Hybrids?

[Mathayus]

What are everyone's feelings on hybrids? I posted a pic of my snow corn x albino nelson milk on the vertebrates section of Arachnoboards, and just about everyone there abhors hybrids of any kind. What are your thoughts?

By the way, here's a pic of my gorgeous girl Orchid :blink:

[theapexgerman]

i love hybrids nice looking nelson mine kinda dull but old tho =D people said i shouldn't breed my albino nelson male to a female albino het Honduran milk

[red ink]

Some hybrids can be pretty, but not a fan of hybridisation sorry

[FangsAnarchy]

I love hybrids, mostly because genetics fascinate me. This isn't just with snakes though, I think things such as a mule, zorse, wolffin, liger ect are amazing. Pretty snake though

[Swany]

I love hybrids, mostly because genetics fascinate me. This isn't just with snakes though, I think things such as a mule, zorse, wolffin, liger ect are amazing. Pretty snake though

Iv'e never heard of a Zorse, but I'm guessing a Zebra/Horse. Whats the fin in Wolffin ? If you dont mind me asking

[red ink]

Whats the fin in Wolffin ?

A wolf and a dolphin?
A wolf and a fish?
A wolf and an elf?

[Swany]

A wolf and a dolphin?
A wolf and a fish?
A wolf and an elf?

that made me laugh :-D Mental image of a dog with a little green pointy hat

[FangsAnarchy]

Whale and dolphin I think my text book spelled it with two F's though. It has been a while since I took a zoo class.
Also a zorse is zebra stallion and a horse mare
a hebra is the other way around
Hybrids are named based on which was the sire and which species was the dam. Although I think you can breed a zorse to another zorse. I could be wrong since most hybrids are not able to breed... I love speciation and cladagrams and all that jazz.

[Swany]

What are everyone's feelings on hybrids? I posted a pic of my snow corn x albino nelson milk on the vertebrates section of Arachnoboards, and just about everyone there abhors hybrids of any kind. What are your thoughts?

By the way, here's a pic of my gorgeous girl Orchid :blink:

Cool looking snake, I'm new to snake keeping and dont know enough to comment. Sorry for sidelining your thread

Cheers

[Swany]

Whale and dolphin I think my text book spelled it with two F's though. It has been a while since I took a zoo class.
Also a zorse is zebra stallion and a horse mare
a hebra is the other way around
Hybrids are named based on which was the sire and which species was the dam. Although I think you can breed a zorse to another zorse. I could be wrong since most hybrids are not able to breed... I love speciation and cladagrams and all that jazz.

Thanks for the info. it just got me wondering.

Cheers

[Norm66]

Nice looking snake. I'm more knowledgeable about fish than I am reptiles and to be honest I'm pretty much against them with fish but not for the animals themselves, but rather that they're often mis-represented as pure whatever when in fact they're hybrids. Most 'purists' in the fish hobby (cichlids at least) consider fish spawning of the same species but different localities to be hybrids as well.

For myself I have the same opinion for fish or reptiles: so long as it's not mis-represented as pure then I don't have a problem with hybrids. In fact a lot of them are pretty neat, yours for example.

[peterm15]

Nice snake but i do not agree with hybrids.

[KORBIN5895]

Personal feelings aside that's hot.

[shaunyboy]

i am pretty open minded regards hybrids

i have NO problem with the people who breed them

i've heard the purists arguement of.....

its NOT NATURAL,as snakes from a different continents,would never meet in the wild

i think that arguement it utter crap...!!

why.....?

because,its also NOT NATURAL,to keep any reptile in little wooden boxes

so then,should ALL snakes be released into the wild or stop being kept,under the same reason purists say hybrids should not be created.....

that being ITS NOT NATURAL

they also claim its man playing god,again not natural.....

yet imo purist do the exact same thing,play god...

