View Full Version : Handling- how much is too much?
red_tail_ale
01-17-12, 11:17 PM
Hey everyone, I really enjoy this forum. It's helped me out through so many problems I've had (or, THOUGHT I had) with my red tailed columbian boa, Basil.
Basil is about 4-5ft and I keep her in an aquarium, but am currently in the process of building her an enclosure meant to house her up to a length of 12ft. She's very mild mannered and does not pry at the mesh or try to escape.
Now, I am curious. How do other boa owners feel about handling of their snakes? I know handling too much may stress the snake out, and handling too little can cause aggressive behavior.
Basil's aquarium is in my bedroom, which is 99% snakeproof. I usually take her into the spare bedroom, which is 100% snakeproof. She has plenty of objects to safely hide in, nothing heavy to fall on her, and no loose carpeting or vents to escape through. I bring her into this room from my bedroom and she'll usually sit with me for a while, then slither about the room for a while and rest until I put her back up. To ease stress, I turn off the lights and listen to music on my laptop with headphones (no vibrations). I will check on her from time to time to make sure she's safe, but will typically avoid following her around the room or trying to handle her. With the door closed the temperature can typically reach 70-75 degrees, even during winter. I never leave the room for extended periods of time just to ensure her safety.
Because she is growing, the aquarium can be a tad cramped when she's moving about. So, these late-night roamings seem to please her.
So my question is, how often is it appropriate to handle your snake? Obviously I don't handle her during shed or 48 hours after feeding, and avoid handling her if she's soaking herself or in her hide.
Also, are there any signs of distress I should be looking for when I have her roaming the room? Anything that could indicate fear at being out in the open?
Strutter769
01-17-12, 11:35 PM
Wow,?! It sounds like you are really cautious with her, which I think is excellent. I think different breeds sometimes tolerate handling differently. I think Colombians are possibly one of the most tolerant of all breeds, perhaps second only to Ball Pythons or Corn Snakes. With that said, I sour recommend maybe twice a week with the obvious exceptions you mentioned.
As for signs of stress, you'll probably receive better advice soon, but the obvious signs would be refusing to eat, things like that.
I'm sure you'll get much more support here shortly. Good luck and enjoy her. Oh, and show us LOTS of pictures!!
red_tail_ale
01-17-12, 11:55 PM
Wow,?! It sounds like you are really cautious with her, which I think is excellent. I think different breeds sometimes tolerate handling differently. I think Colombians are possibly one of the most tolerant of all breeds, perhaps second only to Ball Pythons or Corn Snakes. With that said, I sour recommend maybe twice a week with the obvious exceptions you mentioned.
As for signs of stress, you'll probably receive better advice soon, but the obvious signs would be refusing to eat, things like that.
I'm sure you'll get much more support here shortly. Good luck and enjoy her. Oh, and show us LOTS of pictures!!
Thanks! I've only had her since October, and she came to me with a nasty RTI...so really, I'm like one of those overprotective parents. But I'm getting better.
I'll try to post some pictures. They're older pictures (about november/december) so she's smaller and the room is...well, messier. There's never anything that could harm her but she prods everything new on the floor, don't want her getting cut or scraped.
One thing I have noticed- when she's roaming the room, sometimes I'll notice her completely stretched out, and she's stopped moving, and I can see her breathing in and out quickly. Is this something they usually do when stretched out, or is she catching her breath after moving about?
Or is it a sign of stress from being exposed?
Strutter769
01-18-12, 12:02 AM
In my opinion, most likely catching a quick breath, enjoying the view. BS careful not to get too confident about what is "snake-proof." It's just about that time when one little detail is overlooked, or you get a little bit relaxed on something you normally do, and you're right here learning how to capture a missing snake.
All I'm saying is you can never, ever, be too cautious! It only takes one and you are looking at an empty tank. Worst nightmare, believe me.
Sounds like you're doing really well.
