Help me design my enclosure please

[Norm66]

I'm planning a 3 level enclosure (two 4'x2'x1 1/2' and one 4'x2'x1') to house my jungle carpet python, my future snake (thinking maybe a Brazilian Rainbow Boa) and my wife's ball python (is 4'x2'x1' too big for a male BP to feel secure?).

It will stand about 6' or maybe 6'-6" tall depending on how big I make the cabinet below. I imagine 3/4" plywood will be the way to go so it doesn't sag anywhere though I'll ask my cabinet making friend for sure. I'll also put casters on it because it seems like a great idea to be able to slide it around to sweep etc.

I'm thinking of going with radiant heat panels for heat and making relatively naturalistic looking enclosures since they'll be in my living room.

I've got a couple questions about the design.

First, where and how large of vents do I need? It'll have to look good on the outside as well as be secure on the inside so I'm not sure how to go about it. Could I simply drill some smaller holes in a nice neat pattern? How big and how many?

Next, what are the pros & cons of different materials and different colors for the insides of snake enclosures? Obviously water proof is a necessity so I was thinking either painting and sealing with caulk & some sort of reptile friendly polyurethane or similar but I also thought about the stuff they make kitchen backsplashes out of. Is color just personal preference? Cleanliness? White might be easier to spot dirt but black would hide it better?

And lastly, for now, what about doors? Two doors vs. one? Open down vs. out? Sliding vs. hinged? Glass vs. Plexi/Lexan/Acrylic? What works best for you? I don't have kids and rarely have kids visit so locks aren't necessary but they would obviously have to be secure.

I'm sure I'll have some more questions as I progress but I've still got a while before I'm ready to begin construction.

Thanks.

[millertime89]

vents: Low on the warm side high on the cool side I think, it might be the other way around, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, either that or on the same level. You can find some decent looking plastic vents at various places, the other option is secure some plastic screen mesh to the outside then frame it with some wood so the snake can't push it out.
You'll need to seal the wood and let it air out for about a week to keep it from molding. You can get some safe-for-animals silicone aquarium sealer for the edges from most any hardware store. DAP is one brand I see, but I bought something else from Menards, can't remember the name.
edit: permatex

[spots]

I would say that the 4x2x1 is a good size for your ball. i have mine in a 4x2x2, with a extra foot above to house lighting. and he is quite happy. what are you planing on making you vivs out of? I used 2 good side plywood and clear coated the inside with water base polyurethane to make it moister proof. i have 1 1" vent in my viv. ( the 2 big hole you see in the back i have covered with plexi) I have built a few of these vivs for friends for everything from beardies, to snakes.
If you have questions feel free to pm me and i'll help you the best that i can.
I know i have posted this pic in other threads but heres for you Norm

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/IMG_8843.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii396/Jlangan1/IMG_8846.jpg

[millertime89]

doors: one front opening door with the hinge on the bottom and a locking latch on the top (preferably two so the snake can't push outwards or framed in wood so its solid, but 2 will be best)
Materials is all about what YOU want. If I ever build a display viv it will be made out of a nicer wood with a plexi front door. A very strong snake strike has been known to break glass.

[Norm66]

Thanks Kyle!

Jimi, that is one really nice enclosure you have there. I like the natural wood interior, for some dumb reason that hadn't ocurred to me.

I'm planning to use plywood. I'm familiar with aquarium sealant, would it go on first or after the clear-coat?

Another thing I forgot is about lighting. I was picturing fluorescent lights like they make for under counters but I wonder if the high humidity will just kill them quickly. They're not expensive but I wouldn't want to have to replace them three times a year. Hmmmm....

[spots]

clear coat then silicone. if you put clear coat on the chalking it will flake off. I have been using florescent light in my vivs for a long time with nor problems. i just replace bulbs every year as recommended for the uvb. like i said Norm pm me if you have any questions.
O and by the way off topic here, but the glass tanks you have your snakes in now are fine. Like you are doing just keep checking that everything is where you want it to be.

[Gungirl]

This is what I did. You can see all the pics so far in the thread below...I really need to get the hubby to finish up the other one asap!
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/enclosure-reptile-room-showcase/88383-building-another-1-thought-i-would-share.html

[red ink]

JCPs do better in arboreal set ups IMO, I have mine in a 3 foot high enclosure...

