I DONT want that snake........

[Lankyrob]

Just thought this would be an interesting discussion, we regularly talk about snakes we love and want to keep - but what snakes DONT you want to keep, and why?

For me it is Boas in general, i love the python shape and i like the colubrid shape but for me the boa shape doesnt do it for me. I do like the colouring of Rainbow boas but dont think i would ever own one personally.

Come on everyone - share!!! :) :) :) :)

[ZARADOZIA]

I don't want something that I must have help to handle safely. Venomous are out - I don't want something that can kill me. I prefer to play it safe rather than sorry.

[Gungirl]

I Have to say I agree with Zara. I do not want a burm or a tic due to their size and I would never want to own a hot. I am not fond of a few snakes face shapes but I am still interested in them enough to want to own one. I tend to think that out side of the giants and the hots I would want 1 of all of them..lol

[Swany]

I think this is gonna be the main theme of this thread. if I can't handle it safely and feel comfortable doing so, I don't wanna play. So giants are out, and I dont know the laws here regarding hots, but they're a definate no no.

[infernalis]

Same for me.. Hots and Giants.

Just about anything else is fair.

Even if not my favourites, I could not deny a snake a decent home, EXCEPT those two.

[CK SandBoas]

I'm gonna have to agree, even though i admire the strength and power of Giants, and the beauty of Hots, they are not for me.

I do admire and respect all those who work with these fantastic animals, be it the Giants or the Hots:)

[alessia55]

Hots, giants, small snakes, and colubrids for me. Hots ands giants for the same reasons already stated (dangerous). I'm all about pythons and boas... and I want something that will have some girth to it and some length. I think the look of corn snakes, king snakes, etc just aren't for me. I prefer the head and body time of pythons and boas. I like chunkier snakes, and garter snakes are way too small for me. I like all snakes, but as far as for personal keep, I'm all about the longer chunkier pythons and boas. ;)

[youngster]

...small snakes, and colubrids for me... I like chunkier snakes, and garter snakes are way too small for me...

Blasphemy!!!!

[Caylan]

Well I'm gonna come ina nd be a little more picky. I would personally love to own a hot and few giants as well, but I'm smarter then that. Snakes I'm not fond of though, are plentiful to say the least. I like them as snakes, but asthetically they just aren't for me, therefore I would rather not own one. I would however take in a rescue if need be of course. I really like pretty much all pythons, they are my thing for sure, but I'm not so much a fan of the womas or black heads... at all! I've cared for woma's, even bred them, great calm snakes with a funny way of eating, but just not my favorite snake by any means. If I wanted a face like that I would get an eastern indigo or some other large colubrid, they just aren't enough of a python for me I guess. Then there are boas. I have yet to see really any columbian boa morphs I like, but I really like normals. But nothing beats a true suriname or longicauda! ETB's are out with GTP's available, but amazons and solomon tree boas are wicked! Rosy boas are the devils incarnate and Kenyans are just funny looking to say the least, but persian sand boas(smooth scale) are incredible snakes! See I'm very picky, but I like pretty much everything. I don't have any experience really with colubrids other then corns and kings, but king snakes are great! Not so sure I like corns that much. I would really like a beauty rat snake of some kind, but if I ever get a colubrid, I hope its an indigo! Nothing beats them, ultimate colubrid!

[shaunyboy]

anything that ain't a carpet would be wasting valuable space at my house ;)

sorry rob,not quite the discussion you were looking for pal:no:;)

cheers shaun

p.s.i've toyed with the idea of keeping garters,my mrs fell in love with waynes " sky " and the wee " red " guy as well

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Hots, giants, small snakes, and colubrids for me. Hots ands giants for the same reasons already stated (dangerous).

imo,it's the keepers that can be dangerous NOT the snakes pal;)

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

Blasphemy!!!!


Agreed!...............

http://www.reptard.info/funny/facial.jpg

[shaunyboy]

I think this is gonna be the main theme of this thread. if I can't handle it safely and feel comfortable doing so, I don't wanna play. So giants are out, and I dont know the laws here regarding hots, but they're a definate no no.

as far as i know swany,its 1 council check up on your tanks being locked,the room theyre in is locked,fling the guy £40 for a licence and you can keep DWA mate

i DO NOT think it should be that easy,i feel that you should at least have a signature of an experienced MENTOR saying your ready,but sadly this is NOT the case mate

as far as i know,the only anti venom in the uk is at the liverpool university of tropical disease/medicine reasearch

cheers shaun

[alessia55]

Agreed!...............

http://www.reptard.info/funny/facial.jpg

LOL!!!!!!! :p

[alessia55]

imo,it's the keepers that can be dangerous NOT the snakes pal;)

cheers shaun

ah, you know what I mean. I meant something along the lines of giants pose a higher risk when handled alone than a ball python ;)

[BlindOne]

I can't bring myself to keep ball pythons or the giants. I like active, moderately sized snakes. Giants poop like a horse! :)

[nickseran]

well im a newby and i like all snakes however i dont think that i would keep venimous and although i like ball pythons my my little experience with them was stresssing.so i would say ball python would be the snake that i wouldnt want

[shaunyboy]

I can't bring myself to keep ball pythons or the giants. I like active, moderately sized snakes. Giants poop like a horse! :)

^^^^^
i could never keep ball pythons either mate,i think they all look like sock puppets :bouncy: (waits on the attack of the ball keepers;))

and giant poo don't sound very appealing:yes:

cheers shaun

[CK SandBoas]

^^^^^
i could never keep ball pythons either mate,i think they all look like sock puppets :bouncy: (waits on the attack of the ball keepers;))

and giant poo don't sound very appealing:yes:

cheers shaun


Nope, no attack from me, and i am a Ball Owner:) I love My Ball, but honestly, he is kinda like a pet rock:p

[Snakefood]

I don't want any giants!! to tics or burms, nothing with fangs, venomous or not and definately no hots!!

[shaunyboy]

Nope, no attack from me, and i am a Ball Owner:) I love My Ball, but honestly, he is kinda like a pet rock:p

i say it in jest pal;)

remember the sock puppets that were made to play with your kids ?

you take an old sock,stick on 2 googly eyes,put your hand in it and make funny voices to entertain young children,as you open and close the sock puppets mouth

they do remind me of ball pythons though:yes:

cheers shaun

[CK SandBoas]

i say it in jest pal;)

remember the sock puppets that were made to play with you kids ?

you take an old sock,stick on 2 googly eyes,put your hand in it and make funny voices to entertain young children,as you open and close the sock puppets mouth

they do remind me of ball pythons though:yes:

cheers shaun

That is an accurate description of them, now that you mention it, especially when a Ball Python periscopes:D

[shaunyboy]

That is an accurate description of them, now that you mention it, especially when a Ball Python periscopes:D

^^^^^
thats it pal,exactly what i think everytime i see a ball periscope lol :yes::yes:

cheers shaun

[Ridge Runner_20]

I'm the same as most here, and will pass on giants and hots. I had a roomie in college that had a 12'+ Burm. Very sweet snake, but my roommate got complacent one day and made a rookie feeding move which cost him a trip to the hospital and 18 stitches. TOTALLY his fault, but that was some pretty serious damage from a pretty big snake. All it would take is one little slip...

And while I dearly love boas, I'm also not terribly fond of the multitude of morphs currently being bred. NO disrespect to the fine folks doing the breeding, but I prefer my boas as you would likely find them in the wild. JMHO...

