My introduction to restraint

[jaleely]

SO, after first being introduced to the world of snake keeping a year ago, I am up to housing 14 snakes and myrid of other critters. I *love* coming home each day and taking care of them all. There is always something going on, someone to feed, a spider molt, you name it. I get a lot of joy and satisfaction from it. During the past year, I also decided to adopt or rescue...i have a spider and about half my snakes that I have done this with.

We got two of them from the pound, and they were in very sorry condition. It was the hubby that started it! He thought of it, I guess, and saw them there. My heart went out to them...the two week old photos showed emaciated and half shed animals. I went out and took them into my home. I made a quarentine area upstairs, away from all my other snakes, and we set to work on healing them.

SO, fast forward to today. I find that I am probably at my limit as far as room for snakes. I was down to zero space before we went and spent a fortune at the last reptile show (beg of jan) and upgraded tanks. It's been cheaper to do tanks, and UTH's for us. Plus, we like to see all the animals...who hoard in our living room, so racks weren't something we were considering.

SO, now that i'm satisfied with everyone's space, i and i have a coulple heaters and small tanks extra...i thought "Good, i'll be ready to adopt another needy snake when the time comes!"
but the truth is..i feel like i'm full. The upstairs snakes haven't truly been quarentined for as many months as i wanted them to be, because i ran out of space and had to move some spiders, and two more snakes up there.
At the pound right now, there is a cute, sad little baby ball python. I am to the point that even though i know i could go down there and pay the ten dollar fee to get that snake, i know i shouldn't.

I guess i'm posting this, because there has been a bit of a row about someone else doubling up on space with their snakes, and not having equipment to house them all. I don't want to be facing that issue. I would never double up my snakes, because that is unhealthy for them, and potentially dangerous because they are solitary animals. I'm just reminding myself (and looking for backup) that it's not a good idea to get another snake, when logically it would be pushing the limits of my means.

Of course it's a worthy cause, which makes me feel justified in doing it. But the facts are, i have been greedy in purchasing snakes, so now i don't have the means to rescue one...i'm just feeling bad!
I mean sure, i could grab my spare 10 gallon tank, and stick a few things in it, and shove it at the foot of my bed, but realistically that's not fair to my other snakes, and it's not worth contaminating them.
I wanted to do snake rescue! I think that's kind of a fail, though, when you keep everything you rescue, and don't adopt it out *lol* then you run into this.

So, here is me being forced to exercise restraint :( boo! Encourage me! lol

I am going to keep an eye out though...if that little snake doesn't get adopted, i may have to rethink things, since the conditions there at the pound have been terrible for reptiles.

[alessia55]

There will always be snakes in need of a home... You have 14 snakes in your care and they need your attention. Don't spread yourself too thin!

It's hard... Every time I go to show to pick up frozen feeders I suffer trying not to bring a new snake home. I have to remember the time, money, and effort that go into the snakes I already have and how much they deserve it.

Keep your chin up! The snakes you already have is plenty for now :)

[exwizard]

Yeah I agree with Alessia, You dont want to go beyond your means. I think youre doing the right thing by restraining yourself for now until you have more means. I am also at my limit and do NOT plan on getting any more snakes for the foreseeable future, for obvious reasons. I was the center of that controversy. Just letting you I can relate and its ok.

[KORBIN5895]

Good call Jaleely. Get a friend to adopt it. Do what's right for what you have. I am PROUD of you cause if that was a boa and I was in your situation I would probably pick it up. Just look at my title that's my problem.:s

[Lankyrob]

At the end of the day if you overextend your resources and time and energy then ALL your animals suffer whereas at the moment there are 14 well looked after snake and one in need of rescue - you made the right choice!

[Norm66]

Good decision. You can't save them all, somebody else needs to step up.

[Will0W783]

I know exactly how you feel, Jaleely. I have an addictive personality, and when I started keeping snakes I thought I'd just have one. As soon as I bought my second, it was like the flood gates opened, and within a year after that I had 15. Then a year after that it was 42. There was always one that needed vet care, or one that wasn't eating, or one that was becoming aggressive because it was impossible to give them all attention.
My fiance eventually put his foot down and made me rehome/sell some of them. Now we have 22, and some of them are his snakes. With this number, I always know who is shedding, who has been picky about food, etc. And I haven't needed to take a single one to the vet in over a year.
It's so easy to want to take in every animal in need of a home, or buy up all the cool stuff at the shows. But you have to remind yourself that if you surpass your comfortable limit, you're not helping the snakes anymore. If you have more than you can care for at the level of care you're comfortable with, the animals don't have a great life, you have no life outside of the care of your animals, and you don't enjoy them as much. The day it stops being fun and starts being a chore to care for your pets, you know you have too many. It's not easy, but your restraint is the best choice you can make for you and your pets. :)

[Aaron_S]

I'm glad you realized all of this.

