UVB question.....advice needed please!

[ladyjustice33]

Hey guys.....I'm building new enclosures for my beardies. Each beardie will have a 1 1/2 foot by 1 1/2 foot by 4 foot wooden enclosure. I've decided to go with a mercury vapor bulb for the basking spot since it emits UVA, UVB, and heat. Since the bulb socket will be installed inside the enclosure and the bulb will be about 10-11 inches from the basking area, I am looking at the powersun 100 watt MVB and the solar glo 125 watt MVB. Those seem to have decent reviews for the price. I'm kinda wary of the UVB's for two reasons, one, some have caused eye issues from what I have read and my friends/co-worker had a beardie that lived for 15 years and was very healthy. He only used a house bulb and gave calcium every day. No UVB bulb. I saw the beardie in his final years and he was very healthy for such an old guy. Please tell me what kind of UVB you use and any bad experiences you have had with any bulbs.........thanks a lot!!

Kat

[ZARADOZIA]

I have both Zoomed and Exo Terra UVB Bulbs and have not had any issues with either. I have actually had positive results because of them. (Flood light style *Mercury Vapor* - not coiled. I rely on them for both heat and UVB)

Rhea is a 4 yr old dragon that I got in December. Her coloring was charcoal grey and black. She was inactive, not curious, and would barely eat.

Her previous owner did not have her set up with a UVB bulb, did not feed her vitamins, fed her lettuce, fed her premade “dragon food” (nasty stuff), and did not feed her a variety of fruits & veggies. Did have a basking light but did not provide night time heat.

I placed a 160 watt UVB bulb, CHE, and fed fruits and veggies. Today Rhea is light grey (she’s a regular dragon) with hints of yellow around her face. She is alert, active and last night had a blast running across my living room floor. She has gained weight since and is beginning to turn into a very pretty dragon considering her lineage and previous husbandry.

Since I have seen the before and after effects of UVB lighting, I swear by it. I also researched it affecting their eyes and found very little on the subject and some debunked it. Either way there isn’t any physical proof beyond hearsay that it actually causes eye problems.
UVB Research:
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/enclosure-reptile-room-showcase/89664-uva-uvb-info-interesting-reading.html

Facts:
Dragons that are not given UVB lighting are darker in color. Lack of UVB can cause health issues (MBD Bone Disease- treated with UVB light and calcium). It is not necessary to provide a UVB light bulb but they need UVB to produce D3 to absorb Calcium, so taking them outside to get direct sunlight is good for them.

If you use a UVB bulb, do not use D3 supplements, do not use calcium fortified with D3. The body regulates the amount of D3 created by UVB and from diet (food) but it cannot regulate the amount from supplements. D3 can be toxic and it is possible to OD on it. (It’s rare, but who wants to take the chance?)

Personal opinion:
I prefer UVB lighting because it is how nature intended for them to get D3. Feeding proper fruits and veggies plus UVB means you don’t have to worry as much about over medicating or under medicating (vitamins). Feeding them too much vitamins just as well as not enough can cause health issues, liver damage etc.

What I don’t like about feeding a “Sprinkle” of vitamins is that it is not an exact measurement. Vitamins are dangerous and if given too much they can kill. Vitamins “designed” for bearded dragons do not list the vitamin list or percentage. Thankfully it is not possible to Overdose on Calcium because the body can only absorb so much at one time. But dragons can easily over dose on vitamin A.


I have no idea if any of this is helpful to you. It is just what I have learned based on my research and what I have experienced.

(For those that take vitamins – take calcium at 500 mg or less, but take it twice a day or more so that it equals 1000 mg intake for the day. Taking 1000 mg at once is useless because your body cannot absorb that much at one time and you are wasting money. You can also benefit from cutting it in half and taking it in the morning and late afternoon.)