RR_20 (Mike)

[shaunyboy]

I'm the same as most here, and will pass on giants and hots. I had a roomie in college that had a 12'+ Burm. Very sweet snake, but he got complacent one day and made a rookie feeding move which cost him a trip to the hospital and 18 stitches. TOTALLY his fault, but that was some pretty serious damage from a pretty big snake. All it would take is one little slip...

And while I dearly love boas, I'm also not terribly fond of the multitude of morphs currently being bred. NO disrespect to the fine folks doing the breeding, but I prefer my boas as you would likely find them in the wild. JMHO...

RR_20 (Mike)

re bites
everytime a carpets bit me its been down to human error

re morphs
we have purists,morph lovers and folk who like both on here

no disrespect would be taken by your post,we're all for free speech and opinions on here mate ;)

cheers shaun

p.s.and your beautifull planes;)

[Ridge Runner_20]

re bites
everytime a carpets bit me its been down to human error

re morphs
we have purists,morph lovers and folk who like both on here

no disrespect would be taken by your post,we're all for free speech and opinions on here mate ;)

cheers shaun

p.s.and your beautifull planes;)

Thanks. Yep, love me some planes as well! :)

RR_20 (Mike)

[Snakefood]

I love both normals and morphs, I have one normal corn and then 5 morphs. I plan the same when I start on my BP collection, one normal and then some morphs!!

[infernalis]

Myself, I'm fine with morphs, as long as they have not been inbred to the point of birth defects to obtain them.

[SnakeyJay]

Myself, I'm fine with morphs, as long as they have not been inbred to the point of birth defects to obtain them.

Exactly my feelings as well... I like normals, I like morphs as well. However, morphs like bumblebees (I think that's the right one) should be stopped.. Pretty colours are no where near as important as a healthy happy snake :D

[Snakefood]

Myself, I'm fine with morphs, as long as they have not been inbred to the point of birth defects to obtain them.

EXACTLY!! right now I am looking for a sunkissed corn who is proven to be from non-stargazer lines. Not an easy thing since I have not found a breeder in Canada that is testing thier lines, so I may have to look state-side to find what I want.

[Ridge Runner_20]

I didn't mean to stir a hornet's nest regarding the whole morph thing. And my issue with morphs has little to do with morality of any kind, just that I believe the naturally occurring colors/patterns are as beautiful as anything that could be "artificially" produced (with boas, anyway). I mean, how does one improve on a Brazilian Rainbow boa, for example? Or a stunning Guyana BCC? Again, JMHO. They're all beautiful in their own way, but I'll just stick with plain, old normals. ;)

RR_20 (Mike)

[infernalis]

No hornets nest... honest.

One of my proudest achievements is a snow I bred from scratch, she's not for sale at any price.

Her mother was a normal het for Anerythristic, and her father was an albino.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/thamnophis/88559-meet-jadis-very-unique-snow.html

She was born PERFECT.

[Kayla90]

I think for me.. it's baby corns + garters and all those tiny little creatures I feel like I'm going to mush if I touch them.. I have an older garter that I looove to pieces.. and I can pick him up and he's sturdy and full.. I do ONE day hope to own a retic.. as well as a HOT.. but if that'll actually happen is not clear yet..

[shaunyboy]

No hornets nest... honest.

One of my proudest achievements is a snow I bred from scratch, she's not for sale at any price.

Her mother was a normal het for Anerythristic, and her father was an albino.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/thamnophis/88559-meet-jadis-very-unique-snow.html

She was born PERFECT.

she has the best looking eyes i've ever seen on a snake wayne

re morphs
morphs have done a lot as far as putting carpet pythons on the map

my pure diamonds will always be my favorite snake,followed by pure hypo bredl

after that its morphs all the way

cheers shaun

[Strutter769]

^^^^^
i could never keep ball pythons either mate,i think they all look like sock puppets :bouncy: (waits on the attack of the ball keepers;))

and giant poo don't sound very appealing:yes:

cheers shaun

Same for me. 9' is about my limit (She poops the same size as my largest Mastiff!), I have no desire for "hots" or pythons in general. Love all you BP humans, but for me, they are far too common, and despite the seemingly thousands of awesome paint jobs, too similar to one another.

Neither Marcy nor I are big on colubrids. She'll be mad for telling you this, but she is terrified, TERRIFIED of worms! Loves snakes and other gross stuff as I, but do NOT show her a worm! Anyway, the shape of the colubrids is just to similar to worms, really for either of us.

Wow! Am I glad there are boas in the world apparently!

[marvelfreak]

I don't want any snake that's faster than me. lol

This is my personal opinion so please don't take offense.

Hot's don't like anything that could kill me with just a bite.

Kings and Milk snakes. I like snake that i can tell were the head is in a glance. Makes it easier to avoid the point end.

Boa morphs and Ball Pythons they just don't do it for me. Regular Boa's are fine.
I do like Rainbow Boa and Sand Boa morphs.

Let's face it I am a Python and Boa guy just don't ever want anything that gets over 10 feet. Been there do that and it wasn't fun. I don't like cleaning up poop that size. Plus i want something i can handle by myself.

[Strutter769]

Same for me. 9' is about my limit (She poops the same size as my largest Mastiff!), I have no desire for "hots" or pythons in general. Love all you BP humans, but for me, they are far too common, and despite the seemingly thousands of awesome paint jobs, too similar to one another.

Neither Marcy nor I are big on colubrids. She'll be mad for telling you this, but she is terrified, TERRIFIED of worms! Loves snakes and other gross stuff as I, but do NOT show her a worm! Anyway, the shape of the colubrids is just to similar to worms, really for either of us.

Wow! Am I glad there are boas in the world apparently!

'Freak reminded me, I am not into the boa morphs either. Marcy and both love true redtails (and will own one one day) but I just missed the boat on the morphs.

[red ink]

Well I'm limited to what I can keep to begin with, if it ain't a native then I can't keep it.

In saying that, I would not keep anything patternless which rules out liasis and some of the Antaresias.

I won't keep anything that requires more than a 4x2x2, rules out Blackhead pythons and Scrubies and Coastals.

I won't keep hots or rather the wife won't let me keep hots.

[Ridge Runner_20]

No hornets nest... honest.

One of my proudest achievements is a snow I bred from scratch, she's not for sale at any price.

Her mother was a normal het for Anerythristic, and her father was an albino.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/thamnophis/88559-meet-jadis-very-unique-snow.html

She was born PERFECT.

You should be proud. Gorgeous!

RR_20 (Mike)

[millertime89]

I'm not a big fan of balls and colubrids, but I've got a ball and I own a corn (waiting for nicer weather before having her shipped here) that I want to use for educational purposes. I don't really care for bloods either. I want to eventually have a giant or two but definitely not now. I don't think I ever want the responsibility of having a hot, I'll just admire from a distance or from behind glass.

[Becky Goings]

I don't think I'd ever have a retic or a full sized burm, but a friend of mine rescued a burmese that is 9 years old and is only a little over 6 feet long. She's had him almost a year, and he has nearly doubled in girth (still only about 8-10 lbs) and I'm adopting him soon. Best guess we can come up with is that he'll maybe get about 6 inches longer. I would never have a hot, even hog noses make me nervous.

[Strutter769]

No hornets nest... honest.

One of my proudest achievements is a snow I bred from scratch, she's not for sale at any price.

Her mother was a normal het for Anerythristic, and her father was an albino.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/thamnophis/88559-meet-jadis-very-unique-snow.html

She was born PERFECT.

Ok, so even colubridz can be awesome! She's really amazing in appearance!

