Future potential breeding plan

[Norm66]

Becky and I have talked about potentially breeding our BPs down the line when ours grow up. All of our current ones are 2011 babies so it's obviously still a few years off but this is when we need to start planning whether we decide to actually go through with it or not.

My plan is to have two males and four females over the next few months and down the road have the two boys each breed two of the girls. We'll be buying all babies and most likely all single morph animals.

What we have:

Boys- normal (most likely won't be bred), an enchi and a pastel.

Girls- Pinstripe.

The morphs all seem to be pretty good examples though I know that pastels tend to brown out so we'll watch and only breed him if he's above average.

So that leaves us needing to get 3 females. I would like to eventually produce something along the lines of the first two shown in this thread (sorry, another forum: Enchi-Mojave-YB Post shed Pics - Bush-League Breeders Club (http://www.reptileradio.net/reptileradio/showthread.php?t=34257&highlight=mochi))

That means we still need a Yellow Belly and a Mojave female though I think a lesser in that mix would also look great. Lessers and Mojaves both appeal to me just as single morphs so I like the idea of them. The yellow belly doesn't so much but it seems integral to the project I have in mind (plus the possibilities of producing ivories further down the line).

Initially I'm thinking of breeding the pastel to the pinstripe (potential lemon-blast) and maybe a mojave (potential pastave) both of which I think are great looking plus seem like popular combos. Then the enchi to the lesser (or butter) and the yellow belly would both be potential stepping stones to my goal of producing something like the one in the link above. Plus the 2nd generation would then have the possibility of producing BELs (super mojave or lesser or combo) and maybe Ivory (yellow belly super) but of course that's 6 years down the road.

Like I said, this is early days and we may not even go through with it when it comes time. My main interest is in having cool looking snakes to raise and enjoy primarily as pets but have the possibility down the line of breeding them with something resembling a plan rather than just throwing stuff together.

Any suggestions or obvious mistakes in reasoning I've overlooked are more than welcome. I'm just bounding ideas around in my head and this seemed like a good idea to get some structure to them.

Thanks for reading. :wacky:

[Valvaren]

I think you have a good idea of what you are getting into, I'm not really familiar with what is terribly popular as far as morphs, I do know up here our market is saturated with BP's and it is very very hard to find homes, I have quite few friends that are breeding and I don't even have many friends just to show you how many their actually are.

Lots of them still have large amounts of babies from last year that they have tried to give away in hopes of not having to give them to pet stores, now while a good portion are normals there are quite a few yellow belly and mojaves. Its just something to think about with breeding is now a days you really have to try and get as little single morphs as possible.

For instance, friends of mine had a clutch of mojaves, spiders, pastels and a lesser bee. I bought one of their pastels, they are still sitting with all the spiders and mojaves and the only interest is in the hold back Lesser bee, you end up creating so many 'unwanted' babies to get one that everyone wants.

Its just my opinion that I feel you either go big or go home with bps, as in save up and buy the really really high end morphs where you end up with as much of these 'special' animals as you can.

Another guy I know is starting from the bottom breeding a bunch of single gene animals just so he can make something fantastic all his own from scratch. He has 20+ babies he can't sell that no one wants, he can't keep them all, he can't sell them all, they end up in pet stores.

Anyway like I stated I have no idea what your market is like down there and how flooded it is but we have enough babies on craiglist and kijiji to make sure everyone and their dog could have one (exaggeration but you get my point).

[bigsnakegirl785]

I saw you said you plan on keeping them as pets, do you also plan on selling some? There, of course will be more than a couple in a clutch and it sounds like you're breeding more than just one. If not, I'd suggest just breeding one or two depending on finances. If so, find out if anyone is willing to buy. As far as breeding, I couldn't help. lol

[Norm66]

Yea, getting rid of babies is something we'll have to do more research on and will be a major deciding factor whether or not we do it. I do have one guy who does shows who will buy or trade babies we produce. Morphs anyway, not sure about normals. I don't want to breed any normals to try and limit the amount of normals produced.

I should have known that's where this thread would have gone rather than what I actually asked about. LOL.

