View Full Version : *sigh* hognose bite!
jaleely
02-05-12, 01:55 AM
Well...it happened! I got a bite! It was a hilarious thing...but it is going numb and swelling a bit as i type *lol*
So, i was just checking on everyone. Some of you may have followed where i've said in the past that i've had trouble getting my baby green phase western hognose to eat. That is NOT a problem anymore *lol*
I was holding him...and he just turned around...nudged under my thumbnail for a split second...long enough for me to flash "what is he doing?" in my head...and then he bit me *lol* I had to dunk him to get him off. ANd yes, i had to let him bite long enough to get a photo, of course! He was SO cute...and so now i feel sorry for him and we're going to feed him *lol*
So, the tip of my thumb is going a little numb, and one of the spots (the one that felt the deepest) is getting like a weird blister on it!!!
I was really stupid..he didn't break the skin at first...but i had to wait for the camera...!! LOL
anyway...i'll let you know how it goes. I expect i'll be taking some benadryl tonight *lol* i am surprised because i didn't think it would affect me. my poor baby...had to be dunked! he was so confused and unhappy. He started flaring out once i got him off. I put him back in his tank and he started looking all around *lol*
Silly snake! Throbbing thumb! LOL (btw for those of you who don't know, hognose snakes rarely ever bite...and they are rear-fanged, and considered mildly venomous..it's not supposed to be worse than a bee sting for those humans who do react to it)
jaleely
02-05-12, 02:00 AM
I will actually admit, that earlier I had picked up our pyxie frog with that hand. I had thorough washed my hands afterwards, of course. Apparently not so well under my thumbnail. And i've never scented him with frog before, but he sure did smell it and go for it. He actually nudged under my nail before biting. I just thought he was being cute and trying to burrow. *lol*
So, hognose and frog owners beware! They will smell frog no matter what! LoL
theapexgerman
02-05-12, 06:16 AM
Were I live hognose diet is desert taods/frogsand frogs scent is impossible to get off
Bummer! Becky is afraid of hogs because they're miley venomous. Maybe ths will convince her they are ok. Or maybe not. Lol
DragonsEye
02-05-12, 10:40 AM
Mmmm, tasty! Finger-biting good! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
It is cute, I have to admit. Well at least you'll know better and if you still have issues feeding him, just rub the pinky on your pacman. heh
Wolfus_305
02-05-12, 11:01 AM
Ahahah aww that doesn't look like too much fun!
I really like in the second picture how you can really see the unique shape of his head though and his nose pointed up. he looks like he's quite enjoying that snack :P
shaunyboy
02-05-12, 11:01 AM
keep the pictures coming,if there are any strange mutations going on with your thumb please mate (for educational purposes of course;))
great pic's
cheers shaun
Same thing happened to me Jaleely. I got Miss Piggy out of the cage and was putting her pinky in the feeding container (with tongs of course) and when I went to set her in the container I realized she was chewing on my finger. I never felt her chewing, so I would have never known if I wouldn't have looked. She broke the skin and got quite a bit if saliva in the cut, but I never had any type of reaction.
BarelyBreathing
02-05-12, 12:57 PM
Ha, that's pretty cute. I hope your thumb is feeling better today.
jaleely
02-05-12, 08:11 PM
Everything is fine! Just a little bit of soreness today, just because the fangs went kind of deep. There was a bit of numbness yesterday, but everything is normal today! So there ya go...i fall into the "most people" catagory of not being allergic to hognose bites! lol
poor baby...just wanted a snack and mean ol'mama was just teasing! hehe
BarelyBreathing
02-05-12, 08:15 PM
That's good to hear. :)
I know some people can suffer anaphalaxsis (sp?) with bee stings etc am I right in thinking the same can happen with hoggies ?