Strutter769
01-18-12, 12:04 AM
Also, I think if she felt over-exposed, she wouldn't freeze in the open. I think she'd be looking for shelter. Just my opinion though. Each animal is different.
red_tail_ale
01-18-12, 04:32 AM
Oh, I agree!
Actually had an incident a month or two after I got her.
In this room is a vintage restaurant booth picked up by my brother some 5 years ago. It stuck out a little from the wall, and it was her favorite spot to hide behind.
Well, one day I peer over and watch her slithering up and inside of the booth. Apparently the seat of the booth had an overlapping lip over the base, and she was halfway inside and impossible to pull out.
Luckily, the lip led to the hollow bottom, so all it took was tilting the booth forward and pulling her out.
A few days later she was back and I thought nothing of it, as she seemed to enjoy the privacy.
Then, I noticed she had crawled into a narrow space where the base of the backrest met the seat. She could hardly fit into it and got stuck.
So, after about 10 minutes with some Cutco scissors and a crowbar (far away from her, mind you) I managed to get through the upholstery and pry off the board to free her.
After a thorough check, I'm positive there's no way for her to get into the backrest (which would be a nightmare to free her from). I cleaned all the exposed wood and removed any exposed nails or staples used to hold the booth together. Now, it's her favorite hiding spot, and retrieving her is as easy as lifting the booth up slowly.
Terranaut
01-18-12, 05:26 AM
I have 2 RTB's and we handle them every other day and our male sometimes even more. Typicaly we keep it under 10 min unless we let them roam a bit them maybe 1/2 hr total out of their viv and they are great with it. It will vary from snake to snake but ours are great and always seem to be ok with coming out to play. A change in behavior or appetite would be a sign of possible overhandling (and other things as well like illness or bad husbandry). If your snake is happy enjoy and have your playtime. So listen to your snake. They are the best judge of what is to much.
alessia55
01-18-12, 08:40 AM
When I have my snakes with me, I take them out every day except the 48hrs after feeding. Kaybe (my 2yr old) especially seems loves it. More importantly, they tolerate it and I love it. :p
DavethePython
01-18-12, 09:22 AM
We handle our BP's every night after we get home from work. Usually 15 to 30 minutes except on feeding days . I live in the north in Canada so the weather dictates how long we handle them. They tend to cool down really fast right now . I usually judge how long I hold them by the temp of their skin. When they start to feel cool we put them back.
I limit handaling zero - none, there are no benefits handaling a snake. IMO it just ads stress.
I limit handaling zero - none, there are no benefits handaling a snake. IMO it just ads stress.
If I couldn't handle my snakes I'd stick to fish.
Strutter769
01-18-12, 10:54 AM
If I couldn't handle my snakes I'd stick to fish.
I concur! Except for the fact I don't seem to BRB able to keep fish alive. Of course the only fish I really want are the expensive, not-so-hearty variety.
Gungirl
01-18-12, 11:39 AM
I tend to handle some of my snakes 2-3 times a month and for maybe 10 min each time. My other snakes NEVER get handled.
Lankyrob
01-18-12, 01:31 PM
My guys probalby get about 10 mins handling each month, unless there is a specific reason to check one out they pretty much get left alone.
lady_bug87
01-18-12, 01:39 PM
I'm holding my boa right now....
theapexgerman
01-18-12, 01:39 PM
i handle my snake's every day for like 1 hour or so cept when shedding and feeding
CK SandBoas
01-18-12, 01:42 PM
I handle my snakes once or twice a week, for about 10-15 minutes each, that is if they are not in shed, and haven't just eaten.
