View Full Version : New to fish and weighing my options..
So I am curious how much work would a 55 gal be? Do you change the water weekly? Can you tell Im a complete noob here? I also have an empty 30 gal so may start with that..
I love fish, growing up my mom had at least 5 tanks full of various kinds of fish.Ive personally only had bettas, goldfish(many deaths as well, to my shame), stuff like that in little ten gallons.But the work of cleaning a larger tank out is just daunting to me.Especially a large 55 gal.
When I start reading up on all the nitrates and ammonia levels and all, I get confused and give up.It just seems a bit over my head.We have very hard water here too, lots of mineral content, coats everything with that white stuff after awhile.
Right now I buy bottled water for our bettas from the petstore in another town, they have better water then ours.I couldnt do that for a larger tank.
So what about filters, there are so many kinds....Wow I get overwhelmed just thinking about it..Where does one start?
55g fresh waters are not hard to maintain. I do weekly water changes about %20 I have an ehiem 2217 on my 55 and a 2215 on my planted 30.
Personally I would start with yellow labs as they easy to maintain and they are more forgiving to mistakes.
30g
http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m517/jay0133/IMG_0886.jpg
http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m517/jay0133/IMG_0888.jpg
I can't find any pics of my 55G...
Sweet tank..I love that natural look you have going.If I could get something like that Id be very happy..Maybe I will start with the 30 gal.I dont know what yellow labs are aside from the dog..But those are neon tetras arent they.Ive always liked those.Are those all real plants too.Do you have to use a special light to get keep the plants growing?
I could probably do a 20 percent change weekly, doesnt sound so difficult.Do you ever change water completely?
If you have 30 gallon and hard water I suggest you look into African Rift Lake cichlids like the yellow labs mentioned above. They will love the hard water, are hardy, fairly docile, very common and extremely pretty. They also don't get so big as to be unmanageable in a 30 gallon tank. In short, perfect beginner fish. My strong suggestion would be to have a species tank of these for the first little while. If you start mixing cichlids willy nilly the carnage can be spectacular, especially in a small-ish tank. Think gladiators in the Colisseum. But the labs by themselves will be fairly peaceful once dominance is worked out.
Next thing is the nitrogen cycle. I'll explain it in its most basic form and then tell you how to manage it the easiest way.
You buy fish, feed them and then the fish poop. When the poop breaks down it creates ammonia. Ammonia is poison to fish but the good thing is pretty soon a batch of bacteria will grow and eat the ammonia.
Bad news is that the ammonia eating bacteria produce a waste product called nitrite. Nitrite is also poison to fish but again a different batch of bacteria will be along to eat it.
Slightly less bad news is that the nitrite eating bacteria produce a waste product that is harmful to fish too (seeing a pattern develop yet?). It's called nitrate. But once again a third different species of bacteria will come along to eat the nitrate. Luckily nitrates are not nearly as bad for fish as ammonia or nitrites so their levels can get a little higher before you have to do something about them.
Here's where water changes come along. No bacteria eat nitrates. The only way to directly take nitrates out of the water is by changing out the water in the tank. Some people do 20% weekly, some (like myself) do 50% bi-weekly. It really depends on how many fish you have and how much you feed them. Obviosly the more food in the front end, the more nitrate out the back end.
This process is what is called the Nitrogen cycle. So now the question becomes how do we start the nitrogen cycle. There are two basic schools of thought here.
First is to use fish to cycle your tank. Put a small number of fish (varies based on species, size etc.) in the tank, feed them and basically wait the cycle out. The problem is that the fish are exposed to ammonia, then nitrites both of which are poisonous to fish so the fish can be damaged. This can be controlled by doing water changes to dilute the toxins and keep them to survivable levels. Unfortunately the damage done by ammonia and nitrite can be permanent to the fish shortening their lifetime significantly. Another drawback to this method is that you have to add fish very slowly to the tank to avoid overloading the beneficial bacteria because obviously only enough bacteria grow to keep up with ammonia production so an increase of waste causes a lag in the bacteria's ability to keep up.