DeesBalls
02-05-12, 08:32 PM
I know some people can suffer anaphalaxsis (sp?) with bee stings etc am I right in thinking the same can happen with hoggies ?
yes, i believe you are right. some people are allergic to their venom due to an allergy
alessia55
02-05-12, 08:34 PM
Hahahah that second photo is priceless!! :p
yes, i believe you are right. some people are allergic to their venom due to an allergy
Thanks :-)
jaleely
02-05-12, 08:40 PM
It was all worth it for that second photo. Okay so he bit, and didn't break the skin...so i am laughing and calling the hubby over to take the pic, and every single photo he tries to take is blurry *rolls eyes* he can NEVER seem to take a photo!! So i had to take the camera in one hand and keep letting him bite me with the other....and i'm laughing, and then all of a sudden going "ow, OW OWWW!" and he starts to dig in and really get those fangs in. Rear fanged, btw, so he really stuck! You know you love'em though when even the biting is cute. well you love'em, and your obsessed. lol
insignia100
02-09-12, 08:33 AM
There is apparently some controversy over whether hognoses are truly venomous or not. They don't have true venom glands but their saliva is probably toxic. Of course, you can have an allergic reaction to anything (think bug bites and the welts you get from them), and it is likely that the saliva just has a few compounds in it that could be considered "venomous."
See this page for what Clay Davenport considers to be an extreme effect of a hognose snake bite (http://www.herpnet.net/bite/)
insignia100
02-09-12, 09:54 AM
See this page for what Clay Davenport considers to be an extreme effect of a hognose snake bite (http://www.herpnet.net/bite/)
Looks like a standard local allergic reaction to me. I got the same reaction from a miting midge bite over the summer (actually got worse the next day because I got a case of cellulitis from the bite).
Yea, it does. Especially since he said there wasn't hardly anything you could call pain, just itching.
insignia100
02-09-12, 10:23 AM
Yup. That is by all accounts a pretty impressive reaction for a snake bite, though!
Will0W783
02-09-12, 03:05 PM
Clay Davenport's account made me rather irate- who in their right mind lets a venomous snake (regardless of how mild) chew on them for 3-5 MINUTES????!!
I assume he must be a bit daft, as that definitely shows a lack of mental constitution.
Jaleely, I can understand you, as the snake had not bitten through your skin so you weren't concerned,...and when it did you promptly removed it.
However, Clay apparently allowed the hognose to chew its fangs and saliva (venom) into him for over 5 minutes. He most likely only had a bad reaction because of the protracted time of the envenomation.
Clay Davenport's account made me rather irate- who in their right mind lets a venomous snake (regardless of how mild) chew on them for 3-5 MINUTES????!!
I assume he must be a bit daft, as that definitely shows a lack of mental constitution.
Jaleely, I can understand you, as the snake had not bitten through your skin so you weren't concerned,...and when it did you promptly removed it.
However, Clay apparently allowed the hognose to chew its fangs and saliva (venom) into him for over 5 minutes. He most likely only had a bad reaction because of the protracted time of the envenomation.
Yea, I was thinking that too. I also have a issue with his view on culling.
I posted this on another forum. Make sure to check out the article and let me know what you think about it.
I don't particularly like this article by Clay Davenport. Do any of you feel the same? While he has point about culling, he seems to think there's no value in a reptiles life. He says if it doesn't have the traits you desire, not to sell it, but destroy it cause it shouldn't be added to the gene pool. He keeps saying to breed what's uncommon and not to fulfill your interests. The reason I don't like that is cause I have always been told (and this is how I feel) to breed what makes you happy, not just what makes money or what is rare. My PASSION is North American colubrids, specifically corns and rats and I intend to fulfill my hearts desire. Everyone feel free to chime in.
http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/culling.shtml (http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/culling.shtml)
jaleely
02-11-12, 03:39 AM
All i'll get into saying is that for the about 30 seconds my tiny itty baby hoggie peirced my skin, and i ran him to the water tub...it HURT...so I don't see how anyone could have been able to stand anything larger for that long. And if he was testing a theory as to if there was a reaction...my 30 stint proved there was. The area of my thumb that was bitten did swell, and one of the punctures (the one that felt the deepest) did raise into a kind of small blister. The swelling was down the next day, and it only hurt a little, like a paper cut, for the next day.
