Hostility towards veterinarians

[insignia100]

So, maybe I'm going to make an *** out of myself for this post, but I've noticed a hostility towards the veterinary profession by a lot of people (not this forum... just in general, mainly dog and cat owners since that is who I have dealt with the most). I was just curious if you all could give me some insight on why this hostility might exist?

[Rogue628]

I've never personally noticed hostilities towards vets and I used to be a vet tech long time ago. But maybe things have changed.

The only issue I have with some vets (mainly in my area) is they say they treat all animals but don't know anything about snakes. Even the vet I worked for treated gerbils, ferrets, and birds....all considered exotics...but didn't have a clue about reptiles. Seems to be the case with the vets here.

The only exception is Doc, the zoo vet, but I don't think he no longer has an office since he's always at the zoo. :(

[insignia100]

Yea, our education is really lacking in reptile medicine, but I can't really blame the schools. They only have so much time to teach us mountains of information, so they have to choose between interests and what is economically viable. For instance, there is almost no money in reptile medicine compared to small animal (though I know there are reptile vets out there that make a good living). As an example, we get about as much reptile medicine class time as we do swine... about a week and a half. Unfortunately there's just more money in small animals, equine (GEEZ, there's a ton of money in equine if you know your stuff and get a job in a good location), and food animal.

[Rogue628]

True, but it has to start somewhere right? Isn't that how most human doctors start in general medicine? I know there's specialist now that make tons of money but before they specialized, there wasn't any money in it. Even if a vet would take more interest in animals he can possibly see aside from cats, dogs, popular exotics, equine, and food animals, he would eventual get more clients who have those animals. It would be a slow process but would pay off in the end, I think.

[BarelyBreathing]

I actually love my vets! They're really great (both my mammal and reptile vets). I do understand the hostility though, because I have often seen people post on other forums about how they took their reptile to their cat vet and the cat vet misdiagnosed and subsequently killed their reptile.

[insignia100]

True, but it has to start somewhere right? Isn't that how most human doctors start in general medicine? I know there's specialist now that make tons of money but before they specialized, there wasn't any money in it. Even if a vet would take more interest in animals he can possibly see aside from cats, dogs, popular exotics, equine, and food animals, he would eventual get more clients who have those animals. It would be a slow process but would pay off in the end, I think.

Absolutely, and thats one of the reasons I'm so interested in reptile medicine. There may not be a big enough market to support just seeing reptile patients, but I know back home in WV there were plenty of opportunities to see reptile patients if doctors would just show the interest. You know, when I graduate I won't get a diploma that says "dog and cat doctor", it will say doctor of veterinary medicine, which includes ALL animals (even if that means you have to look something up in a text book and play the trial and error game sometimes).

[insignia100]

I actually love my vets! They're really great (both my mammal and reptile vets). I do understand the hostility though, because I have often seen people post on other forums about how they took their reptile to their cat vet and the cat vet misdiagnosed and subsequently killed their reptile.

Well, one of the most common misconceptions I've seen is that people assume our salaries are on par with human doctors (even though my debt WILL be). Trust me, I'm not doing this for the money. Average starting salary is around $60,000, but by the time you figure that half of that will be going to pay off my $250,000 student loans (which is what I will owe including interest by the time it is paid off)... it certainly is not as lucrative as some might think.

[Rogue628]

I actually love my vets! They're really great (both my mammal and reptile vets). I do understand the hostility though, because I have often seen people post on other forums about how they took their reptile to their cat vet and the cat vet misdiagnosed and subsequently killed their reptile.

I can understand that to a certain extent. If you do not have a reptile vet in your area and you have no choice but to take them to a normal vet, then you must understand that there's a chance of misdiagnosis. You can't really blame the vet (much), but the circumstances and environment. That's why I work so hard to make sure my animals get the best husbandry I can provide. I'm extremely OCD about my animals, sometimes to the point of doing cage cleanings twice a day. As soon as I notice something that needs to be cleaned up, I clean their cages completely, not just spot clean. I keep a constant vigil on their heat and humidity, especially lately since the weather can't decide if it's wants to be hot or cold and it keeps screwing with my humidity and room temps. :angry:

Insignia, what are your vet plans once you get licensed?