The second method is called the fishless cycle and this is what I really recommend. You buy pure ammonia (got mine at Ace Hardware) with no surfactants, smells or anything else added to it. You then measure and dose your tank to a certain level of ammonia and let nature take its course. You're substituting fish for ammonia, thus keeping from exposing fish to harmful toxins. Otherwise fishless cycle works exactly like the fish cycle with one important difference: You can put a whole load of fish in all at once at the end of a fishless cycle because the bacteria are in place to deal with the load. The downside is that you have to wait a month or so after setting the tank up before you can add fish.
I strongly recommend buying an API master test kit (about $23) to monitor your cycle with. You really can't get along without one to be honest. Well, you can but not and be at all aware of what's going on in your tank.
Whichever way you decide to cycle your new tank you can speed things along by "seeding" your tank with decorations or gravel or sand from an established tank. Hang a nylon hose filled with gravel right in front of the outlet of your filter. The bacteria will start the cycling process a lot quicker. You can get gravel from a friend with a tank or even a pet store if you ask nicely.
I'm assuming you're going with cichlids (yellow labs) here. If not the rock information that follows isn't necessarily the case.
I recommend the middle sized Emperor (not Penguin) power filter (or HOB for hang-on-back) but the middle one, not the smaller one even though the box will tell you it's for a tank bigger than your 30 gallon. More filtration is better, especially for cichlids.
Substrate. I prefer sand. You can buy a 50 pound bag of pool filter sand at a pool supply store for less than $10 versus what you'll pay for gravel at the pet store. Plus it looks a lot more natural. Additionally waste sits on top of the sand so you can sweep it up whereas with gravel it goes down into the gravel making it harder to clean up.
Rocks. Cichlids live in a heavily rocked shoreline therefore they like/need quite a bit of rocks to be happy. Whatever you do, when you set your tank up put the rocks in first, get them arranged how you like them and how they are stable and then add your sand. This is because cichlids dig and obviously if the rocks are on the sand and the fish dig the sane up....well the rocks will fall over. Despite what you may read there is no need to put anything down on the glass before your rocks. The glass is more than strong enough to hold whatever amount of rocks you can fit in there. Plus like I said the fish dig and if there's something down there you'll see it and it'll be ugly.
Heaters. They're all terrible IMO. I use Ebo/Jager heaters and (knock wood) haven't had a failure yet. It's important to get an underpowered heater because when heaters fail, they inevitably fail and stick on. If the heater is over-powered and sticks on it'll kill your fish. I had a two month old heater try to boil one of my tanks. I got saved by a fluke of touching the glass and noticing it was hot. Thermometers are a cheap and very worthwhile investment. The stick-on kind aren't that accurate but they're close enough to tell you if there's trouble.
Tops. Buy glass tops, not the plastic ones. It'll cut way down on evaporation and they just look better.
Lights. Fluorescent or LED. I use both and like them. LEDs are still expensive but nice.
That's all I can think of. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I'm happy to help.
Norm's spot on.
They are cardinal tetras, and yes real plants.
Here is a video of my cichlids. It's not current I split them up into 2 tanks (each 55g)
5WOB97u
Wow thanks for all the info.I am printing this off so I can use it for reference.I wont be doing anything till after christmas but cant wait to get started...Jay the video didnt work for some reason..I looked up the yellow labs online and they nice looking fish.I saw pretty nice tanks too..
One question if I want a planted tank, would I plant it all then cycle the tank?
Will Cichlids destroy a planted tank? I guess what I really want is a planted tank, the fish are secondary, an added bonus to round out the tank.
The other thing I was considering was a Vivarium.But I do want movement so a fish tank just makes more sense.
