Sav Monitor delivery (Littlefoot) news.. updates

[infernalis]

Here is the deal. Thankfully I called and got things straight.

They were going to ship me a 2 foot sub adult, But I said I prefer a baby.

The store owner is expecting a shipment of babies, just not before the end of the week.

So I told him I would rather have a baby right out of the egg than a sub adult caught off the ground in Africa.

[youngster]

Good, glad you got that straightened out.
So when should the baby come?

[CK SandBoas]

Thank you so much for the update Wayne! :)

[Jenn_06]

wow, the guy was going to send you a adult with out even calling you first?

[SpOoKy]

So I told him I would rather have a baby right out of the egg than a sub adult caught off the ground in Africa.

Is it possible he was raised to sub adult here?

Actually I am with you. I wouldn't want to take on one that could have possible beed fet crap up until now. Well at least you have a bit more time to double ensure everything is ready for him. :)

[Gungirl]

I am sorry that his arrival is going to be delayed but at least you are getting the sav you want.

[alessia55]

Well I'm glad you got things straightened out. When's the new delivery date?

[KORBIN5895]

Whoa! Glad you caught that! I would've been furious!

[infernalis]

Exactly, and I would rather wait for a baby myself.

A freshly imported sub adult would take quite some time to get used to human contact, a baby from an egg would be so much easier to get acclimated.

[Norm66]

Sounds good, but the delay sucks.

[Swany]

Glad you got it sorted Wayne, I'm sure in the long run it will be worth the wait ;-)

[infernalis]

gives me more time to get more improvements made to the cage...

I have new pics, But I have to go out and hack up my lawn some more. :)

[alessia55]

I'm still confused. When is LF arriving??

[CK SandBoas]

I believe Wayne said they weren't getting baby sav's until the end of the week, so i'm guessing early next week for Littlefoots much anticipated arrival :)

[youngster]

Prolly Tuesday, because to quote Vernon Dursley, "No post on Sundays!"

[DragonsEye]

I'm still confused. When is LF arriving??

I imagine that is up in the air until the importer actually receives delivery.

[jaleely]

That's pretty obnoxious. How was it they didn't know what you wanted? You've probably talked to them a lot about it.
Ah, i'm an impatient person when it comes to things like that though (anticipating a new animal). I'm sorry about the delay! That would really frustrate me!

[kernel]

Sorry it's going to take longer. How did they make such a screw up?!

[infernalis]

Sorry it's going to take longer. How did they make such a screw up?!


There was no screw up. Had I just recieved the wrong animal, that would be a screw up.

He didn't know anything except I wanted a Savannah Monitor, no discussion of age took place until today.

as long as we are all good to go, there is no problem.

Besides that, I can fiddle and tweak on the cage more, something that cannot be done while occupied.

Now if I water the grass, and leave the full spectrum light on, it will root deeper into the dirt and become some healthy grass.

[kernel]

There was no screw up. Had I just recieved the wrong animal, that would be a screw up.

He didn't know anything except I wanted a Savannah Monitor, no discussion of age took place until today.

as long as we are all good to go, there is no problem.

Besides that, I can fiddle and tweak on the cage more, something that cannot be done while occupied.

Now if I water the grass, and leave the full spectrum light on, it will root deeper into the dirt and become some healthy grass.

Oh, I see. I was under the impression that you ordered a baby and they were going to send a adult instead.

[beardeds4life]

you could also dig up some little plants of some sort to plant in there (make sure they are non toxic obviously) and that also will help keep up humidity

[Freebody]

ya young is worth the wait for sure, that way you can have him on a proper diet its whole life, not a year or 2 into it, and lets face it, its way more cost effective to feed rats, than mass amounts of insects, mind you, wild caught from africa would be ok in that sence. sure hope i get to see some pics when i get home from work tomorow.

[infernalis]

you could also dig up some little plants of some sort to plant in there (make sure they are non toxic obviously) and that also will help keep up humidity

grass. I just put in some lawn turf

[millertime89]

that would be awesome if you could get some grass to grow in there for the little bugger to play around in, not that it'll last that long, but still.
Glad you guys got things ironed out, can't wait to see the new little one.

