Painfully Slow Grow Rate

[beardeds4life]

So my female bearded dragon (just found out she was a female about 15 minutes ago :P) grows very slow. I got her very small about a week old 6 months ago. She is only about 110 grams and her body is very small but her tail is very long (she is 13 inches). Also her poop is kinda watery sometimes but her diet is perfect. She is currently in a 20 gallon breeder but will soon be moved up to a giant temperature controlled viv. Since it is so big I am making it look very nice almost like a small zoo exhibit!:yes:

[Gungirl]

Look forward to seeing pictures of it all set up.. Hope your little girl likes it!

[beardeds4life]

:D me to it is going to be a few weeks before I finish it though with the holidays etc. I will upload pics of her later. It feels so weird calling her a she because it was just yesterday I realized she was big enough to sex. A while ago I sexed her but she was still a bit young. I was really happy she was a male. :( But now all I need is a male which are cheaper as adults. :P

[KORBIN5895]

Breeding brardies is not a very good idea. Bloody expensive to feed the babies.

[beardeds4life]

Ya I know I probably won't I was kinda joking. I might in a few years but not now.

[KORBIN5895]

Well I have seen you post before about people making their money back and I know you are toying with it. Also it needs to be over 2 years old or she could get egg bound.

[beardeds4life]

I am toying with leopard geckos. Which are must easier to breed and when did I say that people make their money back. I said I know I will probably LOSE money breeding LEOPARD GECKOS not bearded dragons so...

[beardeds4life]

and I was asking for help not criticism

[KORBIN5895]

First off sorry if you felt criticized but here is the definition to clarify what criticism is.

criticized
past participle, past tense of crit·i·cize (Verb) Verb:
1. Indicate the faults of (someone or something) in a disapproving way: "they criticized the failure of Western nations". 2. Form and express a judgment of (a literary or artistic work).

I was just pointing out facts to you. Also in another post you were telling gungirl that of she adopted the gravid female that she could make a website and sell the fast. So it implied that she would make money. Someone called you on it and you said something along the lines that she wouldn't make her money back but that how they could get rid of them all. This mixed with your idea to breed geckoos and coupled with you saying you needed a male is what I based my thoughts of you toying with breeding beardies.

[youngster]

Kevin was definitely not criticizing you. He was just helping by pointing out you can potentially kill your female if you are too eager.

[ZARADOZIA]

My Zed grows painfully slow too. He was the runt of the clutch and has remained the runt. Terra, from the same clutch, weighs 58 grams and Zed is 15 grams. (both 3 months old) I picked Zed because runts have the hardest time reaching maturity.

Zed eats 3-4 times daily, about .5 to 1cc. I monitor his intake closely to ensure he is gettnig the proper nutrients. He is my problem child. He has great coloring, lightening fast reflexes, and hyper. He is a handful. In the past week he has gained a gram and that is promising.

My husband, Sandie and I are seriously discussing opening a reptile specialty store/rescue because there isn't any here that specializes in reptile needs at affordable prices. There is a huge market for reptiles and reptile needs where I live, there are many breeders of pastels, geckos, retics etc, but without the must have's like Mercury Vapor bulbs, flexwatt, heat cable, live dubias, etc

We plan to start breeding next fall & open the store within the next 2-3 years. That will give my guys a full year to settle in and become use to their new enviroment and time for me to monitor their health and ensure everyone is on the up & up. Nova is my 2 yr old Hypo Sandfire, she was in brumation when I got her but I didn't want to breed her while she was moving into a new environment, it's just entirely too much stress and her health is paramount to me.

I have already spoke with the local breeders and one of our "Mom & Pop" pet stores. They specialize in cats and dogs only so we would not impede on their business. There is another M&P pet store that I do not like, their animals are in horrible conditions (IMO) and it looks like a lot of inbreeding on their reptiles, which I do not approve of. But we will be far enough away from them (45 min drive) that we shouldn't pose too much of a problem and maybe we will be good enough to pull their business. That M&P store has outragious prices, more expensive than PetSmart and Petco! And the woman does not have real knowledge of proper heating.