The mating video is also by FAR the most graphic I have ever seen! I think I saw the climax! (Can I "say" that in this family program? :confused:)

[shaunyboy]

Well I'm limited to what I can keep to begin with, if it ain't a native then I can't keep it.

In saying that, I would not keep anything patternless which rules out liasis and some of the Antaresias.

I won't keep anything that requires more than a 4x2x2, rules out Blackhead pythons and Scrubies and Coastals.

I won't keep hots or rather the wife won't let me keep hots.

i would really like a black headed python,for its looks and capabilitys as a cannabilistic snake

scrubbys look amazing,the scalation on their head makes them look dragon like imo.they get too big for me own my own though

if i was living in oz,i think it would be locale specific diamonds and hypo bredl all the way

cheers shaun

[Flyboy]

~Taipan
~Puff Adder
~Fer-de-Lance
~Cobra
~Viper
~Black Mamba
~anything that rattles!!

If I have to use hooks to handle...its a definite DONT WANT!!

[red ink]

i would really like a black headed python,for its looks and capabilitys as a cannabilistic snake

scrubbys look amazing,the scalation on their head makes them look dragon like imo.they get too big for me own my own though

if i was living in oz,i think it would be locale specific diamonds and hypo bredl all the way

cheers shaun

I love diamonds particularly the B&W diamonds (their hard to come by though and will take up too much room in my limited space).

I may have been a bit too quick to dismiss the blackheads as well a couple of the Western Australia locality blackheads max out at 5 foot (allegedly?)

[Swany]

i could never keep ball pythons either mate,i think they all look like sock puppets

I heard some FIFER was bad mouthing my snake. Anybody gimme some info on this ? :-D

[Snakefood]

I love ball pythons!! I don't have any yet, but I will have some!!

[Swany]

YAY for the balls !!!
(you know when I read that it didn't quite look right lol)

[CK SandBoas]

YAY for the balls !!!
(you know when I read that it didn't quite look right lol)

:shocked::shocked::p:p

:D:D

[Lankyrob]

YAY for the balls !!!
(you know when I read that it didn't quite look right lol)

Especially with your Krankie voice! ;P ;P

[Swany]

Ok, so you picture me as a short fat Angus Young (AC/DC) lookalike. Check the face to a name thread, I put a pic up earlier, wont stop me sounding like that in your head, but at least you'll know what I look like ;-)

[Lankyrob]

I must admit you look nothing like either of the krankies :) but when i read your posts now they sound like her in my head ;)

[Swany]

Thanks lol. I remember a few years ago I started reading The catcher in the rye, J D Salinger, about half way down the first page of the narrator say's "and I mean that i really do" Instantly I heard Martin O'Neals voice, who was the manager of Celtic at the time and I just could not get into it, hearing an Irshman narrate an American classic. It was wierd lol

[KORBIN5895]

I probably won't ever own another ball unless it is pied. Venomous snakes are awesome to look at but I am to lax when working with my snakes and don't want to risk it.

[GarterPython]

I like all snakes but I would not want to own anything that is over 8 feet or venemous.

[unknownclown]

Anything too big we can't afford rabbits or larger food on a constant basis. I don't like white or albino snakes for some reason and yellow on whites just look wrong to me.

[Freebody]

Mine would have to be bloods, i dont like the shape of their heads, and never been a fan of short fat snakes, just the last few years have i come to like balls pythons, maybe in the next few ill share the blood addiction. but i have to say, i love the patterns and colors they have.

[Rogue628]

Although I'm more of a python/boa person, I love just about all snakes and lizards. I have yet to find one that hasn't eventually grown on me in one way or the other. I can see the beauty in all eventually.

Morphs are a different story. I love burms but most morphs aren't that appealing. Same with most other morphs. It's kind of like liking a band, but not necessarily liking every song.

Not sure how I feel about the spider ball morphs due to the known wobble. Having an animal with a known defect is one thing, breeding it is another. I have heard that spiders and most morphs using the spider genes are some of the best eaters and breeders despite their neurological issues.

I don't think I could turn down any rescue, except maybe hots. I'll help someone rehome them, but keeping them is another story.

I doubt I'll ever get into breeding, so having certain morphs for breeding projects isn't necessary.

For the most part, I like an animal I can interact with and not just look at, which limits animals I'll actually purchase. Some just aren't for me. Still doesn't stop me from drooling over some of them though lol Nor rescuing them.

Sorry for rambling....I just got finished with an 16 hour work day and I'm brain dead. :wacky::tired1_2:

[Strutter769]

Another reason I don't like Ball Pythons? Spiders "wobble?" EVERY ONE OF THEM?! Why are they still produced? People create an animal that WILL have a neurological disorder? Why?

Please, tell me if I'm overreacting here, but this is morally unconscionable to me. Doesn't anyone they to think of it from the snake's perspective?

Should this one be moved to "rants?"

Ok, sorry for exploding. Five minutes ago I had never heard of this and it just totally flipped me out. I'm better now.

[Nismo89]

Spider wobble varies greatly from little to no wobble or only being present when in feed mode to very extreme wobble and head twirling. It's not the only snake out there that all in the specific morph have the same neurological disorder. I can't remember the exact one but there is a carpet python like that also. I don't think one with a very bad wobble should be bred but if it can still eat and seems to have a good life why shouldn't you let it live.

As for the snake I don't want I'd have to say corns and most colubirds they just don't really interest me. The one little snake I would like to own though is a few garters.

[Strutter769]

Subtle or obvious, it's still a neurological disorder. What's more important than your neurological system? Not much IMO. To knowingly breed something that is undoubtedly to have a defect (because you like it's skin pattern?), I just really don't understand it. To me it sounds selfish and unbelievably cruel.

[jaleely]

Subtle or obvious, it's still a neurological disorder. What's more important than your neurological system? Not much IMO. To knowingly breed something that is undoubtedly to have a defect (because you like it's skin pattern?), I just really don't understand it. To me it sounds selfish and unbelievably cruel.

Agreed 100% and more if possible. Apparently Spiders (because of the "wobble"), Caramels (because of the kinking potential), Caramels (because of the female subfertility), Super lessers (because of the bug-eyes), Super cinnies (because of the duckbill/kinking). I copied that from another forum that was asking "oh does this make you NOT want to buy the snake, or do you not care?" basically.

At first when i started looking into BPs i thought morphs were great and i wanted to learn all about them...now i really think it's such a joke and such a terrible way to manage snakes. These people are not breeding pets, they are just trying to make money for themselves and have bragging rights.
NOW that is generalizing, yes. There are probably a lot of you out there who aren't like that...so sorry for saying it, i don't mean you, if that's not how you are :)
Blah. I don't know why you would continue to breed something that is proven to have BRAIN problems.

OKay, sorry i ranted too.

ANyway...so at first i wasn't that into BPs...but hey, i totally LIKE sock puppets! So i love'em now. I'm also not adverse to some basic gene morphs...but really there is no need to get crazy.

I actually LOVE the look of rattlesnakes...but I don't think i could ever own a hot because i know i am too clumsy, and too physical. I WOULD get bitten...and that would be scary, even if i had anti-venom.

I kind of don't like the look of boas...even though i have three. Hubby wanted the brazilian boa...and i do love her color, though i kind of don't like her mustache...lol
I wanted the dumeril's boas to keep breeding the captives to help prevent the want for illegal imports. Yeah yeah, i'm on my soap box =P

I was kind of against the fast little squirmy snakes at first, because i'm afraid of hurting them...but we are going to the reptile show in my area on Jan 7th, and I won't pass up a couple cute garters after seeing how irrefutably cute they are!!