Valvaren
01-18-12, 03:29 PM
I handle mine randomly as long as they aren't digesting, shedding, hiding or warming up. If they are out and about I will open their tank, if they want to come out I take them out, let them roam and when they get settled again I put them back and they go back to doing whatever. I understand people have a lot of views about handling and I know there are a lot of snakes that can't be handled but as long as your snake isn't suffering and you are doing it at proper times I think you will know when they have had to much.
presspirate
01-18-12, 03:53 PM
Your snakes don't want to be handled. So in that sense, any handling is too much. However, handling serves 2 purposes it makes you more comfortable around you pets, and you can better asses their general health. I handle each of mine 3-4 times a month mostly for evaluation purposes. I do occasionally let them roam the house as well for about a half hour.
marvelfreak
01-18-12, 04:04 PM
For me it depends which snake it is. My big Jungle cage is a little cramp for her, so anytime i am in the snake room i close the door and open her cage and let her roam while i go about my business. Same story with my Borneo. They are both getting bigger cages in a month or two. The rest get handle once or twice every couple weeks.
exwizard
01-18-12, 04:35 PM
All of my snakes get handled regularly. They even seem to not want to go back in once they get pulled out and I find this to be the case with every last one of them. Some of my Dums even chill in my lap while I recline in the livingroom.
red ink
01-18-12, 05:01 PM
I handle during cleaning and inspections, maybe the odd photo shoot here and there but that's pretty much it.
As far as how much handling is too much...
General rule
Once it starts to affect the snakes behaviour i.e. stress, feeding issues, sudden aggression issues then yep that's too much handling.
red_tail_ale
01-18-12, 06:28 PM
Thanks for all of the replies, guys!
You could say I only "handle" her for about 10 minutes per session, and that's when I take her out and put her back in. Once she's off of me I allow her to roam the room without bothering her (while keeping an eye on her activities, naturally, for her safety). One day I was sitting cross-legged and she sat in my lap for about 20 minutes, because we'd had a power outage while I was at work and it shorted out the bulb so she was cold. Another time, I had her around my shoulder and as soon as I got on the floor she got off and roamed about. Sometimes she'll come back to me (or my laptop, which I strongly discourage her from wrapping around) when cooling off. She's very mild-mannered and I intend to keep her this way, even when she gets too big for me to handle alone.
And as requested, some pictures. First one when I was at my friend's snake room (who is a private breeder). She immediately climbed onto my head, wrapped around it, and stayed there until I had to leave (at this time she was appx.4 feet). The other one is her warming up on my chest, and the last is some of the detail of her patterns. Enjoy!
alessia55
01-18-12, 06:34 PM
She's cute :) Glad you're enjoying her!
Terranaut
01-18-12, 08:20 PM
Just keep doing what your doing. Seems to be working. Snake seems happy. You seem happy. Why change anything :)
exwizard
01-19-12, 01:56 PM
Your snakes don't want to be handled. So in that sense, any handling is too much. However, handling serves 2 purposes it makes you more comfortable around you pets, and you can better asses their general health. I handle each of mine 3-4 times a month mostly for evaluation purposes. I do occasionally let them roam the house as well for about a half hour.
I know all this is a matter of opinion but I do have one question for you. If snakes dont like being handled, why is it that they never want to go back? I have found in my experience with my snakes that this is the case, especially with my '09 Macklots. Theyre always looking for a way out and when I open the tub, they climb right up my arm and again... they NEVER want to go back. I do respect your opinion even if I dont agree. Im just weighing what I see is happening with my own snakes.
exwizard
01-19-12, 01:58 PM
Just keep doing what your doing. Seems to be working. Snake seems happy. You seem happy. Why change anything :)
I second that
theapexgerman
01-19-12, 02:17 PM
when some one come's over to my house in my living room is my nelson he's very curious tho some of my buddy's and Jessica friends want to hold him and he's always game for it then it's hard to get him off of me to go back into the cage i think the snake's get bored in there cage's so they want to get out
exwizard
01-19-12, 02:29 PM
I dont think its a matter of boredom though I dont know just what it is that makes them not want to go back.
theapexgerman
01-19-12, 02:39 PM
i got no clue either maybe they like it out in the open i know my nelson if i put him on the floor he like's to explore
red_tail_ale
01-19-12, 11:02 PM
I sometimes have an issue with my RTB not wanting to go back in her cage. It could either be poor husbandry, or the "flight" response to being picked up and moved. That's my guess, at least.