[KORBIN5895]

Honestly who cares if you take their business or not? Business is business. We have a free market for a reason. Open up right next door and you will be doing everyone including their animals a favour.

[ZARADOZIA]

Honestly who cares if you take their business or not? Business is business. We have a free market for a reason. Open up right next door and you will be doing everyone including their animals a favour.
Continueing this discussion to rants-
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/84515-non-forum-rants-if-makes-you-mad-sad-post-here-88.html#post660485

[beardeds4life]

Mine is definitely not the runt but good luck with yours. Mine's head is also very small. I have no idea what is up with her but she is healthy so that is all that I care about. You should definitely open up a store. And wow even more expensive than petco/petsmart? That is crazy. I think my dragon was inbred to but I don't have any way to contact the seller and I don't think that they even bred her so..... And I was stupid and didn't ask for a business card or her genes/blood lines. Also what do you guys think of housing 2 females together? Now that I have a female and I am 100% sure after she gets her huge cage would it be ok to get another female the same size? I have heard mixed opinions on this. I of course would quarantine her for a month to 2 months before putting her in with my girl. Another question what breeders do you guys buy from? I have heard good things of beardeddragons.co and they have great morphs and stuff.

[SpOoKy]

Also what do you guys think of housing 2 females together? Now that I have a female and I am 100% sure after she gets her huge cage would it be ok to get another female the same size? I have heard mixed opinions on this.

Do not house 2 beardies of any sex together. Beaded dragons are NOT communal lizards, they will fight or at the very least have aggression which in turn will cause stress or damage to the other lizard. Never a good idea. I beardie per tank.

[KORBIN5895]

I rescued 4 beardies and all four of the had lived together. All were missing toes and about 3 inches of tail. IMO it's is a terrible thing to do to the lizards.

[beardeds4life]

ok.....but i see so many people do it with no problem and many big breeders house females together with no problem it is going to be a 4x2x2 enclosure but the whole back wall will be covered with huge ledges and there will be multiple feeding sites and basking sites so does that make it any better?

[beardeds4life]

also how do I upload pics

[SpOoKy]

ok.....but i see so many people do it with no problem and many big breeders house females together with no problem it is going to be a 4x2x2 enclosure but the whole back wall will be covered with huge ledges and there will be multiple feeding sites and basking sites so does that make it any better?

No that does not make it better. Bearded dragons are solitary animals that need to be housed individually. Both my beardies are in their own 5ft long, 2ft wide and 3ft tall enclosures. These are large for beardies but still I would not put 2 in one.

Housing 2 together is asking for trouble.

[SpOoKy]

also how do I upload pics

click Go Advanced and scroll down to Manage Attachments

[Gungirl]

also how do I upload pics

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/83140-how-use-pictures-posts.html

[beardeds4life]

thanks and where do you guys rescue animals from?

[KORBIN5895]

People that don't take proper care of them.

[beardeds4life]

no really...

[SpOoKy]

no really...

...really, most of the time you get rescues off people who don't take care of them.

[KORBIN5895]

Serious that's why it's called rescuing. If it is healthy an hale than you are just purchasing another pet.

[beardeds4life]

i was being sarcastic

[beardeds4life]

http://http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=639&cat=500

As a 1 week old baby.:blink:

http://http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=640

6 months later... (in partial shed)

http://http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=641&cat=500

After greens her poop gets like this. Why is this?

[KORBIN5895]

i was being sarcastic

Whoops. Went right under my radar.

[beardeds4life]

:P are the pictures showing up for you?

[KORBIN5895]

Nope. They aren't.

[kernel]

They aren't for me either.

[ZARADOZIA]

http://http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=639&cat=500

As a 1 week old baby.:blink:

http://http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=640

6 months later... (in partial shed)

http://http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=641&cat=500

After greens her poop gets like this. Why is this?

Here, I fixed the line:

Diarrea After Greens? - My Photo Gallery (http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=641)

This is because they pee and poop at the same time. Looks normal to me.

Baby Beardie - My Photo Gallery (http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=639)

6 months later... (in partial shed) - My Photo Gallery (http://www.ssnakess.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=640)

You have a beautiful citrus! From what I can see he looks healthy. Nicely filled and no excess skin on the sides (skinny).