lets face it right from the start,THEY select all the snakes in their collections,THEY then choose which exact two will breed with each other

whether it be to keep bloodlines pure,or to attain the best looking examples,of the pure breed they're working with at the time.imo none of which is NATURAL,its all controlled by the purist,who is meant to be against playing god

so i say as long as the breeder isn't creating deformed snakes,with poor life quality,they should hybridise anything they want

in creating hybrids we further our knowledge of genetics and can create some good looking snakes in the proccess;)

cheers shaun

[peterm15]

i am pretty open minded regards hybrids

i have NO problem with the people who breed them

i've heard the purists arguement of.....

its NOT NATURAL,as snakes from a different continents,would never meet in the wild

i think that arguement it utter crap...!!

why.....?

because,its also NOT NATURAL,to keep any reptile in little wooden boxes

so then,should ALL snakes be released into the wild or stop being kept,under the same reason purists say hybrids should not be created.....

that being ITS NOT NATURAL

they also claim its man playing god,again not natural.....

yet imo purist do the exact same thing,play god...

lets face it right from the start,THEY select all the snakes in their collections,THEY then choose which exact two will breed with each other

whether it be to keep bloodlines pure,or to attain the best looking examples,of the pure breed they're working with at the time.imo none of which is NATURAL,its all controlled by the purist,who is meant to be against playing god

so i say as long as the breeder isn't creating deformed snakes,with poor life quality,they should hybridise anything they want

in creating hybrids we further our knowledge of genetics and can create some good looking snakes in the proccess;)

cheers shaun

peta???

just kidding btw.:p


so i say as long as the breeder isn't creating deformed snakes,with poor life quality,they should hybridise anything they want

in creating hybrids we further our knowledge of genetics and can create some good looking snakes in the proccess;)


I do disagree with this though. A milk and a corn genetically have as much in common as an ape and a human. Creating these snakes could open up a big can of worms that none of us are prepared for.

Honesty though im not trying to discredit the op or the snake. It is a very nice looking animal. To bad its probably a mule because it would make some ver nice offspring.

[CDN_Blood]

Speaking as someone who's been around the block more times than I can count, I can safely say that I am 100% against hybrids.

Intergrades are one thing, and I'm not really keen on that happening either, but hybrids are just plain wrong in my eyes and I think they're a result of selfish people making poor decisions, plain and simple.

Since this is just my opinion, it's neither correct nor incorrect, so don't flood my Inbox with hate mail about it unless your goal is to show the true quality of your character, people :)

[marvelfreak]

I think your snake is cute and would love to see more picks.

I have a question for everyone. Has anyone ever successfully breed a egg laying snake to one that has live born? This as been a debate between me and a friend for some time. I have always wonder if it would be possible?

[CDN_Blood]

HEY! Do NOT derail my threads! I take that personally 'cause I'm a person :)

OOPS! MY bad, I wasn't paying attention. Please disregard and/or delete if you can, lol. Wrong thread <shakes fist at self>

[theapexgerman]

could happen baby's probably come out all deformed or something but yea i believe so

[marvelfreak]

HEY! Do NOT derail my threads! I take that personally 'cause I'm a person :)
:confused::confused::confused: I am confused.

[Gungirl]

:confused::confused::confused: I am confused.

Read up a few... he fixed it.. lol

[Kayla90]

I think your snake is cute and would love to see more picks.

I have a question for everyone. Has anyone ever successfully breed a egg laying snake to one that has live born? This as been a debate between me and a friend for some time. Ihave always wonder if it would be possible?

I have a Northern water snake X Milk snake .. he also happens to be wild caught so it happened naturally..

[marvelfreak]

I have a Northern water snake X Milk snake .. he also happens to be wild caught so it happened naturally..
So one lays eggs and the other has live born?

Todd no problem it happens.

[Kayla90]

So one lays eggs and the other has live born?

Todd no problem it happens.

I believe so.. I plan to try and breed him, when he's of age, he's still just a little guy, and see what happens.. Hopefully all turns out well.

