Shes here!!

[OSMDEATHOWNER]

So I got my newest friend, shes about two and a half years and very active. She's feeding on live but I'm wondering if I should switch her to f/t . Also I'm Tryna get this uth on before the nite really begin and I can't really find out how to do it. She looks very healthy tho and ill have pics up as soon as I can find out how to upload en off ma phone. Another thing is ma hot side is at like 98. is dat tooo high? Ma low dude id 80 anda humidity id at like 34% lemme kno stuff people

[Swany]

Congrats on the new arrival. I'll let someone with experience fill you in, but your hotspot's too hot. it should be about 90f

[alessia55]

Congrats on your new scaly friend! We're looking forward to seeing photos whenever you can post them.

1. Yes- switch her over to f/t as soon as you can. Feeding f/t is safer for your snake, since a live mouse can cause harm to your snake (scratching, fighting back, etc). Give her at least 7-10 days without bothering her at all (unless to change her water dish or spot clean) to give her time to settle in and get used to new sights, smells, and surroundings. After those 7-10 days, offer her a f/t rat appropriate for her size. Warm it up really well. Use tongs and make the f/t rat "dance" to appear like a live rat to entice her feeding response. Hopefully she switches over without much fuss. If she misses this first feeding, don't worry. She might just need more time to adjust to her new home.
2. Your humidity is WAY too low. You need to have humidity at 60% at the least, and up to 80% when she's in shed. Ball pythons need good humidity levels to avoid respiratory infections and bad sheds.
3. Your hot side is too hot. You should have the hot side be closer to 90F, and the cooler side around 80-85F. How are you heating the enclosure? Is it an under tank heating pad? If so, you MUST have it on a thermostat. The thermostat will measure and maintain the temperature of the heat pad at a desirable temperature (without a thermostat, most heat pads can easily go up to 130F or more, and this can burn your snake's belly).

Try to get us photos of your set up and we'll try to help you out where it's necessary. We want to make sure you have the right tools to keep your new friend happy and healthy. Good luck! Keep us posted and don't hesitate to ask any more questions :). The ball python section of this forum also has a lot of helpful threads with vast amounts of information.

[Hillsberry]

I would switch her to f/t, one it's easier for you and also you won't have to worry about the snake getting injured during feeding. 98 is a little to hot. Basking temperature should be about 90, ambient temperature should be about 80, the cool side should be about 75. The humidity should be more like 50%. Can't wait to see pictures! :D

[theapexgerman]

yea f/t is best way to go but i have to feed 2 of my snake's live only when your feeding live always watch over the snake never leave it alone

[OSMDEATHOWNER]

Thanks every one, I'm working on fixing everything. I got a 100 watt basking bulb emitting dat heat in a 40 breeder, should I get less wattage. And I taped the uth to the tank by the corners. That's on and working now too. Another thing, is live dat bad cuz I would love a snake to feel is natural hunting way or should I disregard that and jus go f/t?

[alessia55]

Thanks every one, I'm working on fixing everything. I got a 100 watt basking bulb emitting dat heat in a 40 breeder, should I get less wattage. And I taped the uth to the tank by the corners. That's on and working now too. Another thing, is live dat bad cuz I would love a snake to feel is natural hunting way or should I disregard that and jus go f/t?

Your snake will still get the feeling of "hunting," even if it's f/t, and f/t is SAFER (which is what's most important here). I have a video of my baby ball python Pika eating a f/t rat and he definitely "hunts" it and "kills" it. I'll upload the video once I figure out how to.
Show us a photo of your enclosure and how you have it set up- this is probably the best way for us to tell you if you're doing it right.

[theapexgerman]

most people say live bad but long as your watching your snake eat it it shouldn't be a problem feeding live to my bull and mountain king for over 3 year's no problem's like i said just wtch your snake with the mouse round

[Swany]

F/t. Live prey can harm your snake man

[theapexgerman]

ye it can but like i said it's not a big deal long as your watching it and F/T lose it's nutrition value after a while nothing happen to none of my snake's or even my breeder snakes he feed's live to all of hiss snake

[KORBIN5895]

Thanks every one, I'm working on fixing everything. I got a 100 watt basking bulb emitting dat heat in a 40 breeder, should I get less wattage. And I taped the uth to the tank by the corners. That's on and working now too. Another thing, is live dat bad cuz I would love a snake to feel is natural hunting way or should I disregard that and jus go f/t?