No need to chew for 5 minutes there *lol*
Willow...this is also a reason I know i could never really have hots. I am so clumsy and trusting of my animals *lol* This was totally my fault...but boy was he darned cute when he did it. All screaming and bleeding aside :)
The hognose bite link is definitely a localized histamine reaction, so benadryl is a good choice in case you are allergic to it (to any degree)
Hoggies are so cute! My girlfriend wants one if she ever gets a snake :3
jaleely
02-12-12, 01:35 AM
I love mine to bits. The are probably one of the cutest animals on the planet, in my opinion! Sand boas are also really cute...and ball pythons...and I want some garter snakes...and...lol...
I love mine to bits. The are probably one of the cutest animals on the planet, in my opinion! Sand boas are also really cute...and ball pythons...and I want some garter snakes...and...lol...
Yeah. this could turn into a "problem" quickly. Hehe.
The first snake we considered buying was a hognose. we talked to our landlord about it (no pet policy) and she said no because "it's venomous" but she was ok with us getting anything else. Oh well, we'll get one when we move soon. :P
insignia100
02-12-12, 09:20 AM
The first snake we considered buying was a hognose. we talked to our landlord about it (no pet policy) and she said no because "it's venomous" but she was ok with us getting anything else. Oh well, we'll get one when we move soon. :P
Just another reason we need to find some budding young herpetologist or biochemist to determine whether or not their really is "venom" in their saliva.
jaleely
02-13-12, 12:33 AM
I think the terminology is that because they are thought to "inject" they are thought venomous, however you are right...we need to find someone to make sure, because other information suggests that it's just their saliva that can be an irritant to the skin.
Hmm! I wish i had all the schooling to find out myself, that's for sure! I would! And without letting them chew on my for five minutes.
My limit is about 30 seconds =P lol!
carolthomas
02-26-12, 02:14 AM
I love my little hognose, and I realize anything with a mouth bites, but seriously these little snakes are so cute.. dang.. I am in a rep and herp husbandry class in college.. I'll see what I can stir up about the hognose being truly venomous.. what I did understand.. is that they are only venomous to amphibians.. hm.. I am really curious now!! time to research~!~ without getting bit!! : ) Unfortunately I live in Colorado, so being that they are indigenous, we are only allowed to have 4 of them .. and luckily the one I do have is a good snake, because I am dealing with a cantankerous boa! As soon as I know more, I will be happy to post!
jaleely
02-26-12, 10:16 PM
Hey that would be pretty awesome!!
And i must say...from personal experience...there is SOME sort of reaction to SOMEthing there *lol*
My thumb didn't go numb and puff up for no reason...but i wonder if it's the spit or some venom!
You've gotta take more classes and become a hognose specialist!!!!
carolthomas
02-27-12, 06:26 PM
Well, it definitely is an anaphylactic reaction to the venom, and I meant to write down the name of the venom, ( Will do it on Wed!!!!) and in bringing this up in class today, then sparked the conversation about not messing with the woodhouse toad, and then picking up the hognose and blah blah lol... so.. the reaction is to the slight bit of venom your little hunni injected! Nice cuteness eh? obviously your lil hoggy doesn't know the phrase don't bite the hand that feeds you hehehe!!
Hey that would be pretty awesome!!
And i must say...from personal experience...there is SOME sort of reaction to SOMEthing there *lol*
My thumb didn't go numb and puff up for no reason...but i wonder if it's the spit or some venom!
You've gotta take more classes and become a hognose specialist!!!!
insignia100
02-27-12, 06:31 PM
Actually, I think you are mistaken. Hognose venom, if it even exists, is extremely mild to humans. Anaphylactic reactions are systemic, life-threatening allergic reactions. While you can have an anaphylactic reaction to any substance (peanuts, shellfish, etc), it is primarily a local reaction.
jaleely
02-27-12, 11:37 PM
There was definitely a reaction...however i do agree that it wasn't anaphylactic in my case. Dictionary.com says "exaggerated allergic reaction to a foreign protein resulting from previous exposure to it."
It was just a small reaction...so does that have a different term? Or is it the same and any reaction is considered anaphylactic? Am i even spelling that right? lol (yes i looked up the def but i'm not going to look up the spelling. I'm like that.)