A couple options you've got is to get someone else to adopt that snake OR you could attempt to get the shelter where it resides to pick up their reptile care so you don't have to rescue an animal from an apparent "rescue".

To the rack vs tank thing. I get it you're on a budget or whatever but I believe if you're going to quarantine and rescue animals than tubs are a better way to go. These animals are hurt, sick or have whatever and you want them in the best possible conditions. A tub does a lot for these snakes without having to add hides and everything else. The tub itself acts as a hide as well as it's easier to maintain your temperatures and humidity. Lastly, they are easier to clean in the corners and to sterilize than the tanks are. It's a really good option for rescue animals. Think about it.

[jaleely]

Aaron, i have been considering racks...you make some good points. It's actually not truly the cost that has deterred me, but just that i like being in the same room with them all, and seeing them. I find that they are more active, and curious, and i enjoy watching them. I have thought they might enjoy the racks because they are more private. What i've been doing (since i felt guilty about that lol) is i've added more branches, hides, etc. Everyone has at least two hides, plus branches, moss in some, rocks, pipes, etc.
I think it's also that we're waiting to get racks because we want to move, and we're not sure what our plans are. I'm kind of rambling right now, but yeah...you made a good point about them being easier to clean too. That's something i hadn't thought about. Hmm!

As for getting a friend to adopt the snake at the pound...i don't have any friends! LoL! The last time i saw snakes at the pound, and didn't get them, they were only on a few days before they got adopted out...but for those few days i told everyone at work and customers that they were there and needed a home. It's just what i'm going to have to do with this one too.

Anyway, I mainly posted this because as well as getting support for my decision, I also wanted to help encourage other addicts like myself to not spread too thin. Believe me, there is still a whole list of snakes i want. Want, want, want...the pure American attitude *lol* I'm very greedy since being introduced to snakes!

So, what also has helped is reminding myself i do want to plan for vet care, i don't want to introduce things into my herd, and these guys are going to be with me for 20+ years give or take per species...and i want to be able to give them attention.
It IS hard to make sure to handle each one a little a day, to keep them tame, and doing water dishes and cleaning is at least an hour every night. With the lizard, the frog, snakes, dogs, and bugs, it's a lot. I'm the only one who does it too (hubby says i wanted them so i have to take care of them...and i do. and i enjoy it. so nyah to him lol)

Okay, so more ramble. There isn't a reptile rescue in the area, so that's why i wanted to start doing that...but the reality is i seem to be keeping them all instead of adopting them out *lol* Maybe one day i can have the room and facility to have better quarantines and care for them, but not now (also writing this because it makes it more convincing for myself to type it out). What good is it going to do to rescue a snake, and not have everything proper to care for it...Right!!

Okay, so thanks for the support, guys! I guess it's just a weird realization for me...to want, but also to practice restraint. I don't think i'm usually very good at that. lol I love'em all though and want to do what's best for them. So...now we'll see if i can find someone who would be a good parent to that pound snake. It was so little! poor thing!

[Aaron_S]

Jaleely,

A couple of points you may want to think about it.

First, for a rack you can make them as big or as little as you want. You can also make them modular for the most part with a little forethought. That's what I plan to do with my next rack. Essentially it's 4 small racks into one. That way I can turn them each off piece by piece if I wish and moving them isn't difficult. The way it's done is build two level racks and then stack them so I'll end up with an 8 high rack system. I can't take credit for this great move as it came from Strictlyballs Home (http://www.strictlyballs.ca)

Also, you may want to refrain from using branches and such with rescues. The only reason being you don't necessarily know what they have and try disinfecting tree bark or getting mites out of little tiny crevices on everything. Not the easiest thing, nor am I saying you do or will end up with mites. Rescues never know what they'll end up with.

Lastly, really think about opening a "reptile rescue". Seriously, really think about it. It's not as easy it may sound and you generally have to pass on your own collection as the rescues will take up all the room/money/time. I know of a number of close friends who burned out on keeping animals because they ended up with far more rescues than their own pets. Also remember, not all rescues will make it so you'll not only need to be financially set but emotionally.

[Shmoges]

If your afraid of being a hoarder just remember that a person with one pet could be a hoarder if they can't handle taking care of it. So a person with 50 ball pythons that takes awesome care of them is not a hoarder even if they spend a lot of time doing it and a stranger comes over and sees a wall of tubs. That's not hoarding. Not to encourage getting more snakes or anything I just want you to not worry so much and enjoy your animals, Enough guilt!! lol

[KORBIN5895]

Hey Aaron. Can you pm me some instructions on quarantineing? I have some boas coming in a month or so and figured I should set it up first.