Explain to me how you would consider a 3.5 foot snake in a 4foot long tank hunting? Sorry but its not. Also I have been looking for a sunglow female boa. The usually sell around 1500-2000 dollars for a breeding female. I found one for 600. Want to know why? A rat chewed one of its eyes out. No matter how close you watch it could lose an eye faster than you can blink.

[theapexgerman]

yes it happens but not often guess I been lucky for over 3 years and my breeder been lucky for like 9 years

[alessia55]

Personally I'd go the f/t route because it eliminates any danger completely. I'd just rather not take any risks. If anything were to happen to my baby Pika because I blinked and the live rat hurt it, I'd never forgive myself. Switch to f/t and you'll never have to worry about that sort of stuff. That's my 2 cents.

[theapexgerman]

yea i do f/t for some of my snake's but my other one's will only eat live like my mountain king hll only eat live fuzzy's ive tryed pass year to get him on frozen but he just wont it's just really up tp the person

[KORBIN5895]

I am too cranky to continue this conversation tonight.

[mattchibi]

ye it can but like i said it's not a big deal long as your watching it and F/T lose it's nutrition value after a while nothing happen to none of my snake's or even my breeder snakes he feed's live to all of hiss snake

Your previous reply was correct. Live prey is safe as long as you are always supervising & using tongs to prevent biting and scratching. I know TONS of breeders who feed only live prey, and they have over 200 ball pythons. I dont really want to get into an argument about f/t vs live, I just wanted to say that both are completely safe and viable ways to feed your beloved snakes as long as its done CORRECTLY, both have their ups and downs. As for f/t losing its nutritional value.. do steaks in the freezer lose nutritional value if you leave them in too long? (The answer is no)

Explain to me how you would consider a 3.5 foot snake in a 4foot long tank hunting? Sorry but its not. Also I have been looking for a sunglow female boa. The usually sell around 1500-2000 dollars for a breeding female. I found one for 600. Want to know why? A rat chewed one of its eyes out. No matter how close you watch it could lose an eye faster than you can blink.

Probably due to an ignorant owner. Like I said already before, live and f/t both have their ups and downs. Responsible pet ownership is key here. Even f/t rats can cause problems with ball pythons due to improper thawing. I have to say though, I DO prefer feeding f/t to my own snakes, but it should not be misconcieved that feeding live is *ALWAYS* dangerous.

Thanks every one, I'm working on fixing everything. I got a 100 watt basking bulb emitting dat heat in a 40 breeder, should I get less wattage. And I taped the uth to the tank by the corners. That's on and working now too. Another thing, is live dat bad cuz I would love a snake to feel is natural hunting way or should I disregard that and jus go f/t?

Send me a PM if you want an indepth care sheet for ball pythons.

[Terranaut]

If you feel that nutrition in F/T is an issue do fresh kill and kill the prey before presenting. NEVER IS LIVE WORTH THE RISK. Your snake won't notice any nutrition difference but I'm sure it would notice an eye missing or a festering wound. Besides frozen rats seldom get loose or escape in the house ;)

[theapexgerman]

steak do get freezer burnt at some point just saying terranaut i like the fresh kill idea but i try it with my picky eater's doesn't work and i had a live mice escape plenty time's still got one in the house smart i cant seem to kill it

[mattchibi]

steak do get freezer burnt at some point just saying terranaut i like the fresh kill idea but i try it with my picky eater's doesn't work and i had a live mice escape plenty time's still got one in the house smart i cant seem to kill it

It is recommended to put a layer of styrofoam between the surfaces of the freezer and your bags of f/t rats because it helps decrease freezer burn ;)

[theapexgerman]

freezer burn really sucks what i use is a food saver vacum sealer work's pretty well on mice

[OSMDEATHOWNER]

I am too cranky to continue this conversation tonight.

Ayo man go somewhere else wit your sarcasm cuz you don't know me, or better yet come where I'm at and ill show you how we handle people like you. I came on here to learn, ask questions and try to be the best snake owner I can be. Not to listen to your stupid senseless bull. Trying real hard not to curse rite now. It's not a good idea to fool around with someone you don't know!!!!