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn214/Red-Ink-Buldogs/Greyham/1e906b1c.jpg

[Norm66]

OK, thanks for the input everybody. Believe me, I will take all your advice to heart.

On vents, high on the cool side and vice versa makes sense to me. It would let the heat build up rather than escape out the vents while pulling fresh air in from the cool side. On the other hand, I notice Kat's vents are all along the rear and down fairly low while Jimi only has the one 1" vent. Hmmm.... I'll have to think about it and maybe consult an HVAC guy here at work.

For sealing, I like Kat's idea of two-part epoxy on the floor since that'll obviously receive the worst of the water. I'm not familiar with the whey based clear coat she mentioned, but I can research it.

Doors, I've never heard of a snake strike breaking glass but I see how it could happen I suppose. Plus plexi or Lexan would be a lot lighter, but I worry about scratches. Also I notice that Kat switched her 2nd cage to a 2-door design. What are the thoughts there Kat?

Red Ink, how big is the carpet in that picture? I've read cage sizes for carpets anywhere from 36" x 18" x 18" up to 6'x2'x3'. I've also read that as they get older they use the perches less and less. I can only go by mine but he spends upwards of 98% of the time on his perch. I might be able to go 2' high, but any taller and it'll be to big to get three cages high.

Now let's talk heating. I was thinking radiant heat panels, but I see that Kat uses Flexwatt on one side w/ RHPs in the middle. What is the general thought on heating cages this big? I can see where a 2' high cage might need belly heat in addition to a belly heat source or at least the bottom one might because I assume the heat from the RHP will heat the floor somewhat in the cage above it.

And finally (for now) what about lighting? I love the LED light ropes in Kat's 2nd cage in her linked thread. I actually have some already I'd just have to get end kits & cords etc. I assume they're rated for outdoor use so would probably do better than just putting an under-counter fluorescent fixture in.

Again, I appreciate everybody taking the time to help me work this out. I want to get as much right the first time through this exercise as possible both for the snakes' sake and so I don't have to re-do a bunch of stuff to get it right.

[millertime89]

its mostly big snakes that break glass, stories abound on the retic boards, better safe than sorry IMO. Lexan or plexi will be cheaper and easier to replace when they do get scuffed up anyways

[Gungirl]

Glad I was able to offer you some Idea's. As far as the doors go, I decided I wanted to offer more support in the center of the viv to allow me to stack them without worry of them giving at all. I want to stack 3 high so thats a fair amount of weight.
I did my vents all along the back down 6" from the top. This was to allow air flow and I could tape off extra vents if It was getting to chilli and open them more so in the summer when it is hotter out.
On the heat... I went with just flex watt when it was built then after I got it set up we realized we needed more ambient heat so we added the RHP. In the next viv we are building we are skipping the flexwatt and only using the RHP.
The first viv is for my BP and the second is for our Boa.
Soon I will be posting more pics in that thread of the tall viv we are building for our GTP along the same Idea but a little different.
As far as the sealer goes.. anything water base and do 3-5 coats. The 2 part epoxy is the best for the base.. I love it when its time to clean!

[red ink]

Red Ink, how big is the carpet in that picture? I've read cage sizes for carpets anywhere from 36" x 18" x 18" up to 6'x2'x3'. I've also read that as they get older they use the perches less and less. I can only go by mine but he spends upwards of 98% of the time on his perch. I might be able to go 2' high, but any taller and it'll be to big to get three cages high.

Mate... the JCP in the pic is nearly 5 foot (probably bout 4.5). There's lots of ways to keep them. Some people make do eith tubs, it's all up to you really. But in my opinion though carpet husbandry is pretty standard accross the board with all sub-species (except for M. spilota spilota), their behaviour is not. I've tailored the enclosure suit the semi-arboreal nature of JCPs but that does'nt mean they can't thrive in a shorter enclosure. Being a JCP mine actually never spends time on the substrate... it's always on the perch assuming the ambush position. The only time it goes on the substrate is when I put it into prolong periods of now food. then it starts to move around.

I believe that behaviour would be different to say an inland or a coastal where trees are more sparse in their endemic habitat.


Now let's talk heating. I was thinking radiant heat panels, but I see that Kat uses Flexwatt on one side w/ RHPs in the middle. What is the general thought on heating cages this big? I can see where a 2' high cage might need belly heat in addition to a belly heat source or at least the bottom one might because I assume the heat from the RHP will heat the floor somewhat in the cage above it.