[jaleely]

shmoges, i don't think i'm a hoarder...anymore...lol (boy can i tell you stories of how much junk i've kept over the years..and finally learned to get rid of) it's just i know i need to learn that i can't take care of them all, and i don't *need* to be greedy. Trust me, it's totally me being greedy *lol* But i will try to back off on the guilt. lol i didn't create the problem, and i'm trying not to create more problems so i should be happy with that.

Aaron, good points again! I've slowly introduced more and more items into the tanks of the rescues. I admited before they haven't been quarentined as long as they should have, but i also realize your point...thankfully none of them have had mites. I was actually completely not prepared to have rescues, though i sure thought i was.
i was looking up the taxes, and non-profit stuff, and planning things all out in my head....reality is it takes a lot of time, space and money to have a rescue and it's just not feesable. Then i realized, after i got my last seriously ill rescues, i had no idea what i was doing. They could have decimated my whole collection. I kept them seperate, and sanitized, and they all have their own cleaning and bedding equipment, etc. but still...I got very lucky. The only serious stuff i've delt with is dehydration and malnutrition. THere could have been bacteria, disease, mites, etc. I really thought i knew what i was doing..lol Totally arrogant!

okay so anyway, talking it out makes me feel even better about not going to get that snake. Now what i'm thinking is that i should try to have a better network of people down here that are open to helping out with finding homes for snakes.

[red ink]

This is going to be off topic here (well maybe not)....

How many people out there have dedicated quarantine tanks/tubs/space?

I have a double stack enclosure that I use a quarantine/infirmary enclosure as well as a quarantine rack if im secluding hatchlings. This enclosures are always full as I quarantine for 8-12 months. I do however either have empty enclosures or complete parts to knock one up in a weekend. I'm also quite pedantic about any animal I have in quarantine, I have seperate husbandry equipment for the animals in quarantine as well as F10 wipes and sprays strategically placed close to the quarantine enclosures. I never go to check/feed/maintain any animal in quarantine until I have finished with the animals not in quarantine. The animals not in quarantine get fed/cleaned/checked first, then into the quarantine room to do the ones in there.

This does mean though that I purchase animals only once a year if that as I don't add a new animal till the quarantine enclosures are free.

[Aaron_S]

Red Ink that's a very stable quarantine procedure/routine you've got going on there. I applaud it.

I have a quarantine as well. Kept away from the rest.


Jaleely, I like that idea of organizing a group who can help with rescues. Maybe there is someone who has the room or the desire to rescue reptiles but doesn't have a personal collection.

I also know Jaleely, that you're heart and mind are in the right place but you admitted you were in over your head,(kudos to you for realizing it) and sometimes a "rescue" really isn't a "rescue" if the experience isn't behind it. (not meant to be a dig at you.Just general statement.)

I want to point out that anyone reading this and thinks buying sickly animals on their deathbeds from pet stores is a good thing should realize it's counter productive to your motives. I say this because if you give the store money for one of these animals then they have the means to keep doing this to even MORE animals. You need to just report them and work towards bettering the conditions of the store or they get shut down.

[jaleely]

I didn't take that as a dig at all, and i appreciate the kudos. I really do know how lucky I am that my adtopees and rescues didn't bring in any sickness, and i'm so glad the ones i did take care of were within my means.

I haven't bought any sick things from a pet store..i'd have to agree that then they are getting money for a sick animal and then they are just going to get other animals and probably make them sick as well & not take care of them.

so, i do have a quarantine room...but like i said i had to move some things in there so the last quarantine didn't go as long as i'd wanted. I still try not to mix anything, and i sanitize after opening and messing with each enclosure. They all share the same air, but are far away from each other. No one has ever showed any signs of anything, thank goodness.

[jaleely]

Talked to a couple customers today, and yesterday and told them about the baby ball at the pound. Hopefully someone caring will pick it up! See....I just need a whole house with lots of dedicated rooms...*nod nod*

[jaleely]

AND there is a red tailed boa, and a burmise python at the pound now too. I keep trying not to look when there is new arrivals. I really kind of wanted the burmise just because of all the hype lately with Florida law, but I also know we dont have the space or the means for such a large growing snake. 6 feet for my bolivian boa girl, and 8 feet for my dumeril's boa girl, in a few years, is probably all i should take on. All my responsibilities are 4 feet or a LOT less right now, and le sigh...! Should stay that way.

I hope you know I'm posting my misery of want on here so that you can all see. That way you who get in the same position can know you're not alone in being responsible...and pouty!! lol

[millertime89]

You're in Cali? Guessing from your location of Ventura.

[jaleely]

Yup. There's a southern california reptile rescue legue, but it's about 2 hours away or so. I just need to work on getting my life together, and making a nice setup for ins, adoptions, and outs i think. I know i'll probably never be able to be big time, but i'd like to get my herp knowledge up enough to do basics and give some animals even a little bit of a life they deserve. i'm trying to make it boost me to make goals, rather than just be sad about them.

