Picture of Olive

[Hail3gh]

I have this picture of Olive from about a month ago. This Camera does not work anymore but when I get a new one I will update with more pics. Amazingly she/he I say she has grown a lot in the last month or so... I think this picture shows how much she is cared for and is handled everyday or she would not be that comfortable with us....

[Norm66]

Super cute! I'm not a lizard person, what is she?

[Hail3gh]

She is about nine months old and a savanah monitor.. Thanks

[Trent]

Very nice!!!

[marvelfreak]

She a real beauty.

[Norm66]

Ah, cool. She's so red I though she was something else.

[BarelyBreathing]

Wow, what beautiful color! She's a bit obese, but I think with that diet change, that will be corrected easily. I also want to point out that she has a bit of stuck shed. It's so important that you increase her humidity, otherwise she could lose her tail, and her toes.

[alessia55]

Cute. I didn't know they came in that color

[Hail3gh]

this is an older picture I know the tail was having a tough time shedding this was the first shed she had a hard time with I have increased the humidity and given her more swimming time since this picture she is doing much better now she has gone through many sheds and this was the first one where she had a tough shed. I think its because of the cold winter it has been really dry so I purchased a humidifier. Oh and this is also after spending an hour swimming she always seems to get really bloted after swimming not sure if that is normal but I assume it is

[infernalis]

this is an older picture I know the tail was having a tough time shedding this was the first shed she had a hard time with I have increased the humidity and given her more swimming time since this picture she is doing much better now she has gone through many sheds and this was the first one where she had a tough shed. I think its because of the cold winter it has been really dry so I purchased a humidifier. Oh and this is also after spending an hour swimming she always seems to get really bloted after swimming not sure if that is normal but I assume it is

Swimming time alone is not enough, she needs to breath in humid air for her body chemistry to be correct.

[BarelyBreathing]

Swimming time alone is not enough, she needs to breath in humid air for her body chemistry to be correct.


This ^

Also, if your enclosure was set up correctly, there would be absolutely no need to take her out to swim in a tub.

[Hail3gh]

I have repetedly mentioned this is an old picture I have added a humidifier and lowered the lighting to make sure that the lizard is warmer it seems no matter how much I explain this I will be getting comments like the above so this will be the last post I make.. I thank you for the info and understand the want to help but if you expect me to come on and listen to what everyone says having You believe what I say is not to much to ask... I am defending myself on every post I make and will not be making anymore.

[alessia55]

I have repetedly mentioned this is an old picture I have added a humidifier and lowered the lighting to make sure that the lizard is warmer it seems no matter how much I explain this I will be getting comments like the above so this will be the last post I make.. I thank you for the info and understand the want to help but if you expect me to come on and listen to what everyone says having You believe what I say is not to much to ask... I am defending myself on every post I make and will not be making anymore.

This is saddening.... I hope you do come back. It's easy to misunderstand what the forum peeps are trying to say. Most just want to help you and your animals so they can be happy and healthy. We understand you'll do what it takes to do that... we just want to help you in the process. Sometimes some of us come off as too critical; I just hope that's not enough to scare you off into never come back here. You shouldn't feel the need to defend yourself. If you're making the changes necessary for the well-being of your savannah monitor, there's no reason for you to feel judged or attacked here. :)

[infernalis]

I have repetedly mentioned this is an old picture I have added a humidifier and lowered the lighting to make sure that the lizard is warmer it seems no matter how much I explain this I will be getting comments like the above so this will be the last post I make.. I thank you for the info and understand the want to help but if you expect me to come on and listen to what everyone says having You believe what I say is not to much to ask... I am defending myself on every post I make and will not be making anymore.


I used to feel the same way.. Please don't abandon ship on us.

Please don't ever go on kingsnake, those guys are brutal mean over there, I have been posting about monitors for 5 years, and I still can't take their abuse!!

Big hugs!!!

And you don't have to defend yourself, this place is the biggest reptile family around, and no one is putting you down, as the group leader I do not allow it.

[BarelyBreathing]

It's really upsetting to read that you're feeling this way. It's very important for the sake of your animal that you are able to take constructive criticism and make appropriate changes, otherwise your friend won't be around very long. I'm not saying that in a mean way, I just think that you should reconsider, for the sake of the animal you claim to love.