[BarelyBreathing]

Well, one of the most common misconceptions I've seen is that people assume our salaries are on par with human doctors (even though my debt WILL be). Trust me, I'm not doing this for the money. Average starting salary is around $60,000, but by the time you figure that half of that will be going to pay off my $250,000 student loans (which is what I will owe including interest by the time it is paid off)... it certainly is not as lucrative as some might think.

Huh? I didn't say anything about money...

[insignia100]

Huh? I didn't say anything about money...

Sorry, I've got bovine neonatal diarrhea on the brain... I think I was just pointing out something... I think. I also think I need sleep. ;)

[Trent]

I love my vet as well,but the price for vet care has gone way up.Might have something to do with as well.

[insignia100]

Insignia, what are your vet plans once you get licensed?

Either back home in WV, Tennessee, or possibly Virginia... but honestly, it will probably be wherever I can find a job (with the option of moving later).

[BarelyBreathing]

Sorry, I've got bovine neonatal diarrhea on the brain...


Mmm, milkshakes for everybody!!!

[insignia100]

Mmm, milkshakes for everybody!!!

Congrats, you get the first one!

[beardeds4life]

I love my vet as well,but the price for vet care has gone way up.Might have something to do with as well.

Ya that is what I was thinking. People hate people who charge them money.

[Strutter769]

You know, when I graduate I won't get a diploma that says "dog and cat doctor", it will say doctor of veterinary medicine, which includes ALL animals (even if that means you have to look something up in a text book and play the trial and error game sometimes).

Great attitude to have! I commend you for that. There's one reptile vet in the area that I know of and he's great. Then I have a more economical vet for my more domesticated pets. He's an odd one! Super strange. He will talk to you for as long as you let him, about the CRAZIEST stuff, but he's very thorough strangest of all is his OBVIOUS fear of dogs. All dogs.

Not sure who we'd see for a sick chicken if needed.

[Rogue628]

Either back home in WV, Tennessee, or possibly Virginia... but honestly, it will probably be wherever I can find a job (with the option of moving later).


I meant what are your plans as a vet? Just strictly domestics or are you going to try to do some reptile specialization as well?

[shaunyboy]

So, maybe I'm going to make an *** out of myself for this post, but I've noticed a hostility towards the veterinary profession by a lot of people (not this forum... just in general, mainly dog and cat owners since that is who I have dealt with the most). I was just curious if you all could give me some insight on why this hostility might exist?

as far as hostility re dog and cat owners,i can't explain, but.....

imo,there is some hostility in the reptile keeping world towards some vets

i've seen a lot of people say they took reptiles to a vet,for the vet to TRY and treat it,even though he has NO reptile experience.

this has resuted in snakes getting worse or even dieng

imo,its a case of the snake keeper thinking.....

why could the vet not have just said " i have no reptile experience,so would rather you found a more suitable reptile vet ",or they could even reccomend another vet if they know one

but to just plod on using educated guess work,having had no experience with the animal in question,imo is wrong and can lead to anomosity towards some vets

as said i've read a few horror storys regards vetenary treatments from reptile inexperienced/unqualified vets

re cats and dogs
i've never had any problems regards vets,when i kept dogs (most of my life)

cheers shaun

[Snakefood]

Not sure who we'd see for a sick chicken if needed.

The axe!!!!!!

[insignia100]

I meant what are your plans as a vet? Just strictly domestics or are you going to try to do some reptile specialization as well?

Oh, I'm definitely planning on doing as much reptile work as I can.

[millertime89]

You suck! I want a milkshake now...
Shaun hit the nail on the head from what I've read. I would rather be told by the vet "this is out of my area of expertise, here's the number for a herp vet" and have to drive out of my way than hear "I think its this, lets try this" and end up with a dead animal.