[marvelfreak]

I been trying to find proof that it has been done. I over heard someone in a pet shop a couple years ago say they seen a Rosy Boa x Children's Python cross. My buddy say there's no way i think it could be possible.

[Kayla90]

Well I don't think a boa to a python is possible.. (but if it is it hasn't happened yet, that I know of..) but colubrid to colubrid it is possible... though I'm not sure it would apply to all species of colubrid... XD

[KORBIN5895]

Wouldn't it all come down to a chromosome count?

[alessia55]

Orchid is beautiful :) I don't know where I stand about hybrids yet. As far as looks though, Orchid is a beautiful hybrid

[kernel]

I'm not big on hybrids, but I'm not against them. Intergrades are completely different though, they CAN happen in the wild, but hybrids CAN'T.

[Kayla90]

Orchid is beautiful :) I don't know where I stand about hybrids yet. As far as looks though, Orchid is a beautiful hybrid

I concur, I actually can't wait to see pictures of her when she's bigger :D

[kernel]

Oh, and Orchid is BEAUTIFUL!

[andybe18]

I'm not big on hybrids, but I'm not against them. Intergrades are completely different though, they CAN happen in the wild, but hybrids CAN'T.

They can and have - corns, milks and kings natural locations overlap in some places and there are documneted cases of it happening in the wild - not many granted, but they can.

I do not believe that a rosy boa and childrens python have been crossed -( after watching a program where some guys in Utah had put a spider gene in a goat and got web in the milk I realise that there is so many things possible that I would have sworn was impossible), but a hybrid between a rosy boa and a childrens python that occured naturally I don't believe could be possible.

Not all hybrids are infertile either - I have 2 Imperial Pueblans that are from 2 sets of imperial pueblans breeding. They are strong, healthy, fiesty tings too.

[stephanbakir]

So one lays eggs and the other has live born?

Todd no problem it happens.
I have no idea whats up with that snake lol, I showed it to a few biologist friends and we are all stumped, taxonomy says its a milk snake, but the pattern is 100% obviously a water snake, it ONLY eats fish. Its head pattern is also that of a milk snake...

[KORBIN5895]

They can and have - corns, milks and kings natural locations overlap in some places and there are documneted cases of it happening in the wild - not many granted, but they can.

I do not believe that a rosy boa and childrens python have been crossed -( after watching a program where some guys in Utah had put a spider gene in a goat and got web in the milk I realise that there is so many things possible that I would have sworn was impossible), but a hybrid between a rosy boa and a childrens python that occured naturally I don't believe could be possible.

Not all hybrids are infertile either - I have 2 Imperial Pueblans that are from 2 sets of imperial pueblans breeding. They are strong, healthy, fiesty tings too.
So what breeds were crossed?

[MoreliAddict]

i've heard the purists arguement of.....

its NOT NATURAL,as snakes from a different continents,would never meet in the wild

i think that arguement it utter crap...!!

why.....?

because,its also NOT NATURAL,to keep any reptile in little wooden boxes

so then,should ALL snakes be released into the wild or stop being kept,under the same reason purists say hybrids should not be created.....

that being ITS NOT NATURAL


cheers shaun
^very well said.

i'm for hybrids as long as beautiful snakes are being produced, the carpondro is an excellent example ;):
http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq57/nickstuivenvolt/carpondro4.jpg

[theapexgerman]

wow that's a nice snake

[exwizard]

Nice snake but i do not agree with hybrids.

I agree with this with only one exception. I would love someday to have a wolf dog.

[exwizard]

^very well said.

i'm for hybrids as long as beautiful snakes are being produced, the carpondro is an excellent example ;):
http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq57/nickstuivenvolt/carpondro4.jpg

and this... Wow!

[millertime89]

carpondros and bateaters are about the only crosses that I'm ok with that I can think of other than the ones that naturally occur. Integrades I'm also sort of ok with as long as they're correctly labeled.

