Not eating!? How soon after brumation to feed?!

[Pareeeee]

As I had mentioned in my other thread, Boaz was going through a one-month brumation to stimulate feeding.

Well, I think I made a mistake. I tried to feed him yesterday (the day after bringing him out of brumation) and he didn't eat. Well, this morning when taking him out of his feeding tub it actually looked like he tried to eat - some of the mouse's insides were hanging out it's bum like it had been squeezed, and the mouse looked maybe a bit darker and wetter. (maybe regurge?)

So maybe I misunderstood since NOWHERE on the internet could I find how soon to feed them after you bring them out.

Anyway, he hasn't eaten since October 22. How do I get him to eat!?!?!?

EDIT: I am feeding F/T, which is what he was used to eating.

[youngster]

A trick I used to get my corn to eat after I got her was to put her in a bin with nothing in it except the mouse and put a shirt over it.
She usually eats in 10 minutes if I do that but I would say don't do that longer than an hour because your snake may get stressed.

[Pareeeee]

Ok, thanks. I hear so many different opinions it's hard to know what will work on Boaz, some people say that you should put them in the bin over night, but I think you're right about maybe it stressed him and made him regurge.

PS: Here are the things I tried, before and after his brumation:

Before:

-Laying the mouse on a rock in his tank.
-Dangling the mouse with tweezers.
-Taking him out of the tank and offering it to him on the floor.
-Braining the mouse.
-Poking the mouse so it smelled like blood.
-Bumping it against his nose to make him annoyed with the mouse.

After:
-Putting Boaz in the tub with the mouse overnight.

Each time he becomes interested to the point I think he will strike, then it's as if he goes "Meh" and slithers away.

[shaunyboy]

did you go straight from brumation twemperatures to normal temperatures in a 24 hour period ?

imo its best to gradually increase the temps over a few weeks

after my diamonds cooling cycle,i up the temperatures gradually week by week,until at week 4 the tanks at normal temperatures

i feed on the 5th week

your snake may be in breeding mode hence the refusal to eat

i brumate my diamonds for 4 months of the year

only feeding 6 months of the year

cheers shaun

[Shmoges]

Have you been weighing the snake? Is he getting smaller? I have some snakes that are pains in the butt and after trying F/T first I then offer live and wham!! What kind of temp fluctuation did he go through? 60-80 over night?

I am doing the same thing you did with a hognose that is losing weight and not eating. I hope he lasts through the cold period I am exposing him too. My fault, I should have done it sooner.

[Pareeeee]

I don't have anything to weigh him with but he doesn't look skinny. I'm still new to snake keeping but I think maybe I tried to feed him too soon after brumation ended. Also, his scales look weird. He doesn't have blue eyes yet but I'm starting to wonder if he's in shed? how would I be able to tell otherwise? He is really active around maybe 5pm onward until I shut his light out. Also I am going to change his substrate from sand to this recycled paper mulch bedding stuff as I have been advised that even the reptisand isn't very good for them.

[KORBIN5895]

What kind of snake? And its only been 6weeks right?

[shaunyboy]

most ny snakes shed after coming out brumation,so your shedding theory may be correct mate

let us know how it goes

cheers shaun

[Pareeeee]

Thanks, hope it's just a shed. His eyes look kinda funny today like there's little (I don't know how else to describe it) 'wrinkles' but not quite like wrinkles though...it almost looks like he has a film on his eye.

Phew, I'm fairly new to snake keeping and this not-eating business is so stressful! They are so different from lizards. I'm used to keeping lizards.

Changed his bedding today, this stuff is a lot nicer. It is made from reclaimed cellulose fiber (also called reclaimed virgin wood pulp). Better than the recycled paper mulch bedding because it has no inks, dyes or chemicals.

ANYWAY, he explored the big soft chair in the room while I changed bedding, decided to take a quick video of him before putting him back. Could you take a look at his scales in the video? I think it's probably from a bad shed in the past but not sure. BTW, right now he is exploring like crazy and trying to burrow. I think he likes this bedding way more than the sand!

Boaz the Rosy Boa - YouTube (http://youtu.be/geGmggtVtVw)

[youngster]

The film/wrinkles is definitely trait of pre shed.
Those scales don't look too bad, maybe he got poked with something?
I can't see it too well, maybe someone can answer you better :p

[alessia55]

The scales your worried about look like pre-shed film/wrinkles as Eli said. I wouldn't worry about it... Let him shed and see if it's better after that :) He is very cute by the way!!