Pareeeee
01-12-12, 09:39 PM
I suggest Rainbowfish. They may be on the expensive side but they are really hardy and can live a long time! They are beautiful and not aggressive. They are compatible with a wide range of fish. They also thrive in my awful hard, rusty water.
I wouldn't suggest Cichlids for a beginner but that's just me. Cichlids also love to eat plants. There are a couple plant species out there you can use with them, but they like to dig plants up by the roots :/
Here are some varieties of rainbows:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3625/3466653973_f0f5185174_o.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/malomir/II.jpg
http://images03.olx.in/ui/13/39/91/1300258852_177863891_2-boesemani-rainbow-fish-home-breed-Mumbai.jpg
http://bubblesaquarium.com/images/Fish/Rainbowfish/Rainbowfish_RedRainbowfish.jpg
http://watershed3.tripod.com/M_lacustris-1.jpg
http://bubblesaquarium.com/images/Fish/Rainbowfish/Rainbowfish_LakeTeberaRainbowfish.jpg
Pareeeee
01-12-12, 09:41 PM
Also, here is my aquarium
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/zz-4.jpg
I set up a ten gallon with 4 platys.Its all I could get right now.Ive got 3 different plants and a snail...The stupid petstore sold me a crab too.That was a mistake after looking it up , it is in no way suitable for my tank.So Im pulling him out and my son is taking him.
I wanted shrimp but they didnt have any.
I want some wood in the tank but the lady said the Mopani wouldnt work.Any particular kind for the tank?
If I can keep these alive for a few months Im going to dive in and set up a 29 gal.I will look into the rainbows, thanks.
Thanks everyone.I will also look into the emperor filter for a 29.
The best thing to do is to start by having some fake plants and some basic fish like tetras just to get that biological establishment going, or else you will have a hell of a time with keeping your plants and less hardy fish. Wait a month to get some of the nicer aquatic species. Also make sure you have room for a Pleco (algae eater) in the future for when you have algae growing in there. I only recommend getting one as they can get fairly large and they can eat a lot! :P And btw, snails multiply like CRAZY :P
A good suggestion to NEVER forget is to always keep in mind is that you should only keep a certain amount of fish in an aquarium.
An example would be is lets say you have a 20 Gallon fish tank, only have 20 inches worth of fish. The reason I say is because of the ammonia levels can get to high if you have to many fish which is poisonous. Keep in mind of how big your fish may get too, as it can get crowded in the future and it can cause a problem. And make sure you don't get fish that will just eat up you plants, cause that sucks...trust me!
Another point is to find out where the fish or aquatic species like to "hang out", as it is good to spread the variety. Tetras are a mid-tank dweller mostly, bottom feeders are well.. bottom dwellers, and a few fish are top dwellers. You don't want all of your fish to be middle or bottom dwellers, it gets to crowded and causes stress on the fish.
I highly recommend Rainbows as well, there is a nice variety and they are flashy. Also Yoyo Loaches which are bottom feeders so they clean up the bottom where extra food may end up among other things. They are always active and are so cute :P Plus they do such a great job.
Just do your research with keeping certain species together, because it could be disaster, as some fish are extremely territorial and need larger tanks, while some need a totally different water type (such as brackish water). Try to tame the impulse buying and do your homework ;)
Best of luck! And don't worry it's not as complicated as it seems and it will all turn out! :) Look forward to pictures :D
Do you have an Undergravel filter system? (It's much better for plants)
I will keep in mind the undergravel filter, should I have both the Emporer filter and a under gravel?.This is just a starter tank.I want to get either my 20 or 29 gallon going too..I dont want any fish that get big, so no plecos, in fact its more about the tank being planted then the fish.So I dont want alot of fish, just a few that stay small and handle hard water.
I finally got 5 ghost shrimp the other day, pretty funny little guys and fiesty too.
I have 5 plants in the tank..2 large hornworts, a crypto lucens, a curly java fern and a regular java fern.And some fake plants too.