According to growth charts your dragon is at optimum weight. 6 months weight range is between 100 - 280, it varies just like in people. I wouldn't worry unless you see adverse affects, slow, super skinny, not eating, no bowel movements, etc.



P.S. Wayne, How do you link from member gallery? Everything I tried to fix the line didn't work...(Trying to set it as an image insert)

[kernel]

Vere beautiful citrus indeed!

[beardeds4life]

thank you but she is not a citrus she is a sandfire but i have never seen a sandfire with such good colors so i am thinking she has some other genes in her to I MIGHT breed her late next year because then she will be about 1 yyear and 10 months but I will ONLY do that if she is big and healthy and if i can afford to feed 100+ baby beardies and i know that they are hard to sell but i have a bunch of reptile stores that will buy anything thats healthy for the right price if worst comes to worst

[KORBIN5895]

Hmmmm............

[beardeds4life]

I of course would only do it if my female and male were ready and I had the space and the money to take care of 100+ baby beardies. I also of course would not be doing it for money.

[KORBIN5895]

Hmmmm. I see.

[beardeds4life]

i am considering switching her to sand because she never eats inside her cage and I think she is big enough so what do you guy think?

[ZARADOZIA]

i am considering switching her to sand because she never eats inside her cage and I think she is big enough so what do you guy think?


I don't like sand because they can easily eat it when they drop there food into it or when they run across their food dish, shuffling sand into the food.

My 2 newest dragons came from a lady that went through dragons like I do clothes. She told me stories of the dragons she had that died from impaction because they ate sand and she fed them lettuce. And she STILL kept the news ones in sand and fed them lettuce! The first thing I did when I got them home was remove the sand from their enclosure and toss out the "Bearded Dragon food" she bought for them.

The first bowel movement Jupiter had with me about broke my heart. It was hard, had sand in it (I could see it), whole meal worms & grasshopper legs, and it was partially stuck inside him. I watched him for 5 minutes try to evacuate the rest of it but he couldn't, so I put on a glove and grabbed the turd (sorry can't think of a better word) while he walked away. I did NOT pull or tug, I just held it because with the insect legs I was scared it may do damage coming out, so I let him control everything.

I have been thinking about placing a digging bin in the bottom of the cage we are building now, because they do love to dig, and the food will be kept on a platform away from the digging area. I am making the platform large enough so that if eating becomes a bit messy, it won't fall into the digging area. I am creating a mix of moss, plain sand, and regular dirt. I am toying with the idea of adding vermiculite.

The problem with sand comes from them getting it into their food and them ingesting it. In the wild they live in sandy areas and the veggies they eat are not covered in sand but grow above it. They obviously ingest some sand when they eat beetles but the beetles are not covered in it. So if you can still provide them with a place to dig and are able to keep their food safe from sand contamination, it is possible to have both.

I think the most important trick is to keep the digging area minimized so that the sand is not all over the enclosure. Placing the eating area away from the digging area and picking up any fallen food will eliminate this problem, but diligence is a must.

[Lankyrob]

Never had beardies but when we had our lizards we provided a corner of the cage with calcium sand (less risk of impaction when eaten as the bodey absorbs the calcium) and the rest had repti bark - we fed them on the bark, obviously sometimes the insects would run into the sand area but we never had an issue with them ingesting it.

[SpOoKy]

Impaction is a captive issue. It is mainly caused bt improper husbandry. If you provide proper basking sites with proper temps you shouldn't have any problems. I realize that some people still don't feel comfortable with it as a substrate but I have used sand/soil mix for both my beardies their whole lives and never had a problem with impaction ( i also do not bath my beardies and they have regular poos on their own)

[beardeds4life]

I MIGHT try it but I of course would watch her VERY closely and at the first sign of her getting impacted no more sand.

[SpOoKy]

Go to the hardware store and buy childrens WASHED play sand. It is not so dusty.