My enclosure is heated with a 75 watt CHE... 35C at the basking spot (the spot it is at in that pic) and 23C at the enclosure floor. The gradient also moves left to right in that pic with a varriance of 35C at the basking spot to 27C to the right. I have a fluro tube in there providing a photo period and a wall mounted analougue thermostat controlling the CHE via air temps.

Again, I appreciate everybody taking the time to help me work this out. I want to get as much right the first time through this exercise as possible both for the snakes' sake and so I don't have to re-do a bunch of stuff to get it right.

Hope that helps....

[Norm66]

Thanks a lot for the input. I've been thinking about this and I'm really starting to wonder if it wouldn't be easier and in the long run, cheaper just to buy cages. Honestly, I don't have the tools or the working space to make the long cuts I'd need for the major panels much less the knowhow to keep things square etc. Oh, I could knock them together, but I'm not sure they'd be 100% sturdy like they'd need to be. I built my own aquarium stands, but that was out of 2x4s and even my limited skills are up to the task of cutting 3 1/2" straight with a circular saw. ;^)

That leaves me with having somebody build me the boxes and finishing them myself which, by the time I buy materials, set it all up in my living room (did I mention I live in a small house?) and all I'm thinking more about just bying Boaphile, Vision or Animal Plastic cages and being done with it. They might not look as good as some of your custom-built enclosures but I think they might be better for me.

Still thinking. I can't pull the trigger on anything until January so I've still got some time. I'm going to talk to my cabinet builder friend tomorrow and see what he says.

[Gungirl]

I would have purchased cages if we didn't have all the tools in the basement and the love to build. I really enjoy seeing the finished product of something the hubby and I built with our own hands. I am also very partial to vivs that look like a nice piece of furniture and not a plastic box. Either way you go just make sure they are the best thing you can do for the snake.

[spots]

Your cabinet building friend will be able to help alot for the build of your viv. it's the same as building a cabinet :)

[Edmond Y]

This two links show some DIY cage, can give some good idea.

Who says you can't keep Chondros in Tubs...GTPfan Style! in Morelia Viridis Forum Forum (http://moreliaviridis.yuku.com/topic/18054/Who-says-you-can-t-keep-Chondros-in-Tubs-GTPfan-Style)
Who says you can't keep Chondros in Tubs...GTPfan Style! in Morelia Viridis Forum Forum (http://moreliaviridis.yuku.com/topic/18054/Who-says-you-can-t-keep-Chondros-in-Tubs-GTPfan-Style)

Edmond

[It'sKourtneyYo]

I really like that idea Edmond. I actually have 2 tubs like that. Do you think it would be possible to put 2 together to house a ATB ? I want to build an enclosure for mine and I'm looking for ideas. Simple ones though preferably. I thought about making and old entertainment center into one but seems really complex to me. lol I've never actually "built" anything for something ever. I've only bui;t something with clay and play-doh [ I actually made a cobra once :D]

[Edmond Y]

if you use 45 gal Sterilite for your atb, you really need one is big enough, I did have a smaller size for my green tree, by the time he grow adult, I will use the 45 gal as well.

Sterilite - 1948: 45 Gallon Wheeled Latch Tote (http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProduct.html?id=401&ProductCategory=182&section=6)

Edmond

[It'sKourtneyYo]

Sweet, I'm not sure what size I have but they are the same but I'll look into it and if they are too small I'll just buy a bigger one or 2 because I like the way they look and they look pretty simple.

[Norm66]

I feel like a teenager again I've been changing my mind so often. Well, let's be adults and call it 'weighing options'. ;^) I keep going back to the fact that I'd be building/buying a big display cage for a snake who rarely leaves his hides (except to go from one to the other or eat).

Now I'm considering building or buying a 2 tub wide x 3-4 tub high rack system on bottom to house the BP and any future additions with a bigger enclosure on top for my carpet. It'll be a lot more efficient that way. I'm going to hit Wal Mart this weekend and check measurements on some tubs and see what I can come up with as far as flexibility for different sized tubs for different sized snakes that will be interchangeable as they grow and need larger tubs. I've read 41 qt. tubs are big enough for female ball pythons and most adult colubrids so I'll probably start there.

Still in the early brainstorming phase so don't be surprised if I change my mind again, but this is where I'm at now.