[crocdoc]

I have added a humidifier and lowered the lighting to make sure that the lizard is warmer
As long as the monitor is in an open pen in your home, unless the humidifier is making the entire room humid and the heat lamps are heating the entire room, your monitor will ultimately fail and die after a few years. I've seen this time and time again. There's a reason people build enclosures for their monitors - it's because our houses were designed for our comfort, not for the well being of a tropical monitor.

so this will be the last post I make..
What's more important, the long term health of your pet or your hurt feelings? if it's the latter, then buh bye and watch that the door doesn't hit you on the way out. If it's the former, then perhaps think about why everyone keeps saying the same thing over and over again.

[Norm66]

In the other thread he/she mentioned the pen had a top and looked much like Wayne's. Also mentioned were the correct temps an a humidifier.

Honestly from an outsider's perspective I think you guys could have been a bit more tactful with your advice. I'm sure the advice is spot-on but if it falls on deaf ears it doesn't do any good. I can honestly say that if I had a monitor I wouldn't post about it here. Oh I'd read and follow the advice but I wouldn't let this bunch know I had one.

[KORBIN5895]

You're hiding one aren't you norm? You probably started hali3gh as a pseudo! Don't lie to me. We want the truth!

[Lankyrob]

I have to agree, unfortunately, it seems the experts in this case were too busy offering advice (very good advice at that) but without reading that he had implemented those changes and that the picture he posted was very old.

Its great to help and as we know monitors are likely the most "abused" reptile in our hobby but chasing people off isnt going to help the monitors.

[Norm66]

LOL @ Korbin. No, I'm a snake guy. Lizards are neat but not for me.

Thanks Rob. I wondered if I'd overstepped my bounds there. :)

[KORBIN5895]

I was trying to distract them with my amazing wit.

[Norm66]

I was trying to distract them with my amazing wit.


OK, now that was funny. :)

[KORBIN5895]

Okay so maybe I exaggerated a bit in my last post......

[Trent]

I have to agree, unfortunately, it seems the experts in this case were too busy offering advice (very good advice at that) but without reading that he had implemented those changes and that the picture he posted was very old.

Its great to help and as we know monitors are likely the most "abused" reptile in our hobby but chasing people off isnt going to help the monitors.
I am curious..who was the expert and what qualifies them a such? Number of posts? or because they have read a book or two? or is it the number of critters they own? Let me say right off I am not trying to be cheeky or rude! Want to make that clear for any experts I offend:freakedout:

[KORBIN5895]

Basically those that offered the advice have years of hands on successful experience. These Sam people have also seen dozens of dead savs and all mostly for the same reasons.

Out of curiosity how do you define an expert?

[Trent]

Someone who never stops asking questions.
Wayne would be one from what I have read.Years of experience and still trying to figure a better way for his next little guy.Sorry if i am making you blush Wayne.

[KORBIN5895]

Well at least one of them qualifies.

[Kayla90]

I have to agree, unfortunately, it seems the experts in this case were too busy offering advice (very good advice at that) but without reading that he had implemented those changes and that the picture he posted was very old.

Its great to help and as we know monitors are likely the most "abused" reptile in our hobby but chasing people off isnt going to help the monitors.

To be honest I completely agree..

[BarelyBreathing]

I don't agree with the term "expert" at all. The fact of the matter is, there is so little known about these animals, that there really isn't a such thing as an "expert". I have years of experience keeping, breeding, and rehabbing rescued monitors, and I wouldn't even consider myself anywhere CLOSE to being an expert.

[Lankyrob]

Maybe in this case expert isnt the correct term "those that have experience and knowledge of these critters" may have been better but expert is easier to type ;)

[KORBIN5895]

Basically those that offered the advice have years of hands on successful experience. These Sam people have also seen dozens of dead savs and all mostly for the same reasons.

Out of curiosity how do you define an expert?

No worries Rob I covered that. ;)

[BarelyBreathing]

Lol, Rob, I understand.