[beardeds4life]

grass. I just put in some lawn turf

I meant more plants

[infernalis]

They would just get dug up quickly anyhow.

[beardeds4life]

oh makes sense I didnt think of that

[infernalis]

Monitors are like little boys with a toy backhoe, they will dig up everything in sight.

Chomper used to dig up my yard almost as bad as my dogs do.

[beardeds4life]

wow I assumed that because he is a baby he would not be able to. Wont the grass only last maybe 3 days then? Sorry Im asking all these noob questions it is just I have no idea...

[infernalis]

The grass will last a few months, I am getting a strong grow light while I am waiting, I want the root structure to get hold of that clay in there.

A baby will most likely tunnel under that sod and get cozy.

[jarich]

Ya, the grass thing is a cool idea. Hopefully it lasts a while for him. You could also hang plants from the side of the tank since your guy is gonna be so tiny at the beginning. With that grow light in there a few pothos will go crazy on the walls. Itll look more natural and keep the air nice and fresh too.

[shaunyboy]

Here is the deal. Thankfully I called and got things straight.

They were going to ship me a 2 foot sub adult, But I said I prefer a baby.

The store owner is expecting a shipment of babies, just not before the end of the week.

So I told him I would rather have a baby right out of the egg than a sub adult caught off the ground in Africa.


i would preffer a baby as well mate

i can't wait to see the wee guy

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

Heard from the dealer..

Right now there are about a dozen wild caught Savannah Monitor juveniles on the market looking for homes.

There is also a big pile of eggs that have not hatched yet, anticipated availability is in a couple weeks to three weeks.

So my choices are wait it out and get a newborn or just go ahead and accept a wild caught young monitor.

It's becoming a tough choice, looking at an empty cage is depressing, but we really do want a baby, then on the other hand, with a juvenile it's half grown up already, and at least we know the husbandry was correct (until it was captured)

So anyway, there you have it... I think for now we have decided to wait.

[KORBIN5895]

I would wait. It is going to be worth it. Also think of the plant growth in lf's cage.

[shaunyboy]

i would wait wayne

too many things can be wrong with wild caught reptiles

i'd play it safe with a captive bred

or are the eggs harvested from the wild ?

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

The eggs are harvested from the wild, they call them "Farmed babies"

[Gungirl]

How far from you is this guy? If you could go see and check out the ones he has right now you might be ok with a little older one. Other wise wait it out.

[infernalis]

Virginia is a long road trip....

[Gungirl]

Ahh yeah a little to far... I would say wait it out until some babies hatch then.

[infernalis]

Sounds like a plan.

Hope to build some more enclosures eventually and try working with a couple different Monitor species.

[shaunyboy]

The eggs are harvested from the wild, they call them "Farmed babies"

as you know i'm not clued up on lizards mate

i'm thinking the eggs won't be exposed to as much disease/parasites as a wild caught baby who's already running about ?

i take it these guys are hard to captive breed ?

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

Extremely so..

What is REALLY sad, not long ago there was an importer selling gravid females.

I will bet most if not all died egg bound.

[infernalis]

Since I am against parroting others, I'll leave it at this.

I have been told that monitors are very fussy about where they will lay their eggs, so females will hold them in until they die before they will lay the eggs in an unsuitable nesting site.

[SpOoKy]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I am against parroting others, I'll leave it at this.

I have been told that monitors are very fussy about where they will lay their eggs, so females will hold them in until they die before they will lay the eggs in an unsuitable nesting site.

This is what I have hered as well Wayne.

[shaunyboy]

Since I am against parroting others, I'll leave it at this.

I have been told that monitors are very fussy about where they will lay their eggs, so females will hold them in until they die before they will lay the eggs in an unsuitable nesting site.

^^^^^
mother nature at her strangest then mate

so do you reckon.....

that if you could mimick a suitable place for egg laying,you could pull off breeding them in captivity ?

or is it a case of,you can't get them to mate full stop (in captivity)

cheers shaun

p.s.pretty sad shipping anything thats gravid:hmm:

cheers shaun

[alessia55]

I think waiting 2-3 more weeks is worth it if you get a baby

[Rogue628]

I'm with everyone else and wait.