[OSMDEATHOWNER]

Srry everyone ELSE. imma try f/t her next feeding. So about this bulb?

[youngster]

Whoa whoa, as you can see, Kevin is our self proclaimed village idiot and he was just helping. :)
Plus he already said he was leaving this thread.
No need for threats :confused:

For the bulb, 100 watts for a 40 is fine.
That's what I used in mine and it didn't even need to turn on often.

[KORBIN5895]

Ayo man go somewhere else wit your sarcasm cuz you don't know me, or better yet come where I'm at and ill show you how we handle people like you. I came on here to learn, ask questions and try to be the best snake owner I can be. Not to listen to your stupid senseless bull. Trying real hard not to curse rite now. It's not a good idea to fool around with someone you don't know!!!!

You make me giggle. The remainder of this paragraph has be removed by me as Wayne really doesn't need this right now. Sorry Wayne.

Secondly I don't remember having a conversation with you. Period. That comment was towards Teddy (theapexgerman) whom I happen to like and didn't want to offend.

Now I pointed out a couple of valid points that I would like you to think on. If I put you into a 10x10 room with a m-16 aand drop a cow in would you consider that hunting? Also no matter what anyone says nobody is fast enough to keep a live prey item from harming your snake. It wasn't criticism so take it to heart.

[alessia55]

Srry everyone ELSE. imma try f/t her next feeding. So about this bulb?

Glad to hear you're going to try f/t at her next feeding. Remember, don't offer her food for another 7-10 days so she has time to settle in, adjust to her new environment, and build up an appetite ;) The bulb you have is fine.

[theapexgerman]

Secondly I don't remember having a conversation with you. Period. That comment was towards Teddy (theapexgerman) whom I happen to like and didn't want to offend.

you didn't offend me i still think live is at some cases the way to go

[theapexgerman]

Now I pointed out a couple of valid points that I would like you to think on. If I put you into a 10x10 room with a m-16 aand drop a cow in would you consider that hunting? Also no matter what anyone says nobody is fast enough to keep a live prey item from harming your snake. It wasn't criticism so take it to heart.

that would be a called a caned hunt it's basicly what happen's when you put a live prey in a small place

[KORBIN5895]

Call it what you want Teddy but it ain't hunting. ;)

[theapexgerman]

Call it what you want Teddy but it ain't hunting. ;)
yea it's not a hunt more like a suicide they do it to animal's all of the time elephant's and tiger's and other's it's sad but true

[Swany]

Call it what you want Teddy but it ain't hunting. ;)

I think he ment a caged hunt, I saw a programme about it a while back. Where a "big game hunter" went into an enclosure and shot a lion, it was appalling. But your right Korbin, call it what you want, but dont call it hunting !

[theapexgerman]

here in the state's it's called a can hunt and they do it to more than lions

[Swany]

Aye but it's still not hunting man

[theapexgerman]

yea it's not hunting it just the name has a hunt in it like i said before i think it's a suicide

[alessia55]

You guys are totally hijacking this newcomer's thread... tsk tsk

[theapexgerman]

yea we got to stop I'm just to lazy to make a thread

[mattchibi]

Ayo man go somewhere else wit your sarcasm cuz you don't know me, or better yet come where I'm at and ill show you how we handle people like you. I came on here to learn, ask questions and try to be the best snake owner I can be. Not to listen to your stupid senseless bull. Trying real hard not to curse rite now. It's not a good idea to fool around with someone you don't know!!!!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I strongly urge you to re-consider the tone that you speak to the members on here (or any other ball python forum for that matter) because people wont be willing to help you if you are unpleasant to them. Anyone can be tough on the internet, but thats not what these forums are for. They are for the passing on of information so that we can all take better care of our reptile friends. That being said, a lot of good information has been given already.. and again, I have an indepth care sheet if you need it.

Cheers

[Terranaut]

At least 1/2 of this thread should be removed.
To the OP CHILL BROTHER!! Your gonna get all kinds of comments some good some bad. Don't make yourself look bad by calling someone out with a threat over a web comment. Not cool. No threats here please. Tell them off in a PM. Also, on a Jeep owners forum a guy told another to " come say that to my face, I'll kick your but" and so the guy said fine. Went over there and pounded the hell outa the guy so be careful who you invite over for a "talk" it could cost you.