[theapexgerman]

I agree with this with only one exception. I would love someday to have a wolf dog.

they got a German Shepherd mix with a timber wolf if that's count's as a wolf dog

[exwizard]

Yes that does count as a wolf dog but Im thinking something along the lines of a wolf/husky or wolf/malamute. Our neighbor down the street has one and hes beautiful. The cool thing is theyre totally legal here.

[theapexgerman]

Ive seen a wolf/saint Bernard before it look kinda funky tho

[exwizard]

Ive never seen one of those. Thats tough to picture.

[theapexgerman]

the owner live like 6 house down from me a few years ago but he move he even had paper work saying it's a wolf/saint Bernard it look like a saint Bernard but instead of fluffy hair it was short hair he was mean tho

[exwizard]

Our neighbors wolf dog is actually quite nice. It was eerie listening to him howl though.

[theapexgerman]

i was always afraid the dog would jump the fence it was a big dog and the fence was only like 4 foot tall but he never did my girlfriend Jessica pepper spray the dog the before the dog got close up to her at the fence

[Gungirl]

i was always afraid the dog would jump the fence it was a big dog and the fence was only like 4 foot tall but he never did my girlfriend Jessica pepper spray the dog the before the dog got close up to her at the fence

I hope I am not reading this right.. the dog was not on your property and yet your girlfriend pepper sprayed it for not reason?

[theapexgerman]

ill go into more detail the chain link fence wasn't up always sometimes it was leaning down some well she was out walking or doing something and her back was at the fence she felt breath on her neck she look around and said there was the dog right next to her face but the chain link fence was there so she grab her mace and spray it out of reaction. i believe the cop's got called and all that the guy who own the dog got taken into dog pound and he got find for not having the right kind of fence up the officer said he would of shot it if that was him

[Gungirl]

Ok.. thank you for explaining that one. I was a little lost and that is why I questioned it.

[theapexgerman]

i should of explain but I'm on my phone and it's hard typing all that on touch screen XD

[Gungirl]

lol.. sorry I made you work for that one.

[theapexgerman]

not a problem I'm always on my phone on here i say bought 90 percent of the time that's one of the reason why i dont got a lot of post to lazy to type

[Mathayus]

After doing some research, I have some new info on Orchid. Like a corn, she was being housed with her sister, not gobbling her down like a milk would. But as you can see she has bands like a milk, not like the saddles of a corn. Her parents were a Snow Corn, and an Albino Nelson's Milk, though I do not know which is the male and the female. If I get any more info, I'll let you guys know.

[exwizard]

I noticed the arrow on top of her head too like a corn.

[Mathayus]

I did too. Saturday when I pick her up I'll see if her scale count makes her a corn or a milk. Or if the hybridization messed up the scales and she would fit into neither. I had the LPS hold her till I could set up her enclosure. I'll be picking her up this weekend.

[exwizard]

There are great examples of hybridization producing beautiful snakes and yours is no exception. I just dont want to own one which is why Ive steered clear from even creamsicles.

[Gungirl]

I think this thread is really lacking pictures....

[marvelfreak]

So is it possible for say a Boa which has live born to be bred to a Python which lays eggs and for them to have babies? Or was the person i heard saying they seen a Rosy Boa x Children Python cross full of crap? Can anyone show me pictures of snakes that are a result of crossing a egg laying snake to one that gives live birth?

[exwizard]

So is it possible for say a Boa which has live born to be bred to a Python which lays eggs and for them to have babies? Or was the person i heard saying they seen a Rosy Boa x Children Python cross full of crap? Can anyone show me pictures of snakes that are a result of crossing a egg laying snake to one that gives live birth?

No that is not possible. The genetics are not compatible.

[theapexgerman]

slim to none of that happening but who know's there's been weirder stuff happen so it could happen

[exwizard]

Its possible to cross a Carpet with a Macklots since genetically, they are similar. Its possible to cross a Corn with a Rat snake or Milk since genetically they are similar. A Rosy Boa to a Children's Python?? No. They are soooo different from each other that that is not possible.