[BarelyBreathing]

I'm going to be the odd one out here. The downside with getting a hatchling, especially THAT young, is sometimes they suffer from failure to thrive. It won't matter how great your enclosure is, or that you feed a top notch food, or whatever. Sometimes baby animals (not just monitors) for some reason aren't meant to survive. If you have a juvenile, it has already survived the period of its life where failure to thrive is a risk.

It's just something to think about. It's very, very rare, anyway.

[infernalis]

As a snake breeder, I am very well aware of failure to thrive, see it every season.

[BarelyBreathing]

Dur... I forgot you bred snakes. :looks at display name and feels not so smart:

[Rogue628]

What about stress levels of wild caught? I'm ignorant when it comes to lizards and only know what I've learned through Wayne and a link he gave me a while back, but I don't think I've read anything about how they are under stress or if it's easy to stress them out. This would be my concern with wild caught. At least with captive hatched, it has a chance of knowing human contact from day one and not being frightened, much less moved into an environment completely alien to them.

Like I said, I know almost nothing about savs but if I were to get one I'd rather have a captive hatched one than a wild caught. But you have years of experience where I do not.

How well do they adjust to captivity when they're wild caught?

[jaleely]

i've been wondering what's been going on. i thought about the failure to thrive thing, too...that would be such a horrible follow-up issue....but overall i think waiting for a baby would be best!
Unless you guys do decide to go on a road trip, and you can meet the little wild caught ones and one seems perfect, i'd wait too!

[beardeds4life]

I would just tell the person to sen lots and lots of pics and if they look good then buy one or maybe pay a reliable herp vet out there to check them out for you

[infernalis]

Thing is almost all dealers buy directly from the importers.

The importers move so many animals that asking for individual photos and trying to cherry pick is not going to work.

I would have to personally travel to Miami to the port of entry, and hopefully the folks at the import brokerage may just let me have a look, but it's not at all feasible.

With big companies like LLL reptile, Pro Exotics, Glades Herp Farm, Jurassic Pets, etc. all standing in line to get at the fresh imports, I don't think one guy looking for a $30 monitor is going to have any clout with them.

[alessia55]

Thing is almost all dealers buy directly from the importers.

The importers move so many animals that asking for individual photos and trying to cherry pick is not going to work.

I would have to personally travel to Miami to the port of entry, and hopefully the folks at the import brokerage may just let me have a look, but it's not at all feasible.

With big companies like LLL reptile, Pro Exotics, Glades Herp Farm, Jurassic Pets, etc. all standing in line to get at the fresh imports, I don't think one guy looking for a $30 monitor is going to have any clout with them.

...Miami? Wayne, I will be home March 2-12ish. Could I go there and check him out for you or something? I can help if there's a way...if you want :o

[Gungirl]

...Miami? Wayne, I will be home March 2-12ish. Could I go there and check him out for you or something? I can help if there's a way...if you want :o

The problem comes more with there being 100+ (#?) imports and not knowing which one Wayne will actually get. They might not even let you see the animals for fear of having to "deal" with you.

[infernalis]

Exactly.. the "big guns" are already there buying from every shipment that comes in.

[millertime89]

I too suggest waiting, not like they're going to be added to the list of injurious species or anything.

[Caylan]

Exactly.. the "big guns" are already there buying from every shipment that comes in.

This made me laugh for real, not easy to accoplish! Good one. Caylan.S

[DragonsEye]

... not like they're going to be added to the list of injurious species or anything.

Don't be too sure of that. I've actually heard some rumors (and currently that's all they are are rumors) that monitors very well may be.

[kernel]

Yea, I have heard that too.

[BarelyBreathing]

Unfortunately, they aren't rumors. Monitors are already illegal in some states because of a: how big they get, and b: the recent discovery of their possesion of venom.

[infernalis]

I already cannot obtain a Nile because of NY law.

Need to hurry up and get two more BIG enclosures built, I really want a Spencer Monitor and an Argus.

There are some baby Timors for sale on KS right now too.

[millertime89]

all this monitor talk makes me want one more and more.

[BarelyBreathing]

Get one! :D

[infernalis]

I will warn you, snakes will seem just a little less interesting once you go Varanus.

ilPhdnnS4gE

[BarelyBreathing]

I will warn you, snakes will seem just a little less interesting once you go Varanus.




