idea exactly how many you will get or the combination of morphs, hets, etc.

You could combine two 100% hets and get all normals if you're really unlucky, its all just % chances on individual snakes

[DeesBalls]

Yup! its just good to have stuff reinforced though :D

Just think of every individual of having ___% chance to become something.

So say you breed an albino (bb) to a 100% het albino (Bb), you'll get 50% chance of a het albino and 50% chance of an albino.

You could get 100% albinos you could get 100% hets, you could get any mix in between..

so instead of looking at "a clutch of 5 has a ___ chance of ___" just look at it as each individual hatchling has a 50% (or whatever) chance of albino and 50% chance of being a 100% het for albino (since with a bb you wont end up with any normals)

I hope that wasn't confusing..

basically you just have no idea exactly how many you will get or the combination of morphs, hets, etc.

You could combine two 100% hets and get all normals if you're really unlucky, its all just % chances on individual snakes

that really sums it up... i understand the genetics, the percentages are really throwing me off. Say i pair a Pastel, and Mojave.. since they are both dominate, i will get pastels, mojaves, normal or pastaves? each egg having a %25 chance of being either one of the above..

i hope i got that right, i could be way off... i think i am thinking too much into it. lol



NEW TOPIC:

here are a list of what morphs i am getting
pastel
mojave
spider
cinnamon
lesser
black pastel


i dont know what ration of male to female i should get though? like said b4, i was thinking of getting a few male pastels, since they make some cool stuff.. so i can breed 2 males to all females... or could i just use 1 male and breed to like... 4-5 females?

should iget ALL females, and just use 2 total males ?

this is what i really dont understand.