So, at first i was kind of afraid of the larger snakes, too. I figured i would get over that though, as my babies grew. We measured my carpet's shed tonight and she's already 40 inches long! She's of course not that thick, though, but now i can't wait until she's bigger! A couple of our rescue balls are over 4 feet, but that doesn't actually seem that long unless he's wrapped around your neck or trying to get away into your chair...LOL

Honestly, I have to agree that I can find beauty in just about any reptile after a while, and i do have a variety :) I wouldn't turn down any snake if someone wanted to give it to me or it needed a home! But boy would i be paranoid if it was a hot!

[Norm66]

For me it's hots (I'm just not that together) and the BP morphs w/ known problems (add woma to the list above BTW). I really like the look of spiders but I've seen a couple videos of badly corkscrewing spiders and while some seem to find it funny I was heartbroken for the poor little thing. Definitely not for me. Morphs do really turn me on though. Just so long as they're not much more likely to be defective than normal snakes is all.

I'm not really into any snake that doesn't have a neck before its head for some reason so that leaves pretty much boas & pythons but I'm not ruling anything out. I'm still looking for an anery motley cornsnake that has a perfect motley pattern (they all seem to get some stripes) but I'm being very picky about it.

Giants don't bother me but our house is small so....yea.

[KORBIN5895]

Aren't all of these neurological problems due to inbreeding? If so pretty soon all morphs will have neuro problems.

[Norm66]

Korbin, from what I've read I don't believe that's the case. At least not with the spider BPs. It just seems to be something that's connected with the gene that produces the spider pattern.

[Will0W783]

Hmmm, a lot of the things I thought I would never keep, I now own. So, what would I still never keep?
I really don't care for anacondas- the face is too blobby and amorphous, and they tend to be aggressive.
I also am not a fan of a lot of the more subtle BP morphs, like cinnamon and dinker. Although a super cinnamon would be nice. :)
I would love a Gaboon viper, but too much risk- the only way I'd ever keep one was if I found a venomoid someone was selling, and then that brings up the messy fact of devenomizing, which I'm really not sure about. So no Gabby for me.

[shaunyboy]

Spider wobble varies greatly from little to no wobble or only being present when in feed mode to very extreme wobble and head twirling. It's not the only snake out there that all in the specific morph have the same neurological disorder. I can't remember the exact one but there is a carpet python like that also. I don't think one with a very bad wobble should be bred but if it can still eat and seems to have a good life why shouldn't you let it live.

As for the snake I don't want I'd have to say corns and most colubirds they just don't really interest me. The one little snake I would like to own though is a few garters.

your talking of the coastal jaguar colour and pattern mutation known as the jag gene

NOT all jaguars show neurological issues

over on a carpet specific forum,one of the members asked,out of all the jag produced and owned by forum members,how many had neuro issues ?

it worked out as little as 5 to 10% of forum members jags showed slight to bad issues

i don't know a lot about the spider ball issue,but i am certain NOT all jags have issues

in all the jags i've owned only 2 had very slight head wobbles when excited,even then it took a trained eye to notice it;)

that said the neurological issues can be anything from a very slight head wobble to full corkscrewing

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Aren't all of these neurological problems due to inbreeding? If so pretty soon all morphs will have neuro problems.


the ONLY morph of all carpet python morphs associated with neurological issues is the jaguar morph

ALL other carpet morph's have NO neurological issues

the neuro issue has NOTHING to do with inbreeding

you can safely go up to F5's in carpets and produce healthy issue free hatchlings

i have NEVER heard of issues in line breeding carpets mate;)

the first clutch zebra supers to be produced had slight kinking in their tales,imo not enough supers have been produced to see if this effects all super zebra's

cheers shaun

[lady_bug87]

I would probably never keep Giants, Hots (like most) and any corns I have one colubrid and thats enough for me I probably wont own any more BPs unless its a blue eyed Leucy or a Super Cinnamon (or both? And call them Ebony and Ivory?)

[shaunyboy]

Subtle or obvious, it's still a neurological disorder. What's more important than your neurological system? Not much IMO. To knowingly breed something that is undoubtedly to have a defect (because you like it's skin pattern?), I just really don't understand it. To me it sounds selfish and unbelievably cruel.


imo only 5 to 10% of jaguars show neuro issues,which means there are a lot more healthy jags thriving out there,than there are unhealthy ones

being honest i do NOT feel cruel or selfish when it comes to breeding jags

out of all my jags only 2 had a very slight a head wobbles when excited,even then it took a trained eye to notice it

i respect your opinion,but it differs from mine

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

I understand you can inbreed many animals several generations with no ill affect. Bit what happens when they get that awesome feature they are looking for and it has slight problems? Do they breed it one more time to sharpen the look? Then what happens with the babies when purchased? Does someone else sell them a litter mate and now they are breeding two problematic snakes to get a killer look.

What is that corn snake that only one person is producing? A pimento? So for someone else to produce it they either need to figure out its ancestry or get a related pair from the original breeder
My question is how inbred are these snakes to get this pimento look? And what problems does it pass down? Twenty years from now it maybe common but unless someone figures out how they are produced they will probably all be closely related with some serious issues. That is my thoughts at leas.

[lady_bug87]

^^ Palmetto

[shaunyboy]

I understand you can inbreed many animals several generations with no ill affect. Bit what happens when they get that awesome feature they are looking for and it has slight problems? Do they breed it one more time to sharpen the look? Then what happens with the babies when purchased? Does someone else sell them a litter mate and now they are breeding two problematic snakes to get a killer look.

What is that corn snake that only one person is producing? A pimento? So for someone else to produce it they either need to figure out its ancestry or get a related pair from the original breeder
My question is how inbred are these snakes to get this pimento look? And what problems does it pass down? Twenty years from now it maybe common but unless someone figures out how they are produced they will probably all be closely related with some serious issues. That is my thoughts at leas.

wayne will correct me if i'm wrong here but.....

years ago there were only a small breeding group of san fran garters originally donated to europe

so ALL the present san fran garters in europe and the uk came from those originals

wayne may be able to tell us if any problems have arisen and how many years of in breeding it took to show

as long as these PALMETTO snakes have NO health issues,then imo it don't matter how many line breedings it took to produce them,why would it matter if healthy snakes are produced ?

as far as breeding something that may have slight health problems to attain a certain look.....

imo that is down to each individual breeders moral compass mate,you have to wiegh the bad against the good,like with most decisions in life

i personally would NOT breed a clutch that i knew ALL the hatchlings would be tainted

but i would breed a clutch where only a small minority may be effected

the above is only my personal opinion and me being honest with you all

i am currently keeping F2 pair of specific line bred irian jaya's.if they keep improoving each generation,then i will take it to F5,F6 if i see NO health issues

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

I am a ok with inbreeding animals as long as there are no serious health affects. My thought was that most strains of morph come from a small gene pool. Hence the problems that crop up. I very well could be wrong but I also doubt you will ever breed two wild caught normal bps and get a Lucy or a super cinnamon.

Again breeding for a look is fine but when 70% have a serious kinking issue that is not okay with me unless you are willing to put those 70% down and end there misery. That's my honest opinion. I do understand and agree with you decision Shaun. Thanks for being so honest w

[shaunyboy]

I am a ok with inbreeding animals as long as there are no serious health affects. My thought was that most strains of morph come from a small gene pool. Hence the problems that crop up. I very well could be wrong but I also doubt you will ever breed two wild caught normal bps and get a Lucy or a super cinnamon.