Been there, done that. It's so true.

[kernel]

I will warn you, snakes will seem just a little less interesting once you go Varanus.

ilPhdnnS4gE

I wish you wouldn't have posted that. I want one now.

[infernalis]

There is black tree monitors on KS right now.

and some baby Argus :(

[Gungirl]

Hrmm... I think I want yet another animal. Big surprise.. lol

Wayne.. when will you be ready to take on either of those?

[infernalis]

Because Argus monitors get so big, The only way Dorothy will agree to us having one, is when I complete the 10 foot by 12 foot Monitor room in the basement.

I could get a baby Argus and use the cage I have for about 18 months, but she has her heart set on another SAV, and I am not about to break it (Again)

The black tree monitor, I would prefer to have an 8 foot tall 8x8x8 enclosure, and then get a pair.

[jarich]

A pair of blacks would be awesome!

I kind of agree with the bigger monitors being permit restricted. Not that it makes much difference. Not a week goes by that I dont see some boob trying to sell his nile monitor on CL

[kernel]

There is black tree monitors on KS right now.

and some baby Argus :(

Thanks, but as much as I want one (or any monitor for that matter) I just don't have the money, space, time or experience for one.

A pair of blacks would be awesome!

I kind of agree with the bigger monitors being permit restricted. Not that it makes much difference. Not a week goes by that I dont see some boob trying to sell his nile monitor on CL

Yea, permit restricted would be good to an EXTENT. There's someone trying to sell a nile on my CL too :angry:

[infernalis]

I think Niles get a bad rap.. Some people have great experiences with them, and others wind up with ferocious beasts.

The whole "lap dog pet" mentality needs to change.

I don't even handle my snakes that much to be honest, That's why people think I'm nuts for having such affection for "mean" snakes. They give a great incentive to resist handling.

[kernel]

I think Niles get a bad rap.. Some people have great experiences with them, and others wind up with ferocious beasts.

The whole "lap dog pet" mentality needs to change.

I don't even handle my snakes that much to be honest, That's why people think I'm nuts for having such affection for "mean" snakes. They give a great incentive to resist handling.

I love niles, but too many people go into pet shops and see this cute little nile and get it not knowing how big they get. I guarantee you that's why they show up on CL so much.

[infernalis]

Pet shops suck...

Twice now local pet shops have had baby Savs on display in 10 gallon fish tanks with screen tops, and people herd around to watch "the cute little lizard" chase crickets.

I beg and beg some more to have them instruct the buyers to contact me the moment the Sav sells, but it never happens.

The one stupid (ugh I want to swear) said "don't you think we know what we're doing?"

[CK SandBoas]

Before i stated working at my current job, i had put in for a reptile companion position at one of the big chain pet stores in my area,but my application was turned down, stating i really wasn't the type they were looking for. I wish people would be willing to listen, to have an open mind, instead of letting their egos get the better of them.

[kernel]

My local pet shop takes excellent care of everything except the savs. I have a good thing going with them and don't want to mess it up, but I want to do something about the way they care for their savs, but I don't know how I would say it. They feed them mice and keep them a desert setup. I know they care about them, but their deceived by all the bad care info out there. I even thought that's how you were supposed to take care of them after weeks of research and didn't know better until I joined this site.

[Jenn_06]

there are some baby Argus that are a hour from here, if i had the room i would already had one.

[infernalis]

Print this out and take it to them..

The Savannah Monitor, Varanus exanthematicus (http://savannahmonitor.org/)

[kernel]

I will, but how should I present it to them?

[infernalis]

I will, but how should I present it to them?

Use tact, if they feel insulted they will never pay attention.

Tell them that the Savanna plains is like Lion King, a green area that borders rainforest and jungle.

If they are telling the buyers that Savs are desert animals, every single one they sell is doomed to die the same way Chomper did.

If you have to, print out my dehydration post, picture and all.

[kernel]

Ok, I will do that next time I go up there (which is usually at least once a month). Let's hope it goes well and that they will listen. Too bad you don't live down here or I would send you in lol.

[KORBIN5895]

I will, but how should I present it to them?

Personally I would go in there and act like you just received this epiphany. Sound excited and get a conversation going. Say "have you ever heard of this?" Then show them in your print out.

