Question for Melamine enclosures

[red_tail_ale]

So, I'm building an enclosure for my growing RTB. It'll accomadate her up to 12ft, but I'm doing what I can do make it comfortable at her current 4.5ft.

I'm planning to build everything out of melamine, even the perch and build-in hides.

I have a few questions for others who have melamine enclosures...

-Does standard melamine need to be treated? If so, what is the best non-toxic treatment?
-Does melamine deteriorate quickly under hot/humid conditions?
-What is the best caulk/sealant for the edges?
-Is there any risk of chemicals in the melamine becoming toxic for the snake?
-How well can standard melamine retain heat (belly-heat for the basking spot?)


Also, if anybody can suggest a better alternative to melamine, I'd love to hear it.

I've used cypress mulch as substrate and have had great results- I plan to continue using it for her large enclosure. (Don't worry, already planned a substrate dam).

[dshin963]

Okay sooo I am researching melamine for my enclosures and racks and the thing you need to know is this stuff is basically particle board with paper on it to make it look white.. Ever step on damp plywood? Fall through? Same thing will happen... From what I have read I plan on clear coating all of my melamine with an epoxy of some sort still havent decided what yet... Then siliconing all the corners and edges and for heating my plan was to have flexwatt in the enclosure with plexiglass screwed on top of it into the wood and again siliconing all the edges and drill holes..

[KORBIN5895]

The outer coatings on melamine is actually a fire resistant plastic. So as far as the outer layer goes it is fine for heat and humidity. I don't think you would need to seal anything but your joints and edges. Now the glued particle layer IS very susceptible to moisture so make sure there are no unsealed cracks or gouges. I myself am seriously toying with building melamine vivs as I am looking at buying a breeding group of boas.

[Gungirl]

Why Melamine and not a basic plywood? I think plywood is easier to work with and seals better. I would use a poly-acrylic or whey based sealer to treat whatever you use after it is built. I use Polywhey Natural Floor Finish (http://www.vermontnaturalcoatings.com/our-products/polywhey-natural-floor-finish/) on everything I build It is a natural whey based sealer.

Also you say you are building hides.. are you going to attach them to the viv itself? If so I would advise against doing that. You will want to be able to remove hides for easy cleaning and also when your RTB gets to be full size it will need different size hides than it does now.

As far as retaining heat that depends on how you want to heat it. If you use an RHP Melamine would be ok but I think plywood would still be better.

[mykee]

-Does standard melamine need to be treated? If so, what is the best non-toxic treatment? No
-Does melamine deteriorate quickly under hot/humid conditions? YES.
-What is the best caulk/sealant for the edges? Marine-grade, water based.
-Is there any risk of chemicals in the melamine becoming toxic for the snake? No.
-How well can standard melamine retain heat (belly-heat for the basking spot?) Very well.

[Lankyrob]

-Does standard melamine need to be treated? If so, what is the best non-toxic treatment? No
-Does melamine deteriorate quickly under hot/humid conditions? YES.But only if the humidity/heat permeates into the interior of the melamine, if it is sealed correctly it should last years :)
-What is the best caulk/sealant for the edges? Marine-grade, water based.
-Is there any risk of chemicals in the melamine becoming toxic for the snake? No.
-How well can standard melamine retain heat (belly-heat for the basking spot?) Very well.


Just adding my $0.03 :)

[mykee]

I'm going to add my $0.04 and add:
there are two types of melamine, one is a heavy paint product that is applied and one is an actual sheet of plastic layed over pressed board. Look for the second type. You can tell the good one by using a fingernail and prying up a corner to see if it is a plastic layer instead of paint.

[DeesBalls]

I just made 5 cages out of the meamine that mykee was talking about... Sealed it with clear sealer and put belly heat with flex watt.

Covered the flex watt with plexi, so tba no water can get in. And all electrical is out of the back of the cage, they hold heat awesome!!! And humidity. ( my smaller ones ) my 4x2x2 I'm having troubles with humidity for my brb, ...