[Snakefood]

slim to none of that happening but who know's there's been weirder stuff happen so it could happen

Ya, like the Platypus!! A mammal that lays eggs :hmm:

[marvelfreak]

Its possible to cross a Carpet with a Macklots since genetically, they are similar. Its possible to cross a Corn with a Rat snake or Milk since genetically they are similar. A Rosy Boa to a Children's Python?? No. They are soooo different from each other that that is not possible.

That's want my buddy says to. There's no way it could be true. Just for the fun of getting him worked up i always argue that it could be done. Then i start talking about how cool it be to cross my Yellow anaconda with my Borneo Blood and try getting Bloody Anaconda.:eek: At which point he always tells me there's no way they could have babies and that i am a sick, twisted S.O.B. lol

[exwizard]

hehe thats funny :)

[millertime89]

a bloody anaconda... now that would be kinda cool looking.

[exwizard]

Can you imagine the girth on a 20' Bloody Anaconda? Wow! ;)

[marvelfreak]

a bloody anaconda... now that would be kinda cool looking.
That's what i am saying. If it could be done that would be sweet as heck. To me that would be the ultimate Hybrid in my book.

[exwizard]

"If" is the biggest 2 letter word in the English language.

[marvelfreak]

Can you imagine the girth on a 20' Bloody Anaconda? Wow! ;)
That just it they should stay under the 10 foot mark and be about a foot round.

[exwizard]

Yeah, all the while still weighing 300-500 lbs.

[marvelfreak]

"If" is the biggest 2 letter word in the English language.
So very true.

[Norm66]

That just it they should stay under the 10 foot mark and be about a foot round.

Sign me up for one from your first litter.

[exwizard]

Litter or Clutch? Yeah this is total fantasy. :)

[marvelfreak]

Litter or Clutch? Yeah this is total fantasy. :)
I know, but aren't fantasy cool? They are a lot alike behavior wise. Todd can tell you that Yellow are the Boas answer to Blood Pythons in the way they behave.

[millertime89]

and that's what makes this great.
I still think the single best looking hybrid snake is the bateater.

[andybe18]

So what breeds were crossed?
Imperial pueblans are Cali KingsxPueblan milks.

[DragonsEye]

Attractive snake, but I too do not agree with hybridization. Too many opportunities to 'muddy' the gene pool. If we could count on people's honesty and knowledgeability to keep track of the hybrids that would be one thing. Unfortunately, we all know that won't happen ... there will always be some who don't care. Another real issue is creating "linkages" that could allow diseases specific to one genus or species more easily cross over to being able to infect another.

[andybe18]

If you don't agree or have a moral arguement against hybrids then you also need to be against a lot of morphs - albinoism, aneryism etc has been introduced into some snakes through hybridization.

[KORBIN5895]

Isn't that where hypo boas come from?

[millertime89]

If you don't agree or have a moral arguement against hybrids then you also need to be against a lot of morphs - albinoism, aneryism etc has been introduced into some snakes through hybridization.

some, but nowhere close to enough to necessitate this statement. Its very species specific.

[andybe18]

some, but nowhere close to enough to necessitate this statement. Its very species specific.
How?
What is species specific?

[red ink]

If you don't agree or have a moral arguement against hybrids then you also need to be against a lot of morphs - albinoism, aneryism etc has been introduced into some snakes through hybridization.


I don't understand, could you elaborate on this......:confused:

[peterm15]

I agree with this with only one exception. I would love someday to have a wolf dog.

Seeing as domestic dogs do not have specific Latin names that is another story in itself.

carpondros and bateaters are about the only crosses that I'm ok with that I can think of other than the ones that naturally occur.