I still havent got my light, my friend keeps forgetting to bring it..Im using a reptile uvb tube for now.
BTW I was going to get the Seachem Flourish, anyone use this? It supposed to keep algae down and fertilize the plants.
"An example would be is lets say you have a 20 Gallon fish tank, only have 20 inches worth of fish."
This isn't really a good way to determine how many fish a given aquarium will support. I've read different "thumb rules" like this (a common one is square inches of footprint = inches in length of fish allowed). It depends on a number of things like adult size of the fish, how 'dirty' they are etc. But the message is the same, don't over-stock a tank.
I recommend highly against under-gravel filters. The whole tank needs to be torn down to clean them and if you don't they "store" waste and un-eaten food creating way more nitrates than you want.
I'm PM'ing you a link to a good planted tank site. They have a forum so I don't want to post it here and break our forum's rules.
Pareeeee
01-18-12, 05:00 PM
I recommend highly against under-gravel filters. The whole tank needs to be torn down to clean them and if you don't they "store" waste and un-eaten food creating way more nitrates than you want.
I would have to disagree since I've found under-gravel filters are excellent myself. I wouldn't think of having a tank without one. I've had one in my tank for probably 9 or 10 years. I never cleaned it, never had a problem.. Actually, I think it's partly why my plants grew like crazy. I've had exceptional health with my fish in the past - and I often overstock heavily. (no 'inch-per-gallon rule' for me, lol.) Overstocking is not recommended for beginner fish owners.
IMO the UGF must have a powerhead attached to it, NOT a bubbler. I think a bubbler is a huge mistake people make with these. Also, a UGF should not be the sole filter on the tank.
I also think that they work best along with live plants, because of the fact that there is some decayed matter under there that the powerhead does not cycle through, it then becomes fertilizer for the plants instead of just rot.
I agree that a UGF can be a good option as long as 1) it's used with a powerhead or two, 2) The tank is heavily planted to use up the nitrates they put off, and 3) the fish (over-stocked or not) aren't over-fed.
In short, I don't think they're a good idea for beginning aquarists. There's too many ways for them to go bad. It's my opinion that they're more trouble than they're worth. The best filtration IMO for a small tank is a good power-filter (HOB, backpack, whatever) and/or a canister. I use both.
If you've had a UGF running for 10 years I suggest if you were to look I'd almost guarantee there's a huge build-up of mulm (sludge) down there. The fact that your tanks are heavily planted is most likely what's keeping the system in good balance. It would be interesting to know your nitrate readings. I don't have any experience with planted tanks and it would be neat to see how much of the nitrates they utilize.
My most recently put up tank (125 gallon) has a under-gravel jet system and an FX-5. The UGJs blow waste off the sand and the FX-5 sucks it up. The sand keeps waste on top of it rather than letting it go down under and rot. It's the nearest to a perfect system I've ever had filter-wise.
Really, as long as the tanks are filtered properly one way or another it's all good. I just think that my way is better for a beginner. :)
millertime89
01-24-12, 03:29 PM
I need to look and see what kind of UGF I got with my latest tank. 20 bucks for a 55 with gravel, UGF, hood, and lights.
insignia100
02-12-12, 05:15 PM
I tried, and HATED, under gravel filters. However, on one tank I did use one long term, but with a twist. Instead of pulling water down through the gravel, I hooked the pump in reverse, and actually pushed water up through the gravel. The idea was that this would keep much of the waste suspended in the water column allowing it to be filtered out. I don't know if it really worked, but it was better than the normal way of using them.
I HIGHLY recommend using pool filter sand instead of aquarium gravel. Plus it looks better. The only downside is you need stir the sand occasionally.
Not a fan of undergravel filter for plants.Found the plant rooted in the plates and was a pain for tank cleaning.If you are going with cichlids.They really mess up it up.As the constant digging of most cichlids makes UGF work very poorly.The good ole aquaclear filters are hard to beat.As for the FX5..its AWESOME.
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