[Snakefood]

yeah, no thread stays completely on topic all the time, but can be turned around!!

Things I would check on before deciding to breed:

1) how much competition in BP breeding is in your area, also see what they are producing ( no point producing what everyone else is, right??)

2) put out ads in the free classifieds asking BP lovers what they would want to buy, or see created in thier area, it may match up with what your thinking and it may not, but good to know either way.

3)Only breed one or two pairs/year. That way your not overloaded with thousands of snakes!! At least they aren't like Corns who can have 45 eggs!! (uncommon, but has happened)

4) find your nearest reptile show and reserve a table for the show.

5) breed your own rats!! saves tons of $$ when your feeding multiple snakes!!

These are the things I have done in my area, as this will be my first season of breeding corns.

[mattchibi]

Might want to consider getting some double gene males if you want to achieve your goal faster. Good luck!

[red ink]

Like I said, this is early days and we may not even go through with it when it comes time. My main interest is in having cool looking snakes to raise and enjoy primarily as pets but have the possibility down the line of breeding them with something resembling a plan rather than just throwing stuff together.

Any suggestions or obvious mistakes in reasoning I've overlooked are more than welcome. I'm just bounding ideas around in my head and this seemed like a good idea to get some structure to them.

Thanks for reading. :wacky:

If the main interest is having cool looking snakes to raise as pets with the possibility of breeding them down the line.... why don't you just buy the cool looking hatchies already available?

It will save you the big run around. That way there's not six years of upkeep on something that may or may not happen on multiple snakes which will not guarantee that you will get the snakes you want out of breeding them.

They're already there just buy the cool snakes, breed them down the line and create something even cooler.

[mykee]

I produce anywhere from 150-200 babies every season for the last nine and I am always sold out by Christmas time. As long as you're willing to ship and can be flexible with your prices, you'll have no problem selling any morph, and even normals.
Good luck.

[millertime89]

I produce anywhere from 150-200 babies every season for the last nine and I am always sold out by Christmas time. As long as you're willing to ship and can be flexible with your prices, you'll have no problem selling any morph, and even normals.
Good luck.

the breeders I've spoken with have all said something along the lines of this. Barter/haggle, sell, ship, profit. Get it done my friend. Sounds like you know what you want and are thinking carefully about how to get there, best of luck.

[dshin963]

Hey btw Mike come next season my and my buddy will probably be interested in some balls :D

[beardeds4life]

I think you should buy adults and breed what YOU like and what is popular (as long as you like it to) because buy the time those ard ready to breed those morhs probably will not be as popular or as expensive

[Maclyal]

I think you should buy adults and breed what YOU like and what is popular (as long as you like it to) because buy the time those ard ready to breed those morhs probably will not be as popular or as expensive

Nothing against buying adults, I did that with the majority of mine, just for the quick capital it produces.
However there is something to be said for watching them grow up too.
depends on whether your in it for money or just for the fun of raising them.
I personally like both aspects of the hobby.

[Norm66]

I'm strictly in it for the experience of raising snakes. Plus, who knows, in two or three years when mine are grown up I might not be interested in breeding at all. Or maybe I'll be more interested. I'm not one to rush into things and if I were to buy adults and breed them now it would definitely be rushing into it. Besides, have you seen the prices of adults? Cost-prohibitive is the word that comes to mind. :)

That said, we picked up a beautiful female mojave this weekend so we're one step closer. Now we're on the lookout for a lesser/butter female and probably a yellowbelly famale.

[Maclyal]

sounds like your well on your way to having very happy snakes & alot of fun in the process.
I just started collecting last year, had no interest in snakes until my buddy had me babysit his collection for a couple months.
now I'm hooked.
it's fun watching them grow, but your first clutch of babies & you will be hooked even worse on the breeding, because then you get to watch them poke their heads out to explore a new world.
most times they don't like what they see & go right back in. then your sitting there trying to talk them out so you can see them.
makes a full grown man act like a complete fool trying to talk a baby snake to come out of an egg.:laugh:

[Norm66]

LOL, this I believe. Definitely see myself doing exactly that.