[Shmoges]

Honestly, it looks healthy and shiny. Active and curious as well. I don't think I got it from you so I will ask again what did/have you been feeding it? I just fed our smallest rosy a live pinky rat and he also happens to be the pickiest and most finicky rosy we have. Either I got lucky or he prefers live. How often do you offer water again? 1-3 days a week?

So I would suggest trying a live pinky rat in an isolation chamber with some room but not super cramped and cover it obviously and also cover the whole thing with a towel and leave the snake over night with it. I use a shoe box.
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af309/Shmoges/IMG_0027-1.jpg

[Pareeeee]

Is it safe to put a live pinky rat in with a snake overnight?? I heard that it's very dangerous to leave live rodents with snakes since the rodent may chew on the snake's skin? Anyway, he is on F/T mice so I'm afraid if I give him a rat he may get a preference to rats and become more fussy? I have been thinking of buying a live mouse to offer him if he fails to eat again.

Yes, water 1-3 days a week. Also, glad that you guys think that it's a shed! It's probably his whole problem!

He always feels cold even though he has belly heat of 80-85 degrees F.

Anyway, here is his feeding record from the store I got him from, and with my additions on Oct. 30.
Sept. 2/11: 1 adult f/t mouse
Sept. 9/11: Did not eat
Sept. 12/11: 1 adult live mouse
Sept. 23/11: 1 adult f/t mouse
Oct. 1, 2011: 1 adult f/t mouse
Oct. 8/11: 1 adult f/t mouse
Oct. 14/11: 1 adult f/t mouse
Oct. 22/11: 1 adult f/t mouse
Oct. 30/11: Did not eat
Nov. 3/11: Did not eat
Nov. 9/11: Did not eat
Nov. 15/11: Brumation begins
Dec. 12/11: Begin warmup/brumation end
Dec 13/11: Did not eat (probably tried too soon after warmup...)

[KORBIN5895]

Ummm nice box Shmoges?

[Pareeeee]

I have a medium sized black bucket with a lid that used to have protein shake powder in it. (of course I cleaned it)

[Shmoges]

Ummm nice box Shmoges?

LOL..............

The worst thing a pinky will do to a snake is keep it warm and mabye suck on it.

[Pareeeee]

So how long does it usually take them to shed once you see the signs I described

[Shmoges]

Mine seem to have a skin present for me in about a weeks time.

[millertime89]

if you want a decent little scale to keep track of weights, this one is cheap and accurate.
The Biggest Loser® Digital Kitchen Scale - Bed Bath & Beyond (http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=15947047)

[Pareeeee]

if you want a decent little scale to keep track of weights, this one is cheap and accurate.
The Biggest Loser® Digital Kitchen Scale - Bed Bath & Beyond (http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=15947047)

Cool. I'll probably get one of those Kitchen scales after Christmas. That way I can use it both for snake weighing and (after it's washed of course) for baking in the kitchen :P

[Pareeeee]

Well, tried feeding again tonight after waiting 8 days since the last attempted feeding. I put him in the feeding bucket, put the mouse in and closed the lid. I left him there fifteen minutes and all he was trying to do was get out. So I took the mouse, brained it and warmed it up again, then wiggled it around in front of him. He kept acting defensive, striking and missing, going into the S position and then false striking. Some strikes he would grab but then immediately spit out. Finally, he grabbed and coiled around it! I thought, YAY! He's gonna eat it. But nope, this is what he did...

Boaz Won't Eat! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn2MVt0qeNo&feature=youtube_gdata)

[millertime89]

try feeding in his viv, he might be stressed from being in a feeding tub.

[Pareeeee]

OK next I'm going to buy a live mouse and SUPERVISE them (I am aware of the dangers of live feeding). How soon should I try again with the live mouse?

[SpOoKy]

try feeding in his viv, he might be stressed from being in a feeding tub.

I agree

Also, when he moves away like in the video do you rush in and take it out? One of my boa's will strike, coil and hold then after a while he lets go and moves around. Almost like he is finding a comfortable position to start eating. It takes him about 30 min from strike to swallow. Also, you being right there could be freaking him out.

I would feed in the enclosure, cover the tank and walk away. Don't come back for an hour or so. don't even walk around the tank, your footsteps could be throwing him off.

IMO you should be ablt to get it to eat this way before you resort to live.

[Lankyrob]

Whatever you try wait a week before doing it - too many attempts at feeding will be more likely to stress the snake than get it to eat.

