Corn and ETB enclosure, with live plants?

[asneeze531]

Hey all, First i don't plan on putting the two together, I'm looking to make two separate tanks. I really like making tans that go on display, and i have made a few dart frog tanks. I really wanted to get opinion about plants like bromeliads and vines and such. i was figuring mostly epiphytic plants, mounted to a background of some sort or some logs in the tank.

First, The corn snake. I have a reptibark/coco fiber substrate as of right now (i feed her in a different enclosure to minimize ingestion of the cocofiber) i'm planning on adding a small false bottom, to account for drainage, just incase, but the nice thing about the plants i have mentioned are that they don't need water to the roots, you just sort of fill them up, avoiding getting the substrate wet, as i know that can be a problem. what are evryones thoughts. not sure if live plants like the ones i have mentioned are even safe, so i wanted to check it out.

For my next snake, i am planning on getting an ETB and at the very least planing on having enough room for two as i may want to consider breeding them. First, what type of enclosure are usually recommended? I've been poking around the forums and seen many pictures. i would really like to do a water feature, is this acceptable (provided it is kept clean of course)? Also what is the height of the tank recommended? i haven't done one bit of planning yet other than possible goals, so i have plenty of time to get this going. thinking of getting the snake in the summer sometime. I'm pretty handy, so building is definitely something i would look into, buti do really like the streamlined look of the zoomed/exoterra tanks. So my question is what size tank is good, and what plants? (i love and prefer Broms but again not sure if they are appropriate for this snake) and is water feature ok? thanks in advance for you advice!

[BarelyBreathing]

How much experience do you have with snakes? I keep emerald tree boas and would definitely not recommend them for anybody without years of experience. They don't do well in captivity at all. On top of that, they are highly aggressive. They can cause permanant nerve damage with their bites. They're also so delicate that if you get bitten and pull away, you can actually sever their spine and kill them.

[theapexgerman]

ETB are some mean snake's i was at my breeder place and he's buddy brought one over and it tag him really good and held on to it look like it hurt

[asneeze531]

How much experience do you have with snakes? I keep emerald tree boas and would definitely not recommend them for anybody without years of experience. They don't do well in captivity at all. On top of that, they are highly aggressive. They can cause permanant nerve damage with their bites. They're also so delicate that if you get bitten and pull away, you can actually sever their spine and kill them.

I have owned corns and BP for several years, and just recently started working at a facility where they have several of these snakes and am being mentored with how to use a hook and how to properly handle them, but never fear i am a responsible owner and won't just rush ou and get anything without being comfortable with is care and having the ability to deal with it. like i said i am planning on summer but if I'm not comfortable by then, i have no problem waiting. I'm extremely careful and do a great deal of research before i jump into anything, if it turns out its not the snake for me then I'm ok with that, but its something i plan on working toward. i can always use the tank for something else, but i rather start building it with my other one, as its easier for me to have two tanks at similar stages of construction to limit waste of materials, that my motivation for the time being.

[asneeze531]

Also, any advice you would be willing to offer would be greatly appreciated, since you currently keep these snakes. Beautiful pics btw, i was stumbled across them when i was looking around.

[BarelyBreathing]

If you're mentoring at a facility that keeps them, wouldn't they teach you how to set them up properly? Just a thought, that's the first thing any of my mentors told me.

Thanks for the compliments. I'll PM you a link.

[asneeze531]

None of the enclosures have live plants, mostly just roughed up PVC "branches". As far as husbandry goes, they are well kept, when i asked about the live plants the guy wasn't sure, as they don't have any. I'm just starting out here, i'm sure they will teach me what they know but i figured i'd try to get some other perspectives and learn as much as i can along the way. there are always MANY different methods/preferences when it comes to the husbandry of just about any animal, just trying to see what people here think, thats all :)

[BarelyBreathing]

I keep live plants in with my younger ones. I keep two pothos. Once they get older, live plants scaled to fit into a vivarium are pretty much out of the question because the weight of their body will crush them. And yes, I totally agree. Everybody has their own husbandry preferences.

[DragonsEye]

Most plants do not do well in enclosures -- and by "well" I mean thrive as opposed to merely survive (a comment which often gets me into somewhat "heated" disagreements with folks). Trying to provide plants with what they need to thrive and at the same time provide for the animal's needs is generally a lot of work and can be very challenging.