To everybody else, I just have one more bit to say on this. I don't think I said anything inconsiderate or overly harsh (if I did, please point out exactly what). I was simply commenting on the state of the animal in the picture provided. I feel the changes I have already suggested, in this thread an the other, are completely needed to improve the health of this animal. I felt that those were everybody else's intentions, as well. It isn't like me, nor should it be, to see a picture of a failing animal and say "you're doing a great job", though that may be what they want to hear. I feel bad that this person is having such a poor experience to where he or she won't come back to get the advice that his or her animal so clearly needs. This part may be harsh, but I feel that if a person cares more about their own pride and their own feelings than their animal, they shouldn't have it.

[crocdoc]

This whole thing could have been easily sorted out with a photo or two of the setup. The first post mentioned that the monitor was in a 15 x 5 'pen', which suggests an open top. Later a cover was mentioned, but it was 'shorter and wider' than the one on Wayne's enclosure. We still don't know if the cover seals the whole enclosure or is just a shelter over part of it.

People responding to these posts can't be expected to have read every single post everywhere on the forum and at the same time keep track of who is keeping what and in what way. If advice is given on monitor care, rather than storming off in a huff the person receiving the advice could quell all by posting a photograph (as advised above) or by saying "thanks, that's taken care of, see this post" (and provide a link). As BarelyBreathing has said, when someone's feelings get in the way of the care of their animal, there's an issue.

I can recall a thread a number of years ago in which someone posted photographs of a croc monitor in an enclosure that was barely longer than the animal itself. After three pages of 'beautiful! good job!' I seemed to be the first person to question why it was in such a small enclosure. There was uproar, as apparently that wasn't the right thing to say. It seems that for many people, online forums are a way to get verbal group hugs and keep social contact with the outside world. I hang around monitor forums to discuss monitor care. Maybe I'm weird.

[Swany]

This whole thing could have been easily sorted out with a photo or two of the setup. The first post mentioned that the monitor was in a 15 x 5 'pen', which suggests an open top. Later a cover was mentioned, but it was 'shorter and wider' than the one on Wayne's enclosure. We still don't know if the cover seals the whole enclosure or is just a shelter over part of it.

People responding to these posts can't be expected to have read every single post everywhere on the forum and at the same time keep track of who is keeping what and in what way. If advice is given on monitor care, rather than storming off in a huff the person receiving the advice could quell all by posting a photograph (as advised above) or by saying "thanks, that's taken care of, see this post" (and provide a link). As BarelyBreathing has said, when someone's feelings get in the way of the care of their animal, there's an issue.

I can recall a thread a number of years ago in which someone posted photographs of a croc monitor in an enclosure that was barely longer than the animal itself. After three pages of 'beautiful! good job!' I seemed to be the first person to question why it was in such a small enclosure. There was uproar, as apparently that wasn't the right thing to say. It seems that for many people, online forums are a way to get verbal group hugs and keep social contact with the outside world. I hang around monitor forums to discuss monitor care. Maybe I'm weird.

Not at all, as you say if the person really wants what's best for there animal they have to listen to th advice being offered. A spade's a spade. A bit of tact doesn't hurt though IMO

[crocdoc]

A bit of tact doesn't hurt though IMO

I agree. Point out where I've been tactless and I'll happily apologise.

[infernalis]

I agree. Point out where I've been tactless and I'll happily apologise.


I have never seen you insult anyone, except those that demanded to be insulted.

[Swany]

I agree. Point out where I've been tactless and I'll happily apologise.

No no crocdoc. You misunderstand me. I didn't mean you were. I was talking about people in general. Sorry for th confusion ;-)

[BarelyBreathing]

I agree, Crocdoc. The main reason I hang around forums is to give and receive advice relating to caring for reptiles.

(By the way, Swany, love the color of your title!)

[Swany]

Swany can keep his in red

Just foo you i will. i kinda like the red ;-)

[KORBIN5895]

I just had a little pm chat with the op. She feels that she will always have to defend her post as you guys didn't really seem to read her post.

[BarelyBreathing]

The problem is, we did. She was inconsistent the entire time, changing the story, and then she posted a picture of a monitor in scary condition. She shouldn't have to defend her posts, though. She should be able to provide pictures (best option) or consitency and description in her posts, and be able to take constructive criticism.