I told my local pet store why chomper died and how the dehydration starts when they are young. When I went in today they had 90% of the screen top covered in Plexiglas and some form of loose cypress mulch to help with humidity.

[beardeds4life]

Thats great! I go to lllreptile and all there monitors are taken care of amazingly and are in huge cages. They have a room with a tegu in it, it is ginormous!!!!!

[infernalis]

The 2012 babies are starting to show up in the kingsnake ads.. I sent an email to my vendor.. Hopefully the wait is close to over.

[KORBIN5895]

Woohoo! Let us know q

[Bradyloach]

Hopefully little foot services sooner or later! I want pictures :D he's gonna be so happy with you! But I'm still raising my sav like chomper! He will always be the sav I look up to! I'll just keep humitdy up. My girlfriend was reading forums with me when we first got Cassie our sac. And we read every single thing about chomper, she cried when chomper died, she got really attached, but savs do tht :)

[alessia55]

The 2012 babies are starting to show up in the kingsnake ads.. I sent an email to my vendor.. Hopefully the wait is close to over.

Wooooooot! Please keep us posted :D

[infernalis]

Vinny just informed me he has the babies in stock!!

[alessia55]

Vinny just informed me he has the babies in stock!!

So when's the delivery?!?!!?!?

[KORBIN5895]

So you will have him Tuesday correct!?!?!?!

[infernalis]

I'm working on trying to get him to ship today.

[Bradyloach]

Wow such good news :)))

[Swany]

So happy for you and the family Wayne ;-)

[infernalis]

Thanks all.

[KORBIN5895]

Wow! I thinking Monday would be the soonest because today is Friday. Then I realized today was Thursday! :)

[infernalis]

yeah, but Vinny is at work right now.

[KORBIN5895]

You tell this vinny character yo ship little foot Out or I will find him and hunt him down! :) in the nicest way possible of course.

[BarelyBreathing]

Wooo! So exciting!

[millertime89]

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!
baby sav.

[crocdoc]

Very exciting, Wayne!

[infernalis]

Just talked to him, he does not like to ship this close to weekends, just in case something goes wrong, so my new baby sav ships Monday for sure.

Picture thread begins Tuesday...http://www.varanus.us/smile/wamma.gif

[BarelyBreathing]

Hooray!!!!!!! I can't wait.

[infernalis]

Hooray!!!!!!! I can't wait.

Me either, but I have already waited this long, what's a couple more days.

I am going to pick up another 6500K (daylight) florescent bulb, just to brighten it up a little more.

One of those bulbs I am using is a soft white, and it has this dismal 2700K light output.

K = Kelvin, the higher the number, the whiter the light is.

[Rogue628]

Woot! :yes::yes:

I bet the whole family is excited!

[alessia55]

Omg yesssss :D

[kernel]

That is AWESOME!!! I can't wait to see pics!

[millertime89]

K = Kelvin, the higher the number, the whiter the light is.

until you start getting blues

[infernalis]

until you start getting blues

yes 6500K hovers close to blue, but mimics natural sunlight and promotes growth in plants / grass as well as keeps animals active.

That 2700K is barf yellow.

[millertime89]

lol yeah I know. I played around with different color headlights in my car a few years back. I think I went up to 9000k, I'm at a bright white 6700 or so and they're the best I've had. Some people around here drive around with those ugly yellow or even purple lights, they look stupid.

[infernalis]

and an eyesore when you encounter them in opposing traffic at night.

[infernalis]

Wow - I just watered that grass, and my cage is swarming with little crickets!

I have not bought any crickets yet, must be there were cricket eggs in the sod, and they have hatched.

Bet they won't last long next week.

[KORBIN5895]

Yes! Free food!

[alessia55]

Nice! Freebies for LittleFoot! :D

[infernalis]

What this also tells me is that since I am supporting an ecosystem inside a box is that Littlefoot will have the closest thing to mother nature anyone could provide from within the confines of their home.

Pretty cool if you ask me.

[alessia55]

What this also tells me is that since I am supporting an ecosystem inside a box is that Littlefoot will have the closest thing to mother nature anyone could provide from within the confines of their home.