As BB said, with small/younger snakes there are plants you can get away with. However, larger herps beat the crap out of the plants just by their sheer weight.

[asneeze531]

That makes a lot of sense actually, though i never really considered that before thanks! i'll see what i can come up with.

[AaronRiot]

I think you're taking a really good perspective with research, as well as with taking your time. Many don't.

I've been looking into live plants as well for tropical species because my personal experience with live flora has been mostly with keeping arid/desert animals.

There is a forum on here specifically geared towards living vivs and plants you can use, and if you start looking back through the many threads you will find a lot of variety.

BarelyBreathing and DragonsEye are right though, when the animal gets larger it's much more difficult to manage the plants.

Personally I'm going to use a bunch of Pothos, modularly sorta (I'll be starting a thread in about a month with pics etc). It grows fast, it's cheap, and it will provide nice thick cover for the snake. I bought a large hanging basket last week from home depot for 13.99. For me, I won't 'plant' them in the enclosure, and I'm not using a spot cleaning type substrate. I have in the past with all my animals and this go around I'm going with paper towels. At the same time I want to put plants in because I think they're beneficial to the animal, just my personal opinion.

So, I trimmed up the pothos, rooted, and started about 15 of them in little pot-things with lids that will be secured in various fashions throughout the enclosure. Not all 15, just a few at a time. this way I can cycle them when needed with cage cleanings, which will allow me to prune those that are overgrown and recover those that are damaged be the snake.

I think the modular idea would be good if there would be a way for you to work that in, if you do go with the natural style viv for your snakes. That way, if something gets a little crushed there's a backup or three. Also, the biggest thing I've found is that placement is important with regards to whether a plant gets buggered regularly or not...as often.

I hope that sparks an idea or two :)

[jarich]

I keep GTP and not ETB, but Im told they are very similar regarding environment. So far mine has not trampled any of the plants, and I keep some very dainty ferns in there. Terrestrial snakes definitely seem to trample things a lot more. Im not sure how Broms would work as they are very stiff and might get broken off. Things like Pothos work better usually as they bend and move when the snake goes by. As for your water feature, I think its a great idea! They can be a pain in the *** to get working if you have a waterfall incorporated, but the benefit is huge. The humidity goes way up as a result and you have a constant source of fresh water, which is key for these arboreal guys.

[hauntedone]

I've had my etb for about a year and a half and he is not aggressive at all. I'm sure there are some nasty ones just like with any other species. I look at quite a few ETBs in the months i was doing research before i got mine and I didnt see any other ETBs who were that way. I think the reputation of being mean snakes is undeserved.

I keep mine in a four foot enclosure with soil and a pothos plant that is thriving. I have to trim it every few weeks. My little guy seems really comfortable in his enclosure since he has lots of places to perch and hide.

[BarelyBreathing]

Be careful with mellow ETBs. I have three, had some in the past, too. All have been/are extremely aggressive. When we get a mellow on coming in through the rescue, our first response is always "what's wrong with it". Nine times out of eight there is something wrong, whether it's dehydrated, too warm, too cool, under fed, infested with parasites, etc. As soon as they're healthy and treated, they go right back to being evil. I've only seen two ETBs who were truly mellow, and both still have/had the tendancies to take a swipe at you seemingly out of nowhere.

[hauntedone]

Be careful with mellow ETBs. I have three, had some in the past, too. All have been/are extremely aggressive. When we get a mellow on coming in through the rescue, our first response is always "what's wrong with it". Nine times out of eight there is something wrong, whether it's dehydrated, too warm, too cool, under fed, infested with parasites, etc. As soon as they're healthy and treated, they go right back to being evil. I've only seen two ETBs who were truly mellow, and both still have/had the tendancies to take a swipe at you seemingly out of nowhere.

I bought mine directly from a reputable breeder at about a month old. The only issues I had was him not wanting to eat for the first couple of months but that has cleared up nicely. I'm pretty sure that if you mainly deal with rescues then you're more likely going to have problems with temperment. People need to stop making ETBs out to be little devils because they aren't.

[BarelyBreathing]

The three that I keep in my collection aren't rescues. One is a long term captive and two are captive bred and born. The LTC one is about ten (estimated) and nine of those years she has been in captivity. The two CBB ones are 09s.