[BarelyBreathing]

Nobody is out to get her, or make her look bad. We just want to make sure that the animal in question is taken care of properly. Does what I'm saying make sense?

[KORBIN5895]

Her camera is broken .

Yes and no. It does make sense but it all comes down to Miscommunication.

[BarelyBreathing]

Yes, I saw that, which is why I said that consistency and details will help. None have been provided (at least not to the general understanding of all involved). None of these miscommunications will ever be solved if she runs away.

[Norm66]

What's more important, the long term health of your pet or your hurt feelings? if it's the latter, then buh bye and watch that the door doesn't hit you on the way out. If it's the former, then perhaps think about why everyone keeps saying the same thing over and over again.


FWIW this post (bold mine) was what prompted my post above.

I remembered her post in the other thread about the "pen" having a lid and I had just read it casually rather than with an eye toward giving advice.

She was asked about her pen and she said it was like Wayne's except dimensionally which she explained. It was said that she had gotten a new thermometer and her temps actually were OK per the advice given and it was said that she had a humidifier. I agree that she didn't share all the necessary detail (such as how the humidifier was being used) but IMO the conclusion was jumped to that she was wrong on every count and that's what she objected to. I can understand her feeling about her posts not being read because it appeared that way to me too.

My first couple days here were pretty rough due to one particular poster who I felt was "picking on me". His advice was spot on and I knew it at that time but the fact was my snake's needs were being met in the enclosure I had him in. He brought me really close to leaving this site but luckily I was ornery enough to stick around. And of course I'm glad I did.

I believe it's common courtesy to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming the worst. A little diplomacy goes a long way and if it's really the animal's best interests we have at heart running off folks that need help does not accomplish that.

[KORBIN5895]

A little diplomacy goes a long way and if it's really the animal's best interests we have at heart running off folks that need help does not accomplish that.

I like this.

[BarelyBreathing]

What does FWIW mean?

[Norm66]

sorry. For What it's Worth.

[BarelyBreathing]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[infernalis]

My first couple days here were pretty rough due to one particular poster who I felt was "picking on me". His advice was spot on and I knew it at that time but the fact was my snake's needs were being met in the enclosure I had him in. He brought me really close to leaving this site but luckily I was ornery enough to stick around. And of course I'm glad I did. .

I remember very well Norm. and I hope what I said to you made some difference.

I also said the same thing to the OP, I sent her a PM asking her to stick around.

[Norm66]

Absolutely Wayne. That was over 800 posts ago. Lol.

[KORBIN5895]

I sent her a PM asking her to stick around.

So did I.......

[infernalis]

Maybe if a few people did the same (Hint hint)

[Swany]

Maybe if a few people did the same (Hint hint)

It goes Hint hint cough cough Wayne, but I think we get the message. ;-)

[BarelyBreathing]

Yeah, I sent her a message.

[crocdoc]

Her camera is broken .

And digital cameras are such a rare commodity these days, I'm not surprised that she doesn't know anyone that owns one, from whom she'd be able to borrow. Oh well.

From my experience, 'broken camera' is the monitor forum version of 'dog ate my homework'. If I thought a photograph of my setup could help improve my pets' lot, I'd be running around trying to get my camera fixed or be trying to borrow one from a mate. I've been giving people advice on monitor care for years, particularly as I breed them and always tell customers to never shy away from asking me for help. In 99% of cases, all problems they are having with feeding, shedding etc can be solved by viewing a photograph or two of their setup. Some people avoid doing this because they know it will lead to me asking for them to make changes, and that means work. It's very rare that I find myself saying "your setup looks perfect, I have no idea why your monitor isn't feeding". However, to me that would be an unsatisfactory answer if I were them. If I had problems with a monitor, I'd actually want a solution, so me saying "aha - see how you've got the lights set up? What you need to do is..." is actually a good thing. On the other hand, I place more emphasis on care for the monitor than hurt feelings.

[BarelyBreathing]

Does broken computer count? I actually did break mine and have to use this, which doesn't allow me to upload files from a camera.