IS it a venom, or is it the saliva?
And either way...insignia, how do you describe my numb thumb &/or the small blister that formed over one of the puncture wounds, if hognose venom (or special saliva) doesn't exist? I suppose i could be making it up for attention, but let's just assume that i'm not and i'm telling the truth *lol*
It WAS very mild...however it did indeed exist for me!
insignia100
02-27-12, 11:46 PM
Had to look at my immunology notes. I think it would be a Type I Hypersensitivity reaction. The numbness you describe was probably from the swelling putting pressure on sensory nerves. The blister may have just been a result of physical damage to the skin from the bite or tissue damage from inflammatory mediators and other chemicals released by the various cells of the immune system.
The problem with debating this topic is that there is not enough info on reaf rfanged venomous snakes. All they really know is that there is venom there, how potent it is, kinda unknown. Everyone can and will react differently.
It would be nice if there was a little more scientic study done on this topic. Who knows what might be hidden that can help with cures or even pain relief.
p.s. sorry about my poo spelling, my comp at work does not have spell check and I don't feel like going over it again lol
jaleely
02-28-12, 09:26 PM
haha poo spelling *lol*
Yeah, if i could do it all over again i'd be a herptologist and would study hoggies! Maybe someday i'll pay off the school i never finished and then i can finish it with a degree i actually want *lol*
Never to late to start anything :)
do whatever is going to make you happy, life is too short for anything else.
The problem with dream jobs like a herpetologist or entomologist (I'd go for aquatic insects myself) is that they are (1) uncommon, (2) pay poorly compared to other positions with similar education requirements, and (3) unfortunately lead to little or no help to the animal of interest. For example, most entomologists I know studied insects only to end up focusing their life's work on pest control. These observations influenced my decision to steer away from biology--as fond of the topic as I am--to molecular biology, which still feeds my desire to learn about life but also pays the bills.
Plus, like SpOoky says, it's never to late to learn. I think it'd be great to end up as a docent at a zoo when I'm old and retired to teach people about cool water bugs and reptiles.
jaleely
02-29-12, 12:25 AM
My plan really is to hopefully have enough money one day to have studing snakes be a hobby. Hey if i had all the money in the world i'd just go study snakes! And go herping all the time! And own a snake rescue! and have a lot of snakes! lol and basset hounds. I'm actually pretty happy with my life right now, as far as it being filled with animals i love and that make me happy. I am on the internet every day reading more about snakes. Everytime there's a shed, i am looking all over it (i noticed for the first time, on a sand boa shed, that the snake actually shed off around it's vent...a little bit inside the vent...it was like butthole scales *lmao* But i totally was like...wow! lol)
That is some serious interest, in my opinion. Yeah...butthole scales are COOL. *lmao*
but really, i can't wait to tinker with some good setups, when i can buy them, and create more appropriate habitats for the ones i have. I was looking around the other day for a skeleton of a sand boa, actually. Specifically the lower jaw.
I'm totally raw and don't know much, but i would love to take classes. It's not going to happen at this point in time, but i have looked into the local college. I can transfer my old credits from my college in oregon and have biology as a new major. The gen eds will count. That's something at least!
I do realize about the jobs though. See...spit in one hand, wish in the other...i do wish i could study snakes all the time anyway! hehe
You could just do herpetology as a hobbie.
jaleely
02-29-12, 08:55 PM
That's what i meant, i just said it in a long and convoluted way...where i meant that i hope one day my hobby can be my main focus in life. I tend to ramble : )
carolthomas
03-01-12, 09:44 AM
I am in school for zookeeping right now, which as it happens I have to take a reptile and amphibian husbandry class, which is 4 credits, I love it and have learned tons.. its necessary because when we go for interviews we should be able to say we can handle all types of animals, from primates (yuck HATE it) to hoofstock, to birds, to herps (swoon), big cats, and so on.. I just sent my application to go to tanzania and kenya in September I am so hoping that this all works out for me. BTW, I went back to school at the age of 41.. so age is never a factor.. I will graduate next spring and plan on furthering into my 4 year!!
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