[KORBIN5895]

. You know, when I graduate I won't get a diploma that says "dog and cat doctor", it will say doctor of veterinary medicine, which includes ALL animals (even if that means you have to look something up in a text book and play the trial and error game sometimes).

@Kyle
You don't feel this is acceptable?

[insignia100]

@Kyle
You don't feel this is acceptable?

I feel it is acceptable under certain circumstances. For instance, back home there are NO reptile vets. If someone brought in a snake, a doctor would either have to turn them down outright or tell them that they can try their best even though they don't know a whole lot about reptiles (which I am in full agreement with you all on this one). I really don't think it is acceptable to treat an animal you don't know much about without full disclosure... you wouldn't/shouldn't see a small animal vet treating a horse without telling the owner the last time they touched a horse was in vet school.

[Will0W783]

My veterinarian is an amazing doctor. He attends conferences on reptile medicine, and is up-to-date on the latest care. He once even repaired a broken wing on a queen bee (dont' ask me how he did it, but he has pictures of a tiny tiny sling on the wing). I have been to reptile vets in the past that were a joke, but I trust my current vet completely.

Honestly, it is rare to find a vet that is skilled in treating reptiles, but if you can find a good one, keep that vet.

[infernalis]

I too love my vets... My herp vet is top notch, and my dog/cat vet is too.

Only hostility I have ever seen is toward non herp vets taking on herps and causing more harm than good.

[Jay]

I am Limited to vets who specialize in my area. The last Vet I took a young iguana showing early sings of mbd, he said I should get him on a stable diet of collard greens, broccoli, spinach carrots and strawberry. Lucky enough I called a local reptile store and they directed me to a vet in ottowa who specializes in herps. He was so kind and knowledgable we talked on the phone for an hour, no charge.

[BarelyBreathing]

You suck! I want a milkshake now...


I was totally drinking a chocolate milk shake when I read that. I put it down. Lol.


It's one thing when a vet who sees mammals all the time takes a look at a reptile, say's they aren't sure, and looks it up, makes a few phone calls, and legitimately puts effort into doing it right. It's a totally different story when they treat a leopard gecko like a cat without even checking to see if those medications can be given to a reptile.

[KORBIN5895]

My local herp "specialist " didn't even know what I meant when I asked if they could probe my snake. The vet told me to come in and when I called back to set an appointment he wasn't there so the secretary asked a the assistant how long a probing procedure was and the vet tech said they didn't probe. When they finally figured it all out they told me they couldn't do it.

[Skumbo]

I certainly believe its more the vet trying to treat the animal and the person trusting them because they're a vet, then turn out it was the wrong thing and the pet dies or gets worse because of the misdiagnosis. Theres a thread going right now about someone who had their vet tell them to inject into the tail of the snake (i didn't know this, but someone explained why that wont do anything good for the snake) The fact that the vet TRIED to do something other than saying "oh i don't know about this, let me refer you to reptile vet" is HORRIBLE and they should have their licence taken away.

Working as a personal trainer, if somebody comes to me and admits they have recently had a heart attack and wanted "to get in shape" I will refer them to a physical therapist because despite me knowing how MI's affect the body physiologically, that isn't my specialty and I may miss something little that I'm not used to dealing with.


edit: I'm happy I live only 2 hours north of boston, If i ever have an issue (my brother live in boston so i can just stay there) I can go down to Angell Animal Center, it looks like a freaking 5 star hotel with how clean it is, and they have different vets for each type of animal (avian doctors, snake/lizard doctors, etc etc) I wish human hospitals were that well run :o

[Wolfus_305]

Hmmm Well my mom and I have never been hostile towards the vet or the staff but we have had discussions amongst ourselves on the long car ride home.