[beardeds4life]

Yeah, that is what I am doing. I like it because you can get so much of it for so little. I used it for my crabs to. Do you think it would be worth the extra time to sift it? I am also going to put in a a tile or piece of slate or cardboard or something over about half the cage so there will still be a place to eat food safely. She also is only ever fed outside her cage with live stuff and she is ridiculously neat when she eats salads and stuff. I am thinking she will be fine but I am still going to watch her VERY closely.

[ZARADOZIA]

Yeah, that is what I am doing. I like it because you can get so much of it for so little. I used it for my crabs to. Do you think it would be worth the extra time to sift it? I am also going to put in a a tile or piece of slate or cardboard or something over about half the cage so there will still be a place to eat food safely. She also is only ever fed outside her cage with live stuff and she is ridiculously neat when she eats salads and stuff. I am thinking she will be fine but I am still going to watch her VERY closely.

The play sand I bought doesn't require sifting although if you are refering to cutting back on the dust content, put it in a pillow case and then hose it. Pour it out on a flat surface to dry. I have a 10.00 kid pool that I use for this kind of thing. I have to rinse the spanish moss I have before I place it in Sasha's enclosure because it is dusty, plus spraying it is the easiest way to moisten it.

I have a separate bin I use too when feeding dubias and crickets. It makes it easier to ensure that there aren't any left in their enclosures. Veggie mix goes inside the enclosure but live food is done in a bin.

[ZARADOZIA]

FYI

I also found 160w self ballasted mercury vapor bulbs with a E26 base on ebay. (E26 is the U.S. Standard fixture size) for 9.71 plus 6.04 shipping with 0.05 shipping for each additional.

160W 160 watt Self-Ballasted Mercury Vapor Light Bulb | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/160W-160-watt-Self-Ballasted-Mercury-Vapor-Light-Bulb-/350059643407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51812e420f)

[beardeds4life]

Thanks but I am going to go with a strip u.v. because it will use a lot less energy and the way I want the enclosure it will be a lot more practical for me. I do not like buying used bulbs or ones off ebay because they could already be burned out so I will buy new I think. Yes, feeding in a feeding tub is much easier and the sand will not be a problem for me because half the enclosure will be a piece of slate but I don''t even thing they will have sand in their new enclosure. I think I am also going to build them an outdoor enclosure for during the summer because I live in southern california so during the summer it gets warmm eniugh to bask and I think that will benefit her greatly but what do you guys think about that?

[ZARADOZIA]

... I think I am also going to build them an outdoor enclosure for during the summer because I live in southern california so during the summer it gets warmm eniugh to bask and I think that will benefit her greatly but what do you guys think about that?

I think that would be great as long as nothing could get in and they couldn't get out.

[beardeds4life]

Ok, thanks. I am a bit worried just because I would hate for anything to happen to her. She would also only be out on very hot days (I'm hoping for a hot summer but I do live in southern california so that is very likely) and I will bring her in at night. After she gets used to it I might let her stay out some nights if they will be warm.

[SpOoKy]

She would also only be out on very hot days (I'm hoping for a hot summer but I do live in southern california so that is very likely) and I will bring her in at night.

Just be sure that if you do this there is a place in the enclosure that does not get any sun at all where she can go to cool off. Overheating can kill just as quick (maybe quicker) than under heating.

[beardeds4life]

the enclosure will be huge and next to a fence so it will have to be tall so there will be branches she will have to climb in order to bask. There will definitely be a place to cool down-if not i will make her one

[ZARADOZIA]

the enclosure will be huge and next to a fence so it will have to be tall so there will be branches she will have to climb in order to bask. There will definitely be a place to cool down-if not i will make her one


Outdoor enclosures should be mostly strong screen with hides and stuff to crawl on. If you make it solid, like wood or glass, it will retain entirely too much heat.

Here is a good example:
huUUafwm7-A

Rio Bravo Reptiles: Building Outdoor Enclosures (http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/howto_outdoor.htm)



Outdoor Bearded Dragon Enclosures (http://www.beardeddragons.co.za/care-sheet-bearded-dragon-outdoor-environment.htm)

[beardeds4life]

ya I know the base will be plywood and some 2x4 for supports and the rest screen

[beardeds4life]

mine will not be like that it will just be a huge screen enclosure except nicer and higher quality and stronger