[dshin963]

I'm going to add my $0.04 and add:
there are two types of melamine, one is a heavy paint product that is applied and one is an actual sheet of plastic layed over pressed board. Look for the second type. You can tell the good one by using a fingernail and prying up a corner to see if it is a plastic layer instead of paint.

That would be marine grade melamine no? doesn't this stuff go for around 70 dollars a sheet?

[exwizard]

I just get my racks from Animal Plastics so Idk anything about how to make one but I do find this thread to be an interesting read.

[red_tail_ale]

Why Melamine and not a basic plywood? I think plywood is easier to work with and seals better. I would use a poly-acrylic or whey based sealer to treat whatever you use after it is built. I use Polywhey Natural Floor Finish (http://www.vermontnaturalcoatings.com/our-products/polywhey-natural-floor-finish/) on everything I build It is a natural whey based sealer.

Also you say you are building hides.. are you going to attach them to the viv itself? If so I would advise against doing that. You will want to be able to remove hides for easy cleaning and also when your RTB gets to be full size it will need different size hides than it does now.

As far as retaining heat that depends on how you want to heat it. If you use an RHP Melamine would be ok but I think plywood would still be better.

I'd always been concerned about certain chemicals that may be in both plywood and the types of sealants. Also, I'd heard melamine is easier to clean. But I am impressed by the enclosures you've built and posted around. If it makes the snake comfortable and safe, I'm all for it.

As for the hides, I intended to build one on the hot side and one on the cold side, both of which could be unlocked and opened for cleaning purposes. Until then I'd planned to place smaller hides inside so she'd feel secure, then have them empty for when she's fully grown. I've gone through a lot of trial and error in the design process, but am open to suggestions :)

[Gungirl]

Thanks for the compliments!

I used maple plywood on all my vivs and with the Whey based sealer and epoxy bottom my snake will NEVER be affected by any chemicals.

I have seen people build many things with high quality melamine and I am just not a fan of the strength and quality of it. The kind Mykee noted with the plastic layer is good but for the less than the cost of that you can get a high quality wood. Why go fake when you can get real?

[mykee]

Dan; nope, $39.99 for a 4' X 8' sheet at Rona.

[DeesBalls]

Dan; nope, $39.99 for a 4' X 8' sheet at Rona.

this is what i paid for mine at Home Depot... and i got my 16'' x 8' for only $15.

[beardeds4life]

if you are building cages go with plywood it is cheaper will last longer its easier to work with its nicer looking all you have to do is seal it and it will withstand heat and humidity better than melamine

[KORBIN5895]

Actually melamine and it's finished variations ( like oak vaneer) are going to last just as long as regular plywood.

The main difference between plywood and compressed particle board is that plywood is several.layers glued together and have planes that can be potentially weak and split. Plywood does hold screws better than compressed wood. Furniture grade plywood is also meeting expensive than compressed wood with a vaneer finish.

Compressed wood on the other hand has no planes that could fracture and split because it is basically a sheet of industrial strength glue with wood chips as a filler. It is much denser than plywood and can stand more pressure. It doesn't hold up well when putting screws in and removing them often. As long as you aren't taking said item apart often it should out last most other materials.

[Gungirl]

To me Malemine is cardboard with a coating on it. I refuse to use anything but real wood. I use a high grade maple cabinet plywood to do my building. If I can not build it out of high quality stuff I won't build it at all.

[peterm15]

You could actually use cardboard if you sealed it right,
I once made a turtle pool out of plywood, held water well. Epoxy sealer, about 20 coats.

If you are wanting it to last the life of the snake i would stay away from malemine. One leak in the seal and its a 2 year cage.

Im running on 8 years with my plywood cage. No problems.

[KORBIN5895]

I saw a buddy drop a plywood cabinet with a maple finish. One side split in half down a plane. Distance dropped? 3"

[Gungirl]

It was obviously not made of quality plywood or had moisture damage. Good plywood is not fragile like you are trying to make it out to be. I could drop any one of my vivs down a flight of stairs and the most that would happen is the wood would get dented and scratched.