Pretty cool if you ask me.

No ****! hahah that's awesome!

[lady_bug87]

And the more bugs you add the healthier the Eco system I think it's awesome and a great learning experience

[KORBIN5895]

Have you tossed in earth worms in?

[infernalis]

Have you tossed in earth worms in?

There are worms, ants, grubs, crickets, caterpillars, beetles, etc...in there.

Remember I used a shovel and brought this dirt in from the woods, then topped it with meadow sod from my field.

Once that soil became warm and started getting light cycles, the life forms contained emerged from hibernation and began doing what they do in the spring.

[alessia55]

Has the grass started to take root in the soil? I'd be interested in seeing what the cage looks like now that it's had some time

[Bradyloach]

That's seriously going to be the happiest sav in the world

[infernalis]

That's seriously going to be the happiest sav in the world

yes it will, I still have a big suprise in store.:D

[kernel]

What is it?! What is it?! Please tell me!

[infernalis]

What is it?! What is it?! Please tell me!

Lips are sealed.

[Swany]

And pray young sir. When will the grand announcement be made to the public ? ;-)

[BarelyBreathing]

Lips are sealed.

You know that's not fair.

[KORBIN5895]

Surprise???? You gotta give it up! We hate surprises!

[Bradyloach]

Come on Wayne!

[infernalis]

you folks really can't wait?? worse than kids on christmas eve,.

[Trent]

Getting a pair?

[Swany]

Getting a pair?

This was my guess lol

[youngster]

Cruel Wayne, cruel.

That's the worst kind of torture :rolleyes:

[Bradyloach]

Please Wayne! Please please

[BarelyBreathing]

you folks really can't wait?? worse than kids on christmas eve,.


Nope. We can't wait.

[infernalis]

bunch a whiners..

[BarelyBreathing]

So, what is it?

[Bradyloach]

Ya Wayne! What is it best buddy ol pal

[alessia55]

Pleeeeease? I don't wanna wait until Tuesday... I want to know now!

[infernalis]

well I have to go now, have a great evening people.

[alessia55]

Who knew you could be so mean :(

[Bradyloach]

Rip the friend I once knew.... Rip the old Wayne! Haha kidding

[BarelyBreathing]

well I have to go now, have a great evening people.

Evil. :unhappy:

[KORBIN5895]

Getting a pair?

I am pretty sure Wayne already has a pair. He has three or four kids.

[jaleely]

haha korbin =P and i admit to being a whiner.

[alessia55]

Today is shipping day!!!! :D

[Gungirl]

Ohh that means pictures will be up soon, I can't wait to see this little one!

[youngster]

We still have 24 hours to go though, it's gonna be a looooooong day :)

[Aaron_S]

Who knew you could be so mean :(

Hahahah apparently I rub off on people ;)

[Gregg M]

Hahahah apparently I rub off on people ;)

That is just gross dude. LOL

[Bradyloach]

That is just gross dude. LOL

Bahahahahahahahahaha

[Gungirl]

.....lol oh man

[jaleely]

*rolls eyes* oh sheesh *lol*

btw hurry up and get here littlefoot!

[Bradyloach]

im just super pumped to see littlefoot!

[youngster]

Approximately 12 hours until LF gets here.....
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo341/kylewaller/pftch-1.png

I'm so so excited for you Wayne!!!!!! :D

[infernalis]

It's like pacing the delivery room waiting for the baby to be born.

[Bradyloach]

Wayne can I be uncle Brady?! :)

[infernalis]

Wayne can I be uncle Brady?! :)

sure...:D..........

[Bradyloach]

Sweet!!!! Uncle Brady! :) yayy maybe one day if I'm ever passing through ny I'll
Come visit :)

[Rogue628]

I know I'm going to be attempting to sneak on here tomorrow at work just to see pics of LF lol :D

[KORBIN5895]

So did you ask for a male or will they just send whatever?

[infernalis]

It's difficult to sex neonates.

[millertime89]

sure...:D..........

make it his user title

and you sir, are cruel

[alessia55]

So soon!!!

[KORBIN5895]

I was just pming Wayne and he said little foot didn't get shipped yesterday ...........

[alessia55]

how do you know he didn't ship? isn't the arrival 10am?