QUestion about venemous snakes, and new data.

[wolfwing]

I read that some new data actually shows virtually all snakes are venemous, but their potency is too low to effect humans due to dilution in saliva and weakness to inject with none hollow fangs. In fact the living relatives of the ancestors of snakes have the same venom themselves. I can post Data on this if allowed, but not sure on restrictions, though curious how much new stuff has come about this the data I've read is a few years old from 2005, found this looking up evolution of snake venom.

My question is, have they actually compiled a list of what snakes have venom or not? I can see constrictors losing the venom as they don't nescarily need it, but wondering if anyone has actually tested enough snakes and such.

[Snakefood]

question # 1, yes you can post links to studies and research.

#2, haven't a clue!!

[Norm66]

That's interesting though I've never heard it before. It's semantics though really. What is venom that isn't potent enough to hurt you? Saliva.

I'd be interested in reading the report you mention though.

[Snakefood]

Also, it may be less "venom" and more of a high bacterial count in the snakes mouth that may cause whatever reaction they are saying is caused by venom.

Just a thought

[RandyRhoads]

That's interesting though I've never heard it before. It's semantics though really. What is venom that isn't potent enough to hurt you? Saliva.



Well said.

[Swany]

Also, it may be less "venom" and more of a high bacterial count in the snakes mouth that may cause whatever reaction they are saying is caused by venom.

Just a thought

I'm sure I read somewhere not so long ago that the latest thinking regarding komodo dragons is that its saliva is venomous. It was always thought it was the bacteria in the saliva that did the damage.

[stephanbakir]

Have studies been done? Yes
Have they been done on every species? No

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-venomous-forum/89389-very-informative-info-regarding-snake-venom.html

[stephanbakir]

I'm sure I read somewhere not so long ago that the latest thinking regarding komodo dragons is that its saliva is venomous. It was always thought it was the bacteria in the saliva that did the damage.
Komodo dragons ARE venomous, it was proven by Bryan Grieg Fry

[BarelyBreathing]

I'm sure I read somewhere not so long ago that the latest thinking regarding komodo dragons is that its saliva is venomous. It was always thought it was the bacteria in the saliva that did the damage.

It's true. My brother is studying monitor venom.

[Will0W783]

From what I understand, there is no definitive proof that all snakes are venomous. In fact, I believe that there are only 300 out of about 2700-2800 species that are venomous. These include the very mildly venomous opisthoglyphous snakes. Venom is eseentially modified saliva that has developed specialized enzymes and proteins designed to cause a fast-acting, devastating effect in the bitten item. However, ALL saliva contains enzymes and proteins that break down food- digestion begins in the mouth. Therefore, is all saliva in fact "venom"? If we want to look at venom that way, then we have to consider ALL animals venomous.

[Swany]

Komodo dragons ARE venomous, it was proven by Bryan Grieg Fry

Cheers man :-)

[KORBIN5895]

From what I understand, there is no definitive proof that all snakes are venomous. In fact, I believe that there are only 300 out of about 2700-2800 species that are venomous. These include the very mildly venomous opisthoglyphous snakes. Venom is eseentially modified saliva that has developed specialized enzymes and proteins designed to cause a fast-acting, devastating effect in the bitten item. However, ALL saliva contains enzymes and proteins that break down food- digestion begins in the mouth. Therefore, is all saliva in fact "venom"? If we want to look at venom that way, then we have to consider ALL animals venomous.

So then humans are venomous?

[stephanbakir]

So then humans are venomous?
Don't tell Kayla all animals are venomous, it will toss the months of teaching her the difference between venom and poison out the window :P

[RandyRhoads]

So then humans are venomous?

Only certain sub species.

[red ink]

So then humans are venomous?

Considering the ambiguous use of th term venomous in most instances, then yes they can be...

Humans infected with meningal cochal (which can be potentially fatal) or the common cold can all be passed though saliva.

[KORBIN5895]

Only certain sub species.

You mean women?

[wolfwing]

yeah, I was refering to what fry's learn, since the reptiles that snakes evolved from have venom, that would mean any snakes that don't have them would be those that lost it, probably constrictors and such those that have aother methods to kill where the venom could be lost with little effect.

Clues to the Origin of Snake Venom - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/science/22venom.html)

But like I mentioned they were from 2003/2005, can't get any new information, most sites don't mention venom on all snakes. So can't tell if it's just conventional wisdom hasn't caught up on the new information, or if he's just been debunked and such.

Heh I've always found this one frustrating thing about the internet :> It can be so hard to get new information on discoveries like this.

From what that says, all snakes or most are venemous, it's just the potency is to weak due to a few factors to effect humans, so it was never really examined till recently. Which makes sense, we tend to only think of what kills us. As mentioned Komodo dragons and others of that group are venemous, the bacteria help, but the rate at which animals were effected were too fast for bacteria.

[stephanbakir]

Komodos have a venom gland which can be looked at using an MRI, it looks almost identical to that of a hila or beaded lizard. The video is called Natural World, Secrets of the Dragon.

[Swany]

Komodos have a venom gland which can be looked at using an MRI, it looks almost identical to that of a hila or beaded lizard. The video is called Natural World, Secrets of the Dragon.

i remember reading it somewhere, but it might have been a while ago

[stephanbakir]

Komodos have a venom gland which can be looked at using an MRI, it looks almost identical to that of a hila or beaded lizard. The video is called Natural World, Secrets of the Dragon.

i remember reading it somewhere, but it might have been a while ago
You can watch the how they figured it out by watching the above listed documentary.

[Swany]

Cheers Stephan ;-)

[wolfwing]

So has there been any more information on this? Or still being worked on? And is it verified that snakes are venemous?

[wolfwing]

OMG :> Irony of irony, someone just posted on youtube a video on venom evolution from 2008, so still a bit old, but Evolve Episode 8 Venom (History Channel) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uafxz6A9BkY) here is information talking about the findings for anyone interested.