I think it's because my mom has been going to the same vet since she was 18, he was very good, very dedicated and knowledgeable and he would really try to help you out with expensive surgeries etc

He retired a couple years ago, only does major surgeries now and he sold his practice. since then the other 2 vets that we liked have left and the quality of reception service has gone way down. We were seeing another vet but really didn't agree with some of the things he was saying. he was very academically smart but he was not a very good listener and that's what we really needed. He was fixated on one thing that we didn't think at all was related to the other symptom and two days later we had to put the cat down. it was very hard on all of us since it was so sudden and it was made worse when we got home from the vet as dad was getting home from work and he said "where's the cat?". Then my sister's kitten had gooey looking eyes so when he went for shots mom asked a different vet there specifically about his eyes, said there was nothing wrong with them. Later when he saw the retired vet (to be fixed as he is a special needs kitty) the retired vet took 1 look at his eyes and immediately (without prompting from mom) said he had an infection and prescribed medicine.

We tried going to other practices that are closer to our house but never like them. our german shepherd was limping and when it wasn't getting better we took him to a nearby vet since we didn't want to go 2 hours to find out he just sprained something and it'll get better. anyways this vet said it was some big huge issue with his knee and he'd need 8 xrays and he doesn't work on big dogs so he would have to bring in a specialist to do the surgery and it would be like $6000 which we cannot afford. Then we went for a second opinion at our far away vet and he had just sprained something and got prescribed aspirin of some kind.

I think it is more frustration than hostility, people care for their animals and when they can't get answers or are sent running all over or spending thousands of dollars unnecessarily it doesn't go over well

[insignia100]

Thanks everyone, I've gotten a lot of good feedback that I can hopefully use when I get out into practice.

I think it is more frustration than hostility, people care for their animals and when they can't get answers or are sent running all over or spending thousands of dollars unnecessarily it doesn't go over well

One thing that I think is difficult for many people to understand is that just because a certain test doesn't result in a diagnosis it doesn't mean that it was unnecessary. For instance, say your German Shepherd had a hip problem. They are very prone to hip dysplasia, which requires radiographs. If the x-rays do not reveal any problems with the hips and the diagnosis was a sprain, does that mean the x-rays were unnecessary?

[Wolfus_305]

One thing that I think is difficult for many people to understand is that just because a certain test doesn't result in a diagnosis it doesn't mean that it was unnecessary. For instance, say your German Shepherd had a hip problem. They are very prone to hip dysplasia, which requires radiographs. If the x-rays do not reveal any problems with the hips and the diagnosis was a sprain, does that mean the x-rays were unnecessary?

His hips are fine though. he has certified hips and even when he walked the vet said his hips are fine, felt his hips and they are fine. if he had said "it's his ankle or his knee and we need xrays because i think it's more than a sprain" that wouldn't have been unnecessary and we would have been happy to rule out any major problems.

Spending $6000 for a specialist to come into a different vets office to perform a major knee surgery that wasn't needed because it was a sprain and not whatever long word the other vet used, that's unnecessary.

I see it kind of like doctors. I have had an unresolved health issue for two years. The MRI didn't show anything but that's a good thing because it ruled out something serious that could have been causing my symptoms. so it was necessary to check for something, even though it ended up showing nothing. However, at the same time I always get second opinions. I send all my test results and specialist reports to my family doctor at home and to my university doctor and to all the other specialist who want the new reports from the new tests.

We always get second opinions for our animals if it is something that is going to be a major operation for them or cost a ton of money. Why put them through something that isn't necessary, right?

[exwizard]

We're lucky to have Dr Harmon and the Oaks Vet Clinic here is Des Moines. Anytime we have a problem, thats where we go. Just so you know Indignia, Ive never heard of hostility toward vets in general until you asked about it in this thread. Im thinking that if the vet knows what hes doing, hes going to have satisfied customers. :)

[Aaron_S]

I think it's based on a lot of what people have already said. Great vets are difficult to find, especially with reptiles. I also believe it has to do with pricing. In regards to reptiles, as shaunyboy said some people don't being told this and that will help but it doesn't and being charged as if it would! I think if a vet wants to learn on your reptile, they should only get paid for the cost of supplies as they are getting a FREE education about your reptile and the cost of YOU losing YOUR pet.