But no, in all seriousness, I understand COMPLETELY where you are coming from. It's so frustrating, and I have, in the past, had a tendancy to become short with people because of it.

[Gungirl]

I also sent her a PM

[KORBIN5895]

And digital cameras are such a rare commodity these days, I'm not surprised that she doesn't know anyone that owns one, from whom she'd be able to borrow. Oh well.

From my experience, 'broken camera' is the monitor forum version of 'dog ate my homework'. If I thought a photograph of my setup could help improve my pets' lot, I'd be running around trying to get my camera fixed or be trying to borrow one from a mate. I've been giving people advice on monitor care for years, particularly as I breed them and always tell customers to never shy away from asking me for help. In 99% of cases, all problems they are having with feeding, shedding etc can be solved by viewing a photograph or two of their setup. Some people avoid doing this because they know it will lead to me asking for them to make changes, and that means work. It's very rare that I find myself saying "your setup looks perfect, I have no idea why your monitor isn't feeding". However, to me that would be an unsatisfactory answer if I were them. If I had problems with a monitor, I'd actually want a solution, so me saying "aha - see how you've got the lights set up? What you need to do is..." is actually a good thing. On the other hand, I place more emphasis on care for the monitor than hurt feelings.

In all honesty for the last 6 months my camera has been broken then lost and finally replaced. Yet I don't have a computer to download pics anyway nor do I have any friends whose computer I could use to upload pics from.:) that's how my boat floats.

[infernalis]

Anyone care to guess why I never posted any pictures of Chomper except out in the yard?

Because I knew I would get tore into had I posted his cage, so I avoided taking any pictures of his cage, and it cost him his life.

Never again.....

[alessia55]

Anyone care to guess why I never posted any pictures of Chomper except out in the yard?

Because I knew I would get tore into had I posted his cage, so I avoided taking any pictures of his cage, and it cost him his life.

Never again.....

Do you have any photos of his first enclosure? It would definitely serve as a "what you should avoid" sort of thing.

[infernalis]

Do you have any photos of his first enclosure? It would definitely serve as a "what you should avoid" sort of thing.

One step ahead of you Alissia.. I'm composing a thread and making it a sticky.

[Swany]

Just don't be too hard on yourself in pointing out any mistakes you made Wayne, your not a bad guy, don't paint it like that.

[infernalis]

Got ya.. however if I am not upfront and honest, what would be the point?

[alessia55]

Just don't be too hard on yourself in pointing out any mistakes you made Wayne, your not a bad guy, don't paint it like that.

Exactly what I was going to say.

I'd make it as strictly observational and educational. Tell Chomper's story, but with the emphasis on proper husbandry and care. Include how to make things better, photos of the new enclosure you have now, etc.
And maybe at the end include the impact it had on your life personally.

[Swany]

I'm not saying alter the truth, I'm saying, don't give the impressing your a bad pet owner, tell the mistakes that you made, just dont be too hard on yourself man.

[crocdoc]

In all honesty for the last 6 months my camera has been broken then lost and finally replaced. Yet I don't have a computer to download pics anyway nor do I have any friends whose computer I could use to upload pics from.
Yet strangely you're able to post on here, without a computer. I presume you're using a mobile phone or other similar device? I have the dodgiest, cheapest mobile phone known to man and yet even I can take photos with it, should my camera ever die. I could even send them to my friends to post online for me. Better than that (as I hate the photos my mobile phone takes), everyone I know has a digital camera - heck, even my seven year old god-daughter has one I could borrow for a few minutes to take a photo or two.

Once I had the photos, if (as you claim) none of my friends had a computer (just how backward is New Brunswick, anyway? You guys have television, yet? ;) ) I could ask one of the kind members of this forum to post them for me. If the well-being of an animal were at stake, there are always ways of working things.

Just sayin...

[jarich]

Ha! Did you just ask how backwoods NB was?! Tee hee.:D

[red ink]

Proper reptile husbandry begins with caging/enclosure/temps. Get that wrong then nothing goes right. If somebody goes somethings wrong with my.... pics of the caging is usually what I'd go by.

[KORBIN5895]

Actually doc I don't have a telly.:( I do have a smartphone but can't figure out to post pics for the life of me. Kat has posted photos for me before though.