[millertime89]

seeing the babies hatch and grow is exactly why I want to get into breeding. I can't wait to see those cute tiny faces poking up at me through the eggs, even though I know they'll be afraid of me and try and take my fingers for lunch.

[Maclyal]

seeing the babies hatch and grow is exactly why I want to get into breeding. I can't wait to see those cute tiny faces poking up at me through the eggs, even though I know they'll be afraid of me and try and take my fingers for lunch.

no fingers for lunch. they usually try to ball up or slither away.

however if you keep moving your finger in front of them after their first shed, it will help trigger a feeding response.
I do it to every one of them from day one to get them to eat as soon as possible.

but they can't bite hard enough to even break skin at that size.

[millertime89]

BPs maybe... but not SD retics like what I want to breed!

[Maclyal]

BPs maybe... but not SD retics like what I want to breed!

I don't think I would want to be anywhere close to the feeding end of a retic, not even a small one.
I'll stick with my balls, they're easier to play with.:laugh:

[Norm66]

I'll stick with my balls, they're easier to play with.:laugh:


LOL. too funny.....

I'm re-thinking my plans for two males & 4 females. Now I'm thinking I might go 3 & 3.

If I put the enchi male w/ the mojave female and hopefully get a baby with both genes I can add that to a YB down the line and have a shot to produce the ones I posted above.

Then the lesser male has the possibility of going with the mojave famale for for maybe a BEL or maybe the first year to the pinstripe for a potentially cool mix.

I really need to sit down and figure this out on paper I'm just thinking out loud (so to sepeak) here.

[mattchibi]

LOL. too funny.....

I'm re-thinking my plans for two males & 4 females. Now I'm thinking I might go 3 & 3.

If I put the enchi male w/ the mojave female and hopefully get a baby with both genes I can add that to a YB down the line and have a shot to produce the ones I posted above.

Then the lesser male has the possibility of going with the mojave famale for for maybe a BEL or maybe the first year to the pinstripe for a potentially cool mix.

I really need to sit down and figure this out on paper I'm just thinking out loud (so to sepeak) here.

Plan everything out on paper before you make any more purchases. Then keep doing more and more research about breeding & what morphs to choose as a goal. I think you will find that in a few weeks, your goals on what morph you want to achieve might change. And if they dont change, then now you know exactly what you are missing and need to get :) Theres always more breeders with the morphs that you want, so there is really no rush.

In terms of bang for your buck (i know your not doing it for money, but even hobbies need to be financially viable), I think 3 males for 3 females may not be the best idea, unless you have specific plans for those males down the line. You also likely will produce some decent males after your first year of breeding, which could be held back to be bred the next year. Like Bryan from BHB said once, you cant plan TOO much, but you CAN plan too little!

[Norm66]

Well, the only hurry is that I don't still want to be buying breeders this time next year because that will put me a year farther back. I'm actually only a yellow belly (and a few years and a good amount of luck) away from having what I need to produce my goal but I really, really like lessers and a mojave/lesser (or butter) BEL would be a really powerful combo to have....

You're right though. Planning is never a bad thing and it's really fun. Like I said I'm just thinking out loud here.

[mykee]

Here's a suggestion and I'll share it with you for free; Scrap the 2.2 or 3.3 or whatever you've got now and get one awesome double or triple co-dom male and five single or double females. You'll thank me in three years when they're ready to breed.
Pairing up 1.1 as a breeding project is so 1994. Multiple females are the key.

[Norm66]

Here's a suggestion and I'll share it with you for free; Scrap the 2.2 or 3.3 or whatever you've got now and get one awesome double or triple co-dom male and five single or double females. You'll thank me in three years when they're ready to breed.
Pairing up 1.1 as a breeding project is so 1994. Multiple females are the key.

LOL, but I'm pretty 1990 myself. I get what you're saying though. I appreciate the input.

[millertime89]

I don't think I would want to be anywhere close to the feeding end of a retic, not even a small one.
I'll stick with my balls, they're easier to play with.:laugh:
lol, I'll do a video of my little troupe tomorrow. My little girl is no more aggressive than my little BRB.