I also know from hearing from a number of vet techs that the vet that has/is employ them will do tests that don't matter just to UP the charges on the bill. I also know vets that will say do a procedure for 2000 bucks whereas one an hour or two away will do it for 200. There's no real regulation and I think there should be.

Lastly, a vet can say they tried to do tests and whatever else and never do on your reptile and then just charge you like crazy. Doesn't seem to be any repercussions to a vets work.

[insignia100]

Well, I know it happens, but I can say I've never worked for a veterinarian that will just tack on random tests to increase the bill. I have heard that Banfield commonly does this, though. And it is of course extremely unethical.

Interestingly enough, vets that I've worked for will quite commonly take on teaching cases in order to teach other doctors new techniques, etc. They will only charge for technicians' time, supplies, and anesthesia (making, say, a $1000 surgery run $400ish).

[KORBIN5895]

Well, I know it happens, but I can say I've never worked for a veterinarian that will just tack on random tests to increase the bill. I have heard that Banfield commonly does this, though. And it is of course extremely unethical.

Interestingly enough, vets that I've worked for will quite commonly take on teaching cases in order to teach other doctors new techniques, etc. They will only charge for technicians' time, supplies, and anesthesia (making, say, a $1000 surgery run $400ish).

Dropping names like that is kinda frowned upon......

[insignia100]

Dropping names like that is kinda frowned upon......

I guess I figured it wasn't an issue since the "name" isn't a reptile breeder or other industry business, especially since the forum rules mention that this site isn't a BOI, etc. Oh well, if a mod could edit my post that would be great, since I cannot edit mine now.

I do wonder, would anyone object to a negative comment about Walmart's business practices? Oh well, I digress.

[KORBIN5895]

Its frowned upon not against the rules. We usually handle the negative comments about people through pm. We don't want this place to look like its filled with a bunch of loud mouth scum bags. That's why we keep the limit at two. Me and dumb like our job so good luck stealing it.

Oh. The two cantankerous old goats position is also filled. ( Mykee, Aaron. I got your backs.)

[insignia100]

Its frowned upon not against the rules. We usually handle the negative comments about people through pm. We don't want this place to look like its filled with a bunch of loud mouth scum bags. That's why we keep the limit at two. Me and dumb like our job so good luck stealing it.

Oh. The two cantankerous old goats position is also filled. ( Mykee, Aaron. I got your backs.)

Dang, well what about Forum Curmudgeon? Any chance that spot will be open soon? :yes:

[jaleely]

My irritation with vets, is simply that I have not met one who wouldn't just "try" things, rather than refer to me to someone who actually knew.
I also have irritation with the type of animal doctors that see animals as only pets, and act like treating them is not as important to me as treating a human. In so saying, they also seem to throw you instantly into the "crazy cat lady" scenario and think you will pay and arm and a leg for all kinds of random things.

I hate that you have to look things up yourself first, to seem knowledgeable, and once you show that you are....you seem to get different answers, diagnosis, and treatment.

Also, I'd like to know one thing. Why do most vets reccomend Hills Science Diet or Royal Canin for dog and cat food? There is even a perscription food out, in Royal Canin. The ingredients are BAD. They are filler, they are atractants and horrible unhealthy ingredients. What is the secret monopoly club that is going on that vets would reccomend this horrible food to people and actually be able to go home and sleep at night? It clearly says the first ingredient is by-product, and the second is corn meal. Really? Does that sound healthy? Does that sound like something a person who is trusted, should be telling people to feed their sick, or NOT sick animal?
Does $60 for a 15lb bag of vet perscription Filler food, sound reasonable, when I can get a $38 30lb bag of grain free, good ingredient dog food instead? I don't know how many people I've talked to who have had a vet reccomend hyperallergenic specialty perscription food and treats for their pet, specifcally dogs, when I just did some simple research and home tests (as in, give the dog a simple diet and introduce new foods to see the reaction) and found my dog was allergic to chicken, and beef. My other dog has indigestion when she eats wheat.
Guess what? Just buy dog food that doesn't have that in it. NO expensive shots, no specialty food.