[Valvaren]

When I bought Thil was pretty much the same way as Zaradozia described Rhea, she was not cared for properly and it was showing even for a baby. I was given a coil bulb with her that caused lots of issues with her, switched to the same brand but a tube and it was still terrible though her eyes got a bit better. Finally switched to a ReptiSUN 10.0 tube, cost me 60 bucks to get it but it was worth it like nothing else. I would really look into it because though I have heard of those all in one bulbs being good I would still prefer a tube solely because it can span a good portion of the tank, not sure what their range is. Lots of dragons owners do different things and some get lucky, but i've seen MBD, and its terrible and I would never risk it. Only the best.

[ladyjustice33]

Thanks to both of you! Zara, I believe I am going to try either the zoomed powersun 100watt or the exo terra solar glo 125watt. Going with the lower wattage since the bulb will be somewhat close to the basking area. I'm also going to make an outside enclosure that has wheels so I can roll it from my porch to front yard and when it warms up let them sun outside for at least 30 minutes a day, supervised by me of course. I am going to stop sprinkling the vitamin mixture on their food asap and just use calcium for now since they can't overdose on the calcium. I give both a mixture of greens, collard and mustard, as a base veggie every morning and add in squash, bell pepper, green beans, and a little apple a couple times a week for variety. They are still juvenile to sub-adult, so are much more interested in the dubia and superworms than the veggies at the moment. Once I finish up their new enclosures, I will post some pics. I will post pics of Buliwyf and Saphira as soon as Bull comes out of shed and Saphira acclimates a little more, she has only been with me about a week. I love all my reptiles, but I tell you what, these little beardies have a way of stealing your heart, my husband says I give them more attention than anything else, lol, but I can't help it!!!

[beardeds4life]

I would not use coil bulbs those have caused dragons to go blind

[ladyjustice33]

Yeah...I've heard bad things about the coil bulbs and will steer clear of those.

[beardeds4life]

ya you should

[Valvaren]

They can overdose on calcium. There are directions on how much and when to use it for a purpose, I've seen dragons given to much and it isn't pretty, it can cause problems.

[SpOoKy]

They can overdose on calcium. There are directions on how much and when to use it for a purpose, I've seen dragons given to much and it isn't pretty, it can cause problems.

Very true. You have to be very careful with any supplementation.

[Valvaren]

Also you should supplement with the vitamin, Thil has been on calcium and multivitamin since i've had her. Her calcium has dropped since she got older but she still takes it and the multivitamin.

[red ink]

A MVB would be too hot in those dimensions mate, they pump out a heck of a lot of heat. I have always used MVBs for my dragons till only about a month ago and I have a 9 year old dragon.

In my old set up the MVB was 18 inches away from the basking spot in a wooden enclosure (inside) and the basking spot was hitting 40C so at 10-11 inches away in your proposed set up I would dare say you are looking at temps in excess of 50C.

[ladyjustice33]

Hmmm.....didn't realize the MVB's would get that hot. I was told the solar glo 125 watt or powesun 100 watt should be no more than 12 inches away. A few people on the other forum I was on said they had problems getting the temp high enough with the lower watt MVB and had to go to the 160 watt.

[Lankyrob]

We used solarglo 160w in our lizards vivs when we had them - they were 18 inches from the basking spot and gave a hot spot of about 120f - 140f.

[peterm15]

Hmmm.....didn't realize the MVB's would get that hot. I was told the solar glo 125 watt or powesun 100 watt should be no more than 12 inches away. A few people on the other forum I was on said they had problems getting the temp high enough with the lower watt MVB and had to go to the 160 watt.

If you read the directions inside the sloar glow box it states that it shouldnt be CLOSER then 18' to the animal ( it is fine if it is though, beardies, uros and chams and have never had a problem.

With my wooden beardie enclosure i needed very little heat in a decently cold room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/finished029.jpg
The dimentions are basically 48x24x24

I wired ceremic fixtures for heat (2) but only ever needed one. They are wired to dimmers to control the heat and in a room at 60 deg f. I was able to get a basking spot of 110 with a 60w household bulb dimmed down.

I needed to install vents on top of the cage bacause with a 60w bulb i was overheating the cage. ( cold side would stay around 95 deg.)

As for UVB a cheap industrial fixture with a floresent.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/Picture025.jpg

Just something to think about. Solar glows have never lasted me more then 8 mnths. my lights cost me less then that per year.