[theapexgerman]

At least 1/2 of this thread should be removed.
To the OP CHILL BROTHER!! Your gonna get all kinds of comments some good some bad. Don't make yourself look bad by calling someone out with a threat over a web comment. Not cool. No threats here please. Tell them off in a PM. Also, on a Jeep owners forum a guy told another to " come say that to my face, I'll kick your but" and so the guy said fine. Went over there and pounded the hell outa the guy so be careful who you invite over for a "talk" it could cost you.
lol he really went over there wow that got to suck

[Terranaut]

lol he really went over there wow that got to suck

Yup. The guy thought he was a big boy and nobody could touch him them Pete ( yes I knew him from 4 wheeling with him) said fine I'll be right over. Well a 200lb arm chair athlete is no match for a 225lb super athletic guy who used to garage box for $$$. Point is you just never know who the other guy is. Learning the hard way is bad for the face :)

[theapexgerman]

yea i just hide behind my dad XD never seen him lose a fight in the army 6'9" scares off mot people

[exwizard]

I know my reply is late I want to say congrats as well. :)

[exwizard]

ye it can but like i said it's not a big deal long as your watching it and F/T lose it's nutrition value after a while nothing happen to none of my snake's or even my breeder snakes he feed's live to all of hiss snake

Personally I'd go the f/t route because it eliminates any danger completely. I'd just rather not take any risks. If anything were to happen to my baby Pika because I blinked and the live rat hurt it, I'd never forgive myself. Switch to f/t and you'll never have to worry about that sort of stuff. That's my 2 cents.

F/t. Live prey can harm your snake man

Everyone has their own way of doing things and this is no different. I understand the risks of feeding live and I accept that argument but convenience I dont. All of my snakes prefer live. They wont touch anything dead, even doing the nom nom dance doesnt work with them. Plus since I breed my own rats and mice, its more convenient for me to feed directly from my stock rather than going from the freezer to the bag to running hot water and then after some time to thaw, THEN to the snakes. All to have them turn their noses up to it. No thanks. Like I said, to each his/her own and you need to do what works for you. This is just what I experienced with my snakes.

[Swany]

Everyone has their own way of doing things and this is no different. I understand the risks of feeding live and I accept that argument but convenience I dont. All of my snakes prefer live. They wont touch anything dead, even doing the nom nom dance doesnt work with them. Plus since I breed my own rats and mice, its more convenient for me to feed directly from my stock rather than going from the freezer to the bag to running hot water and then after some time to thaw, THEN to the snakes. All to have them turn their noses up to it. No thanks. Like I said, to each his/her own and you need to do what works for you. This is just what I experienced with my snakes.

Wizard, I'm new to snake keeping and my Royal was on F/T when i got her. I'm wondering as you feed live, have you ever had an injury to one of your snakes ?, I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ I'm genuinely interested

[exwizard]

None, nada, zip, zero. Yes I watch them and make sure they eat and I never leave them alone until they are done but no I have had no issues with any of them.

[Swany]

None, nada, zip, zero. Yes I watch them and make sure they eat and I never leave them alone until they are done but no I have had no issues with any of them.

Glad to hear it man ;-) as I said I wasn't being smart it was a genuine inquiry.
Thanks

[exwizard]

No worries. If you feed f/t, it is safer for your snakes and if you're able to get them to eat it, more power to you. I think that's great. :) I know my opinion about feeding live is not the most popular and I'm cool with that. I never really follow what the majority thinks about things anyway. Im just doing what I think is the right thing for my snakes.

[Swany]

cool man. Thanks again ;-)

[theapexgerman]

No worries. If you feed f/t, it is safer for your snakes and if you're able to get them to eat it, more power to you. I think that's great. :) I know my opinion about feeding live is not the most popular and I'm cool with that. I never really follow what the majority thinks about things anyway. Im just doing what I think is the right thing for my snakes.
same here to each there own i think that's how the saying goes

[KORBIN5895]

Everyone has their own way of doing things and this is no different. I understand the risks of feeding live and I accept that argument but convenience I dont.