Still pretty pouty though *lol*

[millertime89]

its understandable.

[jaleely]

that baby ball is still there....so is the Burmese. I had been doing well at not paying attention, but the hubby brought it up the other day. Blah!

[jaleely]

sigh, these animals have been there a long time : (

County of Ventura - Animal Services - Other Animals (http://portal.countyofventura.org/portal/page/portal/animalreg/otheranimals/)

[millertime89]

only about a month and a half, not that long. but with the ban I'm not surprised the Burm is still there.

[Gungirl]

I feel your pain Missy but you can't save them all. You need to keep your numbers where they are so you can take care of you!

[marvelfreak]

sigh, these animals have been there a long time : (

County of Ventura - Animal Services - Other Animals (http://portal.countyofventura.org/portal/page/portal/animalreg/otheranimals/)
You will find me in kennel 147.

I am an unaltered female, green Lizard and Iguana mix.
My age is unknown. I have been available for adoption since Jan 29, 2012.ID# A542438http://www.petharbor.com/get_image.asp?RES=thumb&ID=A543315&LOCATION=VNTR (http://www.petharbor.com/detail.asp?ID=A543315&LOCATION=VNTR&searchtype=ALL&friends=1&samaritans=1&nosuccess=0&orderby=kennel_no&rows=5&imght=120&imgres=thumb&view=sysadm.v_vntr_others&bgcolor=white&text=n%20avy&link=blue&vlink=red&fontface=arial&fontsize=10&SBG=white&zip=93010&miles=10&shelterlist=%27VNTR%27&atype=&where=type_OO)My name is Buemese. You will find me in kennel 147 and I am currently under medical care.

I am an unaltered male, gray and red Snake and Python mix.
My age is unknown. I have been available for adoption since Feb 11,



A lizard and Iguana mix.:confused:
Gray and red snake and Python mix. :confused: WTF sound like this place shouldn't even be allow to rescue animal if they are that clueless.

[KORBIN5895]

Why would you name a snake Buemese?;)

[millertime89]

You will find me in kennel 147.

I am an unaltered female, green Lizard and Iguana mix.
My age is unknown. I have been available for adoption since Jan 29, 2012.ID# A542438http://www.petharbor.com/get_image.asp?RES=thumb&ID=A543315&LOCATION=VNTR (http://www.petharbor.com/detail.asp?ID=A543315&LOCATION=VNTR&searchtype=ALL&friends=1&samaritans=1&nosuccess=0&orderby=kennel_no&rows=5&imght=120&imgres=thumb&view=sysadm.v_vntr_others&bgcolor=white&text=n%20avy&link=blue&vlink=red&fontface=arial&fontsize=10&SBG=white&zip=93010&miles=10&shelterlist=%27VNTR%27&atype=&where=type_OO)My name is Buemese. You will find me in kennel 147 and I am currently under medical care.

I am an unaltered male, gray and red Snake and Python mix.
My age is unknown. I have been available for adoption since Feb 11,



A lizard and Iguana mix.:confused:
Gray and red snake and Python mix. :confused: WTF sound like this place shouldn't even be allow to rescue animal if they are that clueless.

They have to keep it as simple as possible, they don't know anything at these places most times.

Why would you name a snake Buemese?;)

I'm sure that was a typo.

[millertime89]

just noticed, it looks like that Burm is in a vision. seriously... what rescue has THAT kind of money?

[jaleely]

anything they have has been donated as far as i know. and i see their weird discriptions all the time...when i went there to pick up the two ball pythons i HAVE been able to rescue, not one single person there knew anything about snakes, and the one guy they had to feed them gave them each a live little white mouse....one is over three feet long, the other over four feet.
However, they were both so dehydrated and malnourished that that is all they could handle. Ribs, so nicknamed because that's all he was, was almost dead and so weak he actually couldn't eat that mouse, and it struggled and pulled off one of his scales. I had to start him on rat tails, and move up from there until he got energy.

Anyway...they were all idiots. I've had half a mind just to go down there and offer to take care of the animals they have, even if i can't take them. I just can't figure out how to do it with the hours i work. I think i might try harder though.

[millertime89]

Anyway...they were all idiots. I've had half a mind just to go down there and offer to take care of the animals they have, even if i can't take them. I just can't figure out how to do it with the hours i work. I think i might try harder though.

I would seriously consider this. The other thing to remember is its entirely possible that they don't have the funds to give the snakes proper food items. I would be especially worried about that big Burm.

[marvelfreak]

How are they allowed to have animals there if the can't properly care for them. Sound like maybe they need their license pulled.