Again breeding for a look is fine but when 70% have a serious kinking issue that is not okay with me unless you are willing to put those 70% down and end there misery. That's my honest opinion. I do understand and agree with you decision Shaun. Thanks for being so honest w


if the number of unhealthy snakes in a clutch were going to be as high as 70%,then i personally would not breed them mate

i feel around 10% to 20% would be acceptable

one of the reasons i want a black headed python is for its cannabilistic nature.the bhp would be fed any misformed hatchlings

the bhp is a snake eating snake,so i have no problems feeding it prey thats natural to it

imo its mother nature doing her thing

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

You better buy some caramels ( or ist it toffees that Corey was talking about? ) then Shaun!

[Dranix Paremoon]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as everyone else. I think small snakes are cute and wouldn't mind taking them in if they needed it, but I enjoy heftier snakes, not too big though. There are gorgeous giants out there, but I am with the whole thing on safety, I want snakes that are a good size, but not so big they'll give me an extra big hug one day and do me in. Venemous also out of course, that's my policy for most pets, nothing gigantic or venemous, just in the medium range is where I like it with my Royals :)

Only giant pets I have on my list right now are dogs and eventually an iguana.

[exwizard]

Ok, for me, anything I cant handle I dont want. That rules out ETBs, GTPs, any hot and most giants but burms, if they are handled frequently when small, theyre some of the most docile of all the giants.

In Iowa, Rock Pythons, Anacondas and Retics as well as any hot is totally banned anyway, so that falls pretty much in line with my opinions on this issue with the exception of retics. It is possible to get a docile retic and I have seen some.

Since handleability is right at the top of what I want in a snake, I must repeat my bottom line in this to stress its importance to me... "If I cant handle the snake, I dont want it!"

[red ink]

one of the reasons i want a black headed python is for its cannabilistic nature.the bhp would be fed any misformed hatchlings

the bhp is a snake eating snake,so i have no problems feeding it prey thats natural to it

imo its mother nature doing her thing

cheers shaun

If your just want a hatchling recycling service mate, womas will do the same. BHP are better at it cause their bigger but if it's just hatchos then either of the Aspidites will happily do the job for you. I have a mate that used to breed lizards but kept one SA woma (large form that can get close to BHP size) for that reason, it's the only snake he was ever interested in. Lots of breeders here recycle animals.

[knox]

I am not into Ball Pythons because they are too slow and boring for me. Hots and Giants are a given that I don't want.

(Colubrids are perfect)

[jaleely]

ahha, shaun! Hubby asked me the other day if i knew of a breeder who took the unwanted babies and had like, a cobra or something that they fed the babies to. I knew there was someone out there who would do it!
AH, mixed feelings on that. Leaning more towards, why breed them if you KNOW you're going to have stock that is a waste? Do you really make that much money off of the others that it's okay to have them created with all that energy, and then just kill them?
I don't think it would be worth it to me.

Now, I'll expand this a little. It's my opinion that there is no reason to breed ANYthing (including anyONE) if you know that the offspring is going to have neurological disorders, or health issues. WHY cause a thing to be born that is going to have to deal with it's issues all of it's life, or have someone else deal with it, or at the most, that you are going to turn right around and kill?

That is just..to quote Star Trek...illogical.

I haven't bred anything though. Maybe there is some kind of high i am missing. Everyone for ball pythons anyway, seems to be out there to "create" (inbreed, discard, use energy and snakes and their energy) a new morph so they can have their legacy, or the credit. Morphs are not being bred to enlighten, or heighten, or better the species. BPs are not even being bred to choose what personality traits, habits, or intelligence the animal has and could pass on. It's all color! That is just... a waste.

It's very easy for me to sit on my high horse though, i agree, but you'd have to point out some facts for me as to why it's beneficial for me to see your point or change my mind!

Okay so back to snakes i don't want. I agree with what someone else said, that i don't really like the look of snakes that don't have a neck right behind their head. I DO however, like kenyan sand boas. I'm not that into king snakes. I don't see a need to own one, anyway, not saying i wouldn't.

I would own a devenomized snake. I'm not really afraid of being bitten. Willow, do i want to know how hard it is on the snake for them to do that? Surely it's just a matter of anesthesia and then that's it. Kind of like getting your tonsils out? lol

[Gungirl]

I would own a devenomized snake. I'm not really afraid of being bitten. Willow, do i want to know how hard it is on the snake for them to do that? Surely it's just a matter of anesthesia and then that's it. Kind of like getting your tonsils out? lol

IMO and from what I understand... Most times a snake has simply had its fangs ripped out. No anesthesia or anything. I also am fairly sure most of the time they can grow them back. I also don't think it has anything to do with people having a fear of being bitten but more that they have respect for the snakes power.

There is one company that does it the "right" way but I don't know much about them so I will stick with my thoughts as posted above.

[shaunyboy]

If your just want a hatchling recycling service mate, womas will do the same. BHP are better at it cause their bigger but if it's just hatchos then either of the Aspidites will happily do the job for you. I have a mate that used to breed lizards but kept one SA woma (large form that can get close to BHP size) for that reason, it's the only snake he was ever interested in. Lots of breeders here recycle animals.


i don'ty really like the look of womas,i dont like the colors on their faces.i feel they look more like giant worms than snakes:shocked:

bhp's though look incredible;)

cheers shaun

[SpOoKy]

i don'ty really like the look of womas,i dont like the colors on their faces.i feel they look more like giant worms than snakes

I agree Shaun, they kinda creep me out

[shaunyboy]

You better buy some caramels ( or ist it toffees that Corey was talking about? ) then Shaun!

it would be the coastal carmel morph if we're talking carpets;)

toffee's are ball pythons and i'm not sure if you get toffe corns ?

cheers shaun

[red ink]

i don'ty really like the look of womas,i dont like the colors on their faces.i feel they look more like giant worms than snakes:shocked:

bhp's though look incredible;)

cheers shaun


I have the same problem with them mate, from the neck down I think their fantastic specially some of the locality specific specimens like RHDs and sandfires. Unfortunately from the neck up I cant get over those bloody Groucho Marx eyebrows lol.

I need a snake with the Aspidites patterns but the head of a Morelia. One endearing things about womas thopugh is their behaviour. They wag there tails when foods around and when you place them in a sand environment they make mounds with their bodies and burrow (I think that's pretty cool).

[shaunyboy]

ahha, shaun! Hubby asked me the other day if i knew of a breeder who took the unwanted babies and had like, a cobra or something that they fed the babies to. I knew there was someone out there who would do it!
AH, mixed feelings on that. Leaning more towards, why breed them if you KNOW you're going to have stock that is a waste? Do you really make that much money off of the others that it's okay to have them created with all that energy, and then just kill them?
I don't think it would be worth it to me.

Now, I'll expand this a little. It's my opinion that there is no reason to breed ANYthing (including anyONE) if you know that the offspring is going to have neurological disorders, or health issues. WHY cause a thing to be born that is going to have to deal with it's issues all of it's life, or have someone else deal with it, or at the most, that you are going to turn right around and kill?

That is just..to quote Star Trek...illogical.

I haven't bred anything though. Maybe there is some kind of high i am missing. Everyone for ball pythons anyway, seems to be out there to "create" (inbreed, discard, use energy and snakes and their energy) a new morph so they can have their legacy, or the credit. Morphs are not being bred to enlighten, or heighten, or better the species. BPs are not even being bred to choose what personality traits, habits, or intelligence the animal has and could pass on. It's all color! That is just... a waste.