[infernalis]

Proper reptile husbandry begins with caging/enclosure/temps. Get that wrong then nothing goes right. If somebody goes somethings wrong with my.... pics of the caging is usually what I'd go by.

and I attest to that 100%... after learning the hard way.

[Hail3gh]

Can you please cancel my account or delete me from this post. I do not want to continue to see things in my email from People that do not know me making ignorant comments about the dog eating my homework and such.... If I did not want advice and had no plans on taking it why would I have come on here in the first place... Excuse me if my $600 camera was dropped in the swimming pool by my daughter while we were on vacation for Christmas and I just dont have the extra cash to spend getting it fixed. Call me ignorant about lizard husbandry or call me a beginner but Do not call me a liar. Everytime I read a message from Barely breathing it makes me glad that I dont know him

[KORBIN5895]

Well..... welcome back even if it's for such a short time :/

[SpOoKy]

Everytime I read a message from Barely breathing it makes me glad that I dont know him

Well that is your loss because SHE is one of the most knowledgeable monitor keepers I have ever met. Statements like this just back up the idea that you are more concerned about how YOU look to others rather than being concerned about your Sav.

It's just too bad...

[Swany]

Well that is your loss because SHE is one of the most knowledgeable monitor keepers I have ever met. Statements like this just back up the idea that you are more concerned about how YOU look to others rather than being concerned about your Sav.

It's just too bad...

Here here :-)

[alessia55]

Honestly, Hail3gh, everyone's been real nice in trying to explain to you why you should come back and listen to the advice you're being given. If you don't like how someone is phrasing something and it's hurting your feelings, speak up about it or suck it up. But running away when others are trying to help does nothing good for anyone in the situation. :hmm: Sigh

[KORBIN5895]

Actually I feel this is an epic fail on everyone's part. Some of the post came across pretty harsh. Not that they were wrong. It really is a shame that this person feels this way when all they were looking for were looking for is some advice about her monitor attacking the blankets.

So what if she didn't want yo post pucs of her enclosure? We all know a great guy that avoided doing that once. You can't make someone change their husbandry just because you said so. Maybe we should have welcomed her in and let het get to know us before we really tried convincing her to change things.

Personally I would have been very pissed if you guys called me a liar. Tbh when crocdoc said his statement about none of my friends having a computer I felt a little offended. I honestly have no friends with a computer I can use. I don't have friends that I would go to their house because I have a busy life. But I also know crocdoc knows his stuff and was just pushing my buttons.

So call it what you want but I call it ignorance on our part. We want to be better than the too forty this year then we better start acting like we have two clue. I myself have been guilty of this too and I will gladly show you an example if necessary.

[Norm66]

Actually I feel this is an epic fail on everyone's part. Some of the post came across pretty harsh. Not that they were wrong. It really is a shame that this person feels this way when all they were looking for were looking for is some advice about her monitor attacking the blankets.

So what if she didn't want yo post pucs of her enclosure? We all know a great guy that avoided doing that once. You can't make someone change their husbandry just because you said so. Maybe we should have welcomed her in and let het get to know us before we really tried convincing her to change things.

Personally I would have been very pissed if you guys called me a liar. Tbh when crocdoc said his statement about none of my friends having a computer I felt a little offended. I honestly have no friends with a computer I can use. I don't have friends that I would go to their house because I have a busy life. But I also know crocdoc knows his stuff and was just pushing my buttons.

So call it what you want but I call it ignorance on our part. We want to be better than the too forty this year then we better start acting like we have two clue. I myself have been guilty of this too and I will gladly show you an example if necessary.

Nice post.

I too have been guilty of this. I used to post on a fish site and found myself being rude (though my advice was spot on) to new people who asked the same questions I'd answered dozens of times. Then I found myself assuming things about new posters based on my experience with other posters. I eventually just quit posting there.

I'll reiterate the point I made earlier. If helping the animals is really the goal then not running off those who need help is critical.

[exwizard]

Nice post.

If helping the animals is really the goal then not running off those who need help is critical.