Bateaters and carpondros are the worst IMO, as neither are naturally occurring and are not even close to crossing in the wild. Both are mules last I heard. ( unless bred back to a pure animal)

When it comes to carpets, Latin names are the same minus sub species, so its more like a morph.
If you don't agree or have a moral arguement against hybrids then you also need to be against a lot of morphs - albinoism, aneryism etc has been introduced into some snakes through hybridization.
I suggest you do some actual research on this subject before posting false statements like that.
Morphs are genetic deficiencies that can happen in any animal ( example albino PEOPLE) even blue eyes and blond hair ( which i have) are considered deficiencies and are recessive genes. What breeders do is breed specifically for that trait. Through INBREEDING not hybridization.

As for naturally occurring hybrids. It can happen, I just don’t see the need in spoiling the captive genetic pool with these animals. Unless the animal can breed with one of the same hybrid, there is no need for them. Eg corn x milk X corn x milk. It makes the situation a little better but still no need for it.

[millertime89]

How?
What is species specific?

There aren't very many morphs that I'm aware of that have been crossed from one species to another then bred down to where the desired species blood has essentially diluted the original species blood to where its pretty much a species with the morph of another species.


Bateaters and carpondros are the worst IMO, as neither are naturally occurring and are not even close to crossing in the wild. Both are mules last I heard. ( unless bred back to a pure animal)

I won't disagree, but do you know how many people are producing them? Not very many. And when it does happen, they're VERY clearly specified. You would be correct, a bateater x retic or burm is called a jungle retic or burm. I have never heard of a bateater x bateater breeding, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

I suggest you do some actual research on this subject before posting false statements like that.
Morphs are genetic deficiencies that can happen in any animal ( example albino PEOPLE) even blue eyes and blond hair ( which i have) are considered deficiencies and are recessive genes. What breeders do is breed specifically for that trait. Through INBREEDING not hybridization.

The two examples that I can think of off the top of my head is jungle morelia morph and one of the boa morphs, I want to say salmon or hypo maybe?

As for naturally occurring hybrids. It can happen, I just don’t see the need in spoiling the captive genetic pool with these animals. Unless the animal can breed with one of the same hybrid, there is no need for them. Eg corn x milk X corn x milk. It makes the situation a little better but still no need for it.

I would agree with this in general, but I still love seeing a good bateater.

[red ink]

The two examples that I can think of off the top of my head is jungle morelia morph and one of the boa morphs, I want to say salmon or hypo maybe?


As in Jungle carpet python?
A JCP is not a morph...

[millertime89]

sorry, meant jag, its late and my brain is a little fried from writing so much about the python ban. It seems jag has been crossed into every morelia locale I have seen save viridis.

[jaleely]

Hmm i don't mind hybrids. I am just disallusioned and disappointed with the ball python trade in morphs. Seems like many breeders are out there for the big buck. I go back and forth though.
It's when i meet people who seem to be pulling names of morphs out of the butts and breeding until they get deformities (like, debilitating ones) that bother me.

I had a bad experience with my carpet python, as well. We came back from Australia and wanted a coastal, and when i went to this particular shop, this lady talked me up one side and down the other (i was still VERY new, like a few months into owning my first snake) and it turns out later we found out my "coastal" is a jungle mix. Which, really i'm fine with, but that's not what she was sold to me as. She was also sold to me as a MALE. I suspected female for a long time, but recently got probes. Totally female!
Again, not a problem except for that is not what she was sold to me as.

Anyway...Hybrids are kinda cool in my book. Extreme interbreeding or inbreeding is not.

[exwizard]

Hmm i don't mind hybrids. I am just disallusioned and disappointed with the ball python trade in morphs. Seems like many breeders are out there for the big buck. I go back and forth though.
It's when i meet people who seem to be pulling names of morphs out of the butts and breeding until they get deformities (like, debilitating ones) that bother me.

This is exactly why I dont do nor plan on doing ball pythons.

[peterm15]

...


I didn't want to quote your whole post.