Regarding convenience. Most people on this forum are not raising their own feeders. I do it as a little side business and I am not sure how big of a business it is for you. I myself have mice which I could feed to one of my snakes while the other two would eat my whole bloody colony for a joke. For some of these people the nearest rodent supplier is an hour away so in that instance frozen are extremely convenient. For you your nearest rodent supply is in your basement, super convenient for you. You feed live because of convenience not because your snake "enjoys" the "hunt". Huge difference. You also know the risks and accept the risks. Again huge difference.

[theapexgerman]

my supplier of mice is like a 2 block's away from me and he sell's me them for cheap well to me at least reason i like feeding live is less work don't have to thaw a the food out

[beardeds4life]

Congrats on your new scaly friend! We're looking forward to seeing photos whenever you can post them.

1. Yes- switch her over to f/t as soon as you can. Feeding f/t is safer for your snake, since a live mouse can cause harm to your snake (scratching, fighting back, etc). Give her at least 7-10 days without bothering her at all (unless to change her water dish or spot clean) to give her time to settle in and get used to new sights, smells, and surroundings. After those 7-10 days, offer her a f/t rat appropriate for her size. Warm it up really well. Use tongs and make the f/t rat "dance" to appear like a live rat to entice her feeding response. Hopefully she switches over without much fuss. If she misses this first feeding, don't worry. She might just need more time to adjust to her new home.
2. Your humidity is WAY too low. You need to have humidity at 60% at the least, and up to 80% when she's in shed. Ball pythons need good humidity levels to avoid respiratory infections and bad sheds.
3. Your hot side is too hot. You should have the hot side be closer to 90F, and the cooler side around 80-85F. How are you heating the enclosure? Is it an under tank heating pad? If so, you MUST have it on a thermostat. The thermostat will measure and maintain the temperature of the heat pad at a desirable temperature (without a thermostat, most heat pads can easily go up to 130F or more, and this can burn your snake's belly).

Try to get us photos of your set up and we'll try to help you out where it's necessary. We want to make sure you have the right tools to keep your new friend happy and healthy. Good luck! Keep us posted and don't hesitate to ask any more questions :). The ball python section of this forum also has a lot of helpful threads with vast amounts of information.

Some heat pads get that hot and only flex watt ones

[mattchibi]

Regarding convenience. Most people on this forum are not raising their own feeders. I do it as a little side business and I am not sure how big of a business it is for you. I myself have mice which I could feed to one of my snakes while the other two would eat my whole bloody colony for a joke. For some of these people the nearest rodent supplier is an hour away so in that instance frozen are extremely convenient. For you your nearest rodent supply is in your basement, super convenient for you. You feed live because of convenience not because your snake "enjoys" the "hunt". Huge difference. You also know the risks and accept the risks. Again huge difference.

On the flip side, a lot of people feed f/t for their own convenience, and not their snakes'. Consider someone (like me) who has to drive 30 minutes to get rodents.. not so bad, right? But if I had to drive to the reptile shop every time I had to feed my snakes, I would be making at least two trips a week. Not to mention, if the rodents arent eaten, I need to setup a cage for them to live in until the snakes are ready to eat again. Most of the snakes I buy, I prefer it if they are already switched to f/t because then I can buy a whole month's worth of rats and not have to worry about driving to the store multiple times a week. I know for a fact that all of the snakes that I have who eat f/t will also eat live with no problem. It is usually a problem to switch balls from live to f/t, but it usually isnt difficult the other way around, which tells you something about how the feeding response works.

The point Im trying to get across is that its not about your snake "enjoying the hunt". It has nothing to do with enjoying anything, because snakes are not capable of pleasure anyways. I've found that live prey just triggers a better feeding response, but I personally agree with many of you and f/t is my preferred method. Only if a snake is struggling to switch to f/t and losing weight will I feed them live prey. This is one of the most argued topics within ball pythons anyways, we're bound to get mixed opinions.. but in the end, as long as your ball python is happy and eating, then who am I to say whats wrong and whats right :D

[theapexgerman]

On the flip side, a lot of people feed f/t for their own convenience, and not their snakes'. Consider someone (like me) who has to drive 30 minutes to get rodents.. not so bad, right? But if I had to drive to the reptile shop every time I had to feed my snakes, I would be making at least two trips a week. Not to mention, if the rodents arent eaten, I need to setup a cage for them to live in until the snakes are ready to eat again. Most of the snakes I buy, I prefer it if they are already switched to f/t because then I can buy a whole month's worth of rats and not have to worry about driving to the store multiple times a week. I know for a fact that all of the snakes that I have who eat f/t will also eat live with no problem. It is usually a problem to switch balls from live to f/t, but it usually isnt difficult the other way around, which tells you something about how the feeding response works.