It's very easy for me to sit on my high horse though, i agree, but you'd have to point out some facts for me as to why it's beneficial for me to see your point or change my mind!

Okay so back to snakes i don't want. I agree with what someone else said, that i don't really like the look of snakes that don't have a neck right behind their head. I DO however, like kenyan sand boas. I'm not that into king snakes. I don't see a need to own one, anyway, not saying i wouldn't.

I would own a devenomized snake. I'm not really afraid of being bitten. Willow, do i want to know how hard it is on the snake for them to do that? Surely it's just a matter of anesthesia and then that's it. Kind of like getting your tonsils out? lol

for me,IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY,i would give hatchlings away for free if someone wanted to give them a good home,with exception of my diamond pythons

for me breedings about producing the highest quality example of something,because i want to keep the best looking carpets possible

owning a snake eating snake and feeding it snakes.....

is no different than feeding rodents to a non cannibilistic snake ;)

or feeding eggs to an egg eating snake

the truth on my part is,feeding unwanted hatchlings to a cannibilistic snake is not cruel,it makes sense and allows me to justify it to myself (just being honest)

the carpet market is saturated with bellow average unwanted carpets,why put more out there,when there is a snake who's natural diet is other snakes ?

re jaguar neuro issues
its only 5 to 10% of jags that have neuro's,to me thats an acceptable risk(just being honest)

i respect your opinion,although it differs from mine pal,but i don't think theres anything i can say that makes it benificial or that will change your mind

for example
i am horrified at the thought of someone devenomising snakes and find it totally UNATURAL:hmm:

where as a cannabilistic snake,eating another snake is mother nature at her best;)

we keep preditors,why is it so different feeding a rat,mouse,gerbil,guinea pig than feeding it another snake ?

i'm not argueing,and i'm happy to debate the subject pal;)

re ball pythons and morphs
the fancy ball morphs and carpet morphs imo have done wonders for the hobby,its brought lots of new snake keepers to the hobby.so imo its wrong to label it " a waste "

cheers shaun

[red ink]

Most JAG sibs end up being BHP food here, being the land of Morelia they have little to zero appeal to us here.

It's not openly said in public as you get a lot of "Ohhh the humanity" type responses on a forum.

There are some really nice looking sibs around but when spoilt for choice then they end up at the back of the line or in the stomach of a content BHP.

[shaunyboy]

Most JAG sibs end up being BHP food here, being the land of Morelia they have little to zero appeal to us here.

It's not openly said in public as you get a lot of "Ohhh the humanity" type responses on a forum.

There are some really nice looking sibs around but when spoilt for choice then they end up at the back of the line or in the stomach of a content BHP.

i agree totally mate

in real life i try to be straight talking,up front and honest with folk,i am the same on forums;)

i see NO wrong in feeding a cannabilistic snakes other snakes,imo its no different to feeding rodents as prey

imo for every really nice looking sib,there are 100 ugly ones;)

so as said it keeps my concience clear,hell i know breeders who euthinise unwanted hatchlings and throw them in the bin.that i feel is a waste:hmm:

cheers shaun

[SpOoKy]

so as said it keeps my concience clear,hell i know breeders who euthinise unwanted hatchlings and throw them in the bin.that i feel is a waste

A total waste, I agree with feeding off snakes, believe me if i kept corns I would be breeding to feed off to my monitor. it is all nature, some people keep mice and rats as pets so I don't see how they can be okay for food but not snakes. Nothing in life should go to waste. I 100% respect your view

[DavethePython]

While very new to snakes , I think I will stick with the Ball Python , not really into the giants . I want something I can handle with relative ease. Although both my Pythons are still small , I still never forget they are not domesticated animals as we know them , and can inflict injury with ease if they so choose to. So Giants are out for sure .

[millertime89]

I'm going to touch on few things here.

Venomous snakes that have their fangs ripped out WILL eventually grow them back. The correct way to do it (and still frowned on by MANY keepers) is to have the venom glands surgically removed. I know of only one company that does it in what I feel is the right way and uses anesthetic.

Neuro issues: I do, to an extent, understand why people breed snakes that have the potential for neuro problems. The demand of most morphs that have these issues is HIGH and as a result the price and profit for creating them is high. As long as a snake with neuro problems is sold as such then I really don't see a problem with it. Furthermore, euthanizing a snake with extreme neuro issues should be done. The snake can then be fed to another snake that eats snakes (king cobra, king snake, etc.), or to another snake eating animal. There's nothing wrong with that as those animals need to eat too. Normal baby retics often go this way, and although it is sad, the demand isn't high enough to justify keeping more than a few, especially when a clutch can contain over 50 offspring.

A couple other species I don't want. Woma and black headed pythons, viper boas and most other chunky ground boas.

finally, can someone tell me what a BHP is? Black headed python? Didn't know they were cannibalistic.

[red ink]

BHP = Black head python Aspidites melanocehpalus

General reptile eater not just snakes

I have very strong opinions on venomoids (I'm not trying to cause problems here but these are just my opinions), if people can't keep hots for what they are.... hots! Then they really have no business promoting their mutalation just so they can "safely" have them. If you can't stand the heat get the heck out of the kitchen.... you don't go and turn around and turn the fire off just so you can play!

[marvelfreak]

I'm going to touch on few things here.

Venomous snakes that have their fangs ripped out WILL eventually grow them back. The correct way to do it (and still frowned on by MANY keepers) is to have the venom glands surgically removed. I know of only one company that does it in what I feel is the right way and uses anesthetic.

finally, can someone tell me what a BHP is? Black headed python? Didn't know they were cannibalistic.
Even when the venom gland is remove it still can grow back.



Some cannibalistic snakes. Green Anacondas, Cobras, King snakes, and BHP. I know their more , but that's all i can think of right now.


Kimberly how can you not like Anacondas they're so cute and cuddly. lol

[millertime89]

BHP = Black head python Aspidites melanocehpalus

General reptile eater not just snakes

I have very strong opinions on venomoids (I'm not trying to cause problems here but these are just my opinions), if people can't keep hots for what they are.... hots! Then they really have no business promoting their mutalation just so they can "safely" have them. If you can't stand the heat get the heck out of the kitchen.... you don't go and turn around and turn the fire off just so you can play!

you won't see too many here that disagree, I personally am on the fence.

Even when the venom gland is remove it still can grow back.

Some cannibalistic snakes. Green Anacondas, Cobras, King snakes, and BHP. I know their more , but that's all i can think of right now.

Kimberly how can you not like Anacondas they're so cute and cuddly. lol

They shouldn't when done right.
I didn't know Greens were, learn something new every day
I think they're kind of chunky and ugly, only giants I'll own are burms, 'tics, and MAYBE an a'rock.

[marvelfreak]

Greens Anaconda will eat just about anything.

[millertime89]

THAT does not surprise me, lol.