Nothing wrong with anything you said. I assume the morphs you stated are sub species crosses not species ( which is a big difference IMO. ) my problem with bateaters is the fact that it basically started all these hybrid debates.

If you actually google bateater searching within ssnakeas you'll come across some of my first posts about this same subject. I was very uneducated about it and was on the other side of the fence.

[millertime89]

I didn't want to quote your whole post.

Nothing wrong with anything you said. I assume the morphs you stated are sub species crosses not species ( which is a big difference IMO. ) my problem with bateaters is the fact that it basically started all these hybrid debates.

If you actually google bateater searching within ssnakeas you'll come across some of my first posts about this same subject. I was very uneducated about it and was on the other side of the fence.

I would have to do some more digging, but I believe you are correct, one locality boa had a desirable morph so it was crossed into more desirable locality and then the blood was diluted to the point that it was nearly pure, but not quite. You see it in IJ and Bredli Jags, as well as diamond x jungles and other morelia.

I looked for your old posts but didn't find anything. I didn't exactly look very hard either.

[red ink]

In regards to Morelias

The full species are (in Oz)

M. Bredli
M. imbricata
M. carinata
M. Viridis

Any breeding between the above is a hybrid

Carpets
M. spilota spilota - diamond
M. spilota cheynei - jungle
M. spilota vareigata - northwest/darwin
M. spilota mcdowelli - coastal
M. spilota metcalfei - inland

Any breeding between the above Morelia spilota sub-species is an "intergrade"

Any breeding between the carpets (Morelia spilota sp) and the full Morelia species is a hybrid.

Coastal JAG to Bredli = hybrid morph
Coastal JAG to Diamond = intergrade morph

[millertime89]

That's kind of what I figured man, thanks for clearing it up.

[andybe18]

I suggest you do some actual research on this subject before posting false statements like that.
Morphs are genetic deficiencies that can happen in any animal ( example albino PEOPLE) even blue eyes and blond hair ( which i have) are considered deficiencies and are recessive genes. What breeders do is breed specifically for that trait. Through INBREEDING not hybridization.

As for naturally occurring hybrids. It can happen, I just don’t see the need in spoiling the captive genetic pool with these animals. Unless the animal can breed with one of the same hybrid, there is no need for them. Eg corn x milk X corn x milk. It makes the situation a little better but still no need for it.
I suggest the same to you my friend - are you telling me that every single morph is a 100% pure form of that animal? It has happened and hence why I said SOME not all. A small some, but some all the same.

From vmsherp -
"This is a common reason for hybridizing captive reptiles. Combining two forms with attractive appearances to create a third intermediate form which may be still more uniquely attractive is a common goal. Many breeders also use hybridization as a means to introduce desired mutations into species not currently exhibiting them. One of the first projects along these lines was the use of albino Ruthven's Kingsnakes (Lampropeltis ruthveni) to introduce the albino gene to the closely related Gray Banded Kingsnake (L. alterna). "
have a read of that page - http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=673952

Not absolute proof, but a fair few people who disagree with you - Corn Snake Genome Project - CaptiveBred Reptile Forums, Reptile Classified, Forum (http://www.captivebredreptileforums.co.uk/snakes-general/41660-corn-snake-genome-project.html)

Rootbeer corns
Creamsicle Corns
Jungle Jag Carpets

Kingsnake - Woodland Park Zoo, Seattle, WA (http://www.zoo.org/animal-facts/gray-banded-kingsnake) - interesting read - it's not quite so black and white as you would like to think.

http://shemer.mslib.huji.ac.il/dissertations/W/JSL/001491028.pdf
Thamnophis - Sightings (http://www.humboldtherps.com/thamnophis_sightings1.html)

You can not gurantee any snake, (especially colubrids it seems) is 100% pure - and you can not gurantee a wild caught morph is 100% pure form of that snake. Most morphs are from inbreeding - most, but not all.

Enough research? False statement?