I just read this entire thread and I am stunned. I am sorry I didnt follow this thread before. Norm I agree with you on this. There is a difference between advice and criticism. Even if the aim is constructive, it can still be perceived as attack and I think thats what chased her off but you guys already know this. Im just expressing my observation based on what I just read. I do hope she comes back as there are lots of friendly people here.

[crocdoc]

Actually I feel this is an epic fail on everyone's part.
Yes, you are right. We should have all piped in and said "You're doing a wonderful job! The pen sounds great!" Then, a couple of years later, when she posts about the monitor dying a mysterious death we could all then say "Wow, we have no idea why that happened! Must have been a congenital illness."

So what if she didn't want yo post pucs of her enclosure? We all know a great guy that avoided doing that once.
Yes. And how did that work out for him? Last time I spoke to him, he was pretty cut up about the loss of his monitor and wished things had gone differently. Ask him.

Personally I would have been very pissed if you guys called me a liar. Tbh when crocdoc said his statement about none of my friends having a computer I felt a little offended. I honestly have no friends with a computer I can use. I don't have friends that I would go to their house because I have a busy life. But I also know crocdoc knows his stuff and was just pushing my buttons.
I didn't call anyone a liar - I merely implied that people are quick to make excuses. If an animal's well-being was at stake, you'd find a friend that has a camera/mobile phone/computer. As I said before, you're here and this is an internet forum, so clearly you have access to something other than a computer that can still access this site. Getting someone to post a photo for you would not be a drama. Yes, I was pushing your buttons because I thought you were making lame excuses. I don't buy the 'busy life' statement, either, as your little profile on the sidebar says you've been a member of this site since October 2011 (four months if you include October) and have posted 1,667 times. That's almost 14 posts a day, every day for 120 days straight. If you had an animal that possibly needed help, you'd sacrifice the time it would take to make a handful of those posts to borrow a friend's camera/mobile phone/computer.

If you were that way inclined, of course, and this seems to be the crux of the matter. Maybe I'm weird this way, but I recognise in which fields I am well-versed and in which fields I am not and I have no pride or personal issues seeking help in the latter. I am a member of many forums, not just monitor forums, and although I may offer advice to others on the monitor forums I often seek advice from others on the non-monitor forums. Consequently, I find it difficult to understand the difficulty people have doing something as simple as showing a photograph or two of their setup and then asking "is this okay?" because the worst case scenario would be that people will offer constructive criticism and offer ways to improve the animal's lot. The worst case scenario of the alternative (not posting the photographs) is there being major issues which are being overlooked and the animal dying after a relatively short period. Some people think this is an okay compromise in order to avoid being seen as a 'newbie' or having one's feelings hurt. I don't.

I haven't been rude or impolite in my previous posts on this issue, but I'm heading in that direction now because I can't believe hurt feelings are so much more important than the life of some poor animal. Savannah monitors are removed from the wild in the tens of thousands every year, suffering a Darwinian death in the process (ie never contributing to the gene pool), sent to the other side of the world under appalling conditions to end up living a short life (99% of the time), all for the personal entertainment of pet keepers, yet all you are worried about is whether someone said 'please' or someone else implied that excuses were being made. Really?

What's even funnier is that if you go to the beginning of this thread you'll see that there were only two comments made, neither of them rude and both showing concern about the monitor's well being, before the original poster said she was storming off in a huff. If she'd made comments elsewhere about the enclosure or its care and felt that not all of the information was available to those two people, all she needed to do was say so "I've described the monitor's set-up here: link" One can't expect every person to have read every post and to remember who said what about which animal. I thought that was an extreme overreaction, to be honest.

[KORBIN5895]

Thanks for your opinion Crocdoc. Unfortunately I think you missed my point but hey what do I know.

[crocdoc]

Thanks for your opinion Crocdoc. Unfortunately I think you missed my point bug hey what do I know.

It's very arrogant to assume someone has missed a point just because they chose to disagree. No point missed - I simply disagreed. Do you see me claiming you missed my point? No.

[KORBIN5895]

Arrogant or not I am pretty sure you either misinterpreted what I was saying or missed my point. The way you responded like I posted that directly against you makes me believe you missed my point.