[shaunyboy]

BHP = Black head python Aspidites melanocehpalus

General reptile eater not just snakes

I have very strong opinions on venomoids (I'm not trying to cause problems here but these are just my opinions), if people can't keep hots for what they are.... hots! Then they really have no business promoting their mutalation just so they can "safely" have them. If you can't stand the heat get the heck out of the kitchen.... you don't go and turn around and turn the fire off just so you can play!

that is a great point and very well put mate

cheers shaun

[jaleely]

owning a snake eating snake and feeding it snakes.....

is no different than feeding rodents to a non cannibilistic snake ;)

or feeding eggs to an egg eating snake

the truth on my part is,feeding unwanted hatchlings to a cannibilistic snake is not cruel,it makes sense and allows me to justify it to myself (just being honest)

Actually you make a good point I hadn't really thought of. And i love the honesty..totally refreshing!
OKay, so i cede that snakes eating snake isn't really any different than snakes eating rodents...in that they're eating meat, etc. But....snakes are so CUTE! I think it would just be too hard for me to do. I don't feed live either, so it's not really something i've thought about much except to say "poor snake!" in my head.
Oh and I hunt and fish, and have a few trophies on my dad's wall, so it's not that part of it. If i had a snake that refused everything but live, I would feed it live (probably even thumped on the head live so the snake wouldn't be scratched or hurt)...but that's a different story. Anyway...if I were breeding a snake because i loved that snake type i just don't think i could feed it's babies to anything.
hmm I still don't know think i could breed something if i knew the risk of problems was high.

the carpet market is saturated with bellow average unwanted carpets,why put more out there,when there is a snake who's natural diet is other snakes ?
AGreed! by why breed them at all when you *know* a certain amount of the offspring is going to be inferior and HAVE to be food? We're probably going to have to agree to disagree here *lol*
I guess this is why though
re jaguar neuro issues
its only 5 to 10% of jags that have neuro's,to me thats an acceptable risk(just being honest)
I'd have to think about it. It is a low risk. I guess i'd have to say i'm thinking more of the BP morphs that are out there. In fact, i'm probably mostly thinking of that.



i respect your opinion,although it differs from mine pal,but i don't think theres anything i can say that makes it benificial or that will change your mind

for example
i am horrified at the thought of someone devenomising snakes and find it totally UNATURAL:hmm:

I actually agree that this shouldn't happen. But, i would by lying if a part of me didn't think that it would be cool to have a hot that wasn't hot. It'd also be nice to have my dog debarked, but i haven't done that either *lol* That one really horrifies people sometimes, but as long as it doesn't hurt the animal to not have that particular item that was taken away...i don't know. I guess i like to think i disagree with it in principle but i'm also pretty selfish and might like the convenience. Honesty! Dirty Honesty *lol*


re ball pythons and morphs
the fancy ball morphs and carpet morphs imo have done wonders for the hobby,its brought lots of new snake keepers to the hobby.so imo its wrong to label it " a waste "
Hmm i don't know that i actually have thought about, or really care if a lot of people join the hobby. Frankly, many people who come into the pet store where i work don't seem to act like they take care of, or even deserve such a wonderful type of animal. Totally my opinion obviously, and clearly someone would think the same of me if they didn't like my points of view etc.

I guess if i think about it, it makes sense though. There would be more people who support the hobby, making it easier to get items and stuff since it would be more popular and more widespread. I think it's kind of a shame that it takes a genetic mutation to get people interested, but oh well i guess.

I'm kinda weird, because i don't think i'm against cross breeds, but i just hate all the stigma and "wrong" seeming reasons that people promote morphs.
So i mean i'm kind of okay with messing around with breeding.
I still don't think i could breed snakes knowing that i'd have to feed offspring to something else because i *knew* that some would be messed up :)

I'm kinda rambling now. To bring it on home i'll say that i wouldn't purposely own a morph of any kind with a genetic disorder...like i mean purchase one, but i would take care of one.

[shaunyboy]

Actually you make a good point I hadn't really thought of. And i love the honesty..totally refreshing!
OKay, so i cede that snakes eating snake isn't really any different than snakes eating rodents...in that they're eating meat, etc. But....snakes are so CUTE! I think it would just be too hard for me to do. I don't feed live either, so it's not really something i've thought about much except to say "poor snake!" in my head.
Oh and I hunt and fish, and have a few trophies on my dad's wall, so it's not that part of it. If i had a snake that refused everything but live, I would feed it live (probably even thumped on the head live so the snake wouldn't be scratched or hurt)...but that's a different story. Anyway...if I were breeding a snake because i loved that snake type i just don't think i could feed it's babies to anything.
hmm I still don't know think i could breed something if i knew the risk of problems was high.
AGreed! by why breed them at all when you *know* a certain amount of the offspring is going to be inferior and HAVE to be food? We're probably going to have to agree to disagree here *lol*
I guess this is why though I'd have to think about it. It is a low risk. I guess i'd have to say i'm thinking more of the BP morphs that are out there. In fact, i'm probably mostly thinking of that.

I actually agree that this shouldn't happen. But, i would by lying if a part of me didn't think that it would be cool to have a hot that wasn't hot. It'd also be nice to have my dog debarked, but i haven't done that either *lol* That one really horrifies people sometimes, but as long as it doesn't hurt the animal to not have that particular item that was taken away...i don't know. I guess i like to think i disagree with it in principle but i'm also pretty selfish and might like the convenience. Honesty! Dirty Honesty *lol*

Hmm i don't know that i actually have thought about, or really care if a lot of people join the hobby. Frankly, many people who come into the pet store where i work don't seem to act like they take care of, or even deserve such a wonderful type of animal. Totally my opinion obviously, and clearly someone would think the same of me if they didn't like my points of view etc.

I guess if i think about it, it makes sense though. There would be more people who support the hobby, making it easier to get items and stuff since it would be more popular and more widespread. I think it's kind of a shame that it takes a genetic mutation to get people interested, but oh well i guess.

I'm kinda weird, because i don't think i'm against cross breeds, but i just hate all the stigma and "wrong" seeming reasons that people promote morphs.
So i mean i'm kind of okay with messing around with breeding.
I still don't think i could breed snakes knowing that i'd have to feed offspring to something else because i *knew* that some would be messed up :)

I'm kinda rambling now. To bring it on home i'll say that i wouldn't purposely own a morph of any kind with a genetic disorder...like i mean purchase one, but i would take care of one.


our views are not so different really pal;)

re why breed in the first place
being honest,i breed to try and get the high quality examples i want for my own collection.it would give me more satisfaction than just going out and buying it from a top breeder.

my main problem was all the waste produced in unwanted bellow average examples:no:

a black headed python would solve that dilemma,as i would be providing part of its natural diet,that being other reptiles;)

i know no one wants to picture a cute wee lizard/snake being eaten by a bhp,but that is exactly what happens in the wild

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

it would be the coastal carmel morph if we're talking carpets;)

toffee's are ball pythons and i'm not sure if you get toffe corns ?

cheers shaun

I was thinking of BP morons.

[KORBIN5895]

AGreed! by why breed them at all when you *know* a certain amount of the offspring is going to be inferior and HAVE to be food? We're probably going to have to agree to disagree here *lol*

Actually most thing bred have a certain amount of offspring that in nature it wouldn't survive and would end up as food for something. We commonly call them runts. ;)

[Terranaut]

I won't ever own a hot or a snake that doesn't like handling. My snakes are pets and not trophys or objects just to be looked at through glass. For those who like hots...thats fine just not my bag. I won't own a retic or anything huge. A 90-100lb snake is my max for sure. My boas may get there but no bigger. I also won't own a corn. Not really into corns.
Thats my list. Anything else I might own someday.

[Strutter769]

It's already noted that I don't want anything to do with any venomous animals, but IMO the most beautiful snake on Mother Earth has to be the Gaboon Viper!

[Strutter769]

It's already noted that I don't want anything to do with any venomous animals, but IMO the most beautiful snake on Mother Earth has to be the Gaboon Viper!

Maybe that's why I like the Maddy's so much. Kinda similar, no?