The point Im trying to get across is that its not about your snake "enjoying the hunt". It has nothing to do with enjoying anything, because snakes are not capable of pleasure anyways. I've found that live prey just triggers a better feeding response, but I personally agree with many of you and f/t is my preferred method. Only if a snake is struggling to switch to f/t and losing weight will I feed them live prey. This is one of the most argued topics within ball pythons anyways, we're bound to get mixed opinions.. but in the end, as long as your ball python is happy and eating, then who am I to say whats wrong and whats right :D
i agree if i had to drive for 20+ minutes i would go f/t but since my breeder/supplier is like 2 block's away it's so quick to just get live and put it in there

[Norm66]

Lots of good stuff here. I used to feed live back 20 years ago because I honestly didn't know you could buy frozen mice.

But since I've been back into reptiles I've been buying F/T from Rodent Pro at the expo we go to every month.

We did feed live when i was trying to get my JCP to eat (he didn't) so two of our BPs had them live. One was no issue at all, but the 2nd one could have gnawed on the snake when it was coiled up. I used my hemostats to hold the mouse's head away from the snake. I can't say the mouse would have bitten Ziva, but she definitely could have.

Luckily now all of mine are eating rat fuzzies or pups F/T.

[Lankyrob]

I feed f/t purely for the reason that i dont want my snakes food to attack them :)

[exwizard]

Regarding convenience. Most people on this forum are not raising their own feeders. I do it as a little side business and I am not sure how big of a business it is for you. I myself have mice which I could feed to one of my snakes while the other two would eat my whole bloody colony for a joke. For some of these people the nearest rodent supplier is an hour away so in that instance frozen are extremely convenient. For you your nearest rodent supply is in your basement, super convenient for you. You feed live because of convenience not because your snake "enjoys" the "hunt". Huge difference. You also know the risks and accept the risks. Again huge difference.

Thank you for understanding why I do what I do.

On the flip side, a lot of people feed f/t for their own convenience, and not their snakes'. Consider someone (like me) who has to drive 30 minutes to get rodents.. not so bad, right? But if I had to drive to the reptile shop every time I had to feed my snakes, I would be making at least two trips a week. Not to mention, if the rodents arent eaten, I need to setup a cage for them to live in until the snakes are ready to eat again. Most of the snakes I buy, I prefer it if they are already switched to f/t because then I can buy a whole month's worth of rats and not have to worry about driving to the store multiple times a week. I know for a fact that all of the snakes that I have who eat f/t will also eat live with no problem. It is usually a problem to switch balls from live to f/t, but it usually isnt difficult the other way around, which tells you something about how the feeding response works.

The point Im trying to get across is that its not about your snake "enjoying the hunt". It has nothing to do with enjoying anything, because snakes are not capable of pleasure anyways. I've found that live prey just triggers a better feeding response, but I personally agree with many of you and f/t is my preferred method. Only if a snake is struggling to switch to f/t and losing weight will I feed them live prey. This is one of the most argued topics within ball pythons anyways, we're bound to get mixed opinions.. but in the end, as long as your ball python is happy and eating, then who am I to say whats wrong and whats right :D

I agree with this as well but what you said applies to all snakes, not just ball pythons.

I feed f/t purely for the reason that i dont want my snakes food to attack them :)

I understand this as well and agree with your reasoning.

What I said earlier is my opinions based on my experience with my snakes. How other people do it is totally up to them and is perfectly fine because their snakes best interests are kept in mind.

[theapexgerman]

f/t vs live food debate could go on for ever

[exwizard]

To me, its not a debate, "to each his/her own".

[theapexgerman]

To me, its not a debate, "to each his/her own".
yup and tomorrow feeding time for all my snake's