[crocdoc]

Arrogant or not I am pretty sure you either misinterpreted what I was saying or missed my point.

You're kidding, right?

I repeat: I didn't miss your point. I got your point. I disagreed.

[KORBIN5895]

Okay. Again your input is truly appreciated.

[BarelyBreathing]

I really have to agree with crocdoc, here. I find it truly amusing that I was found to be such a horrible person, when every comment I made towards the OP was factual and polite (I even complimented the monitor, even though it is obviously in VERY poor condition). The monitor WILL lose it's tail, most likely the entire thing, if the OP doesn't do something about it. That can lead to severe infection, and death. We can have no idea what she is doing about it, because she isn't telling us very clearly. She said that she made changes, but didn't go into specifics. On top of that, her stories were inconsistent. I never called her a liar, I just simply stated that she needed to be more clear, because obviously we weren't understanding her. I'm sorry, but I find it so frustrating when people come to forums with horrible husbandry, neglected animals, and improper set ups, and then when they are corrected about it, they run off crying. It's truly disgusting, because all of those times that I have personally come across except one the animal has died.

[BarelyBreathing]

Let me put this in another prospective. If I put a picture up of my dog, and he had matted fur and an open sore with flies on it, would you compliment me on how pretty he was, or would you tell me that I needed to get that fixed NOW?

[infernalis]

I was one of them.. I will not condone the testosterone overload on Kingsnake, but I ignored those people.. we all know what happened next.

[KORBIN5895]

Bb you didn't disappoint! ;)

[BarelyBreathing]

Bb you didn't disappoint! ;)

I try not to. :)

[KORBIN5895]

Let me put this in another prospective. If I put a picture up of my dog, and he had matted fur and an open sore with flies on it, would you compliment me on how pretty he was, or would you tell me that I needed to get that fixed NOW?

Personally I would ask you what was wrong with it. I would then ask you what the vet said to do. THEN I would recommend a solution from my personal experience . And seeing as we already have a good idea what we are both like you would be more willing to take my advice.

Btw how us gunny?

[CK SandBoas]

. Oh and this is also after spending an hour swimming she always seems to get really bloted after swimming not sure if that is normal but I assume it is


That word right there just tells me all i really need to know, to be honest with you. In my opinion, you should not "assume" anything is normal, when you admit you're not sure. If i had doubts about any of my animals appearances or condition, i sure as heck would do any and all research on the particular species, and look for advice from more seasoned and experienced keepers. A person who truly cares about their animals should have an open mind, and be willing to accept feedback, constructive criticism, for the sake of their animals.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but a persons ego and pride really needs to be put on the far back burner. Have i gotten constructive criticism in regards to my animals, yes i have, when i made an honest mistake in identifying my new normal Kenyans, but i was willing to listen to others, and i accepted the fact that i did not know the genetics of the grandfather to this litter.

Everyone that has given advice on this thread has had both the Monitor and the owners best interests in mind. They are trying to make the OP a better owner, and in turn, as a better and well informed owner, the OP will have a healthy and happy Sav.

[BarelyBreathing]

Okay, let's say I did as this OP did, and pretended that nothing was wrong, or told you I was already taking care of it in a way that seemed correct to me but was actually making it worse? Do you see our frustration here?

Monitors are some of the most misunderstood reptiles in the hobby. They are much different to care for than snakes, or even other lizards for that matter. What works for a skink or a beardie or a leopard gecko can actually kill a monitor. What works for a monitor can actually kill those other species.

As far as Gunny goes (thanks for thinking about her and asking, by the way), she is on medication for her heart. She isn't sedated all the time now, and is eating and drinking a little on her own. She's stabilized and comfortable, she's not in any pain. The vet said she wouldn't make it through the first night since this happened, and here she is, cuddled up on the couch next to hubby. I am still having to force hydrate her, but she is cooperating. She's still having balance issues, and is spending more time sleeping than she is awake, and she seems to still have partial numbness in her hind legs, though not as bad as the first two days. It only seems to happen when she first wakes up, too, before she gets her medications. The most important thing right now is she's not in pain and she's happy, and everybody's been making sure of that (she comes to work with me and gets Cheetos).