Terranaut
01-20-12, 05:23 AM
Putting a snake to bed is like putting a kid to bed. The only snake I have that doesn't mind going back in her viv is my female JCP. If we give her some roam time and I leave her viv open she will sooner or later find it and climb back in. My male JCP has the exact husbandry and never wants to go back. My female boa won't let go of me when she goes back. If I set her anywhere else she lets go and ventures out. Back in the viv= arm squeeze until I unwrap her. It was funny the first couple times but now I plan when picking her up to go back. At least I have a good idea of how strong she is.
exwizard
01-20-12, 12:54 PM
Putting a snake to bed is like putting a kid to bed. The only snake I have that doesn't mind going back in her viv is my female JCP. If we give her some roam time and I leave her viv open she will sooner or later find it and climb back in. My male JCP has the exact husbandry and never wants to go back. My female boa won't let go of me when she goes back. If I set her anywhere else she lets go and ventures out. Back in the viv= arm squeeze until I unwrap her. It was funny the first couple times but now I plan when picking her up to go back. At least I have a good idea of how strong she is.
I agree with the whole putting the kid to bed analogy.
snakegirl99
02-12-12, 12:36 AM
i hold my snake like a half hour a day he dont seem to mind except for shed or feedings of course i didnt realize i could be doin my snake harm by holding him dialy sad face
Terranaut
02-12-12, 09:59 AM
Your not. No worries.
My snake is still a baby, but he loves being taken out, he'll curl up on me or wrap around my head and look around, when i go to put him back in his viv he's usually reluctant about it, and when i go to get him i open the top and he'll come out of his hide and climb right onto my hand.
I'm keeping him exactly how I should be, proper humidity, proper heat gradient, etc etc and he loves eating and has all perfect sheds, nor has ever even gone defensive on me never-mind try to bite or anything.
I think it probably varies by snake as well, some snakes probably enjoy being out and about or being held, and others would rather just chill in their hides and wait for food to show up
Im no expert but why would you want a snake if ur only gonna look at it and not enjoy havin it out with you.. yet again just my opinion.
exwizard
02-16-12, 08:02 PM
Im no expert but why would you want a snake if ur only gonna look at it and not enjoy havin it out with you.. yet again just my opinion.
In total agreement there. With me, I dont want any snake I cannot handle or hold but thats just me. All of my snakes are oets and they get treated as such. :)
Gungirl
02-16-12, 08:04 PM
I don't mind having a few I can't handle. I have had my GTP for almost a year and have only touched him once. I like observing them. As long as I have 1 snake I can take out once in a while I am happy. I think I take out my other 3 once a month and that is basically for a quick over all health check. Other than that I have them like you would have fish...
exwizard
02-16-12, 08:08 PM
I don't mind having a few I can't handle. I have had my GTP for almost a year and have only touched him once. I like observing them. As long as I have 1 snake I can take out once in a while I am happy. I think I take out my other 3 once a month and that is basically for a quick over all health check. Other than that I have them like you would have fish...
They say that watching fish is good for the soul and very relaxing. I agree with that since I used to keep fish so to a certain extent, I can relate to that.
Again this is me but with my snakes, its different than that. I dont have showy vivs. I have racks, so I enjoy my snakes even more when I have them out. I will never have an ETB, ATB or GTP for that very reason even though theyre all beautiful snakes.
Gungirl
02-16-12, 08:09 PM
ahh The set up is a huge reason I am ok with it. All of my vivs are home made display style vivs.