[red ink]

Albino darwins are a pure morph

Jungle jag carpets are a pure Morelia spilota intergrade morph

Tiger jungles are a pure JCP morph (at least here anyway)

Hypo coastal and hypo bredlis are pure morphs

[millertime89]

Can anyone confirm or deny that a Timor is a retic x scrub cross? Someone on the retic FB page said that and I just wanted to reach through the computer and smack them up a bit. I know Timors were once classified as a subspecies of p. molurus (indian python, current subspecies p. m. molurus (Indian rock python) and p. m. bivitatus (burm)) but has since been classified as its own species. It wasn't even classified as a morelia or retic subspecies.

[Mathayus]

Finallly got to take her home! Sorry about the bad picture quality, my digital camera has walked off and wont come back lol these were taken with my phone

[shaunyboy]

taken from John Berry Reptiles web site

Python spp "hybrids"
We are currently working with a few Python hybrids. Most python hybrids are fertile when backcrossed and many produce fertile offspring from hybrid to hybrid breeding as well.
Many so called "purists" get all bent out shape when it comes to hybrids, thinking they are some how, not "natural". What most of those who don't agree with hybrids fail to appreciate is that the whole concept of "species" is simply a man-made classification system and doesn't always make sense.
If a "species" can breed with another "species" and produce fertile offspring, that is evidence that the founder stock of that particular "species" at some time in the past came from the same "kind" of animal. In other words, they are related and will have the similar DNA even if their phenotype is different.
Many hybrids occur in the wild where territories overlap. Of course if enough hybrids occur, a new species or variation is established. As long as breeders and keepers maintain good records to satisfy the purists, I don't see any problem with hybrids at all . After all they are like the stunning variants and cultivars we see in the botanical world many of which are now readily accepted and totally established as new kinds (or species) of plant but are in fact totally "artificially" produced through selective, captive propagation.
check this link from National Geographic for more info on naturally occurring hybrids creating new variations within a type ... or as they put it a new species :
Interspecies Sex: Evolution's Hidden Secret? (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/03/070314-hybrids.html)
(Please note this is NOT some new evidence for MACRO evolution as all the types remained the same .. birds are still birds, snakes are still snakes, etc It is however evidence of natural selection at work which of course ALL CREATIONISTS* totally agree with)
* Creationists believe the Biblical account of creation

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

Good read!

[andybe18]

Good read shaun - but as I found out, some people will read and comment on only what is convenient for them.

[millertime89]

Shaun always has good links about almost anything morelia related.

[shaunyboy]

Shaun always has good links about almost anything morelia related.


it's an illness mate lol :D

cheers shaun

[peterm15]

Again.
I am not talking SUB species morphs, but species morphs,
corn x king, burm x retic

I am sorry for my rude comment directed towards you. And to clarify i did misread your orginal post, and thought your comments were more directed towards balls and boa morphs, being crossed like a bateater or a blood x ball. As for Lampropeltis, stupid me, i forgot about the morph/species crosses there..you have me me on that one and again am sorry for acting so rudely.

[Freebody]

i agree with shaun 100% from his first quote, i would also say as long as the said breeder of the hybrid makes it 100% clear what said snakes are to the buyer. other that that, i Realy like it, i find it facinating that they ever worked in the first place, then you get some pretty nice snake like the one first posted out of the deal. :)

[andybe18]

Again.
I am not talking SUB species morphs, but species morphs,
corn x king, burm x retic

I am sorry for my rude comment directed towards you. And to clarify i did misread your orginal post, and thought your comments were more directed towards balls and boa morphs, being crossed like a bateater or a blood x ball. As for Lampropeltis, stupid me, i forgot about the morph/species crosses there..you have me me on that one and again am sorry for acting so rudely.
That's ok - we all have moments, lol - it being in the colubrid section, I hadn't even thought of python/boa hybrids until mentioned.

[millertime89]

I don't even check which section most threads are in anymore, I probably should.