We spent over $800 dollars trying to cure an infection in my beagle's ear. It lasted for almost TWO years, and she even went through a "flush" while under anesthesia. Nothing worked....until one day we realized that all the moisture removing treatments the vet was doing, including randomly perscribing her fungul treatment, as well as bacterial, after an inconclusive test....were pointless.
We put FOOT POWDER in her ear, and she's not had a problem since. A $4.95 bottle of foot powder.

The last time she went to the vet, we told them what we did and they acted like we were geniuses. Oh how clever we were! Now, do you want some more shots for your dog? We don't have such and such disease in the area here, but you should get her a shot anyway.

Last time i took my basset in because he had something wrong with his eye...I was told it was conjunctivitis...pink eye...i looked up the symptoms there in the office and disagreed. Sure enough, it turned out to be allergies. HOwever, I had to be BULLIED into hearing about how it COULD be a sticker in his eye...how one time the vet had a dog that had a sticker behind the third eyelid and it was a horrible trauma, etc. I NEEDED to have her look behind there.
THere was no redness, no swelling, no anything but some sticky eye goop. No extra tears, nothing. So she told me all this worriesome stuff, and because i love him more than anything, of course i was like "save my dog" and she was "Gracious" enough to charge me only for "one eye" because they only treated one and didn't find anything.
HOw sweet.

At the same time, i had brought in one of my snakes, as i was told this vet was a huge snake vet, loved reps, had all kinds of experience. I was told this by three people, and even talked to the vet herself on the phone, who claimed she had done rescues and owned many snakes over the years.
When i finally got into the office, after treating my dog, she fingered my carpet python for a few minutes....told me how she thought probing was dangerous, so she wouldn't probe her to make sure what sex she was (because i didn't know at the time) and "guessed" it was a girl.
She told me first, my snake had a RI...then she said no, she didn't hear anything and saw no mucus. Then opened my snakes mouth, and said she smelled a yeasty smell...so she wanted to take a swab. She had me convinced my snake had a yeast infection. She talked it up for a while, then came back and told me the 5 min culture was negative.

SO, in the end....she took a bottle of eye drops for my dog, and told me to put a drop on my snakes nose to losen any shed that might be in her nostril. The eye drops did nothing for the dog, either.

Oh, and i forgot to say...she finally admitted that she had NEVER owned a snake. You see, what she really did, according to her, was "rescue" wild snakes...from random areas, and release them into other areas. She also was a vegitarian and didn't like to feed snakes rats. REALLY??? Then she told me how she had an iguana for years, but didn't know why it died, when it did.

Another vet I went to told me my beagle, who was only 5 at the time, absolutely needed to have bloodwork done because she was getting old and I was a horrble pet parent to not get it done (for 250 dollars). When i asked why it was needed, i was told "because she is getting old and it's a good thing to have done"...OOOkay....
probably right, but 250 dollars? really?? just on a whim? Not to mention hello, five is NOT old. She's a small breed dog, which small breeds have longer lifespans than large breeds anyway...so it was like REALLY not old.


I have many more irritations. It seems like every time i've gone to any vet (with the exception of ONE that i saw in eastern Oregon...who was realisitc and in an old hick town the answer is do it cheap or shoot it in the head) i have had to deal with people who want to throw on extra charges, give me poor service, and treat me like i'm stupid.

so, sorry to rant. I DO have a lot of hostility *lol* sorry!

[BarelyBreathing]

Wow, Jaleely, I'm glad I don't see your vets, they sound awful!