[Gungirl]

I wouldn't go to live prey yet. He seems much like my BP was for a while. My bp will only eat in his viv. He will strike and coil but if someone is watching he will then uncoil after about 10 min and slither away. If I walk away and leave him be he will gobble it up fast. Snakes are defenseless when eating so you watching him is most likely why he didn't eat.

[shaunyboy]

Well, tried feeding again tonight after waiting 8 days since the last attempted feeding. I put him in the feeding bucket, put the mouse in and closed the lid. I left him there fifteen minutes and all he was trying to do was get out. So I took the mouse, brained it and warmed it up again, then wiggled it around in front of him. He kept acting defensive, striking and missing, going into the S position and then false striking. Some strikes he would grab but then immediately spit out. Finally, he grabbed and coiled around it! I thought, YAY! He's gonna eat it. But nope, this is what he did...

Boaz Won't Eat! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn2MVt0qeNo&feature=youtube_gdata)

throwing mutipule strikes sound like defensive strikes

you brummated him so its most likely he's in breeding mode

imo,he won't eat until he comes out breeding mode

he looks nice and healthy in your videos

just watched the video,that looked like a feeding response and you may have spooked him by filming him ?

cheers shaun

[Shmoges]

I just took my hognose out of a semi hybernation and will offer him food this weekend but I don't expect him to take it

[shaunyboy]

after re reading your thread i remembered that.....

my youngest son had a kingsnake once that struck and missed,or struck and took it went through the motions,to make sure it was dead then he'd abandon it

he was always coming up to and in shed at the time,it was like he was partially blind and just wanted the threat (prey item) dead.

some of my snakes don't eat coming up to and into a shed,others eat right through the shed cycle

cheers shaun

[candyraver69]

I would try a rat pink/fuzzy instead of a live mouse because then it can't hurt him. What is he acting like? Is he very active? If he's super active, he might be in breeding mode, and like others said, not wanting to eat till he's over that.

[Pareeeee]

He was super active but now he is hiding on his cool side for the last couple days.

[Pareeeee]

Still not eating. Still hasn't shed. Still worried. PS: I've warmed up his cool side a bit to see if that helps. I think the temp may have been too low on the cool side.

[shaunyboy]

imo,if the temps were too low on the cool side,he would have just went up the hot side

watch you don't make his tank too hot

its much quicker to kill a snake with heat,than it is with cold

he may be a nervous snake and just needs left alone except for water changing

i had a carpet python hatchling,that i only went near once per week to change its water,quietly and quickly.

it took 10 month to get her feeding,she has never missed a feed since

cheers shaun

[Pareeeee]

No, the temps in there before were around 69-70F which is the normal temp in our apartment this time of year. I've increased it to 75 which a lot of caresheets reccommend. The warm side is still around 85.

I'm pretty sure he's not nervous of me because he actually comes toward and tries to climb up onto my hands when I put them in the tank. He acts like, 'ooh, new climby things! yay!'...maybe he's strange...but he always acts very very calm around me and loves to look and explore every nook and cranny he can find. It's the mouse he acts all annoyed and skittish with.... o_O

Could there be any other common sights/smells etc. that could also frighten a snake? Only other pets in the house are fish and a crested gecko. We re-arranged the apartment so now the room he is in is very kow-traffic. It was a medium-traffic area before. He is just now starting to look a little bit thinner. Going to borrow my parent's weigh scale tomorrow and weigh him.

thanks again everyone for all your help and opinions. Hope he will eat soon. He hasn't had food in his belly since October... :(

[shaunyboy]

october till now sounds like it could be possibly a breeding mode thing

from october to march or even april i've heard snakes go off their food,to the point they lose a little wieght,due to looking for a breeding oppourtunity

if his cool end was that cold,again this could bring on a breeding response

i hope he eats soon

can you post recent pictures and people will give you their opinions on how he looks

snakes can slow their metabilsms down and go without food for months with no ill effect

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

Have you tried rat pinks? If he is skittish of mice try rat.

[Pareeeee]

Have you tried rat pinks? If he is skittish of mice try rat.

Rat pinks...? I've heard a lot of people say when they make a change from mice to rats their snakes won't go back to mice again... :/

Adult mice and adult rats are mostly what you can get around here where I live.

I will try to take some photos today or tomorrow.

PS: He still has funny crinkle/scuff mark type things on his eyes...

I've been so worried about him I actually had a dream last night he shed and then ate...

[KORBIN5895]

Wait this is a rosy boa right?

[Pareeeee]

Here are some pics I took yesterday. He is currently 28 inches long. I think some of the pictures he looks thicker than he actually is.