[shaunyboy]

Neuro issues: I do, to an extent, understand why people breed snakes that have the potential for neuro problems. The demand of most morphs that have these issues is HIGH and as a result the price and profit for creating them is high. As long as a snake with neuro problems is sold as such then I really don't see a problem with it. Furthermore, euthanizing a snake with extreme neuro issues should be done. The snake can then be fed to another snake that eats snakes (king cobra, king snake, etc.).

imo with the jaguar its not so much down to money being made,as jags are roughly only £150

it may have been when the morph first came out but not now

imo the jag gene gets used most for its colour and pattern mutation creating unusual and very good looking snakes (usually its high clean yellow colouring)

re feeding snakes to snakes
the black headed python will NOT eat euthinised snakes,they will only take live

granted its not as quick as euthinising a snake with one quick hard blow,causing full cranial destruction before the brain can register any kind of pain

but it is a natural way of eating for the bhp,so imo theres nothing morally wrong with it

it also clears up the dilemma of,what to do with below average looking unwanted carpets flooding the market.imo its got to the point theres that many,you can't give them away to find a home for them.breeding for me HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY...!!

for me its about creating high quality,wonderfull looking snakes or new combinations of them.

i'm pretty sure most folk keep their snakes because of how they look,also to study and watch behavoir patterns etc.but imo very few people keep snakes they find ugly,just to study their behavoiral patterns etc.

what i'm trying to say is,that alot of people are quick to shoot morph breeders down in flames,saying that this or that should not be done ,just to make pretty snakes.yet imo the first thing that draws someone to looking at,then keeping snakes,is how good the snake looks in the first place

so think of just how many thousands of jaguar related snakes were produced and are now being kept,that would NOT have been produced,had there not been a demand for them,so i preffer to think in terms of how many NEW lifes,will be created by the discovery of a new morph.

ALL THESE THOUSANDS OF SNAKES WOULD NEVER EXIST WITHOUT IT.....!!!

the only other answer would be to stop breeding morph's,imo that would be wrong,as we would never see the potential,the morph has for producing top class snakes,and furthering our knowledge on snake genetics

some people may disagree with me on ethical beliefs.but imo theres NOTHING unethical about feeding a snake its NATURAL prey,they are preditors after all

for the record
i feed all my snakes frozen thawed,but would feed live at a last resort,before assist or force feeding

i feel keeping a blackheaded python for unwanted hatclings is perfectly acceptable and natural

cheers shaun

[Rogue628]

Good points and well said.

[jaleely]

oh i'm not against morphs or people who want to make pretty snakes,i just don't like that it seems to have gone too far in a few cases. I don't like the waste.....but ...*SIGH* if you point out it's not a waste to feed the unwanted snakes to a snake eating snake, i guess there's the answer.
I'm not really against it. Though i though an "AWW" out there for the little doomed cuties! :( Aww :(

I really don't know if i could do it. I mean, i could feed ugly live lizards, and ugly frogs, and nasty mice (i couldn't do a live rat, i think, since i had those as pets as kid...and mice are just dirty stupid lil things lol)

but...but....it's like feeding unwanted puppies to a bigger dog! *lmao* i wike baby snakies!

It's totally one of those things i just really want to pretend i don't know about.

ah, well. See, here's the problem. I just LIKE snakes...so now i'm like "hmm black headed pythons sound COOL" *lmao* but i couldn't feed the snakes to it i think. i'm pretty hardcore with some things sometimes, but i dunno about this one! IT's way easier when the animal is already dead, or just ugly *lmao*

[exwizard]

I won't ever own a hot or a snake that doesn't like handling. My snakes are pets and not trophys or objects just to be looked at through glass. For those who like hots...thats fine just not my bag. I won't own a retic or anything huge. A 90-100lb snake is my max for sure.

This is my approach exactly with one exception. If a burm or retic has been handled frequently when little, they're not so bad when they get bigger but thats a big "IF".

Black Betty (http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showfull.php?photo=638) is probably as big as we're going to get since Laura rules out all giants as well.

[theapexgerman]

i like all snakes except anything gets over 9 foot not for me my girl would kill me she tolerates my coral snake

[BarelyBreathing]

I don't want a ball python. I had them, and they bored me out of my mind. Corns are pretty up there in snakes I don't want. I didn't used to want garters but then I saw a picture of Wayne's erythristic flame, and WOW! So let's take garters off the list of snakes I don't want. Hmmm.... I don't want all burm morphs except the green. I don't want most morphs of retics... I don't want carpet pythons unless it's a Bredli.... I can do without rosy boas.

[shaunyboy]

I don't want carpet pythons unless it's a Bredli.....


Nick Mutton of the usa has some great bredl bloodlines going on mate;)

cheers shaun

[BarelyBreathing]

Yeah. I know where I'm getting my pair. I was just offered them, but I had to have a new well dug, so I'm keeping my money in my pocket for a little while. It almost completely depleted my savings.

[UwabamiReptiles]

I think the only snake I wouldn't get would be an anaconda. Big, nasty, and attitude. Would just be a little much for me.

[aj099]

i am different actually i would prefer only bigger snake`s but i much prefer boa`s over python`s anyday nothin against python`s boa`s are just my thing

and i would not want to own anything small definetly no garter`s,corn`s,milk snake`s or
simliar snake`s i like them but i would not want to own anything under 8 foot
and i will be getting a conda this week!

[alessia55]

I also don't want milk snakes, rosy boas, sand boas... I'm going to make it easier by saying I'm only intrigued to have ball pythons and hogg island boas as of right now. I like pretty much all snakes, but I'd only be interested in keeping those two personally. I like lazier, chunkier snakes in general :p

[Ridge Runner_20]

I also don't want milk snakes, rosy boas, sand boas... I'm going to make it easier by saying I'm only intrigued to have ball pythons and hogg island boas as of right now. I like pretty much all snakes, but I'd only be interested in keeping those two personally. I like lazier, chunkier snakes in general :p

They ARE pretty awesome, aren't they? *tease, tease, tease* :p

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/ridge_runner20/112711_3248.jpg

RR_20 (Mike)

[stephanbakir]

I told myself I'd never own hots again... that went out the window because I have a short list I want to own. Staying away from anything Neurotoxic for allergy reasons though.

[alessia55]

They ARE pretty awesome, aren't they? *tease, tease, tease* :p

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/ridge_runner20/112711_3248.jpg

RR_20 (Mike)

YEAH, which reminds me... you should update that thread of yours with new pics ;)

[stephanbakir]

Shaun, not sure if you've tried this but with the king cobra we used to own, he refused dead too, and since he ate so rarely the only way to get enough into him was to feed a corn 2-3 mice then kill it and force feed a few more, we would put a live corn in his enclosure and the second feed response kicked in we would remove it and place the dead corn in his enclosure and wiggle it on hemostats, worked for us.

[Hurrok]

Myself, I'm fine with morphs, as long as they have not been inbred to the point of birth defects to obtain them.

Very much agreed. I've always been interested in morphs because they can seem so endless! And I have to say that there are some crazy colour mutations out there but I tend to be concerned about inbreeding and such for them to get to that point.

But, I will still be a fan of Normals and basic morphs such as the Spider BP :) So pretty!

[Ridge Runner_20]

YEAH, which reminds me... you should update that thread of yours with new pics ;)

I promise I will, but the girl just ate, so maybe I'll shoot for Monday to get a few good shots. Fed her in the enclosure for the first time today and it seemed to go very well. Looks like no more feeding tub for Pebbles! :)

RR_20 (Mike)

[Reptile_Reptile]

the only snakes i wouldn't ever want and and fake ones