When I was living in The Springs and going through the first rounds of illness with my dog, Gunny, I was in the vet's office every week. We knew each other on a first name basis. We memorized each other's numbers. I was there so often that he started charging me only for the equiment used (medication, needles, etc). Everything else was free. When we moved up here, he referred me to my reptile vet, who's even better! That totally sucks that you went through all of that.

[insignia100]

Yikes, you have had a lot of problems with your vets Jaleely. I do want to comment on the food thing though. You might be right about the corn filler in Hills Science Diet, but by-products are not as bad as they sound. Here is a definition:

Meat By-Products - the non rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low-temperature fatty tissue and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hooves.

So, actually, by-products are GOOD. It includes all the organ meat, etc, that a dog would eat in the wild and can actually be quite healthy (think of all the vitamins and minerals in liver, kidney, etc).

Personally, I feed my dog Hills Science Diet z/d for his allergies. Food allergies can be tricky, and I've seen people succeed without using z/d first, but I've seen more people fail. It is much easier to figure out what is causing your dog's allergies when you can get him on a hypoallergenic diet for 6+ weeks (since it can take that long for the allergens from food to leave the body and symptoms to stop) and then gradually start adding back various food items (this is called a food trial) until you find the ones that cause the problems and can move them to a novel protein/carbohydrate diet. I'm not saying this is the only way to do it, but it is certainly the easiest, most fool proof way.

[jaleely]

Well, sorry to vent like that. I've had more stories, and worse ones, i just kind of went off there *lol*
I would actually love to find a trustworthy and reliable vet in my area. You'd think there'd be all kinds living about only 70 miles up from L.A., but there isn't.

My beagle is pretty healthy now, and so I just have to keep doing with things with my basset. He has a low immune system, bad breeding, knuckled over legs (which will require surgery some day) and allergies to food and external things like fabric softener and grass.
When he first started having issues with his legs, I opted to get him Adequan shots. Long story short is that it was $48 dollars a shot at the vets, and $45 dollars a bottle (which turned out to be 4.5 shots worth each bottle) online. When i asked the vet to match prices they refused.

Another scam, is heartguard. Ivermectin is really cheap online, and so is propylene glycol, which is what you mix it with. You give a small percentage of it based on the dogs weight. I think it's something like 50 bucks for an amount that will last about 5 years give or take, where as heartguard is what, like 50 bucks for a six month pack?

It's just one more area of greedy american commerce. It can be done, and people can be taken advantage of, so they are. Not actually the vets themselves being at fault, but it's still frustrating to be a consumer.

[insignia100]

Well, at least with Heartgard they have a guarantee that if your dog gets heartworms while on Heartgard, they will pay for any treatment related to treating heartworms should they contract them (and it DOES happen, in fact it happened to a dog of my former room mates and current class mates). You don't get that guarantee by using cattle ivermectin orally (not to mention, it is technically illegal). Not to mention I'm sure the pharmacokinetics are not the same. Personally, with the current heartworm treatment being off the market, I'd rather not risk it.

You really can't expect a local clinic to be able to compete with online pharmacies on price. I guarantee you they can't even get it at $45. Look up the veterinary prescription drug grey market and you might be surprised at just how many problems there are (like 2 semi-truck loads of Frontline being stolen and ending up being sold at Costco).

Edit: I just want to add that I don't blame anyone for trying to find cheaper alternatives. However, I would like to urge you not to skimp on flea medications. Please, please, PLEASE don't buy the cheap stuff at Walmart (the fipronil is okay, but stay away from Sergeants, Adams', etc). If you want to save some cash, ask your vet if you can buy the largest Frontline and split it up into smaller doses. That's what we do for our cats (a single large dog Frontline gets something like 5-6 cat doses if you seal it well afterward).