I'm quite a tactile person Kat. So I don't think a snake I couldn't handle would be for me. I take my Royal out every day. Bar 48/72 hrs after feeding and when she's in shed .
exwizard
02-16-12, 08:11 PM
ahh The set up is a huge reason I am ok with it. All of my vivs are home made display style vivs.
Theres the bottom line and the common reason. :)
exwizard
02-16-12, 08:13 PM
I'm quite a tactile person Kat. So I don't think a snake I couldn't handle would be for me. I take my Royal out every day. Bar 48/72 hrs after feeding and when she's in shed .
Yes thats the only reason I wouldnt handle them. I made that mistake once, never again... Nasty regurge smelled like something died.
Since I have 15 snakes, I only pull out one or two a day but its enough for them to be used to me and for them to stay tame.
Yes thats the only reason I wouldnt handle them. I made that mistake once, never again... Nasty regurge smelled like something died.
Yeah I heard its bad Wizard. I'm in no rush to find out. Lol
red ink
02-17-12, 06:01 AM
Im no expert but why would you want a snake if ur only gonna look at it and not enjoy havin it out with you.. yet again just my opinion.
Some of us enjoy the snakes and their natural behaviour (well as natural as it can be in a box)... handling is "un-natural" to a snake.
I personally handle mine at a bare minimum so as I don't change their behaviour.
exwizard
02-17-12, 02:35 PM
My snakes love it. Why else would they go on my arm so readily and I have to struuggle to put them back?
Terranaut
02-17-12, 03:10 PM
My snakes love it. Why else would they go on my arm so readily and I have to struuggle to put them back?
Yup all but one of my snakes will use me to climb out of their vivs and 2 will reach out from anyone holding them to try to get back to me. I assume it's because my smell means comfort or familiarity but they do seem to desire to be with me. Our female carpet will reach almost 4' straight out to get back onto me. Its funny because when she does that she locks on hard with the last 1/3 of her body and my friends usually freak out from the squeeze. "hey man. Take her off dude she wants to eat me. Come on man take her " ect....hahaha.
Lankyrob
02-17-12, 05:23 PM
My snakes love it. Why else would they go on my arm so readily and I have to struuggle to put them back?
Mainly because you are nice and warm, partly because they feel secure with you. :)
exwizard
02-17-12, 05:30 PM
Mainly because you are nice and warm, partly because they feel secure with you. :)
Yeah that makes sense and thank you, Rob, for your encouraging words. :) I do pull them out and handle them every chance I get but each snake is not handled every day, however, every day I do handle at least one or two so eventually all fifteen get their turn. In addition to that, on Saturday morning, all tubs and enclosures get cleaned so in that case, all fifteen get handled that same morning. They are used to me and I guess are familiar with my scent, so yeah, what youre saying makes a lot of sense.
exwizard
02-17-12, 05:58 PM
Ok I had to do Euryale's Boaphile early because when doing a spot check, I saw that it needed attn now. Anyway, thats done and now and Euryale is chillin over one shoulder. :) That makes three Dums handled today. Gandalf the Grey, Miss Piggy and Euryale, although Gandalf and Miss Piggys tub will be cleaned with the rest of them tomorrow morning.
PureLine Exotics
02-17-12, 06:13 PM
I would say I handle my boa's every day. Some days longer than others. I notice almost all my animals really enjoy being held, and taken out. I have nearly no aggressive boa's, and almost all of them are awesome feeders. My only caution is that a boa might not want to be handled for hours on end. With most of my boa's its a struggle to get them back into the cage! But every owner believes different.
exwizard
02-17-12, 06:32 PM
With most of my boa's its a struggle to get them back into the cage! But every owner believes different. This is so true with Boas or any other snake Ive had for that matter.
theapexgerman
02-17-12, 06:37 PM
All of my snakes love me cept the bull snake I have to say my durmil loves to be on me and any one esle I saw a 7 foot female dum today to it also was very calm and love to be held kinda hard to get her off just cause of her grip
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