Question about Desert Morph

[Maclyal]

I have heard alot of people say that Desert Females don't lay viable eggs.
Has anyone here done any breeding of these?
If so has anyone gotten a female to lay viable eggs & did the babies survive?

I love the patterning, but that kind of money on a maybe is a bit of a risk.

[KORBIN5895]

I assume your talking about a BP. Other than that no clue.

[Maclyal]

I assume your talking about a BP. Other than that no clue.

Yes. Desert Ball Python. sorry about the mixup.
I forget to add that, because all I work with is BP.
I not too smart sometimes.:wacky:

[KORBIN5895]

Wel I ain't vary smrt ither. Post up a pic!

[Norm66]

I hadn't read that. I wonder if there's a site somewhere that lists all the "problem" morphs of BPs. I'm only aware of spider and woma wobble issues and the caramel kinking issue but there may be others with issues too. I would very much like to avoid any of those morphs personally.

[Gungirl]

Yes. Desert Ball Python. sorry about the mixup.
I forget to add that, because all I work with is BP.
I not too smart sometimes.:wacky:


At least you posted it in the right forum:D

I second the pictures please...

I can think of at least 2 people that should be able to help you with your question.. give it a little while I don't see either of them online often.

[Maclyal]

I hadn't read that. I wonder if there's a site somewhere that lists all the "problem" morphs of BPs. I'm only aware of spider and woma wobble issues and the caramel kinking issue but there may be others with issues too. I would very much like to avoid any of those morphs personally.

breeding cinnamon to cinnamon can cause the nose to have a duckbill shape sometimes too.

there are a few other morphs with issues also. will see if I can find the info again & post it.

[Norm66]

Thanks, I sure would appreciate it! :)

[mattchibi]

This will answer your questions about deserts:
Desert problems (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?161130-Desert-problems)

Desert females are *RUMOURED* to not be able to raise up viable clutches. There is still a lot of mystery and lots that is unknown. We, in the ball python industry, have heard alot about Desert females not producing good clutches, but who do we really know that has come out and said that they have tried and failed? As for a thread containing all of the known genetic flaws from ball pythons, heres a short list that I know about:

Caramel Albinos - problems with kinking & female subfertility
Super Cinnamons & Super Black Pastels - problems with kinking and duckbilling
Spider & Woma - wobble

I personally am avoiding caramel albinos because they have come out with the Ultramel morph that is proven not to kink, and I will also be avoiding any pairings that will result in Super cinnys or Super Black pastels because I don't want to deal with a severely kinked hatchling that needs to be euthanized. Spider wobbles dont really take away from their ability to live a full life and breed so I won't be avoiding that one. Hope this helped!

[youngster]

Out of curiosity. What is duck billing?

[stephanbakir]

Eye deformities
http://home.comcast.net/~mickeysnightmare/MNHealth/Birth%20Defects/Frog%20eyed%20lg.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~mickeysnightmare/MNHealth/Birth%20Defects/Buldging%20eyes%20DSD%209-11%20lg.jpg
Duck bills
http://home.comcast.net/~mickeysnightmare/MNHealth/Birth%20Defects/Super%20Cinny%20lg.jpg

[KORBIN5895]

What's wrong with duck billing? Does it hamper quality of life? The eye deformity looks kinda cool..... in an odd sorta way.

[mattchibi]

What's wrong with duck billing? Does it hamper quality of life? The eye deformity looks kinda cool..... in an odd sorta way.

Duckbilling is definitely not the worst of deformities, I believe. I cant speak as to whether a duckbilled ball python can have a good quality of life; however, I do know that kinking is much more severe. Heres a video by Ralph Davis depicting the kinked caramels that he keeps in his collection. Something interesting to note is that *some* of these not so severely kinked caramels can actually live a full life, and maybe even breed. However, some of them are so severely kinked that they need to be put down by the breeder

Kinked Caramel Albinos - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baquu5GYyVA)

As for the super black pastel that stephan posted, to be honest I dont see the duckbilling there. Many people believe that some of the "duckbilled" super black pastels and cinnys arent actually duckbilled, its rumoured that the all black top of the head creates an illusion that makes it look like the top jaw is much bigger than the bottom. Although I still have no idea who is right!

Heres another interesting video by Ben Siegel: His eye-less ball python
seymour the eyeless ball python - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aXLzznMFBQ)

[stephanbakir]

The eye deformities I linked are actually pretty bad, and with time the eyes tend to pop because of the pressure they are under.
Some duck billed animals can live full lives, some can't.

[mykee]

As of right now, with all the "breeder-sized" female deserts out there, there has never been a picture of a female desert sitting on eggs. Which leads to the question; why?
It's kept quiet because money is king for the people who are heavily invested in the project.
The money involved in ball pythons tends to bring out the worst in a lot of breeders.

[jaleely]

The duck bills i've seen is also more dramatic and deformed form the side view. From the top, it just seems to be a more dramatic curve shape.

Wow that eyeless python is actually *really* cute....and creepy...but totally cute. I wonder how he's doing now!

Those photos of the eye popping ones though are sad! boo! :( and that's why i think morphs and getting cool colors for snakes is not really worth it when it's making a bunch of deformed babies that have to be put down, fed to another snake, or live a life with potential hardships. Why create all that just because you want a fancy color? I just don't get it. Go carve something with your hands if you want to be the master of creation or something.

[stephanbakir]

The duck bills i've seen is also more dramatic and deformed form the side view. From the top, it just seems to be a more dramatic curve shape.

Wow that eyeless python is actually *really* cute....and creepy...but totally cute. I wonder how he's doing now!

Those photos of the eye popping ones though are sad! boo! :( and that's why i think morphs and getting cool colors for snakes is not really worth it when it's making a bunch of deformed babies that have to be put down, fed to another snake, or live a life with potential hardships. Why create all that just because you want a fancy color? I just don't get it. Go carve something with your hands if you want to be the master of creation or something.
MOST genes don't have "fatal flaws" and most genes don't even have a high chance of deformities if your incubation temperatures are stable.
I don't know BPs but with the snakes I work with, there are NO fatal genes or flawed genes in any of the known mutations.

[Terranaut]

Funny but when I read about problems due to inbreading/selective breading I can't help think of the banjo in The Deliverence :)

[mykee]

"and most genes don't even have a high chance of deformities if your incubation temperatures are stable"

Wrongo!
Genetics has NOTHING to do with incubation temps....