Here he is (my hand for size comparison, I wear women's medium size gloves if that helps!?)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/IMG_6828Small.jpg

Notice the marks on the scales on his back.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/IMG_6817Small.jpg

'Wrinkles' on his scales?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/IMG_6834.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/IMG_6813Small.jpg

You can see the eye marks in this pic
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/zz-6.jpg

Size comparison on my hand. Notice the funny marks on the scales on his back where the top layer of skin is separating from his scales.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/IMG_6843Small.jpg

Good image to see the marks on his eyecap.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/z-6.jpg

It was hard to take pictures because he was fascinated with the camera and I ended up getting blurry close-ups of his face.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/IMG_6824Small.jpg

[Pareeeee]

his enclosure
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/IMG_6810Small.jpg

[KORBIN5895]

Sorry but my rat idea was terrible. He will never be eating rats! I thought it was a bci and thought maybe they had fed him rats. It looks like stuck eye caps to me.

[ZARADOZIA]

Usually the crinkle look on scales is caused by humidity being to low. Double check that. Same goes for the way his eye looks. Balls are notorious for that issue if the humidity isn't kept at a constant. Might want to invest in a new humidity gauge

[Pareeeee]

Again, this is a ROSY boa and they have to have very low humidity or they get respiratory infections. They are desert snakes. He has a water dish and drinks periodically.

Current humidity is 35%, I've heard 30% is best for them though?

[millertime89]

maybe give him a humid hide and see if he uses it? I think he looks awesome btw.

[ZARADOZIA]

Again, this is a ROSY boa and they have to have very low humidity or they get respiratory infections. They are desert snakes. He has a water dish and drinks periodically.

Current humidity is 35%, I've heard 30% is best for them though?

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just stating what I have experienced with crinkled scales. That's why I mentioned a new humidity gauge, maybe it is actually lower than what it is displaying? Just a thought dear. :)

[Pareeeee]

he now has access to a water dish at all times instead of three days a week.

I gave him two baths in the past week to help his scales and eyes. The scales have not changed.

Several careshets say that they should only have water dish for about three days because even that tiny bit of humidity can be too much, other caresheets conflict this statement, saying that the only reason they would get an RI from that is if the dish was large, under a heat source or accidentally spilled on the substrate.

[KORBIN5895]

Put a water filled Tupperware container with small hole in the lid for it to get in and out of. Someone on here does that.... I think.

[shaunyboy]

if your trying to hydrate your snake i'll pm you a link as to imo the best way to do it

cheers shaun

[millertime89]

Put a water filled Tupperware container with small hole in the lid for it to get in and out of. Someone on here does that.... I think.

I've seen it done, seems to work.

[Pareeeee]

shaunyboy - thanks for the PM. I viewed the images of the dehydrated snake and he definitely does not have the "tenting" that is apparently a telltale sign of dehydration. I will try the electrolyte thing soon.

Boaz absolutely HATES the bath. It stresses him too much, so I will not be doing baths anymore, I'm going to try warm cloths to wipe down his body whilst handling him and see if that bothers him... He HATES water. He will not voluntarily go into it even if it's shallow (must be a desert-dweller thing)

I'm just really worried about leaving him for extended periods of time in a humid environment because it is apparently crucial to keep humidity low to prevent rosy from having respiratory tract infections.

PS: He has a water dish at all times and I have seen him drinking from time to time.

Also, I have attempted a live mouse which he killed and 'threw away', also tried a small fuzzy mouse too. He wanted neither.

Question: I have been looking up reptile appetite stimulants or electrolyte+protein+vitamin supplements for malnourished snakes. Any of you know about these? Are either of them any good? Should I look into buying one?

[Pareeeee]

Ok. I've ordered some rat pups to see if he will go for them. Wish me luck. They should come into my local pet store this week.

I have given him two soaks over the past week in a wet pillowcase. He doesn't mind that nearly as much as the bath. His scales look beautiful after being in the pillowcase for an hour.

Also , no one answered me about the appetite stimulant or electrolyte supplement question. Is that a good or bad idea? I don't want to do it unless you guys think it's ok.

[Gungirl]

[QUOTE=Pareeeee;669330

Also , no one answered me about the appetite stimulant or electrolyte supplement question. Is that a good or bad idea? I don't want to do it unless you guys think it's ok.[/QUOTE]

IMO I would say anything unnatural isn't worth the risk..

[Pareeeee]

IMO I would say anything unnatural isn't worth the risk..

k good to know