[jaleely]

I haven't skimped on flea medicine. We used Advantage on the beagle, and Advantix on the basset (that one makes the beagle sick). Honestly, they work great but i hate using them at all.
Doesn't it work by altering their blood chemistry? Or at least it gets into their blood stream and I hate the thought of the pesticides being in their system. I wish there was a more effective way. I haven't heard of one. Dr Fosters and Smith have been very reliable for this, as well as fish products for us.

[insignia100]

No, Advantage/Advantix spreads over the skin like Frontline. Advantage Multi is absorbed systemically (as is needed to protect against heartworms), but I think the fear of insecticides being in the body is unfounded, since all of the major flea/tick/heartworm medicines on the market have proven themselves to be extremely safe (the few that haven't are, of course, not on the market anymore -- i.e. Promeris).

[Skumbo]

You realize they do this with human doctors as well, right?

And auto mechanics,

and repair men/contractors/etc etc.

Don't get me started on how unhealthy most prescription drugs are that havent been fully tested. Go watch tv for a few hours at night, every other commercial is a recall. Why? Because it wasn't fully tested, they threw it out into the marked after a small 4-6 month study which looked ok, big pharma pushed it out, then after 5 years and a bunch of people dying, they recall it because "they care".

I'm currently running an undergrad study with human participants and it took about 3 weeks of work to get passed by the human ethics board. I could easily go in, following all my set "rules" and do some serious harm to some of these people by accident (But I wont, because I'm not negligent) but others may, and have.

You will find very few people in this world who are genuine and actually care about others more than the big persuader - money.

Which is why it's so hard to find good animal rescues, good vets, good doctors, good cops, good neighbors, politicians, etc etc. It's just sad really.

[jaleely]

I find that midas does good work for the price. But yeah, I've had a couple bad experiences with human doctors too. I think the last time, I had one tell me i needed to come back to her repeatedly because what if she could help me find the early signs of cancer? I had made the mistake of telling her my Uncle just died from stomach cancer...this was a stomach doctor (don't know the specific name for that field) but she said all this scare tactic stuff to me. I had gone to her because yeah...i threw up blood! but it was in response to some medication that was too strong for my stomach. She did an endoscope and fond it was just an inflamed blood vessel in the stomach lining...but then told me that i couldn't afford to NOT keep going to her for further tests, because even though there was no reason at all to think it was cancer...how i could i risk it? She also refused to give me my blood test results unless i made an appointment with her to go over them. There was nothing wrong with them. She flat out told me that it was just how it goes...i needed to come in, and LET her charge my insurance for an office visit because that was her right per her policy and too bad if i had to pay another co-pay. I just got a release from my regular doctor and am going to have it sent to her. I also requested it from their office, because they cannot withold it from me by law. Just ridiculous...she knew i was upset about my uncle dying so she tried to play off of that and scare me into spending more money.

I find that perhaps i am susceptible to this tactic...i seem to get taken advantage of a lot when anyone in authority tells me all these things that could be wrong with me, or my dog, etc. Very dishonest and rude.

Anyway, skumbo is right. It's hard not to hold resentment when you've been taken advantage of so many times, and you can't seem to find anyone out there who's into things for a good reason, rather than just trying to get money out of you at every single turn.

[Skumbo]

In a funny twist of fate, my first pediatrician (which my parents left and put me with a different doctor as a child) who practiced all sorts of "your kid is sick! take these meds he needs them or itll get worse!" tactics to make more money was recently convicted of (get this justice...)
13 YEARS of tax evasion, he hasn't filed taxes since 1999, and he now owes like $212,000 in taxes..He was depositing his checks into his kids (adults) bank accounts to avoid a paper trail..

He just got 5 year house arrest and monitoring while he pays off his debt with proper interest/etc.. hah!

The worst was after we left him, he moved in NEXT DOOR to us, so I've had to look over at this huge house knowing they had all that money from screwing poor people over who just thought they were doing the best for their kids. Now i get to drive by and laugh that hes stuck in there with an ankle bracelet whenever I visit my folks..

I wish this happened to ever slime doctor out there!