[peterm15]

I've dropped melamine from less then a foot and had the screws pop out and the glue rip out some of the particle. Had to replace the entire side and reseal again.

[mykee]

To me Malemine is cardboard with a coating on it""

Lol.
To me, a roast beef sandwich is poodle without fur.

I like this game.
To me, a chair is a pencil with an eraser on it.

[KORBIN5895]

Lol! I expected mykee was going to jump on the plywood side( not sure why though). I always look forward to your post mykee!

[dshin963]

Lol.
To me, a roast beef sandwich is poodle without fur.

I like this game.
To me, a chair is a pencil with an eraser on it.

^awesome hahaha
And really 40 dollars you say? At rona? Marine grade? Im in! Home depot normal melamine is like 30... Still trying to figure out what sealant and caulking I should use though....

I have got a few blueprints on the thing and gonna get a carpenter I know to make them for me.. As well as a few racks

[peterm15]

^awesome hahaha
And really 40 dollars you say? At rona? Marine grade? Im in! Home depot normal melamine is like 30... Still trying to figure out what sealant and caulking I should use though....

I have got a few blueprints on the thing and gonna get a carpenter I know to make them for me.. As well as a few racks



Dan; nope, $39.99 for a 4' X 8' sheet at Rona.

Not marine grade.

[Cam]

The main difference between plywood and compressed particle board is that plywood is several.layers glued together and have planes that can be potentially weak and split. Plywood does hold screws better than compressed wood. Furniture grade plywood is also meeting expensive than compressed wood with a vaneer finish.

Compressed wood on the other hand has no planes that could fracture and split because it is basically a sheet of industrial strength glue with wood chips as a filler. It is much denser than plywood and can stand more pressure. It doesn't hold up well when putting screws in and removing them often. As long as you aren't taking said item apart often it should out last most other materials.

I have to take issue with this. A lot of what you're saying is true insofar as particle board having no internal laminate planes, however identifying those planes as weak points I disagree with wholeheartedly. Properly manufactured plywood alternates grain directions with each layer and uses waterproof laminating adhesive that is generally stronger than the wood itself. A plywood board will be stronger and tougher than a "regular" board of similar wood and MUCH stronger than a melamine board.

I've worked with both materials extensively and I currently have 2 very large aquariums built from sealed 3/4" plywood. I would never have considered using melamine or particle board, even discounting the issues it has with moisture.

The advantages melamine has for vivariums (as I see them) are

1) you get a pre-finished, nice looking water resistant surface right out of the box, as long as you seal the edges.
2) It may be cheaper than G1S plywood, particularly considering that the plywood needs to be sealed.
3) You don't have to mess with potentially toxic sealants.

Those are all pretty strong points, and I'm not trying to say Melamine a "bad" material, but in no way can it be considered stronger or tougher than good quality plywood.

[Cam]

I've dropped melamine from less then a foot and had the screws pop out and the glue rip out some of the particle. Had to replace the entire side and reseal again.

I saw a buddy drop a plywood cabinet with a maple finish. One side split in half down a plane. Distance dropped? 3"

Both these examples don't really say anything about anything. A properly built piece out of either material should withstand fairly heavy abuse without coming apart. If you don't use the right glue, enough screws, the right thickness of material, proper bracing, etc. Obviously it will break if you abuse it.

I once decimated an entire Ikea vanity/dresser with a good solid kick... it doesn't really mean anything other than the thing was crappily made.

[Xanafein]

Im on the Side of furniture Grade hardwood plywood. Im particularly fond of Birch, At my home depot its 44.97 a sheet, that seems the be the cheapest in my Area, 2 sheets builds you a Nice 4x2x2 also you can seal and use a VOC free lacquer on it after its been sanded and cleaned up a bit, and you will capture the woods natural Grain, Throw in some 4 ' brown plastic 1/4" glass tracks, some 1/4" inch acrylic and then all you need is a jigsaw for vents a drill for wiring and presto a beautiful piece of furniture that if built and sealed right you can give to your Kids hell if you are feeling fancy throw in some molding, a brass door pull, a jewelers case lock and a vinyl floor sheet for the bottom